Guild Wars 2

This is the discription copied from the GuildWars2 official website (https://www.guildwars2.com/en/the-game/professions/ranger/) which reads as follows…

Rangers rely on a keen eye, a steady hand, and the power of nature itself. Unparalleled archers, rangers are capable of bringing down foes from a distance with their bows. With traps, nature spirits, and a stable of loyal pets at their command, rangers can adapt to any situation.

Please note the key word there “ARCHERS” and the key phrase “WITH THEIR BOWS”

What does this tell us? That the original intention for the Ranger profession is to be a ranged bow class with the option to swap to melee for close quater combat. It does not suggest in any way shape or form that a Ranger should be a melee only class or a support only class!

However, if you look at the current “desired” dungeon build for Ranger, it is both those things! It is a melee-only support role where you bring buffs to the group and some useless dps.

So I direct this question to ArenaNet and it’s developers: Why is the Longbow so useless for DPS?

There are countless other issues with Rangers too, mostly with the pets and their uselessness, but my top priority is to get ArenaNet to realise that Longbow AND Shortbow are both useless as DPS for Ranger! I sincerely hope that they do something about this.

I specifically made a Ranger because I want to play a ranged bow class. Your website tells me that this was the correct choice, however it did not tell me that in chosing this class I would be doing much less DPS than any other classes!

My ideal setup would be Longbow/Shortbow combination because I would love a purely ranged archer class. Unfortunately, this idea is completely unviable in the game at this time. What a shame that you cannot chose to play the game as you want to and that you are pretty much forced into playing a melee-only build or onto another class entirely just to progress in dungeons and fractals.

If you actually look into it a bit more the ranger was initially meant to be two separate classes, not this archer you still cling to. The beast master and the warden/ranger were the two different classes that were merged into one last minute, the result is the current ranger. You will find that regardless of the ranger’s description, rangers excel with melee weapons and conditions, compared to long range power.

I would presume that considering the two classes were merged last minute they also needed a description for the class, which was apparently also made last minute. I suppose you could say that we are unparalleled archers simply because we are the only class with access to both bows. However, as stated previously, we excel with melee and conditions more than ranged DPS, so overall the statement that rangers are indeed the best archers in the game is void, because we aren’t, and we don’t need to be.

Now to actually address your other notes. First and foremost, the longbow isn’t low DPS if you trait right, and is only possibly beaten by warrior LB because warrior LB has access to damaging conditions which add to the over all damage. However talking about straight direct damage, ranger longbow wins that one. Shortbow on the other hand isn’t really meant for the big numbers. It’s more of a hybrid weapon, hence the reason it has access to the conditions and offers more utility than the LB.

You can take advantage of the SB’s speed by taking the Sharpened edges trait which gives you a 66% chance to bleed on crit. Even with moderate condition damage using that combined with poison volley and the bleeds built into the AA itself you can do some nice condi damage. I wouldn’t recommend trying to get ultra high numbers with the shortbow though, like I said it’s a hybrid weapon, not only power.

Now for the pets. Pets used to be borderline useless, but they have come a long way with recent patches. Always make sure you are using the right pet for the right job. Don’t try and get a bear to do some super combo and 1 shot your enemies. I wouldn’t suggest taking a cat to try and soak up some damage either. I would also suggest keeping an eye on your pet’s HP bar (it’s there for a reason) because if your pet dies the CD for swapping increases from 25 seconds to a minute. Ranger’s total damage is shared with the pet, so neglecting it to try and do things quicker, will only slow you down and hurt you more. Learn how to use the pet effectively and you can and will blow through things with ease.

If you came to GW2 looking for an archer, you’re out of luck. You CAN play an archer, but most melee builds will outshine you, that’s simply how the game has been designed. For all classes their melee builds can generally out DPS their ranged builds.

Oh come on. Dungeons are a face roll with any team that has moderate skill. Wanna use bows? Go ahead and put sigils of fragility and strength on both and put 15 in nature magic. Stand there and pepper things with arrows… Who cares? You won’t be amazing, but you won’t make a half decent team wipe either… And no, the dungeon won’t take “hours to complete” unless you really have no concept of what you are doing.

The meta for ranger is fine, but there are many other ranger builds that are completely different that work great in dungeons. LB is mostly for stripping armor and shooting through things. Deal with it. Yeah I get it, all the kiddies that don’t understand differential equations flame you for thinking about anything but DPS (which they guesstimate buy looking and large white numbers). Whatever.

I’ve been reading the forums since launch and watch people go back and forth jib jabbering about DPS but have never seen anyone post an actual number. Is good DPS 3000? Maybe 4000? Think about why no one posts these numbers, then you might get some insight into how to build your ranger.

On a final note, the description is accurate enough. Any decent Ranger should be able to solo female Karkas or anything else with LB and their “loyal companion.” Same goes for Male, but melee is better in this case. Choose the right weapon for the right situation. What’s the big deal? Just because you can use a bow and shoot from a distance doesn’t mean you always should. That would be boring. Some of the best PvP builds make use of SB, spirits, and trusty pets, so I fail to see the inaccuracy you see in the silly description.

How boring this game would be if everyone sat off in the distance arrowing their opponents down, kiting them all over the place. Actually, aggravating is what it would be. So, every class (and many npc’s) have gap closers, which means you better have some melee options available.

Any class using a bow can be called an archer. I don’t believe the unparalled archer statement is not void. While it is true that melee damage is superior to range that doesn’t make range damage useless. There are many situation that melee isn’t possible or practical.

As important as the weapon used is the build. If you not getting the damage you need maybe rethink how your build works in its entirety (including pets and sigils).

Rentapest.6503:

This is the discription copied from the GuildWars2 official website (https://www.guildwars2.com/en/the-game/professions/ranger/) which reads as follows…

Rangers rely on a keen eye, a steady hand, and the power of nature itself. Unparalleled archers, rangers are capable of bringing down foes from a distance with their bows. With traps, nature spirits, and a stable of loyal pets at their command, rangers can adapt to any situation.

Please note the key word there “ARCHERS” and the key phrase “WITH THEIR BOWS”

What does this tell us? That the original intention for the Ranger profession is to be a ranged bow class with the option to swap to melee for close quater combat. It does not suggest in any way shape or form that a Ranger should be a melee only class or a support only class!

However, if you look at the current “desired” dungeon build for Ranger, it is both those things! It is a melee-only support role where you bring buffs to the group and some useless dps.

So I direct this question to ArenaNet and it’s developers: Why is the Longbow so useless for DPS?

There are countless other issues with Rangers too, mostly with the pets and their uselessness, but my top priority is to get ArenaNet to realise that Longbow AND Shortbow are both useless as DPS for Ranger! I sincerely hope that they do something about this.

I specifically made a Ranger because I want to play a ranged bow class. Your website tells me that this was the correct choice, however it did not tell me that in chosing this class I would be doing much less DPS than any other classes!

My ideal setup would be Longbow/Shortbow combination because I would love a purely ranged archer class. Unfortunately, this idea is completely unviable in the game at this time. What a shame that you cannot chose to play the game as you want to and that you are pretty much forced into playing a melee-only build or onto another class entirely just to progress in dungeons and fractals.

After being kicked out of groups and told to “change your character” in several guilds, I am sick and tired of a “Ranger” being anything but a Ranger.

WvW is much worse off than dungeons.

The only place we can shine is PvE – oh goodie… NOT.

My longbow has no conditions unless I sigil them and they don’t do the “dps” damage that any other character has access to somewhere in their possible builds.

You want even more ridiculous? Archers (not Rangers in those keeps, huh?) have longer shots than we have access to – even if I am traited for 1500 ranger, the “Archer” can still hit me PAST my max ranger in WvW.

No, this isn’t a Ranger and yes, the “Archer” is proof that “Rangers” aren’t such at all – I don’t know what to call us, but “Ranger” is outdone by all except the new, less experienced player.

Archon.6480:

I’ve been reading the forums since launch and watch people go back and forth jib jabbering about DPS but have never seen anyone post an actual number. Is good DPS 3000? Maybe 4000? Think about why no one posts these numbers, then you might get some insight into how to build your ranger.

DPS is a bit hard to visualize in this game because of the lack of in game tools for it, and the dungeons being scattered across various level ranges.

“Good DPS” is also going to be very subjective and opinion based, but if I were to pick some arbitrary number in the high end range it’d be 12k since Ele and Thief can hit numbers in that range or even higher.

Check out DnT’s public theorycrafting forum for more info or to ask them questions if you want.

Example DPS numbers: Elementalist, Guardian

Ranger sword by itself without the pet is pretty low, it’s within the range of 7-8k
For all intents and purposes, reaching numbers are like this all the time are impractical and not realistic since it depends on having a good party composition and good buff uptime. 25 might, 2 banners and permafury are relatively easy, but getting that and 25 vuln (25 vuln is easy to burst, but hard to sustain. For the purposes of speed running the short duration of 25 vuln is long enough to blow up bosses) at the same time + spotter/Frost Spirit are hard.

Serraphin Storm.2369:

While it is true that melee damage is superior to range that doesn’t make range damage useless. There are many situation that melee isn’t possible or practical.

I can’t really think of any dungeon/fractal bosses that are impossible to melee, but I will agree with you that some are difficult or not practical to melee for most people.

Edit: Ranger DPS courtesy of Gaung If we define good as 80% of the the class’s expected DPS, then good DPS for rangers would be around 7.5k (including the pet). Basically, good DPS is too vague to give a universal and consistent answer.

When there are other classes that have same range as traited longbow ranger with better utilities, class becomes “useless” for that role, it works more like a “forest druid” with a pet and a axe.

Your problem is assuming that Rangers should be better at Ranged attacks than everyone else, just because the word range is in our name.

TurtleDragon.3108:

Archon.6480:

I’ve been reading the forums since launch and watch people go back and forth jib jabbering about DPS but have never seen anyone post an actual number. Is good DPS 3000? Maybe 4000? Think about why no one posts these numbers, then you might get some insight into how to build your ranger.

DPS is a bit hard to visualize in this game because of the lack of in game tools for it, and the dungeons being scattered across various level ranges.

“Good DPS” is also going to be very subjective and opinion based, but if I were to pick some arbitrary number in the high end range it’d be 12k since Ele and Thief can hit numbers in that range or even higher.

Edit: Ranger DPS courtesy of Gaung If we define good as 80% of the the class’s expected DPS, then good DPS for rangers would be around 7.5k (including the pet). Basically, good DPS is too vague to give a universal and consistent answer.

Guang’s analysis is horribly flawed from the start. It just misleads people into making incorrect conclusions like: Longbow = Useless. Or rangers suck in dungeons. Damage comes from many sources in this game and he’s excluded everything that is interesting. He didn’t factor Might, fury, vulnerability, burning, bleeding, poison, confusion, retaliation, evasion, aura’s, combo fields, combo finishers, cc ability, blocking ability, reflect, multi-target hit scenarios, etc. His disclaimer for his omissions is a cop-out.

Some classes loose damage output when they evade, others attack and evade at the same time, some kinds of damage continue even when you are reviving an ally or rolling around. Each class brings unique factors and each weapon (longbow) has a use. The developers do have damage calculators and certainly take the time to analyse how each class and weapon performs (it’s not guesswork for them). Everything is balanced.

Most of the 2/3 million players don’t care about forming gank parties to see if they can spike down lupicus n kitten before he stands up and just want to make it through the content fast and skillfully and have a good time. Any weapon set or party composition can work. Figuring out how to use the weapons and your team is what matters.

Longbow dps is actually pretty decent at max range, the problem is staying at max range for longer than a few seconds won’t happen (which i’m not really arguing is a bad thing) (i’m not too sure about shortbow dps though, as I don’t care for condi builds)

I’m not exactly a game developer so I’m not going to act like I know the best solution, but I bet it would come from either better closerange dps with bows, or better kiting abilities.

@atheria using logic (oh god, not using logic in a fantasy game!) they are the ones on a big tower, shooting down (keyword: down) at us. they should have better range than us (as they are archer’s, they should have at least 1200 range default, maybe 1500, plus at least 200 since they’re a good bit in the air) also, I haven’t tested, but RTW + EE might be able the match or surpass their range

@chrispy the description “did” say unparalleled..

inb4 “rangers aren’t a bow class” a class called a ranger with no obvious ranged class in an mmo is going to attract bow-users, whether you like it or not. if it’s not a bow class then the problem is that this game lacks a bow class (which in that case, there goes a lot of the playerbase) (and i’m not saying that rangers have to be purely a ranged class. i’m totally ok with swords and such being fine, and I prefer a greatsword as my swap-to anyday.)

EDIT: oh and note, this is coming from a wvw PoV. I don’t really pve and I rarely pvp. if i’m wrong there, then that’s great

warriorjrd.8695:

If you actually look into it a bit more the ranger was initially meant to be two separate classes, not this archer you still cling to. The beast master and the warden/ranger were the two different classes that were merged into one last minute, the result is the current ranger. You will find that regardless of the ranger’s description, rangers excel with melee weapons and conditions, compared to long range power.

I would presume that considering the two classes were merged last minute they also needed a description for the class, which was apparently also made last minute. I suppose you could say that we are unparalleled archers simply because we are the only class with access to both bows. However, as stated previously, we excel with melee and conditions more than ranged DPS, so overall the statement that rangers are indeed the best archers in the game is void, because we aren’t, and we don’t need to be.

Now to actually address your other notes. First and foremost, the longbow isn’t low DPS if you trait right, and is only possibly beaten by warrior LB because warrior LB has access to damaging conditions which add to the over all damage. However talking about straight direct damage, ranger longbow wins that one. Shortbow on the other hand isn’t really meant for the big numbers. It’s more of a hybrid weapon, hence the reason it has access to the conditions and offers more utility than the LB.

You can take advantage of the SB’s speed by taking the Sharpened edges trait which gives you a 66% chance to bleed on crit. Even with moderate condition damage using that combined with poison volley and the bleeds built into the AA itself you can do some nice condi damage. I wouldn’t recommend trying to get ultra high numbers with the shortbow though, like I said it’s a hybrid weapon, not only power.

Now for the pets. Pets used to be borderline useless, but they have come a long way with recent patches. Always make sure you are using the right pet for the right job. Don’t try and get a bear to do some super combo and 1 shot your enemies. I wouldn’t suggest taking a cat to try and soak up some damage either. I would also suggest keeping an eye on your pet’s HP bar (it’s there for a reason) because if your pet dies the CD for swapping increases from 25 seconds to a minute. Ranger’s total damage is shared with the pet, so neglecting it to try and do things quicker, will only slow you down and hurt you more. Learn how to use the pet effectively and you can and will blow through things with ease.

If you came to GW2 looking for an archer, you’re out of luck. You CAN play an archer, but most melee builds will outshine you, that’s simply how the game has been designed. For all classes their melee builds can generally out DPS their ranged builds.

That was a nice and informative post! In your honor, I will start calling the Ranger Profession… Miolm for “merged into one last minute”!

Archon.6480:

snip

I’ll let Guang defend his own work if he wants, but i’ll point out a few things.

He didn’t factor Might, fury, vulnerability, burning, bleeding, poison, confusion, retaliation, evasion, aura’s, combo fields, combo finishers, cc ability, blocking ability, reflect, multi-target hit scenarios, etc. His disclaimer for his omissions is a cop-out.

He did factor might, fury, vuln which are the main things that matter in addition to EA, spotter, bloodlust stacks. For the ranger, things like burning, bleeding, poison and confusion are not included because the optimal rotations do not include those conditions and any combination of weapons/traits/gear/skills will result in lower numbers. (eg. Engineer includes bleed damage)

Longbow = Useless. Or rangers suck in dungeons.

Longbow = useless is an exaggeration ,but longbow isn’t very useful in high end PvE.. In a speed run scenario, longbow is not viable as a main weapon because the damage is not up to par. It still has utility that make it worth bringing in a few scenarios. It has a purpose, which is to be to be a safe ranged power weapon for rangers. It trades away damage for survivability. Whether or not that you need that is up to the player.

I’ve said this a few times in the past, rangers are viable but not optimal in dungeons/fractals.

Any weapon set or party composition can work. Figuring out how to use the weapons and your team is what matters.

This is true, but not every combo is efficient which is what some people are concerned about. Others aren’t. These two playstyles conflict with eachother and each party will have a happier time avoiding eachother.

Another problem is that the optimal player in a PHIW group does not interefere with their goals. He may die or rage alot but that is his fault. The opposite is not true as a PHIW player’s playstyle will conflict with the goals of a optimal group. They will contribute less buffs, less damage, not know strats etc and the other 4 ppl may not be in the mood to carry them.

They really just need to give the longbow play style on the ranger some unique twist that makes them a real option in a group.

Using it currently either has you too far away to be part of the group (combos, buffs, or whatever else) or just too close for it to actually be of any use. The distance “advantage” just isolates you from the group and is not of enough benefit to justify how poorly the weapon performs overall when compared to pretty much anything else. The “armor” stripping capabilities of it as someone put it aren’t actually that useful on their own (and other classes can do this same thing to a much greater effect), but what else then does it have to offer?

Yes, it’s still usable, as in that of you are playing by yourself in pve and just want something that goes pew pew. As soon as you try to use the longbow in any real group that isn’t just screwing around, you can really feel that it’s a poor choice in nearly every situation (with the exception of a few very rare scenarios). That’s the problem I have with it as a weapon and why I demand that it get worked on more intensively.

Should it be the greatest weapon ever to grace the game? No. However, it should be welcomed into essentially any group without much resistance and feel like you are able to contribute with it as much as with any other weapon.

Sollith.3502:

They really just need to give the longbow play style on the ranger some unique twist that makes them a real option in a group.

Using it currently either has you too far away to be part of the group (combos, buffs, or whatever else) or just too close for it to actually be of any use. The distance “advantage” just isolates you from the group and is not of enough benefit to justify how poorly the weapon performs overall when compared to pretty much anything else. The “armor” stripping capabilities of it as someone put it aren’t actually that useful on their own (and other classes can do this same thing to a much greater effect), but what else then does it have to offer?

Yes, it’s still usable, as in that of you are playing by yourself in pve and just want something that goes pew pew. As soon as you try to use the longbow in any real group that isn’t just screwing around, you can really feel that it’s a poor choice in nearly every situation (with the exception of a few very rare scenarios). That’s the problem I have with it as a weapon and why I demand that it get worked on more intensively.

Should it be the greatest weapon ever to grace the game? No. However, it should be welcomed into essentially any group without much resistance and feel like you are able to contribute with it as much as with any other weapon.

It has a twist. It strips Armour from range, and does AoE cripple and hit targets in a line. Don’t need that? Don’t use it. Just watch what happens. If you see your group is kitten poor at keeping vulnerability up, put on the old LB. If they suck at boons, you can even back away from them to save your strength for the inevitable revives they will need.

Of the millions of people who go into dungeons only a small percentage of the pug groups have it all together. I can count the times I’ve run into teams that keep both might and vulnerability up. Most average 10-15 for duration of fights. If you end up In an organized group, it’s a cakewalk anyway. Throw on some swords and have at it. Everything will melt anyway.

You guys always forgive that the +range we have on AutoAttack does not really count anywhere. We’re getting out of buffs/focus, or just being a lootbag for a thief.
And the fact “close range attacks” yelled out to be more risky, that is already compensated with high armor/HP/defense/things, why do our DPS suffer it too?

Most of other MMOs/Fantasy games offer agile and powerful archers, why not GW2 does it too? We’re offically hated ^^ What a conspiracy! Maybe true, we can’t surely know.

So yeah, LB isn’t an ultility weapon, at least shouldn’t be. Thats the role of SB.
Would be nice not to suffer Season#2 through this current state we’re trapped in…

TurtleDragon.3108:

I’ll let Guang defend his own work if he wants, but i’ll point out a few things.

It’s a defenseless, no-good reference.

He did factor might, fury, vuln which are the main things that matter in addition to EA, spotter, bloodlust stacks.

no, he omitted them as (they will magically be there)

For the ranger, things like burning, bleeding, poison and confusion are not included because the optimal rotations do not include those conditions and any combination of weapons/traits/gear/skills will result in lower numbers. (eg. Engineer includes bleed damage)

The analysis to compare damage between classes, assumes some unstated “optimal rotation” where certain kinds of damage are irrelevant because something else will be doing it? I wonder then if those damage sources were factored into the something else? Fuzzy math.

It has a purpose, which is to be to be a safe ranged power weapon for rangers. It trades away damage for survivability.

This is a misuse. It works better at closer range, for obvious reasons. (Yes, I know long range shot does less dmg up close)

I’ve said this a few times in the past, rangers are viable but not optimal in dungeons/fractals.

Never had trouble myself. Have seen tons of less than optimal warriors, engineers, thieves, mesmers, guardians, etc. etc.

PHIW people are selfish by design, the main problem is that most people who think they are playing optimally, are the worst sort of PHIW personalities you run into. Many people bring “optimal” builds into pug groups and blow a gasket when they get wiped repeatedly because the “optimal” build for an organized group can be horrible for your average pug…. And said optimists have not enough skill to adapt to the situation.

Archon.6480:

no, he omitted them as (they will magically be there)

Since the classes scale differently with different buffs, the relative “base” DPS might look different than the actual DPS at any given level of buffs. It’s too much trouble to run them all again but here’s a sampling of how different elements scale with every possible buff active (all boons, banners, spirits, EA, Spotter, full Bloodlust stacks, Force+Night, +10% dungeon potion.)

6/6/0/2/0 walled GS warrior: 13330 direct, 164 bleed, 13494 total
4/5/0/5/0 ranger: 8064 self, 1364 pet = 9428

where certain kinds of damage are irrelevant because something else will be doing it?

It’s irrelevant because it does not exist in the rotation. Sword doesn’t do any conditions by itself except poison which you’re not supposed to use the #3 unless you have to dodge b/c it’s a DPS loss. Conditions also do negligible damage in berserker gear except for the cases where some classes have an abundance of them like engi.

As for the last paragraph, you’re just running into bad players. I have no problems playing the meta builds on the classes I’m comfortable on in PUGs. Not everyone plays this game exclusively with bad PUGs. Since you do not seem to like Guang’s math for some reason, here’s a link to some math i’ve done. It does use a slightly different set of assumptions like no blood lust, Ranger Runes and 100prec/70 ferocity food.

Also, “viable, but not optimal” does not mean rangers are bad.

Longbow has pretty high DPS actually, it’s just that since you’re at high range you can’t give and get buffs from those in melee.

With my build, it can be considered “Oh nice!”, when I’m fully buffed by ranks, food and someone dares to stack mights on me – in WWW/EOTM.

Long Range Shot has certainly earned all the criticism it gets, though the amount of scorn the Longbow — and Rangers in general — get because of this is way out of proportion.

Okay, so you can’t get maximum damage out of Long Range Shot. Should you? It’s only LB1 that is affected by distance — why should anyone expect to get crazy DPS by standing there auto-attacking?

If you are a dungeon farmer looking for repeated speed clears of CoF, optimal DPS at all times is your main concern, and you can’t stomach the thought of your run taking an extra two minutes, then don’t bring your Longbow. For the other 99% of the game, though, you have other things to worry about other than if your auto-attack is doing max possible damage for your profession. You will be just fine.

arkealia.2713:

Longbow has pretty high DPS actually, it’s just that since you’re at high range you can’t give and get buffs from those in melee.

This is actually true surprisingly. Though, it is still not higher DPS than sword for single target or multi target. “High” is also relative to the ranger class’s weapons, so anyone reading this shouldn’t compare it to other classes lol.

Fyrebrand.4859:

Okay, so you can’t get maximum damage out of Long Range Shot.

The bigger problem is that the longbow ranger with a bear contributes very little to a group environment. Contrary to popular belief damage is not the only thing that matters. Support (defensive/offensive/utilty) and control are important as well. Classes need more than just damage to be useful, and your typical longbow ranger with 3 signets and a bear does not contribute anything other than kittenty damage and crappy condition removal. A longbow ranger playing within 600 range with a jungle stalker, frost spirit and spotter is a significant improvement and not that bad, but the damage will still be terrible. The point is, you need to contribute more than just damage. Everyone does damage, but you still have roles to fill in organized groups.

Should you? It’s only LB1 that is affected by distance — why should anyone expect to get crazy DPS by standing there auto-attacking?

There are a few classes where most of the damage comes from the AA chain and you spend 95% of the fight auto attacking. Ranger sword is one of them, the only skill that that’s a DPS increase over Sword#1 is Path of Scars. Dagger necro gets most of it’s damage from auto attacking as well, but you ocassionally press WH#5/Focus#4 but they have long cds so it’s an extra button press every 30s or whatever and then you go back to auto attacking.

Finally just for reference, I took a look at the longbow and tried to come up with some coefficients. Assuming a 3>5>2>1 rotation with Quick Draw and 30s fight I came up with ~0.68 for melee range longbow, and ~0.853 at max range (ignoring projectile travel time). Sword is ~1.053 with a slightly lower weapon damage. Longbow’s problem is positioning and sustained damage (for both single target and AoE), it has decent burst for the first 8-10s of a fight. After that, your DPS drops off a lot.

Swagger.1459:

warriorjrd.8695:

If you actually look into it a bit more the ranger was initially meant to be two separate classes, not this archer you still cling to. The beast master and the warden/ranger were the two different classes that were merged into one last minute, the result is the current ranger. You will find that regardless of the ranger’s description, rangers excel with melee weapons and conditions, compared to long range power.

I would presume that considering the two classes were merged last minute they also needed a description for the class, which was apparently also made last minute. I suppose you could say that we are unparalleled archers simply because we are the only class with access to both bows. However, as stated previously, we excel with melee and conditions more than ranged DPS, so overall the statement that rangers are indeed the best archers in the game is void, because we aren’t, and we don’t need to be.

Now to actually address your other notes. First and foremost, the longbow isn’t low DPS if you trait right, and is only possibly beaten by warrior LB because warrior LB has access to damaging conditions which add to the over all damage. However talking about straight direct damage, ranger longbow wins that one. Shortbow on the other hand isn’t really meant for the big numbers. It’s more of a hybrid weapon, hence the reason it has access to the conditions and offers more utility than the LB.

You can take advantage of the SB’s speed by taking the Sharpened edges trait which gives you a 66% chance to bleed on crit. Even with moderate condition damage using that combined with poison volley and the bleeds built into the AA itself you can do some nice condi damage. I wouldn’t recommend trying to get ultra high numbers with the shortbow though, like I said it’s a hybrid weapon, not only power.

Now for the pets. Pets used to be borderline useless, but they have come a long way with recent patches. Always make sure you are using the right pet for the right job. Don’t try and get a bear to do some super combo and 1 shot your enemies. I wouldn’t suggest taking a cat to try and soak up some damage either. I would also suggest keeping an eye on your pet’s HP bar (it’s there for a reason) because if your pet dies the CD for swapping increases from 25 seconds to a minute. Ranger’s total damage is shared with the pet, so neglecting it to try and do things quicker, will only slow you down and hurt you more. Learn how to use the pet effectively and you can and will blow through things with ease.

If you came to GW2 looking for an archer, you’re out of luck. You CAN play an archer, but most melee builds will outshine you, that’s simply how the game has been designed. For all classes their melee builds can generally out DPS their ranged builds.

That was a nice and informative post! In your honor, I will start calling the Ranger Profession… Miolm for “merged into one last minute”!

Which still has misinformation in it. For example, the Ranger wasn’t merged together from 2 different professions. It was actually 3 different professions (Marksman, Warden, Beastmaster), and apparently other elements of the Ranger were further split into yet more professions originally, and I am going to guess that one of them was a Druid/Nature-y type profession.

So hey, guess what, there is a level of truth surrounding everyone’s problem with the Ranger not bring the best at range. Its just 5 years out of date.

I really wouldn’t mind on LRS damages in case the projectile’s velocity gets +~50% and ROF would be like +~35% faster…

Anyway, arching is always difficult at games. No clue why… They do the same damages as rapier sword stabs IRL, sometimes piercing, sometimes not as deep as a stab. Basicly same deadly, and range compensates the lack of “blockings”. I wish there would be melee blocking on bow, however…

We don’t know what is the exact “offical” view on arching here, but if they really want to make something in-time/next-gen, then most of weapon skills should be dynamic, like LRS AA does a minor facepounch stun when the enemy is actually in your face smiling, or warrior’s axe throw cripple becomes immobilise when there is no distance- so when available and logical.

Otherwise, Warrior LB has “Pinpoint”, which immobilises. Eh?
The only place where LB should be an Utility stuff is at Warriors. Not at Rangers.

RoyalPredator.9163:

I really wouldn’t mind on LRS damages in case the projectile’s velocity gets +~50% and ROF would be like +~35% faster…

Anyway, arching is always difficult at games. No clue why… They do the same damages as rapier sword stabs IRL, sometimes piercing, sometimes not as deep as a stab. Basicly same deadly, and range compensates the lack of “blockings”. I wish there would be melee blocking on bow, however…

We don’t know what is the exact “offical” view on arching here, but if they really want to make something in-time/next-gen, then most of weapon skills should be dynamic, like LRS AA does a minor facepounch stun when the enemy is actually in your face smiling, or warrior’s axe throw cripple becomes immobilise when there is no distance- so when available and logical.

Otherwise, Warrior LB has “Pinpoint”, which immobilises. Eh?
The only place where LB should be an Utility stuff is at Warriors. Not at Rangers.

And a ranger can knockback with lb instead of immobilise. Well, unless it’s spammed as soon as it goes of cooldown of course.

Direct quote from Anet

“Ranger

Multiple pet AI quality-of-life changes and bug fixes are being made for the ranger. *****For example, commanding your pet to use a skill or attack an enemy will now occur instantaneously and will break the creature out of its current action.********

The skill activated by Keen Edge is now considered a Survival skill and will benefit from other traits that impact this skill type."
————————————————————————————
The above quote directly from Anet states that our pet would be fixed. As above and I have the website page saved as well as screenshotted, our pets are “now” supposed to be instant and I haven’t seen a single instance of “instant” anything for any of my pets unless I am in PvE.

Please, people need to separate what is going on here.

In PvE I can walk all over your characters, stand with the heavies and down a Champ all by my lonesome.

In PvP I used to be very utilitarian with groups – even wanted for the first 7 months of PvP.

Now, move to WvW, the most ignored area of the game and there are maybe one or two BUILDS in the whole game I can take on alone.

Our game mechanics for all skills are broken, bent, not working, working sometimes, working none of the time or just plain ???? from not being able to make a pet even move at times.

I have screenshots and screenshots of my pet not moving, not attacking and the f2 button NEVER going off in a protracted fight.

I trait for 1500 and get “some” bow skills that go that far blowing that trait for more useful, albeit much shorter distance, but at least some damage is done by piercing and other traits…

I was a condi Ranger before the April 15 nerf. Now I can’t get my condi above 1700 – it was so close to 2k.

And condi removal for others has taken my skills and made them useless unless I am in a larger group with some support.

Tonight it took five of us three times dying and running back to take down one thief – and we still couldn’t do it twice – it was one time.. he mistimed something we didn’t kill him, HE DID.

Anet needs to look at the gameplay and realize that some are far more advanatage “alone” than others and when you are alone on the map and can’t play a thief… that isn’t “play your way” at all.

I will not play a thief and I am not a good warrior.

Give us builds that can be played in WvW.

The thing is, if you got higher DPS being ranged, why would you go melee?

Xae Isareth.1364:

The thing is, if you got higher DPS being ranged, why would you go melee?

Better utility, support, defensive stats, and simply less-selfish kits or ones which simply perform differently in regards to damage output.

What’s scarier, two warriors bumping each other 25 stacks of might each forever, or two rangers which deal the same damage at only at max range as the warriors without the might stacks, who are also inherently squishier, provide less CC, less mobility, and due to the extremely high number of gap closers, are very easy to reach? The warriors.

I think a lot of people would be perfectly content with the thief having access to a longbow and 1500 traited range with good damage numbers despite the massive defensive hits just because it would let DPS archers do their thing.

The longbow hits pretty hard, I have no idea why anyone woulc complain about it. Has some nice tools on it as well to help out with a situation.

DPS isnt everything. Most warriors have two states, the first half of 100b OOOPS now downed. Not to mention, this whole concept of warriors having the most damage is rubbish, elementalist and engie can pump out more damage whilst bringing plenty of fun kitten for the group.

Traited up the longbow will hit for about 3k on the auto attacks, plus your pet is pushing in some damage, all in its not actually that bad at all. Plus your away from the action so you can rez people and make sure to catch any problems. Big spike damage, just point blank that mofo to stop that. Ranger has plenty of options if your willing to look for them.

Just avoid those online build sites, build one that makes sense to you and go with it.

Try this out sometime, it’s actually a lot of fun.
Put your skills on Quickening Zephyr and Sharpening Stone.
Tap Quickening, drop barrage and then tap sharpening stone and toss out rapid fire. You have to do this in a small window, but I’ve always had wonderful results with it. This is what I do when I know I need to damage something hard and fast. Toss out the jungle stalker’s might buff and you’re a force to be reckoned with.
Granted, what works for me may not work for everyone, but at least give it a try.

As a ranger, no, I have never hit the numbers a warrior has. However, I don’t usually lick the floor as much as they do either. I think rangers were meant to be the agility class of the medium armor sets. We’re not really meant to stack and be up close, but we have the option. However with a longbow more damage is done way across the room so it discourages this. The only reason I ever switch to my sword is because of the recharge rate on longbow skills.

This would be my only complaint against the longbow really. Changing it would be a great improvement to the class. The recharge rate makes me stand there and wait about 10 seconds before I can deal any real damage again unless I hit the skills in a very specific order, especially when I have the quickening zephyr mentioned above.

DaliIndica.9041:

The longbow hits pretty hard, I have no idea why anyone woulc complain about it. Has some nice tools on it as well to help out with a situation..

The positioning required for it to hit hard isn’t helpful to anyone in your party. You’re also picking a lower damage weapon on a class that does low DPS already.

Teknogeddon.4523:

Try this out sometime, it’s actually a lot of fun.
Put your skills on Quickening Zephyr and Sharpening Stone.
Tap Quickening, drop barrage and then tap sharpening stone and toss out rapid fire. You have to do this in a small window, but I’ve always had wonderful results with it. This is what I do when I know I need to damage something hard and fast. Toss out the jungle stalker’s might buff and you’re a force to be reckoned with.
Granted, what works for me may not work for everyone, but at least give it a try.

I don’t see what’s so good about 5 stacks of bleed on 45 second cd on a weapon that is primarily power. Sic-em and Signet of the Wild are much better cooldowns for DPS.

- Useless? I think not

aussieheals.6843:

Useless? I think not

Nice lowrank foes

I dont do dungeons. They ceased to be appealing to me the first time someone snickered at me and told me to take a hike for using LB. I have other classes that are acceptable for doing dungeons should I need to scratch that itch.

For my LB ranger I have found them to be devastating in WvW. I can hit things 1500 away and most things just wither and die before they get to me. Most classes get about halfway to me, realize they will be dead before they get there and they try to run which also does not work. Sure if something gets close due to my inattentiveness or clumsy play I can get in trouble. However Id say about half the time I can beat them outright with greatsword or use it to create distance to go back to longbow.

The ranger class is by no means bad. Many here try to turn it into a warrior with a pet but thats not where it shines. It really is a killing machine when you can dictate engagements from afar with a longbow. True, you wont get into dungeons unless you use some dorky sword/horn/GS build but I feel your best bet is just to play another class for dungeons. Lots of other classes handle that in your face/buff game better than a ranger can anyway. Instead, build a ranger for what it excels at which is killing from downtown, take it to WvW and have fun.

I love the longbow ranger. Dont care what anyone thinks of it. I play it my way which may not be popular but I do love them for what they are. Playing a ranger any other way just seems blasphemous to me.

If you want to use LB in PvE, make sure you’ve gone full zerk.

Primary in sword melee, but keep that LB on reserve for:

1. Starting attacks vs stacks with Barrage
2. Inflicting Vulnerability
3. Stealthing to break aggro
4. Stepping back to heal or dodge an AoE, for that 10 secs that you’re stuck on LB you can deal some good damage with Barrage + Rapid Fire

If you can keep your pet alive and attacking, that moment where Barrage and Rapid Fire are hitting you could be doing more damage than during your standard melee auto attack.

I just go shortbow in dungeons if I need to range.

Longbow have one big problem: there’s not a skill that deal more damage than the auto attack. We have 1) auto-attack. 2) “dps” skill that deal lesser damage than auto-attack but inflict vulnerability. 3) Hide. (a utility skill, more than a dps skill) 4) Knock back skill. good. 5) AoE skill that inflict cripple but whit less dps than auto-attack.
Solution:
increase the damage of Rapid Fire by 50% and give away the vulnerability from that skill. Then take Hunter’s Shot, take away hide and put 5 stack of vulnerability + 50% increased damage skill and 2 sec of hide (or something like that).
Then we obtain a good dps skill 2 and a good damage+vulnerability+hide on skill 3.
That can increase the efficence of Longbow.

Kind of Yup.
Rapid Fire meant to be the same burst than in other games or at other classes. It’s way way slooooow. Even AutoAttack is slooooow. Not even like we could use vulnerability on any skill else than AA, where it has a reason to use and build up, hardening the pressure at each shot by time…

I know you guys are talking about long range and/or PvP, but some of the longbow skills do more damage than the auto attack.

Longbow have one big problem: there’s not a skill that deal more damage than the auto attack. .

Rapid Fire does more damage than the auto attack at less than 1000 range. Barrage is also DPS increase at all ranges (if you actually land every hit)

The problem with the Longbow isn’kittens DPS, but rather the fact that it’s ranged. To make the most out of it, you need to be at the biggest range possible from the target, which completely messes up the standard dungeon “strategies”.
I’d say it’s rather good for PvP and WvW, though.