Guild Wars 2

The recent Wintersday PvP activity has me spoiled. I know this will probably never happen but here’s how I see it:

• Remove Rapid Fire
• Move Barrage to weapon slot 2
• Reduce Barrage CD and damage/cripple stacks accordingly
• Put Snipe in as weapon ability 5.
• CD of at least 60 seconds and not affected by CD reduction

Snipe would work same as the activity, longer you hold it down the harder it hits. I see this as pretty balanced with how hard it would be to snipe someone. Rangers do not have stealth like the scouts in activity, and Snipe would be obvious as hell to see and counter, much like the Warrior Kill Shot. It would not be as powerful as the wintersday activity but enough to do a hell of a punch with a full powered shot. Snipe should not scale with ANYTHING for the fact that power stackers would probably 1 shot or nearly 1 shot people.

I would be content with an ability equal to that of Kill Shot as the weapon skill 5. Barrage in weapon slot 2 and Rapid Fire removed. It would also give ranged Rangers an AoE on a short CD.

Again most likely never going to see this happen but food for thought.

Nice idea, but I would rather not change the skills tooo much.

You idea works great with skill 4, affecting knochback range and damage the longer you charge the skill.

No thanks, I’d rather keep rapidfire which is basically my highest damage skill.#

I’d like to add something similar to killshot – add a adrenaline bar to rangers and when it’s full fire off kill shot to give us the firepower we currently lack.

Bad idea. Rapid Fire is the only thing the Long Bow currently has going for it, and even it should have a cooldown of about 8 or 6 seconds, not the 10 it currently has. I also don’t think snipe needs a minute cooldown when you consider things like killshot and rapid fire’s cooldown.

Personally, I’d look to adjust the #4 skill as said above and in the other thread on this same topic. This way if the target is close, you do the knock back and if the target is far away you do the long shot/snipe attack or you can do it as above where you simply charge the ability and the longer you charger the more damage it does, but they are thrown back less.

Atherakhia.4086:

Bad idea. Rapid Fire is the only thing the Long Bow currently has going for it, and even it should have a cooldown of about 8 or 6 seconds, not the 10 it currently has. I also don’t think snipe needs a minute cooldown when you consider things like killshot and rapid fire’s cooldown.

Personally, I’d look to adjust the #4 skill as said above and in the other thread on this same topic. This way if the target is close, you do the knock back and if the target is far away you do the long shot/snipe attack or you can do it as above where you simply charge the ability and the longer you charger the more damage it does, but they are thrown back less.

Well like the OP said. They could just reduce the cooldown of barrage close to that of rapid fire CD. But then honestly, it would probably be extremely overpowered haha. Also a skill called “snipe” on a longbow and not a rifle…. just sounds off.

Atherakhia.4086:

Personally, I’d look to adjust the #4 skill as said above and in the other thread on this same topic. This way if the target is close, you do the knock back and if the target is far away you do the long shot/snipe attack or you can do it as above where you simply charge the ability and the longer you charger the more damage it does, but they are thrown back less.

I actually kind of like that idea. If you hold it and charge it all the way, then it does a separate type of power shot, and if you don’t, then it does the basic point blank shot. Given how limited the use of point blank shot is, this would be the ideal situation. It would make #4 useable in far more situations.

It’s debatable how useful a snipe ability would be to ranger, since ours probably wouldn’t do half the damage of a warrior’s killshot, and would have twice the casting time, but it’d be a fun tool.

In my humble opinion, I would not mind if they replace Hunter’s Shot with Camouflage (Invisibility+Swiftness, like Snowblind). We have no ability to disengage from a fight or use any real opener to engage in a fight. Camouflage would provide both as a means to escape or as an opener to start a fight.

I’d also love to see Point Blank Shot changed/upgraded to Sniper Shot (by adding the ‘hold down for more damage’ + knockback)

As to ‘Sniper Shot’ sounding strange when paired with a Longbow, you could name it Called Shot or Aimed Shot or something.

• Camouflage: You and your pet become invisible (3s) and gain swiftness (10s).
• Sniper Shot: Push back your foe with a powerful shot. The closer the target, the further it pushes them back. If you hold it down, the more damage it will do.

Or:

• Signet of the Hunt
  Active – Your pet becomes invisible (3s) and gain swiftness (10s).
  (which would also apply to you if you have Signet of the Beastmaster)

At least that would make Signet of the Hunt more useful because at present time the active ability is pretty worthless in my humble opinion.

Just call it long shot. Like our chances of seeing it changed

But this class desperately needs some burst damage for PvP and this would certainly help.

Glektor.2934:

Atherakhia.4086:

Personally, I’d look to adjust the #4 skill as said above and in the other thread on this same topic. This way if the target is close, you do the knock back and if the target is far away you do the long shot/snipe attack or you can do it as above where you simply charge the ability and the longer you charger the more damage it does, but they are thrown back less.

I actually kind of like that idea. If you hold it and charge it all the way, then it does a separate type of power shot, and if you don’t, then it does the basic point blank shot. Given how limited the use of point blank shot is, this would be the ideal situation. It would make #4 useable in far more situations.

It’s debatable how useful a snipe ability would be to ranger, since ours probably wouldn’t do half the damage of a warrior’s killshot, and would have twice the casting time, but it’d be a fun tool.

I like this idea. Up close, it’s a knockback. At range it’s a high-power snipe.

I was so spoiled by Scout too.
Invisibility Sniping was the stuff of supreme evil. I fear it wouldn’t be balanced translated to Ranger wholesale, but still, Anet deserves some serious props for putting together and balancing three awesome miniprofessions in a handful of months.

I think Sniper’s Shot by itself would be a great addition to the Longbow. Keeping you at a distance and taking advantage of it is Longbow’s forte’, and that skill fits it like a glove. If I could take any skill in the game and throw it on Longbow, it’d be this one. The longbow is really lacking in clutch moments, and I think having to choose when to plant my feet in order to charge up an attack would add alot to the weapon’s gameplay.

Also, as a bonus, it’d give you something to use with Moment of Clarity once you interrupt with Point Blank Shot instead of just autoattacking because nothing else on the weapon set actually hits all that hard in a single attack.

I think swapping it for Rapid Fire is the most sensible.
While I’d like to throw something like Hunter’ Shot onto the chopping block, because pet swiftness is so situational and vulnerability is kind of bland. I do also think it isn’t likely an update would drastically alter what the weapon is capable of, just repackage and re-purpose things so that they’re more satisfying and fun to use. Ultimately, Rapid Fire seems like a natural sacrifice for Sniper’s Shot because they’re both trying to do the same thing; a long channel for higher burst. But Sniper’s Shot fits the distance theme alot better, can justify bursting a bit higher because it involves a self root, and has something interesting to contribute to the how the weapon plays.

(not that combo field condition stacking with rapid fire isn’t interesting, but it’s awfully specific).

/edit: actually, I changed my mind. Sorry about that, stupid mind, stop thinking. >.>;

Rapid fire should be replaced with something called Dual Fire.

If you tap it, it comes out with Rapid Fire. If you held down the key, it should go into the charge shot like skill 4 on the slingshot.

I would love to have a “finisher” type move on longbow, or even more CC. Rapid fire feels so clunky and the damage is horrible as a dodge roll basically negates all of the damage it does.

NaturalPortman.9562:

I would love to have a “finisher” type move on longbow, or even more CC. Rapid fire feels so clunky and the damage is horrible as a dodge roll basically negates all of the damage it does.

Eh? And a “finisher” time move won’t have its damage negated by a dodge?

Liking a Kill-shot-esque skill is one thing, but liking it over Rapid Fire because “you can dodge it” seems silly.

Ursan.7846:

NaturalPortman.9562:

I would love to have a “finisher” type move on longbow, or even more CC. Rapid fire feels so clunky and the damage is horrible as a dodge roll basically negates all of the damage it does.

Eh? And a “finisher” time move won’t have its damage negated by a dodge?

Liking a Kill-shot-esque skill is one thing, but liking it over Rapid Fire because “you can dodge it” seems silly.

Something that’s hits once and does all of it’s damage is more likely to hit than a 5 second channel skill that already does garbage damage as it is.

Rapid fire = oh he dodged, time for me to wait until the rest of the 3 seconds are done so I can do a whole 2k damage with it !!!!!!!

NaturalPortman.9562:

Ursan.7846:

NaturalPortman.9562:

I would love to have a “finisher” type move on longbow, or even more CC. Rapid fire feels so clunky and the damage is horrible as a dodge roll basically negates all of the damage it does.

Eh? And a “finisher” time move won’t have its damage negated by a dodge?

Liking a Kill-shot-esque skill is one thing, but liking it over Rapid Fire because “you can dodge it” seems silly.

Something that’s hits once and does all of it’s damage is more likely to hit than a 5 second channel skill that already does garbage damage as it is.

Rapid fire = oh he dodged, time for me to wait until the rest of the 3 seconds are done so I can do a whole 2k damage with it !!!!!!!

It depends on the situation. Are you in a 1v1? Or are you just sniping someone who’s completely unaware.

Both situations happen in sPvP and in WvW. Snipe is obviously more useful than rapid fire in one situation, but rapid fire is more useful than snipe in the other situation. So it seems somewhat silly to me personally to use it as evidence that one skill is superior to the other.

Ursan.7846:

NaturalPortman.9562:

Ursan.7846:

NaturalPortman.9562:

I would love to have a “finisher” type move on longbow, or even more CC. Rapid fire feels so clunky and the damage is horrible as a dodge roll basically negates all of the damage it does.

Eh? And a “finisher” time move won’t have its damage negated by a dodge?

Liking a Kill-shot-esque skill is one thing, but liking it over Rapid Fire because “you can dodge it” seems silly.

Something that’s hits once and does all of it’s damage is more likely to hit than a 5 second channel skill that already does garbage damage as it is.

Rapid fire = oh he dodged, time for me to wait until the rest of the 3 seconds are done so I can do a whole 2k damage with it !!!!!!!

It depends on the situation. Are you in a 1v1? Or are you just sniping someone who’s completely unaware.

Both situations happen in sPvP and in WvW. Snipe is obviously more useful than rapid fire in one situation, but rapid fire is more useful than snipe in the other situation. So it seems somewhat silly to me personally to use it as evidence that one skill is superior to the other.

Snipe would be more reliable in any situation if you ask me the problem with rapid fire is that any kind of interruption to the shots makes the skill useless and you are better off looking at the opposite direction to cancel it. Snipe on the other hand (if it existed) you hit the guy ? great you just took off a big chunk of his health, you missed the guy? oh well let me use my other tools.

NaturalPortman.9562:

Snipe would be more reliable in any situation if you ask me the problem with rapid fire is that any kind of interruption to the shots makes the skill useless and you are better off looking at the opposite direction to cancel it. Snipe on the other hand (if it existed) you hit the guy ? great you just took off a big chunk of his health, you missed the guy? oh well let me use my other tools.

Sorry if I’m misunderstanding anything, but your logic (as I understand it) makes no sense.

NaturalPortman.9562:

problem with rapid fire is that any kind of interruption to the shots makes the skill useless

If Rapid Fire can be interrupted, Snipe can’t? I’m confused. You have to charge it up. You can be interrupted during that. And on top of that, you have to stay stationary for Snipe’s channel.

NaturalPortman.9562:

Snipe on the other hand (if it existed) you hit the guy ? great you just took off a big chunk of his health, you missed the guy? oh well let me use my other tools.

“Oh well let me use my other tools?.” How is this an advantage of Snipe? If theoretically, Snipe did replace Rapid Fire, you’ll still have the same other 4 skills. You miss Snipe = same tools you have available to you as if someone dodges Rapid Shot.

Ursan.7846:

NaturalPortman.9562:

Snipe would be more reliable in any situation if you ask me the problem with rapid fire is that any kind of interruption to the shots makes the skill useless and you are better off looking at the opposite direction to cancel it. Snipe on the other hand (if it existed) you hit the guy ? great you just took off a big chunk of his health, you missed the guy? oh well let me use my other tools.

Sorry if I’m misunderstanding anything, but your logic (as I understand it) makes no sense.

NaturalPortman.9562:

problem with rapid fire is that any kind of interruption to the shots makes the skill useless

If Rapid Fire can be interrupted, Snipe can’t? I’m confused. You have to charge it up. You can be interrupted during that. And on top of that, you have to stay stationary for Snipe’s channel.

NaturalPortman.9562:

Snipe on the other hand (if it existed) you hit the guy ? great you just took off a big chunk of his health, you missed the guy? oh well let me use my other tools.

“Oh well let me use my other tools?.” How is this an advantage of Snipe? If theoretically, Snipe did replace Rapid Fire, you’ll still have the same other 4 skills. You miss Snipe = same tools you have available to you as if someone dodges Rapid Shot.

Let’s say that hitting someone is a 50% chance of happening, whether the person dodges, goes out of range, gets obstructed etc (even though that is untrue and impossible to calculate) Snipe is basically a 50% chance of doing big damage on someone, now don’t forget that that is ALL the damage of snipe.

Rapid fire on the other hand has to land basically all the hits to do OKAY damage, see what im getting at here?

It’s not rocket science. Single payload is always superior to multiple because of the spike. You can’t out heal or out pot a single burst because you’re not giving the opponent a chance to mitigate the damage. Spike is what wins pvp generally.

(e.g. Target has 7k HP. Snipe hits for 7k, he’s dead. Rapid fire hits for 1.5k each. He dodges 2, heals part way through for and runs out of range. Target lives.)

Aridia.3042:

It’s not rocket science. Single payload is always superior to multiple because of the spike. You can’t out heal or out pot a single burst because you’re not giving the opponent a chance to mitigate the damage. Spike is what wins pvp generally.

(e.g. Target has 7k HP. Snipe hits for 7k, he’s dead. Rapid fire hits for 1.5k each. He dodges 2, heals part way through for and runs out of range. Target lives.)

This man understands what I’m getting at.

NaturalPortman.9562:

Let’s say that hitting someone is a 50% chance of happening, whether the person dodges, goes out of range, gets obstructed etc (even though that is untrue and impossible to calculate) Snipe is basically a 50% chance of doing big damage on someone, now don’t forget that that is ALL the damage of snipe.

Rapid fire on the other hand has to land basically all the hits to do OKAY damage, see what im getting at here?

No, I don’t get what you’re getting at, because the points being made in your posts are inconsistent and I have no idea what your point is.

NaturalPortman.9562:

I would love to have a “finisher” type move on longbow, or even more CC. Rapid fire feels so clunky and the damage is horrible as a dodge roll basically negates all of the damage it does.

You first post this. You state that Rapid Fire’s damage is horrible BECAUSE opponents can dodge roll.

NaturalPortman.9562:

Snipe would be more reliable in any situation if you ask me the problem with rapid fire is that any kind of interruption to the shots makes the skill useless and you are better off looking at the opposite direction to cancel it. Snipe on the other hand (if it existed) you hit the guy ? great you just took off a big chunk of his health, you missed the guy? oh well let me use my other tools.

Then you post things like this, implying

1. Rapid Shot can be interrupted but Snipe can’t?
2. Replacing Rapid Shot with Snipe somehow makes your “other tools” magically better?

Then your subsequent post seem to imply that Rapid Fire has “okay” damage period, even if it all hits, and that Snipe is superior because it does more damage in one hit. More than all the Rapid Fire’s hits combined.

That’s a perfectly fine point to make. “I like Snipe, because it (theoretically) does more damage than Rapid fire.” Or, “I like Snipe, because I think burst damage is better.”

But your original post basically implied that Snipe was superior to Rapid Fire BECAUSE Rapid Fire can be dodged. And then you said that Snipe is better because Rapid Fire can be interrupted, and your “other tools” if you missed with Snipe is somehow better than Rapid Fire. All of which make no sense to me.

So no, I am not getting what you’re trying to tell me.

Aridia.3042:

It’s not rocket science. Single payload is always superior to multiple because of the spike. You can’t out heal or out pot a single burst because you’re not giving the opponent a chance to mitigate the damage. Spike is what wins pvp generally.

(e.g. Target has 7k HP. Snipe hits for 7k, he’s dead. Rapid fire hits for 1.5k each. He dodges 2, heals part way through for and runs out of range. Target lives.)

No, it’s not rocket science, but it’s not so simple either. Burst damage is not always better to sustained DPS. There’s certain situations where it’s better, and there’s others where it’s not. I wish people would stop simplifying things and making blanket statements based on simplified situations.

E.g. Target has 10k health. Snipe hits for 7k. Target proceeds to heal and laughs as you do pitiful damage because your Snipe is on cooldown.

E.g. Target has 7k HP. Targets sees you charge Snipe. He dodges snipe. He laughs as you do pitiful damage because your Snipe is on cooldown.

E.g. Target has 4000 toughness and protection buff, your snipe does 3k damage. But your bleeds kill him because hey, it isn’t affected by toughness/protection!

ALL these situations happen. Now I’m not saying Rapid Shot most definitely >>> Snipe, but saying “Snipe (theoretical) is always better than Rapid Shot” is silly silly silly.

Kill shot is never good for 1v1 or small fights, anyone with decent skill can see it coming a mile away. It’s only good for larger fights as you doing the sniping pose is only telling your opponent to apply protection or get ready for a roll, and for his friends to swarm you because you can’t move during that sniping position. Also in PvE when traited piercing arrow, rapid fire is way more useful than a single sniped shot.

Ursan.7846:

Aridia.3042:

It’s not rocket science. Single payload is always superior to multiple because of the spike. You can’t out heal or out pot a single burst because you’re not giving the opponent a chance to mitigate the damage. Spike is what wins pvp generally.

(e.g. Target has 7k HP. Snipe hits for 7k, he’s dead. Rapid fire hits for 1.5k each. He dodges 2, heals part way through for and runs out of range. Target lives.)

No, it’s not rocket science, but it’s not so simple either. Burst damage is not always better to sustained DPS. There’s certain situations where it’s better, and there’s others where it’s not. I wish people would stop simplifying things and making blanket statements based on simplified situations.

E.g. Target has 10k health. Snipe hits for 7k. Target proceeds to heal and laughs as you do pitiful damage because your Snipe is on cooldown.

E.g. Target has 7k HP. Targets sees you charge Snipe. He dodges snipe. He laughs as you do pitiful damage because your Snipe is on cooldown.

E.g. Target has 4000 toughness and protection buff, your snipe does 3k damage. But your bleeds kill him because hey, it isn’t affected by toughness/protection!

ALL these situations happen. Now I’m not saying Rapid Shot most definitely >>> Snipe, but saying “Snipe (theoretical) is always better than Rapid Shot” is silly silly silly.

Well, none of the situations you’ve mentioned is rapid fire better than a single payload snipe. In fact, it never is because even if you substitute rapid fire for snipe in your cases, you’ll get even worse outcomes. Moreover, no one cares about constant DPS aside from PVE, because people are not dumb like mobs that’ll sit there and eat your whole volley. All things being equal, single payload is always better in pvp because of the faster time to kill.

Recycle.5493:

Kill shot is never good for 1v1 or small fights, anyone with decent skill can see it coming a mile away. It’s only good for larger fights as you doing the sniping pose is only telling your opponent to apply protection or get ready for a roll, and for his friends to swarm you because you can’t move during that sniping position. Also in PvE when traited piercing arrow, rapid fire is way more useful than a single sniped shot.

Try fear me/bullrush as a set up. Or if you have the trait that turns cripple to immoblize, or bolas, and frenzy, that works great too.

And you’re not sniping properly in WvW if people can jump you easily while rooted or knows you’re aiming at them. If you think those are problems, how will you ever use barrage in a zerg fight?

Aridia.3042:

Well, none of the situations you’ve mentioned is rapid fire better than a single payload snipe. In fact, it never is because even if you substitute rapid fire for snipe in your cases, you’ll get even worse outcomes. Moreover, no one cares about constant DPS aside from PVE, because people are not dumb like mobs that’ll sit there and eat your whole volley. All things being equal, single payload is always better in pvp because of the faster time to kill.

So, one of the assumptions I make (that I did not mention) is that sustained dps usually does more damage over a longer period of time, when compared to burst damage.

One of the yardsticks I use is Killshot vs Volley. It’s the same concept. One big hit vs channeled long hit. Killshot, at lvl 3 adrenaline, does 792 damage in one shot. Volley does 11kittenage after a 2.5s channel time.

What does this mean? It means that in situation A, when the target has more health than the Killshot can burst down, the channeled skill is usually better because it does, overall, more damage. It might not even take that much longer when you consider the channeling time for Killshot.

Also in situation B, if you dodge the killshot, you do 0 damage. If you dodge the first half of Volley, the latter half still hits and it still does a bit of damage. Thus channeled skill is again, better.

This is not even considering conditions, which isn’t burst damage, which goes through protection/toughness, and is much better than burst in situation C.

If a skill like Snipe is implemented, I imagine the damage will be balanced to be similar to Killshot/Volley. If it’s going to do more damage, it’s going to be balanced with a longer charge time, which is even more negative to this skill.

Aridia.3042:

All things being equal, single payload is always better in pvp because of the faster time to kill.

I hate hate hate it when people say “always.” Because things never are that simple. I play Guardian for sPvP. I’ve laughed away many killshots with Aegis/dodge. I smile as a thief tries to backstab me with all my toughness and protection. And I cry when a Caltrop thief comes in and bleeds me to death slowly. As a bunker, I run away with fear from Necros/Rangers who I know will slowly condition me to oblivion, because my protection/aegis/toughness will be absolutely no help to it.

Are there situations where burst is better? OF COURSE. Is is most of the time better? Debatable. Is burst ALWAYS better? NO. It is not.

Ursan.7846:

Aridia.3042:

Well, none of the situations you’ve mentioned is rapid fire better than a single payload snipe. In fact, it never is because even if you substitute rapid fire for snipe in your cases, you’ll get even worse outcomes. Moreover, no one cares about constant DPS aside from PVE, because people are not dumb like mobs that’ll sit there and eat your whole volley. All things being equal, single payload is always better in pvp because of the faster time to kill.

So, one of the assumptions I make (that I did not mention) is that sustained dps usually does more damage over a longer period of time, when compared to burst damage.

One of the yardsticks I use is Killshot vs Volley. It’s the same concept. One big hit vs channeled long hit. Killshot, at lvl 3 adrenaline, does 792 damage in one shot. Volley does 11kittenage after a 2.5s channel time.

What does this mean? It means that in situation A, when the target has more health than the Killshot can burst down, the channeled skill is usually better because it does, overall, more damage. It might not even take that much longer when you consider the channeling time for Killshot.

Also in situation B, if you dodge the killshot, you do 0 damage. If you dodge the first half of Volley, the latter half still hits and it still does a bit of damage. Thus channeled skill is again, better.

This is not even considering conditions, which isn’t burst damage, which goes through protection/toughness, and is much better than burst in situation C.

If a skill like Snipe is implemented, I imagine the damage will be balanced to be similar to Killshot/Volley. If it’s going to do more damage, it’s going to be balanced with a longer charge time, which is even more negative to this skill.

Aridia.3042:

All things being equal, single payload is always better in pvp because of the faster time to kill.

I hate hate hate it when people say “always.” Because things never are that simple. I play Guardian for sPvP. I’ve laughed away many killshots with Aegis/dodge. I smile as a thief tries to backstab me with all my toughness and protection. And I cry when a Caltrop thief comes in and bleeds me to death slowly. As a bunker, I run away with fear from Necros/Rangers who I know will slowly condition me to oblivion, because my protection/aegis/toughness will be absolutely no help to it.

Are there situations where burst is better? OF COURSE. Is is most of the time better? Debatable. Is burst ALWAYS better? NO. It is not.

This was originally a discussion about multiple vs single payload for physical damage in the context of the longbow so it’s not about conditional dmg. Not sure why you’re trying to change the subject. Again, sustained DPS is what’s associated with PVE…people care about this, particularly in other mmos because they want the most efficient way to lvl. PVP is not about dragged out fights, it’s about incapacitating the opponent in the quickest way. Which is why spiky moves are preferred.

Bunker builds don’t change this fact because you can’t solo them anyway so when another teammate shows up, it’s still burst that’s preferred to sustained damage when you gang up on him.

And Killshot has an 8 second refresh if you missed. It’s not that long…

In my opinion, auto attack on the Longbow is the biggest turnoff of the weapon. The rest of the skills are useful (although I have a love/hate relationship with Rapid Fire) – however, #1 is boring and it feels like you’re disengaging from the fight when your other skills are on cooldown.

On the flip side, you have Short Bow, who’s best skill is the auto attack! Go figure.

Mmm. Sustained DPS may be more associated PvE.

But it’s not like an avid PvE’er such as myself is necessarily in that skill’s corner. Rapid Fire in PvE is kind of a brainless thing. I basically just mash Rapid Fire when it’s off cooldown. Because, why not? I guess that wouldn’t be such a bad thing if I were doing something with the other skills, but I’m not. When I use a Longbow I prettymuch find myself just coasting on the autoattack or switching to another weapon after I’ve leeched my Rapid Fire and/or Barrage. And it’s not because I’m biding my time, trying to reposition or weighing my choices, but because there is absolutely nothing going on upstairs.

I hate to say it, but, Rapid Fire and Longbow in general are kind of boring.

I’ve Loooooong advocated for a skill like this to long bow. Hunter’s Shot would be perfect for a Snipe like cast bar. Oh how I wish that would happen…

Aridia.3042:

Recycle.5493:

Kill shot is never good for 1v1 or small fights, anyone with decent skill can see it coming a mile away. It’s only good for larger fights as you doing the sniping pose is only telling your opponent to apply protection or get ready for a roll, and for his friends to swarm you because you can’t move during that sniping position. Also in PvE when traited piercing arrow, rapid fire is way more useful than a single sniped shot.

Try fear me/bullrush as a set up. Or if you have the trait that turns cripple to immoblize, or bolas, and frenzy, that works great too.

And you’re not sniping properly in WvW if people can jump you easily while rooted or knows you’re aiming at them. If you think those are problems, how will you ever use barrage in a zerg fight?

Guess you didn’t really read my post; also, we’re talking about ranger here, no fear skills or knock downs if we’re taking point blank shot away.

Rapid fire is absolutely a good skill, imho it would be better another approach for a Sniper Shot, as I wrote already some days ago before this topic:

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/professions/ranger/Ranger-Anet-Philosophies/first#post1015580

Helluin Estel.8495:

[cut]

I don’t know how, but Jon, please, think a way to add something similar to Ranger.
Sniper shot, so a chargable shot, growing in casting time/dmg, would be perfect for Longbow: it requires you to stay still, you can use it then just reading/understanding strategically the battlefield or you risk doing so, becoming an easy target, it fits a Longbow a lot. This will add not just an ability, not just damage but the fun to play and use it strategically.
One option is add a new weapon like crossbow, Point Blank Shot could pass to crossbow and longbow could get Sniper shot in exchange.
Another option, better imho, would be give to Point Blank Shot the same function of Sniper Shot but then longbow would lose an important knockback: here then you can add the Sniper Shot mechanic to Point Blank Shot. I mean knockback + a chargable shot: so pressing 4 you can use the first tick with 1/2 second cast on the move but staying still you can build up a stronger shot. This new version of Point Blank Shot would still keep the knockback, no matter how long you charge, it can be used as utility but also as damage ability charging it while still.
Another solution would be add simply Sniper shot and give the knockback utility to Rapid Fire or Hunter’s Shot. Personally I think that previous one is far away better for also a simple reason: it’s realistic that a strong shot can knockback.

Obviously, in all these suggestions proposed, knockback would work just under 600 as range.

And what about Snowblind (5)?
Well this seems more a thief stuff but it resembles the camouflage many suggested.
Here the options are two imho: a new survival ability working both for ranger and pet or replace something with that mechanic.
Imho it would fit the activation of Signet of the Hunt.
The activation we have is not really good while a camouflage like Snowblind would fit more the name, speaking of hunt. Activation could work just on pet, so that stuff is not op, if you want to apply it also on your character you need the Grandmaster trait Signet of Beastmaster. There are other options around, probably easier one is add directly a new ability but the second idea is also to solve the active ability of Signet of the Hunt, that is not good atm.

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Aridia.3042:

This was originally a discussion about multiple vs single payload for physical damage in the context of the longbow so it’s not about conditional dmg. Not sure why you’re trying to change the subject.

Ursan.7846:

So, one of the assumptions I make (that I did not mention) is that sustained dps usually does more damage over a longer period of time, when compared to burst damage.

One of the yardsticks I use is Killshot vs Volley. It’s the same concept. One big hit vs channeled long hit. Killshot, at lvl 3 adrenaline, does 792 damage in one shot. Volley does 11kittenage after a 2.5s channel time.

What does this mean? It means that in situation A, when the target has more health than the Killshot can burst down, the channeled skill is usually better because it does, overall, more damage. It might not even take that much longer when you consider the channeling time for Killshot.

Also in situation B, if you dodge the killshot, you do 0 damage. If you dodge the first half of Volley, the latter half still hits and it still does a bit of damage. Thus channeled skill is again, better.

Let me distill that for you. Numbers based on Warrior Rifle shots, because it’s the best example we have for single-attack vs channeled attacks.

Situation 1: Where target has more hp than burst dmg.
Killshot + 1 autoattack will hit for 155 + 792 = 947 dmg
Volley will hit for 1160 dmg.

Volley wins.

Situation 2: Where target dodges.
Killshot + 1 autoattack: target will dodge Killshot, hit autoattack. 155 dmg.
Volley, if target dodges half of it, will do 580 dmg.

Volely wins.

Aridia.3042:

Again, sustained DPS is what’s associated with PVE…people care about this, particularly in other mmos because they want the most efficient way to lvl. PVP is not about dragged out fights, it’s about incapacitating the opponent in the quickest way. Which is why spiky moves are preferred.

Bunker builds don’t change this fact because you can’t solo them anyway so when another teammate shows up, it’s still burst that’s preferred to sustained damage when you gang up on him.

I’m not sure what kind of time scale we’re talking about here. In 3 seconds, you’ll fire off a killshot + autoattack, or you can fire off a volley. Volley does more damage over 3 seconds. Volley + autoattack will do more damage over 8 seconds compared to Killshot + autoattack. And 30 seconds. And a minute if you’d like. And this is completely ignoring differences in mobile channeling vs stationary channeling, differences in CD, the need to charge adrenaline (or devote utilities/traits to adrenaline skills) etc. etc.

Note: The reason why I bring up condition damage is because from the sound of it, you’re talking about timescales that range from 30s-1 minute…In which case Channeled vs Single-Shot comparison is really moot, and it becomes more of a condition damage vs physical damage argument. But I digress….

Now, this doesn’t mean I’m saying Volley > Killshot. Just as I rage at how saying “Killshot > volley always,” Volley is not always better than Killshots. In different situations, different skills will be better, and that is my core point.

Aridia.3042:

And Killshot has an 8 second refresh if you missed. It’s not that long…

Volley also has a 8s cooldown, with a trait that all Wars who use Rifles as their main weapon has. Killshot has a 8s cooldown only with a 30pt Grandmaster trait that not all Rifle Wars have. Your point is moot.

EDIT: All numbers taken from GW2 wiki.

Recycle.5493:

Aridia.3042:

Recycle.5493:

Kill shot is never good for 1v1 or small fights, anyone with decent skill can see it coming a mile away. It’s only good for larger fights as you doing the sniping pose is only telling your opponent to apply protection or get ready for a roll, and for his friends to swarm you because you can’t move during that sniping position. Also in PvE when traited piercing arrow, rapid fire is way more useful than a single sniped shot.

Try fear me/bullrush as a set up. Or if you have the trait that turns cripple to immoblize, or bolas, and frenzy, that works great too.

And you’re not sniping properly in WvW if people can jump you easily while rooted or knows you’re aiming at them. If you think those are problems, how will you ever use barrage in a zerg fight?

Guess you didn’t really read my post; also, we’re talking about ranger here, no fear skills or knock downs if we’re taking point blank shot away.

You said killshot. But regardless, canines have knock down/immobilize. Wolf’s F2 has fear also.

Ursan.7846:

Aridia.3042:

This was originally a discussion about multiple vs single payload for physical damage in the context of the longbow so it’s not about conditional dmg. Not sure why you’re trying to change the subject.

Ursan.7846:

So, one of the assumptions I make (that I did not mention) is that sustained dps usually does more damage over a longer period of time, when compared to burst damage.

One of the yardsticks I use is Killshot vs Volley. It’s the same concept. One big hit vs channeled long hit. Killshot, at lvl 3 adrenaline, does 792 damage in one shot. Volley does 11kittenage after a 2.5s channel time.

What does this mean? It means that in situation A, when the target has more health than the Killshot can burst down, the channeled skill is usually better because it does, overall, more damage. It might not even take that much longer when you consider the channeling time for Killshot.

Also in situation B, if you dodge the killshot, you do 0 damage. If you dodge the first half of Volley, the latter half still hits and it still does a bit of damage. Thus channeled skill is again, better.

Let me distill that for you. Numbers based on Warrior Rifle shots, because it’s the best example we have for single-attack vs channeled attacks.

Situation 1: Where target has more hp than burst dmg.
Killshot + 1 autoattack will hit for 155 + 792 = 947 dmg
Volley will hit for 1160 dmg.

Volley wins.

Situation 2: Where target dodges.
Killshot + 1 autoattack: target will dodge Killshot, hit autoattack. 155 dmg.
Volley, if target dodges half of it, will do 580 dmg.

Volely wins.

Aridia.3042:

Again, sustained DPS is what’s associated with PVE…people care about this, particularly in other mmos because they want the most efficient way to lvl. PVP is not about dragged out fights, it’s about incapacitating the opponent in the quickest way. Which is why spiky moves are preferred.

Bunker builds don’t change this fact because you can’t solo them anyway so when another teammate shows up, it’s still burst that’s preferred to sustained damage when you gang up on him.

I’m not sure what kind of time scale we’re talking about here. In 3 seconds, you’ll fire off a killshot + autoattack, or you can fire off a volley. Volley does more damage over 3 seconds. Volley + autoattack will do more damage over 8 seconds compared to Killshot + autoattack. And 30 seconds. And a minute if you’d like. And this is completely ignoring differences in mobile channeling vs stationary channeling, differences in CD, the need to charge adrenaline (or devote utilities/traits to adrenaline skills) etc. etc.

Note: The reason why I bring up condition damage is because from the sound of it, you’re talking about timescales that range from 30s-1 minute…In which case Channeled vs Single-Shot comparison is really moot, and it becomes more of a condition damage vs physical damage argument. But I digress….

Now, this doesn’t mean I’m saying Volley > Killshot. Just as I rage at how saying “Killshot > volley always,” Volley is not always better than Killshots. In different situations, different skills will be better, and that is my core point.

Aridia.3042:

And Killshot has an 8 second refresh if you missed. It’s not that long…

Volley also has a 8s cooldown, with a trait that all Wars who use Rifles as their main weapon has. Killshot has a 8s cooldown only with a 30pt Grandmaster trait that not all Rifle Wars have. Your point is moot.

EDIT: All numbers taken from GW2 wiki.

So you’re saying rifle volley does more than killshot? Sorry I stopped reading right there. You should go play the game sometime.

Mmmk, I think I’ll quit while I’m ahead as I’ve wasted enough time on this thread.

Aridia.3042:

So you’re saying rifle volley does more than killshot? Sorry I stopped reading right there. You should go play the game sometime.

Mmmk, I think I’ll quit while I’m ahead as I’ve wasted enough time on this thread.

I’m actually trying to have a serious discussion here. But thanks for ignoring the majority of my posts, ignoring actual numbers provided by the game, and going for the petty personal insults.

Attached is screenshot of the tooltips of Volley and Killshot, with the same equipment. No, it’s not doctored in any way. You can look at the numbers yourself if you have a warrior. 2610 for Volley, 1784 for Kill Shot.

Besides, even if we are to assume Kill Shot did more damage than Volley, Volley will still be better than Kill Shot in situation #2, where the target dodges. The target will dodge 100% of the Kill Shot damage, but unless he blows 2 dodges, he won’t dodge all of Volley’s damage. This situation will be the same regardless whether Killshot does more damage than Volley or not. Thus your point is moot, and my point still stands.

And this situation is why the statement, “single-load damage is ALWAYS better than channeled damage” is false. “Single-load damage is SOMETIMES better than channeled damage.” is a true statement, and the distinction I’m trying to point out.

you can dodge kill shot or not, i have plenty of time to dodge volley, if i fail dodging kill shot im dead.

and, Aridia, sometimes, i need to wait for 10 sec to use wolfs fear, Pets IA……