Guild Wars 2

And that’s 90% of the reason why Longbow is bad. It’s just that simple – there’s a problem with autoattacks that’s affecting some weapons disproportionately. Long Range Shot, as well as the Warrior’s Dual Shot, were balanced around a 3/4 second activation speed when that is eaten by the animation speed and they manage to fire at a much, much slower rate – about 1 shot per 1.25 seconds. That means it is supposed to fire much faster than it actually does.

A lot of people think this is intentional, but it almost certainly isn’t because it is inconsistent across weapons. The animation speed of Bleeding Shot (Warrior Rifle) is only very slightly longer than the activation speed (about .1 second) – unsurprisingly, the Rifle hits much harder than the Longbow does and is in general a much better and more usable weapon despite having practically no AoE capability.

More attention needs to be brought to this issue.

You’re making the (false) assumption Arenanet doesn’t know about the additional timers they’ve applied to the weapons. The attacks are not balanced around activation times, they’re balanced around the attacks as a whole. This includes ALL the hidden values, projectile speed, animation time, vulnerability to interrupt, incomparables, etc.

There are plenty of Rangers who find success with the longbow. It’s not just because they’re lucky.

HotHit.6783:

You’re making the (false) assumption Arenanet doesn’t know about the additional timers they’ve applied to the weapons. The attacks are not balanced around activation times, they’re balanced around the attacks as a whole. This includes ALL the hidden values, projectile speed, animation time, vulnerability to interrupt, incomparables, etc.

There are plenty of Rangers who find success with the longbow. It’s not just because they’re lucky.

Sorry, but you’re almost certainly wrong. You’re making an assumption as well, an assumption that the evidence doesn’t support. The length of the animation only matters for skills that are set to auto, otherwise the Activation is the only metric that you need to balance on.

Because all skills have activation speeds (even instantaneous ones), it’s very likely they were all balanced around them, but for non-chain #1 skills it’s a non-functioning metric because it is absorbed into the length of the animation.

Long Range Shot, along with Dual Shot, are both horrendously weak autoattacks. This is very obvious in-game as well as having been conclusively determined by theorycrafting. Conversely, Bleeding Shot is a very strong autoattack, because the difference in its Activation speed and its total animation is short, about .1 second, compared to about .5 seconds for the Longbow.

Maybe it’s intentional, but it does not in the slightest appear to be given the evidence when you start comparing across weapons and professions.

I will admit that the longbow has some serious issues, especially with the quickness nerf I am once again reminded just how slow the shots are. In my opinion if the worst skill on longbow is rapid fire, tbh it is horrible without quickness, they either need to decrease the time it takes to cast that amount of arrows, or change it entirely. I feel changing rapid fire for a pure damage “sniper shot” would greatly increase the viability of the longbow. Barrage has a few issues as well but I agree in general that some changes need to be made. I am talking from a wvw perspective btw.

My only real problem with the longbow is how it does LESS damage at close range. Sometimes you can’t help but have enemies close to you, and the fact that it’s doing less seems to be punishing moments you can’t entirely control (not to mention it makes no sense from both a magic and a science perspective).

RyuDragnier.9476:

My only real problem with the longbow is how it does LESS damage at close range. Sometimes you can’t help but have enemies close to you, and the fact that it’s doing less seems to be punishing moments you can’t entirely control (not to mention it makes no sense from both a magic and a science perspective).

But you see, this perfectly illustrates my point. I believe that the design intent was for Long Range Shot to do appreciable damage at close range which improves to great damage at max range, but the reality is that it does terrible damage at close range which improves to middle-of-the road damage at max range.

The fact that it shoots so slowly punishes you more than I think was intended.

I just hope anet is making changes to the longbow soon.

here is just my opinion:

1. quicker casting time, fine with the damage:distance ratio actually, increase damage
2. change skill completely to a kill shot, or quicker casting time
3. fine
4. fine
5. change casting time, or change cripple to immobilize maybe would be nice, barrage is such a hard skill to land unless you’re playing pve or against low level players in wvw

Einlanzer.1627:

Sorry, but you’re almost certainly wrong. You’re making an assumption as well, an assumption that the evidence doesn’t support. The length of the animation only matters for skills that are set to auto, otherwise the
Activation is the only metric that you need to balance on.

Because all skills have activation speeds (even instantaneous ones), it’s very likely they were all balanced around them, but for non-chain #1 skills it’s a non-functioning metric because it is absorbed into the length of the animation.

Long Range Shot, along with Dual Shot, are both horrendously weak autoattacks. This is very obvious in-game as well as having been conclusively determined by theorycrafting. Conversely, Bleeding Shot is a very strong autoattack, because the difference in its Activation speed and its total animation is short, about .1 second, compared to about .5 seconds for the Longbow.

Maybe it’s intentional, but it does not in the slightest appear to be given the evidence when you start comparing across weapons and professions.

During the build up to the game Arenanet talked about how their game was balanced around animations and visceral combat. This means how easy an attack is to hit with and the animation after the activation IS important to the actual combat.

If the activation time is the only thing the autoskill is balanced around, then look at your infinite attacks per second you don’t have on the shortbow. Basically what I’m saying is, you’re bringing up two completely different issues in this thread and you’re going about them both wrong because you’re combining them.

Tooltips are designed badly yes, they don’t give an accurate depiction of what a weapon (or in some cases single skills) actually does. But you don’t need to read tooltips for that, because gameplay shows it very well.

The longbow’s autoattack, yes it’s kinda bad. It has its moments (your first couple of shots at max range to be precise), but the longbow has other skills that require you to stop autoattacking and use them. This means the longbow is more for burst damage, it isn’t for consistent damage.

You’ve got to look at the whole thing, not just one part of it. Which is what Arenanet CLEARLY does.

HotHit.6783:

Einlanzer.1627:

Sorry, but you’re almost certainly wrong. You’re making an assumption as well, an assumption that the evidence doesn’t support. The length of the animation only matters for skills that are set to auto, otherwise the
Activation is the only metric that you need to balance on.

Because all skills have activation speeds (even instantaneous ones), it’s very likely they were all balanced around them, but for non-chain #1 skills it’s a non-functioning metric because it is absorbed into the length of the animation.

Long Range Shot, along with Dual Shot, are both horrendously weak autoattacks. This is very obvious in-game as well as having been conclusively determined by theorycrafting. Conversely, Bleeding Shot is a very strong autoattack, because the difference in its Activation speed and its total animation is short, about .1 second, compared to about .5 seconds for the Longbow.

Maybe it’s intentional, but it does not in the slightest appear to be given the evidence when you start comparing across weapons and professions.

During the build up to the game Arenanet talked about how their game was balanced around animations and visceral combat. This means how easy an attack is to hit with and the animation after the activation IS important to the actual combat.

If the activation time is the only thing the autoskill is balanced around, then look at your infinite attacks per second you don’t have on the shortbow. Basically what I’m saying is, you’re bringing up two completely different issues in this thread and you’re going about them both wrong because you’re combining them.

Tooltips are designed badly yes, they don’t give an accurate depiction of what a weapon (or in some cases single skills) actually does. But you don’t need to read tooltips for that, because gameplay shows it very well.

The longbow’s autoattack, yes it’s kinda bad. It has its moments (your first couple of shots at max range to be precise), but the longbow has other skills that require you to stop autoattacking and use them. This means the longbow is more for burst damage, it isn’t for consistent damage.

You’ve got to look at the whole thing, not just one part of it. Which is what Arenanet CLEARLY does.

I’m just saying, I don’t think it’s clear at all, and the evidence suggests the opposite. You missed what I said earlier about the Shortbow – it used to have an activation speed of 1/4 second, just like the Thief’s still does. People complained that it was weak and they removed it to make the firing speed up. Now, if anything, it fires too quickly (to the point that it is visually odd in the game). They made this change as a bandage.

I do not believe the evidence suggests that they are analyzing this comprehensively, it really seems to me to be something they are oblivious about.

Einlanzer.1627:

I’m just saying, I don’t think it’s clear at all, and the evidence suggests the opposite. You missed what I said earlier about the Shortbow

This is the first mention of the shortbow in this thread.

it used to have an activation speed of 1/4 second, just like the Thief’s still does. People complained that it was weak and they removed it to make the firing speed up. Now, if anything, it fires too quickly (to the point that it is visually odd in the game). They made this change as a bandage.

I do not believe the evidence suggests that they are analyzing this comprehensively, it really seems to me to be something they are oblivious about.

Perhaps during beta the ranger’s shortbow had a 1/4 second activation time? It makes little difference, the attack speed feels the same as it did on release. The Thief’s shortbow is not the Ranger’s shortbow, it’s actually more akin to the Ranger’s axe (at least for Trick Shot and Ricochet). Ricochet’s activation time and range are identical, its attack speed is close enough that I, an axe user, can’t tell the difference.

But you’re right, whatever issue you’re bringing up, I cannot seem to stop being oblivious to. I’m sorry my basic attack isn’t exactly the same as yours?

HotHit.6783:

Einlanzer.1627:

I’m just saying, I don’t think it’s clear at all, and the evidence suggests the opposite. You missed what I said earlier about the Shortbow

This is the first mention of the shortbow in this thread.

it used to have an activation speed of 1/4 second, just like the Thief’s still does. People complained that it was weak and they removed it to make the firing speed up. Now, if anything, it fires too quickly (to the point that it is visually odd in the game). They made this change as a bandage.

I do not believe the evidence suggests that they are analyzing this comprehensively, it really seems to me to be something they are oblivious about.

Perhaps during beta the ranger’s shortbow had a 1/4 second activation time? It makes little difference, the attack speed feels the same as it did on release. The Thief’s shortbow is not the Ranger’s shortbow, it’s actually more akin to the Ranger’s axe (at least for Trick Shot and Ricochet). Ricochet’s activation time and range are identical, its attack speed is close enough that I, an axe user, can’t tell the difference.

But you’re right, whatever issue you’re bringing up, I cannot seem to stop being oblivious to. I’m sorry my basic attack isn’t exactly the same as yours?

It’s easy to infer that skills were balanced around their activation speeds, it’s the only thing that matters in most cases. The animation length screws with the activation speed erratically from weapon on weapon and renders it irrelevant in the cases of many #1 skills that have no cooldown and are meant to repeat.

In some cases, like the rifle, there is very little delay (.1 second, and surprise surprise the rifle is a strong weapon with a good autoattack), while in others, like the longbow, it’s huge (.5 seconds, the Longbow across professions has the weakest autoattack in the game).

It’s just not quantum physics.

Einlanzer.1627:

others, like the longbow, it’s huge (.5 seconds, the Longbow across professions has the weakest autoattack in the game).

Because it’s the Ranger’s (whose DPS is split between themselves and their pet) ranged Burst weapon (Good alternative skills, bad autoattack). Whether it’s intentionally like that, I can’t say for sure, but I know it defines it as a different weapon to the Ranger’s shortbow (single target DPS) and the Ranger’s axe (AoE mid-range weapon).

It’s just not quantum physics.

If it was I’d probably be less confused, since it’s my uni degree.

HotHit.6783:

Einlanzer.1627:

others, like the longbow, it’s huge (.5 seconds, the Longbow across professions has the weakest autoattack in the game).

Because it’s the Ranger’s (whose DPS is split between themselves and their pet) ranged Burst weapon (Good alternative skills, bad autoattack). Whether it’s intentionally like that, I can’t say for sure, but I know it defines it as a different weapon to the Ranger’s shortbow (single target DPS) and the Ranger’s axe (AoE mid-range weapon).

It’s just not quantum physics.

If it was I’d probably be less confused, since it’s my uni degree.

Then you’re probably over-thinking it, to be honest. While I can’t be sure that it’s an oversight either, it seems to be when you do a comparative analysis on the various #1 skills. The best example to illustrate is actually the Warrior’s Rifle vs. the Thief’s Pistol, which have a very similar design niche and are easy to compare in terms of what was probably intended vs. what is actually happening.

I really feel that it’s intuitively obvious that when the skills were being balanced it was done using activation speed as one of the core metrics. It would have to be, because it’s the only relevant metric for most skills.

The #1 skills are the exception. It seems to me that #1 skills shouldn’t have activation speeds at all and should be balanced around their total recast time rather than their individual cast time. It just doesn’t seem that they were.

I find the longbow skill speeds to be fine; however, they need to buff long range shots close range damage a bit (problem number one is that it’s pretty much useless unless an enemy is running away, or you are able to sit at max range constantly by hiding behind a zerg).

Rapid fire is another skill that needs to be reworked as it’s cast time is ridiculously long; make it a single powerful burst shot or reduce the number of arrows fired and buff each individual RF arrows damage and/or utility.

There were few topics already about the casting time of Long Range Shot. It’s obviously broken but no dev was able to answer this yet.

Skills having 2 basic values, casting time and recharge time (cool down). As Long Range Shot, same as Bleeding Shot for example, has 0sec recharge time and 3/4sec casting time. But it’s obvious that Long Range Shot is slower then Bleeding Shot, feels like 1,25sec. There are no other additional timers, it simply is either wrong info about the timer or the skill is slower then intended. Smth should be fixed here.