Guild Wars 2

Regarding the pet damage, it’s also very important to note where people were complaining from , almost all the complaints came from

—> sPvP/tPvP

PvP is a game style that promotes having to eat pet damage as almost 100% of the rangers were back point bunker holders. This playstyle in it’s very right FORCES you to eat pet damage. This necessarily doesn’t make the pet better it just means you’re forced to a playstyle that promotes having to care about the pet which people are complaining about… Nerfing the pet damage won’t work and compensating 14% damage on CC abilities won’t work towards opening new builds for the ranger. There’s not one thing in those notes that opens up a build for anybody in PvP that will provide a viable alternative because if you want to deal damage, you go mesmer or engi. Now, I’m not saying those BM builds still won’t work, we’ll have to see but I think the pet nerf was DEFINITELY warranted in PvP but the issue is there was nothing provided to assist in opening up new builds IN PvP…

Now onto WvW/PvE…

Since these are most likely across the board nerfs, now 2 other complete areas of the game for rangers are seeing massive nerfs based on the complaints from one area that’s completely different from those other 2 areas both in equipment AND style of play.

I think this is a huge point to make, while I’m not heavily affected by these pet nerf damage changes, I can see why people who WvW and people who PvE are upset about this.

WvW is a playstyle that prides mobility and roaming, 2 of which the pet AI simply does NOT bode well against at all. It’s effectiveness is cut in half simply based on this in WvW as people don’t need to sit on a point and contest AND fight you at the same time , they can move around quite freely and people can easily snare a pet and gap close you, which is what is done regularly in duels I play in and since EB transfers to your pet, most soft CC’s also make your pet virtually ineffective against good mobile classes.

PvE pets were just fodder to begin with and now with these nerfs, lol , I don’t think they’re even worth taking out and using effectively.

Just my 2 cents

I’m not really affected by this stuff personally, but I can see why people can be, especially WvW’ers and PvE’ers for sure.

Blaine Tog.8304:

Yeah, it kinda sucks. But on the other hand, I was baffled that this change wasn’t in there from release. It made not a whole lot of sense for Shortbows and Longbows to have the same ranges.

Technically longbows can have 1,500 range, so longbows and shortbows didn’t have the same range, at least not when a ranger committed to the longbow.

If it is true …

“Warrior

Final Thrust: This skill has been moved to slot #3. Now does more damage and extra damage vs foes below 50%.
Hamstring: This skill has been moved to the end of the skill chain. Cripple reduced to 1s.
Savage Leap: This skill now applies 3s of cripple.
Riposte: If you block an attack from range, it no longer cancels the blocking.

Bolas: Reduced the aftercast by .3 seconds.

Mending: 25s->20s

Untraited Longbow range updated to 1000 from 900.

Cleansing Ire: New Master tier trait with the following effects. Gain adrenaline when hit. Remove a condition for every bar of adrenaline spent.

Warrior’s Sprint: Movement speed has been increased from 10% to 25%.

Burning Arrows: This trait now reduces the recharge of longbow abilities by 20% in addition to dealing 10% bonus damage against burning foes."

Time to play a Condition Damage Warrior again.

Meglobob.8620:

All leaks 100% confirmed true by Anet themselves…

Uh, source? Because so far Anet has said absolutely NOTHING about it on these forums.

Granted that doesn’t mean it -isn’t- confirmed cough cough ZHAITAN FIGHT cough cough

“Dual Strike: Aftercast Reduced from .5s to .25s.
Whirling Axe: Increased damage by 50%.”

My first character (who I deleted to transfer servers for free, so now I just have my Ranger) was a Sword/Axe + Longbow Warrior. This is looking verrrrry appealing…

Anet`s silence on this makes think they are real and intentionally “leaked” … purely my opinion though.

Pendleton.6385:

Anet`s silence on this makes think they are real and intentionally “leaked” … purely my opinion though.

It really wouldnt be that bad of a move on their part, honestly.

These are obviously some pretty big changes, and if they unofficially leak it, they get a free opportunity to gauge players reactions without actually committing to anything.

jcbroe.4329:

However, with these patch notes, the shortbow is now relegated to competing with the Axe, which makes more sense, as one is a pressure condition weapon (shortbow) and the other is a spike condition weapon (axe).

How I see it shortbow is not supposed to competing with the longbow or the axe. It’s supposed to bridge the gap between the two. Axe range should be 900, Shortbow should be 1,200, and longbow should be 1,500. At the very least, if they’re going to nerf shortbow range, then they need to add a trait to increase the range back to 1,200 like how the longbow has the range trait.

DeathPanel.8362:

Forzani.2584:

My prediction ? The top players will still dominate. As Clint says, adapt, improvise, overcome.

The top players will still dominate… as another class.

No, as Rangers. Like so many already do now.

It’s funny how that works. When faced with changes, the legitimate gamer looks at it as a challenge. To break down the changes and search for the best way to succeed. The forum warriors who complain 24/7 ? Change = another opportunity to complain.

Ryan.8367:

Regarding the pet damage, it’s also very important to note where people were complaining from , almost all the complaints came from

—> sPvP/tPvP

PvP is a game style that promotes having to eat pet damage as almost 100% of the rangers were back point bunker holders. This playstyle in it’s very right FORCES you to eat pet damage. This necessarily doesn’t make the pet better it just means you’re forced to a playstyle that promotes having to care about the pet which people are complaining about… Nerfing the pet damage won’t work and compensating 14% damage on CC abilities won’t work towards opening new builds for the ranger. There’s not one thing in those notes that opens up a build for anybody in PvP that will provide a viable alternative because if you want to deal damage, you go mesmer or engi. Now, I’m not saying those BM builds still won’t work, we’ll have to see but I think the pet nerf was DEFINITELY warranted in PvP but the issue is there was nothing provided to assist in opening up new builds IN PvP…

Now onto WvW/PvE…

Since these are most likely across the board nerfs, now 2 other complete areas of the game for rangers are seeing massive nerfs based on the complaints from one area that’s completely different from those other 2 areas both in equipment AND style of play.

I think this is a huge point to make, while I’m not heavily affected by these pet nerf damage changes, I can see why people who WvW and people who PvE are upset about this.

WvW is a playstyle that prides mobility and roaming, 2 of which the pet AI simply does NOT bode well against at all. It’s effectiveness is cut in half simply based on this in WvW as people don’t need to sit on a point and contest AND fight you at the same time , they can move around quite freely and people can easily snare a pet and gap close you, which is what is done regularly in duels I play in and since EB transfers to your pet, most soft CC’s also make your pet virtually ineffective against good mobile classes.

PvE pets were just fodder to begin with and now with these nerfs, lol , I don’t think they’re even worth taking out and using effectively.

Just my 2 cents

I’m not really affected by this stuff personally, but I can see why people can be, especially WvW’ers and PvE’ers for sure.

Great post. You are 100% about the differences between pvp and wvw. That’s why most believe that the game needs to be balanced differently between game modes (pvp/wvw/pve/dungeon)

Pendleton.6385:

Anet`s silence on this makes think they are real and intentionally “leaked” … purely my opinion though.

I agree. It has been a tried and true tactic for many many years.

Tuluum.9638:

Pendleton.6385:

Anet`s silence on this makes think they are real and intentionally “leaked” … purely my opinion though.

It really wouldnt be that bad of a move on their part, honestly.

These are obviously some pretty big changes, and if they unofficially leak it, they get a free opportunity to gauge players reactions without actually committing to anything.

lol as if they actually gave a crap. This is Anet, not CCP…

Tuluum.9638:

Pendleton.6385:

Anet`s silence on this makes think they are real and intentionally “leaked” … purely my opinion though.

It really wouldnt be that bad of a move on their part, honestly.

These are obviously some pretty big changes, and if they unofficially leak it, they get a free opportunity to gauge players reactions without actually committing to anything.

It was incredibly obvious how players would react to it. They’ll be pleased at the buffs to their characters and angry at the nerfs. That’s what you see in every class forum right now.

zTales.4392:

If it _is_ true ...

"*Warrior*

Final Thrust: This skill has been moved to slot #3. Now does more damage and extra damage vs foes below 50%.
Hamstring: This skill has been moved to the end of the skill chain. Cripple reduced to 1s.
Savage Leap: This skill now applies 3s of cripple.
Riposte: If you block an attack from range, it no longer cancels the blocking.

Bolas: Reduced the aftercast by .3 seconds.

Mending: 25s->20s

Untraited Longbow range updated to 1000 from 900.

Cleansing Ire: New Master tier trait with the following effects. Gain adrenaline when hit. Remove a condition for every bar of adrenaline spent.

Warrior’s Sprint: Movement speed has been increased from 10% to 25%.

Burning Arrows: This trait now reduces the recharge of longbow abilities by 20% in addition to dealing 10% bonus damage against burning foes."

Time to play a Condition Damage Warrior again.

Sorry to burst your bubble but condition warrior is a joke with longbow and sword alike. You can try a power-crit build with these and condition as a form of filler damage that goes through blocks and provokes condition removal, but dedicated condition build (e.g. condition/precision) simply won’t work. Longbow physical burst is underestimated, even physical damage from combustive shot and the many chances to proc a fire/air sigil. In terms of burstiness, 20% recharge reduction will easily offset weird trait distribution in the right build.

Warrior’s almost-necessary traitline regardless of circumstances is the Discipline, which gives crit damage and burst damage (latter sitting at laughable 3% only for 30 points investment total). That alone should give a strong hint that primary stats for warrior regardless of build are power and crit damage, with either traits or stats filling up the role of crit chance to land crits. Anything else - be it toughness, vitality or condition damage - is only a matter of circumstance or build optimisation, not a primary or even secondary focus of the build.

When the game started I made a condition Warrior and tried it out in WvW, PvE and PvP. It failed everywhere save for WvW, and in WvW it worked only against mentally or physically handicapped players. Never bothered with a condition build for Warriors ever since, and that was early October last year if memory serves me right.

Forzani.2584:

Pendleton.6385:

Anet`s silence on this makes think they are real and intentionally "leaked" ... purely my opinion though.

I agree. It has been a tried and true tactic for many many years.

Entirely within realm of possibility.

A crude form of damage control and critical feedback assessment, as well as last-minute changes before patch hits Live. They might want to retract, weaken or delay (over a course of time) a bunch of the more ... sensitive changes, only to introduce the nerfs anyway coupled with little and comparatively insignificant buffs in order to quell resistance and offer mild psychological comfort.

Meaningless 14% damage boost to SB’s CC abilities is a good example of this attitude, and deserves universal scorn (and this is coming from a semi-retired Warrior who generally hates bunker Rangers sitting on a point). I guess we won’t be much wiser when the patch hits Live either (except for the "Ranger’s pet is better than Warrior" jokes which might become a new mocking cry for stubborn BM Rangers still playing after the patch).

The worst part about SB change is that it’s totally awkward ...they decided it has to be nerfed and went a completely round-about way around it, instead of lowering auto’s physical damage by 14-18%, fixing outstanding animation issues and making SB more of a condition/kiting weapon instead (currently it shines mostly as a power weapon).

Though to be frank, I never understood why GS’s autoattack is so pitifully weak, and why MH Sword is predominantly a power-based weapon either ... I guess I’m totally out of loop with Anet’s thought pattern, might as well wait and see. So tired of waiting to see sensible changes, though ...

WvW

The warrior’s longbow build does very well with zerker/knight/celestial type gear, stressing physical damage with bleed + burning acting as damage adds. Might stacking adds a lot of damage.

The trait points would be 0, 30, 0, 10, 30 and key traits at the moment are Furious, Stronger Bowstrings and Burst Mastery.

Precision stacks, fury and a signet build (5 sigs + Deep Strike) allow this warrior to sit at 100%+ crit rate inside their zerg and shatter enemy zergs with heavy aoe every 8-10s. This character rolls in bags providing it never leaves the zerg, and you can pretty much forget about any roaming because it needs to be surrounded by allies to stay safe.

So, back to comparing this to ranger archery I think they both fit their archetype really well. The warrior archer is sitting in their army, being a military type like you see in movies with the 2,000 archers launching flaming arrow into the air, and the ranger is more your skirmisher or marksman gunning things down in close assaults.

For archery in close quarters, I don’t think there’s any debate that the ranger is king thanks to their amazing sustain relative to the warrior. The 900 range shortbow just reinforces that close quarters style. I’m fine with that.

If anet went by archetypes, ranger wouldn’t be where it’s at currently. The fact that sword is our highest dmg weapon for the ranger completely destroys any ‘archetype’ Anet had for the class. Please, they listen to complainers and then the legitimate issues we have (cat f2s STILL dont stick, canine f2’s still are heavily unresponsive even when in range to do the shout , pet pathing and AI is still buggy and borderline useless in WvW) get continually ignored because the job to fix those is far greater than simply just throwing a bandaid on something AKA decreasing damage to compensate for whiners yet they listen very carefully to the top players like Zoose who kitten and complain about it on State of the game, an ele class that has alot of dmg , survivability and mobility in other areas of the game and ALOT of it and to sit there and whine about the one build we have in PvP that’s viable and fits the PvP gameplay style resulting in a flat nerf across all areas of the game where rangers simply didn’t need the nerf is disgusting and flat out stupid on the devs part.

I honestly believed pets needed a dmg nerf in PVP, but now that dmg is nerfed and nothing given in return for it in other areas of the trait lines , you just gutted the one PvP gameplay style build that made us remotely unique to even get a group in the first place in PvP games. Now you’ll choose an engi / guardian for point holding as rangers will be able to be walked over much more easily now since they can simply ignore the pet dmg (which IS The first game where ignoring the pet is encouraged and listened to that I’ve come across which in itself tells you what playerbase they’re catering to here) and you will never be a roaming damage dealer as a ranger in PvP as you don’t have the tank and dmg to compensate for it and more importantly utility mechanics like an engi or mesmer or necro for it to justify doing it.

It’s not that anything got nerfed , that’s not the issue as pets needed but they needed it in PvP only. Now all rangers of ALL builds in ALL areas of the game suffer from this, not just BM specs suffer from this. If you’re going to nerf something, you can’t just nerf a mechanic the class uses across the board in all builds and relies on it and think it’s only going to effect ONE build. It’ll effect BM the most, but it hurt alot of other builds as well, you basically just penalized all rangers because a handful of rangers in PvP were abusing an overpowered build that capitalized on the PvP gameplay which is a VERY stupid way of going about fixing the issue.

The issue is that they don’t listen to rangers carefully, yet the devs jump up when they hear top players from other overpowered classes who have alot of kitten to choose from and have alot more variety in PvP kitten and whine.

We have no viable representation for the ranger class in these SOTG and the one we got was for dungeon crawling which the ranger is probably close to the bottom of the list in terms of effectivness in dungeon play , not saying it can’t be done as a ranger, just saying there’s alot other classes that handle it much better and provide much more unique utility to the dungeon situation.

We should have gotten access to the new condition that coincidentally was supposed to be for necros only but was given to 2 of the most overpowered classes in the game when played right that simply didn’t need it.

I will add on to this and say that, you just gave a bunch of might access to a pet which can’t dodge, thanks for giving easy might to thieves/mesmers now who can simply target our pet that can’t dodge and simply steal it from them instead of having to get the larc strike/utility on us now. That’s not really a knock on thieves/mesmers but more a knock on the very poorly implemented pet ai design in general. But none of you devs think about that kitten because you don’t play against top players like I do you’re too busy roaming on 5 signet warriors to even give a kitten .

Thanks for listening devs….

The range nerf is just terrible. At most they should have lowered the rance of a few of the abilities, but not all of them. It makes the SB useless as a distance weapon and reduces it to a pure skirmishing weapon, since all the real range takes place at 1200.

If they were bothered that it had the same range as the LB, Eagle Eye increases their range to 1500 while it doesn’t for SB, so there you go.

I’m hoping they make it so Eagle Eye effects the shortbow and increases its range to 1200. At least then people who want that range can still spec for it.

RyuDragnier.9476:

I’m hoping they make it so Eagle Eye effects the shortbow and increases its range to 1200. At least then people who want that range can still spec for it.

This is actually the number 1 smartest and most amazing thing that has been said about the shortbow since these “notes” were leaked.
+1

Eagle eye only interacting with a single ranged weapon for rangers never made sense to me to begin with in the first place, and if the notes are to be believed, than everything about your suggestion with the weapon change would make complete and total sense.

The notes are probably only half done.

900 Range on SB does suck, It means you’re forced into using Longbow in any actual engagements where range is involved…and Longbow bloody sucks..

The only reason I use it on my Rampager Spec Ranger is for Barrage..that’s it…

Making SB suck more to make LB seem better is a complete dumb way to balance things..

For PvE players, Shortbow range reduction is just a huge quality of life nerf for no reason whatsoever. Thanks Anet.

That’s all it is. It’s bad, imo, but I think Shortbow will still be a better DPS weapon in PvE than Longbow. And as long as the sword/horn remains the strongest setup in PvE, I feel Anet hasn’t lived up to its promise of delivering a “master of ranged combat”.

Dunno if Anet employed donkeys or monkeys to balance the game… kitten …