Guild Wars 2

Something needs to be done about it. I might as well kill myself on a guardian when 2 of my important skills on the weapon can snipe out so much of my health.

And because power builds for rangers have no way for coping with boon uptime, it means I did more damage to myself channeling rapidfire on a guardian with high protection uptime than I did to him in between the blocks, burning on blocks, and protection plus passive healing he has.

Pretty much every team in WvW has a crapload of guardians, and most of them run retal +boonspam high toughness builds.

Rangers need a way to deal with boons in power specs and retaliation needs an ICD.

Yeah, I do crap damage as well to boon spam eles and engineers and mesmers but at least they don’t have such high uptime on retaliation, so at least I’m not killing myself while doing crap damage to them.

Full berserker here, btw. I’m at the ceiling in terms of how much damage can be done, and it just isn’t enough against boon spam.

I feel forced to run just a condi build since the damage loss is trivial given the low power coefficients and the fact that condis ignore protection spam.

Retaliation needs to be hard capped. Having an ICD would be good also.

It’s clearly broken when you have people on the forum telling you not to use your AOE skills on a group.

These kinds of play mechanic is cheesy and have no business being effective outside of a 1 vs 1 fight.

Of course, retaliation is very effective against channeled skills.

Um, this problem isn’t a problem. If you’d actually LOOK at the opponent before using a skill, you’d know if he had retal up. Also note that retal doesn’t do that much damage, on it’s own. (Barrage against a group with retal being a special case.)

I think this may be one of the very few legitimate “L2P” problems I’ve seen on the forums.

This is suddenly reminding me of people complaining about feed back and wall of reflection.

I wouldn’t mind Retal if it wasn’t AOE, AOE retal though just supports bigger zergers.

Since the only way to actually counter large zergs is lots and lots of AOE damage.

stale.9785:

Um, this problem isn’t a problem. If you’d actually LOOK at the opponent before using a skill, you’d know if he had retal up. Also note that retal doesn’t do that much damage, on it’s own. (Barrage against a group with retal being a special case.)

I think this may be one of the very few legitimate “L2P” problems I’ve seen on the forums.

Except this is most likely zerg to zerg combat. It’s not L2P when you don’t have the time to click on every single enemy target and it’s two zergs facing off. IMO retaliation should NEVER hit back harder than the damage being dished to the person. I’m personally a bit tired of hitting somebody for 100 damage and getting 300 back right to the face due to retal. -_-

Certain skills need to get a Retaliation resistance. Something like 15% resistance to retaliation, just so it’s kept in sane levels.

stale.9785:

Um, this problem isn’t a problem. If you’d actually LOOK at the opponent before using a skill, you’d know if he had retal up. Also note that retal doesn’t do that much damage, on it’s own. (Barrage against a group with retal being a special case.)

I think this may be one of the very few legitimate “L2P” problems I’ve seen on the forums.

Sure enough, there’s always one in every thread of this kind.

Yep, just don’t use AOE on groups when retaliation is up. There you go Anet, I guess I wasn’t suppose to use AOE on groups, can you guys just delete AOEs from the skill bars?

/facepalm

Retaliation should be removed from WvW altogether. I can think of no other game where you are punished for shooting at an opponent while the opponent is rewarded for grouping in a nice aoe-able ball and getting shot. Completely counterintuitive and frustrating to deal with.

This is nobody’s idea of a fun time in PVP:

stale.9785:

Um, this problem isn’t a problem. If you’d actually LOOK at the opponent before using a skill, you’d know if he had retal up. Also note that retal doesn’t do that much damage, on it’s own. (Barrage against a group with retal being a special case.)

I think this may be one of the very few legitimate “L2P” problems I’ve seen on the forums.

Guardians can get near perma retaliation times with the right build and combo fields+ leaps and blasts on their own symbols and a 25% extra retal duration trait.

You’re being stupid if you suggest I should wait well over 15 seconds before attacking a guardian while he’s trying to kill me.

Zenith.7301:

stale.9785:

Um, this problem isn’t a problem. If you’d actually LOOK at the opponent before using a skill, you’d know if he had retal up. Also note that retal doesn’t do that much damage, on it’s own. (Barrage against a group with retal being a special case.)

I think this may be one of the very few legitimate “L2P” problems I’ve seen on the forums.

Guardians can get near perma retaliation times with the right build and combo fields+ leaps and blasts on their own symbols and a 25% extra retal duration trait.

You’re being stupid if you suggest I should wait well over 15 seconds before attacking a guardian while he’s trying to kill me.

Since i’m pretty sure that even with the extra time from the trait, you can max it out at about 11 seconds, for an absolute max of 400 damage per strike… it’s really not that big a deal. If your build can’t take 4400 damage in the course of 11 seconds, that’s very much on you. If the damage is that big a deal to you, then wait for the little icon to go away, while you kite.

Against a whole zerg, well, it’s a different issue. I play ele, ranger and guardian – not once has retaliation been a significant factor in whether I win or lose. I’ve eaten retal damage, of course, specially while fighting from the walls of a keep, but never enough to worry about. Annoying, but not deadly.

Seriously, the whole thread IS a l2p issue. (This is maybe the second time I’ve said that about anything in almost a year of gw2. Not a knee jerk reaction – just honest opinion about what’s going being complained about.)

Also note, the OP is griping about retaliation when he’s fighting a single target, using a 10 hit channeled skill. This is why I say it’s a L2P issue. When someone who rolls glass cannon complains about taking damage… well, carry on, there’s nothing to see here.

What I find messed up is that if I use barrage on a zerg, I can easily get hit upwards of 10,000. The only way to avoid this is to not attack at all, and that is unreasonable.

They need to tone this down. We shouldn’t have to use a healing skill or retreat in fear of our lives just because we used barrage or a well lined rapid fire with piercing arrows.

Bri.8354:

What I find messed up is that if I use barrage on a zerg, I can easily get hit upwards of 10,000. The only way to avoid this is to not attack at all, and that is unreasonable.

They need to tone this down. We shouldn’t have to use a healing skill or retreat in fear of our lives just because we used barrage or a well lined rapid fire with piercing arrows.

Or you could simply play attention and stop attacking the moment you think there is retaliation? ofc not saying they shouldnt nerf it either.

Best nerf for retal I can think of is making it a % of the damage taken returned to the player, like maybe anywhere from 25-50% of the damage (I’m leaning towards 33%). There, we’ve made it less OP against the classes that hit more for less damage and more powerful against those who like to spike damage.

silvermember.8941:

Or you could simply play attention and stop attacking the moment you think there is retaliation? ofc not saying they shouldnt nerf it either.

When the enemy knows they are going to be in combat, there is almost always retaliation. There’s no way to accurately tell how much you are going to get hit by, and if they are trying to push into your group, you don’t really have a choice; its either use barrage and potentially get hit by retaliation, or just stand there and let them kill everyone.

yup. barrage suck 2/3 of my healt bar. i like, when i defend a tower, shoot barrage on the zerg, somebody hit me once while channeling and i die :p
but thats a good idea if the retal deal dammage based on skill power. less spike dammage builds, more brain!

stale.9785:

Zenith.7301:

stale.9785:

Um, this problem isn’t a problem. If you’d actually LOOK at the opponent before using a skill, you’d know if he had retal up. Also note that retal doesn’t do that much damage, on it’s own. (Barrage against a group with retal being a special case.)

I think this may be one of the very few legitimate “L2P” problems I’ve seen on the forums.

Guardians can get near perma retaliation times with the right build and combo fields+ leaps and blasts on their own symbols and a 25% extra retal duration trait.

You’re being stupid if you suggest I should wait well over 15 seconds before attacking a guardian while he’s trying to kill me.

Since i’m pretty sure that even with the extra time from the trait, you can max it out at about 11 seconds, for an absolute max of 400 damage per strike… it’s really not that big a deal. If your build can’t take 4400 damage in the course of 11 seconds, that’s very much on you. If the damage is that big a deal to you, then wait for the little icon to go away, while you kite.

Against a whole zerg, well, it’s a different issue. I play ele, ranger and guardian – not once has retaliation been a significant factor in whether I win or lose. I’ve eaten retal damage, of course, specially while fighting from the walls of a keep, but never enough to worry about. Annoying, but not deadly.

Seriously, the whole thread IS a l2p issue. (This is maybe the second time I’ve said that about anything in almost a year of gw2. Not a knee jerk reaction – just honest opinion about what’s going being complained about.)

Also note, the OP is griping about retaliation when he’s fighting a single target, using a 10 hit channeled skill. This is why I say it’s a L2P issue. When someone who rolls glass cannon complains about taking damage… well, carry on, there’s nothing to see here.

Yup, about as smart as I thought. 11 seconds of retal lol, who are you trying to kid here.

4400 damage on top of burning on top of the physical portion of the actual attacks. On a 17k HP pool. That’s a quarter of your HP from just passive boon uptime.

And what the hell are you supposed to use on the longbow, the autoattack at <1000 range? Are you seriously this thick?

Nope, just trolling.

Change retaliation to deal damage based on a percentage of damage received.

Simple as.

Retal should be single target in the first place, its designed to Help zergs stack and counter their one Counter…which is bad for any type of Mass PvP game.

RyuDragnier.9476:

Best nerf for retal I can think of is making it a % of the damage taken returned to the player, like maybe anywhere from 25-50% of the damage (I’m leaning towards 33%). There, we’ve made it less OP against the classes that hit more for less damage and more powerful against those who like to spike damage.

No. It should be hard capped at one target with ICD. Then it would become a L2P issue. So unless the target sits under your whole barrage and eats the whole channel, you won’t even get the full feedback. Ever tried barraging a moving zerg when a new target runs through the barrage in every wave of the channel? Even better, try it with QZ.

The whole point of AOE is to hit as many people as possible to cause more damage. Unless you can use it as such reasonably, it’s clearly broken.

another “easy” fix, is to give rangers protection for the duration of the entire barrage. Sure it IS a powerful boon. And it will last a long time. But the price we pay when rooting ourselves in order to hit a large group of players heavily outweighs the gain.

Prysin.8542:

another “easy” fix, is to give rangers protection for the duration of the entire barrage. Sure it IS a powerful boon. And it will last a long time. But the price we pay when rooting ourselves in order to hit a large group of players heavily outweighs the gain.

I don’t think protection reduces retaliation damage.

If they make retaliation granting skills (all 12 of them) target only the caster, you’d need to rework the 3 Guardian skills that grant area Retaliation, plus the combo fields, to do something else useful.

Zenith, the actual numbers for length would be 20s for one single target skill (grants to the caster) with boon duration runes and the trait to extend it. Every other application will max at roughly 10s. So i lowballed the potential single target application of it. My bad.

Those asking for ICD on it’s damage, you may as well ask for it’s outright removal.
You want a skill that’s supposed to deter people from attacking to only proc twice (once untraited/runed) for it’s whole duration? On 30-60 second cooldowns. Yeah, no.

The solution, if you accept that retaliation is a problem (which I don’t, but for argument’s sake) would be to make it a % of damage returned, instead of based on the caster’s power.

Like I said earlier, I play a few classes, and have never had an issue with retaliation – I don’t run a build designed for high retaliation uptime, either, so I have no horse in this race. I just see the whole complaint as being as stupid as people complaining about being hurt by attacking wall of reflection or the feedback bubble.

Right, so you want entire builds erased from WvW because half of the kitten wvw population or more runs stacking retal high toughness guardians in their frontlines.

Just say it, you want longbow rangers extinct. Because if you’re telling longbow rangers they should with 10-20 seconds to attack in order to not lose 1/3-1/4 of their health, you pretty much make them moot compared to a necromancer or ele who puts out far greater damage without anywhere close as damage taken back.

There’s a reason why much of wvw teamfights revovlve around 6-7 guardians and warriors and then the backline eles with a couple of necros. Nobody wants rangers in teamfights.

Zenith, dude. I AM a longbow ranger. Except, I have the wit to change weapons/targets whenever I need to, and I’m not dense enough to go full glass cannon in WvW and then complain about taking damage.

stale.9785:

Zenith, dude. I AM a longbow ranger. Except, I have the wit to change weapons/targets whenever I need to, and I’m not dense enough to go full glass cannon in WvW and then complain about taking damage.

Right, I’m sure on your little knight gear ranger you’re as useful in a teamfight as a scepter/torch mesmer.

Done with you.

Anyone with any sense of balance would be able to tell you that Retal being AOE in this game is just stupid an unbalanced. Ignoring the issues of Rangers, it makes Large Numbers stronger then Smaller Number, which seems to be a theme of what Anet is going for….Which is why WvW is so bloody awful in general in this game in comparison to previous games that didn’t overreward the zerg like Anet has.

GW2 will go down as a prime example of how you never should handle Massive Scale PvP, Anyone who gave Warhammer Online crap for their 2 way system should be heaping praise on it now if they play GW2..Cause GW2 WvW is just awful.

i think retailation is a very good thing! its just need a little shine. they made us one (and week) skill against larger groups, but we cant use that only one skill, because it kill the caster. yesterday i went down 3 times just because my own barrage. that was 3 of the 5 times when i died yesterday…

Zenith.7301:

stale.9785:

Zenith, dude. I AM a longbow ranger. Except, I have the wit to change weapons/targets whenever I need to, and I’m not dense enough to go full glass cannon in WvW and then complain about taking damage.

Right, I’m sure on your little knight gear ranger you’re as useful in a teamfight as a scepter/torch mesmer.

Done with you.

I hit 3k+ auto crits with a sword in knight’s gear. Suddenly I’m not useful?

Xsorus.2507:

I wouldn’t mind Retal if it wasn’t AOE, AOE retal though just supports bigger zergers.

Since the only way to actually counter large zergs is lots and lots of AOE damage.

If your talking about large scale combat, then bring large scale combat tactics to counter them. Mesmers and Necromancers can easily strip all those boons. They are using teamwork to produce these AoE Retaliation with high uptime, try using teamwork to negate that AoE Retaliation.

If you insist on using scissors when you already know your opponent is going to use rock, then you deserve to lose, and no one cares about your whining that rock in imba because scissors can’t beat it. There are people from pretty much every class that whine about how their spammy attacks get countered by Retaliation. Deal with it.

Surbrus.6942:

Xsorus.2507:

I wouldn’t mind Retal if it wasn’t AOE, AOE retal though just supports bigger zergers.

Since the only way to actually counter large zergs is lots and lots of AOE damage.

If your talking about large scale combat, then bring large scale combat tactics to counter them. Mesmers and Necromancers can easily strip all those boons. They are using teamwork to produce these AoE Retaliation with high uptime, try using teamwork to negate that AoE Retaliation.

If you insist on using scissors when you already know your opponent is going to use rock, then you deserve to lose, and no one cares about your whining that rock in imba because scissors can’t beat it. There are people from pretty much every class that whine about how their spammy attacks get countered by Retaliation. Deal with it.

Rofl, there is absolutely zero way you to strip that many boons off that many people and actually get Retal.

Guardians basically fart out Retal, with little to no problem doing it.

Quarktastic.1027:

Zenith.7301:

stale.9785:

Zenith, dude. I AM a longbow ranger. Except, I have the wit to change weapons/targets whenever I need to, and I’m not dense enough to go full glass cannon in WvW and then complain about taking damage.

Right, I’m sure on your little knight gear ranger you’re as useful in a teamfight as a scepter/torch mesmer.

Done with you.

I hit 3k+ auto crits with a sword in knight’s gear. Suddenly I’m not useful?

With high might stacks, considering my sword auto in full berserker without might don’t go above 1.7k crits.

Stop exaggerating your use, my pvt guardian with ruby orbs can get those auto crits with barely any might on and bring a ton of boons and condi cleanse and CC to boot.

Surbrus.6942:

Xsorus.2507:

I wouldn’t mind Retal if it wasn’t AOE, AOE retal though just supports bigger zergers.

Since the only way to actually counter large zergs is lots and lots of AOE damage.

If your talking about large scale combat, then bring large scale combat tactics to counter them. Mesmers and Necromancers can easily strip all those boons. They are using teamwork to produce these AoE Retaliation with high uptime, try using teamwork to negate that AoE Retaliation.

If you insist on using scissors when you already know your opponent is going to use rock, then you deserve to lose, and no one cares about your whining that rock in imba because scissors can’t beat it. There are people from pretty much every class that whine about how their spammy attacks get countered by Retaliation. Deal with it.

Xsorus’s response to this amount of ….wrong seems understated.

Well of corruptions is a 40 sec cd that removes 2 boons per second for 5 seconds, so long as people stand in it. Ditto for null field.

Our group, as many do, runs 7 guardians. 3 necros 2 mesmers. The guardians give the group retal on a 24 sec cd with SYG, their symbols grant retal, and the ethereal fields the mesmers just laid down do as well.

On top of it all, the guardians and the warriors and the eles are giving a group about 6 boons pretty constantly.

Even if you brought the same amount of necromancers/mesmers as you do guardians, they would still be unable to keep up with the retal and boon spam, for the simple reason that the cooldowns for the guardians are lower, and there are low cd combo fields for retal while there are no similar combo fields to counter boon spam.

And no WvW team in their right mind will ever run 6-7 necros/mesmers considering how flimsy and easily trained they are. A group isn’t going to add to the list of backliners it needs to babysit on top of thestaff eles.

I am pretty sure Mesmer still has the title for being able to solo perma retaliation. I could be mistaken but pretty sure we still beat Guardians.

Xsorus.2507:

…

Zenith.7301:

…

Perhaps my choice of words wasn’t the best. True you cannot fully remove all those boons, Necros and Mesmers are still going to be able to remove a lot of boons, thus reducing the amount of retaliation damage coming back at their side.

As for Barrage still being a fruitless suicide attack attack for Ranger… well that’s not a problem with retaliation, that’s just that Barrage is not the ability you want to use as it is easily countered by retaliation. If anything needs a change, it is on the Ranger side, not retaliation. Either rework Barrage or give the Ranger another AoE ranged attack… otherwise just know that Barrage is not the best skill to use against organized groups… and it is simply just yet another of the Ranger’s shortfalls.

No Surbrus, that’s a problem with retaliation. It’s punishing DPS attacks, which Rangers, Engineers, and Thieves almost have 100% of just due to how fast most of our weapons (or kits for engineer), hit. It basically singles out the medium armor classes, which is a bad setup IMO. The problem is entirely with retaliation, and retaliation needs a nerf against the DPS classes for this…while being buffed against the burst builds. Meaning a set damage percentage shot back. Besides, if you think that changing it to a percentage is any less dangerous for the DPS classes, you’re wrong.

Let’s do the math right now. Barrage hits 12 times on up to 5 enemies. That’s 60 times. Let’s say all of those enemies have retaliation that will hit back for 300 damage. That’s 18K right there, enough to almost instantly down any ranger that casts it. That’s too powerful.

Let’s say we change retal to 33% of the damage taken, and that a ranger somehow is doing 300 damage with each hit of Barrage. Meaning they’re taking 60 hits of 100 HP off of themselves. That’s 6K damage to ourselves, which is still nothing to sneeze at. Hell, even if it was changed to 50% damage returned, that’s still 9K damage, which is again a serious chunk of our health, but even then nowhere near as bad as before.

Again, you’re trying to beat Rock with Scissors there. The elaboration about how Scissors gets utterly demolished by Rock is not the most compelling of arguments. This reminds me of those Rangers and Thieves unloading all their projectiles into Walls of Reflection and Feedbacks then complaining about how those reflect skills are so imba because they always result in that player’s death.

The entire point of retaliation, is to punish volume of attacks, and it does this very well. The problem is that some classes don’t necessarily have easy access to hard hitting attacks that aren’t multi hit attacks. Basically a Ranger fighting at range only has Scissors to fight against Rock. You shouldn’t be calling for Rock to be nerfed, you should be asking for more options of bringing your own Paper to the challenge. Alternatively just bring Paper next time when you know your opponent is going to be playing Rock again.

tl;dr: Retaliation doesn’t need a nerf, but Rangers could certainty use buffs and more options.

Zenith.7301:

With high might stacks, considering my sword auto in full berserker without might don’t go above 1.7k crits.
Stop exaggerating your use, my pvt guardian with ruby orbs can get those auto crits with barely any might on and bring a ton of boons and condi cleanse and CC to boot.

We get it, you hate rangers and everything that isn’t berserker gear/ruby orbs/scholar runes.

And you’re doing something wrong if you aren’t hitting above 2k in full berserker gear. Either that or you’re hitting something with protection up.

also, 3k auto crits on a PVT guardian? Who’s exaggerating now?

Surbrus.6942:

Again, you’re trying to beat Rock with Scissors there. The elaboration about how Scissors gets utterly demolished by Rock is not the most compelling of arguments. This reminds me of those Rangers and Thieves unloading all their projectiles into Walls of Reflection and Feedbacks then complaining about how those reflect skills are so imba because they always result in that player’s death.

The entire point of retaliation, is to punish volume of attacks, and it does this very well. The problem is that some classes don’t necessarily have easy access to hard hitting attacks that aren’t multi hit attacks. Basically a Ranger fighting at range only has Scissors to fight against Rock. You shouldn’t be calling for Rock to be nerfed, you should be asking for more options of bringing your own Paper to the challenge. Alternatively just bring Paper next time when you know your opponent is going to be playing Rock again.

tl;dr: Retaliation doesn’t need a nerf, but Rangers could certainty use buffs and more options.

Retaliation is a broken mechanic in that it deals fixed damage. It doesn’t punish you for damaging your opponent. It punishes you for hitting your opponent. The more you hit them, the more damage you take.

Retaliation is a hard counter to persistent AoE skills, and persistent AoE skills are the only counter to zerg warfare.

Ranger cry because we have few aoe skills. Then you cry becuase there is a counter to aoe skills. We have 1 maybe two aoe skill(s). There is nothing wrong with retaliation. The idea that a single player can hit a group of players with one skill and another player can punish or protect you for doing so is balanced.

Other classes have far more aoe skills. Big damage has risks. You rolled your dice accept the outcome fate has given you.

This isn’t a L2P issue this is accept the consiquences of your actions issue. I take that back it is also a L2p issue you can negate all the damage from retaliation If its that big of a deal.

Surbrus.6942:

Again, you’re trying to beat Rock with Scissors there. The elaboration about how Scissors gets utterly demolished by Rock is not the most compelling of arguments. This reminds me of those Rangers and Thieves unloading all their projectiles into Walls of Reflection and Feedbacks then complaining about how those reflect skills are so imba because they always result in that player’s death.

The entire point of retaliation, is to punish volume of attacks, and it does this very well. The problem is that some classes don’t necessarily have easy access to hard hitting attacks that aren’t multi hit attacks. Basically a Ranger fighting at range only has Scissors to fight against Rock. You shouldn’t be calling for Rock to be nerfed, you should be asking for more options of bringing your own Paper to the challenge. Alternatively just bring Paper next time when you know your opponent is going to be playing Rock again.

tl;dr: Retaliation doesn’t need a nerf, but Rangers could certainty use buffs and more options.

If I see a Wall of Reflection, I can stop attacking mid way, If I cast barrage, I don’t know they have retal I’ve already started casting it, Even then…We’re talking about an ability that punishes AOE damage in a game where Zergs are absolutely overpowered, and way to rewarded as it is…The one thing that counters Zergs is mass AOE, something this game doesn’t seem to like so the mouth breather’s can feel good about themselves rolling over smaller numbers.

Serraphin Storm.2369:

Ranger cry because we have few aoe skills. Then you cry becuase there is a counter to aoe skills. We have 1 maybe two aoe skill(s). There is nothing wrong with retaliation. The idea that a single player can hit a group of players with one skill and another player can punish or protect you for doing so is balanced.

Other classes have far more aoe skills. Big damage has risks. You rolled your dice accept the outcome fate has given you.

This isn’t a L2P issue this is accept the consiquences of your actions issue. I take that back it is also a L2p issue you can negate all the damage from retaliation If its that big of a deal.

No one has a problem with Retal on single targets, But if you think this game needs more hand outs for large zergs you’re kidding yourself. They’ve already dumbed the game down enough, Rewarding Zergs stacking on top of one another to give everyone a bloody damage shield with no ICD is just silly..Not Down System silly, but still proves why this game will not be taken seriously by most good pvpers

Serraphin Storm.2369:

Ranger cry because we have few aoe skills. Then you cry becuase there is a counter to aoe skills. We have 1 maybe two aoe skill(s). There is nothing wrong with retaliation. The idea that a single player can hit a group of players with one skill and another player can punish or protect you for doing so is balanced.

Other classes have far more aoe skills. Big damage has risks. You rolled your dice accept the outcome fate has given you.

This isn’t a L2P issue this is accept the consiquences of your actions issue. I take that back it is also a L2p issue you can negate all the damage from retaliation If its that big of a deal.

Can you? How you gonna negate retaliation dmg from barrage when you can’t cancel the skill? Also you don’t rlly understand the problem. It has nothing to do with how big dmg you do to enemies, elementalist can do a big one time AoE dmg and get negligible dmg from retal. Ranger skills are channeled and that’s the pain. Also dmg from retaliation depends on power of the one who gave retaliation. So I can hit 10x 5 targets for 150dmg each, which is total of 7500 dmg, but can get back 20000 dmg.

Also it’s boon so I can’t cleans it (unlike confusion for example), I can’t dodge it, I can’t block it, i can’t counter it with “invulnerability skill” (signet of stone).

Retaliation should be capped or best not being AoE.