Guild Wars 2

Jon mentioned in SOTG that the LB may be getting a consolidation/new skill, so here are my ideas on why the longbow is not appealing and how to change that.

New skill: Charged shot. Much burstier skill. Can be charged to different levels with an over-charge mechanic. This will alleviate the reliance on rapid fire. It also has some interesting play in that you can sacrifice damage by undercharging but surprise your opponent, or overcharge it, taking some sort of penalty (health maybe) and surprise the opponent that way as well. It will be a telegraphed skill, but it can’t be quite as easily evaded as rapid fire. You can still LoS when the charge starts but at least the ranger has more options at that point.

Remove either rapid fire or auto-attack: both of these attacks have elements that don’t make sense with the general concept of a longbow. You don’t fire a longbow rapidly so this element does not make sense. When using this skill, it’s an incredibly long channel and yet it’s the primary source of damage. It’s too easily avoided and a bit boring to use.

The auto-attack: this should either be changed to remove the effect of range on damage, or removed altogether in place of a charged shot mechanic. There is no reason to encourage being at maxed range for a ranger. The reward is minimal especially since one of the most important longbow skills does not have max range. There is already an inherent risk/reward with being at long range. This may not be as big a deal in pve, but it’s huge in pvp. You’re control is mid range, so the design feels a bit schizophrenic as one skill pulls you to mid range while another pulls you to long range. If that’s intended, then the range buff needs a huge adjustment as it is just not worth it right now.

There is no need to turn the longbow into a skirmish weapon. The shortbow is the skirmish weapon. The longbow should be there for big warfare and the design suits that.

“You’re control is mid range, so the design feels a bit schizophrenic as one skill pulls you to mid range while another pulls you to long range.”

The big problem of the ranger is not that the weapons push the ranger to long range. The problem is that a ranger should be able to operate at maximum range and have utilities supporting his group, but at the moment the utilities only affect a small area around the ranger.

Really? It’s the second time we hear about this longbow revamp and you still believe it? Took them about 8 months just to adjust the firing rates.

I would redesign LB skills this way:
#1: Remove distance tiers, do always max damage. Add vulnerability.
#2: Change it to some kind of supercharged skill. It would have high damage and long CD.
#3: Leave it as it is now.
#4: Increase distance to 900. Make it a Blast Finisher.
#5: Change it so you don’t root.

Also:
- Fix the current animation bug (using autoattack, the ranger no longer picks the arrows).
- Fix the nearly-one-year-old-bug with the missing/obstructed/invulnerable attacks.
- Upgrade arrow speed a bit more.

Stooperdale.3560:

There is no need to turn the longbow into a skirmish weapon. The shortbow is the skirmish weapon. The longbow should be there for big warfare and the design suits that.

This.

Also:
- Fix the current animation bug (using autoattack, the ranger no longer picks the arrows).
- Fix the nearly-one-year-old-bug with the missing/obstructed/invulnerable attacks.
- Upgrade arrow speed a bit more.

This too. Just really fix animation, not like SB one :/

What I’d want:
1. – Max dmg at all distances, but some other reward for keeping range. Maybe cripple or some boons? Just imagine giving might to all allies around target when you shoot from 1000+. Finally reason to use ranged in PvE!
2. – I know how weak it is, but I can’t imagine losing my stealth-tracking skill :/ Maybe make CD bigger and casting time 2x faster? Then it’d be proper burst skill (and something to shoot fast is useful for LB when you want to get rid of some defensive stacks, or force sigil proc).
3. – Look down
4. – Add effect so it only KDs (not KB) enemies that are at 750+ range (make max ranger 1200/1500). Add effects of Hunter’s Shot.
5. – More dmg, longer cripple (so it can stack some serious duration). Cast on move. Shorter cast. Maybe shorter CD?

New 3. – Some blast finisher. Naybe a “power shot” that you aim like warriors GS whirl attack (“arrow” targeting). That pierces everything on its way and blasts all fields it passes?

I prefer being a bit more modest, yet, i think we need something to “draw the crowds” to us.

Longbow range; 1600 by default
Eagle Eye trait: 25% increased damage, no range bonus

my idea of the skills, reworked:

1 – autoattack damage boosted by 25%, add a second sub-attack: “lucky number 7” every 7th hit is a critical hit.
2 – Rapid fire merged with current #3 – each shot adds 2 stacks of vulnerability (total of 20 stacks)
3 – Knockback shot given a AOE cone effect upon impact (blast finisher)
4 – Barrage 10% larger AOE, 25% more damage, less cooldown
5 – Soulshot. see below:
And this is where it gets tricky

Description: Pour your soul and bloodlust into an arrow to instantly slay an enemy. But be warned, the consequences are harsh.

Damage type: instant kill against players and lesser mobs, 15% of MAX HP against champions and special bosses.
Skill type: channeling – 7.5 seconds, interruptable, player is rooted.
Cool-down: 10 minutes
Conditions: Self – 25 stacks of Vulnerability (1 minute), weakness (1 minute), 75% reduced movement speed (1 minute), 75% reduced healing effect (1 minute), loss of 90% of MAX HP upon firing the shot, downed penalty state 3 (red) applied upon firing the shot)
Aftercast: 1.25 seconds
Projectile speed: 300% of normal speed
Unblockable: no (only skills that block or reflect would affect it)
Homing: yes

Preferably, the self conditions would be made into a special – uncurable – condition.

The shot itself would instantly slay the enemy, however you yourself would die soon after, unless you got some good friends.

The animation would root the user for 7.5 seconds while the animation is cast. The targeted player would get a crosshair over their head, and about 7.5 seconds to get out of 1500 range, or to use a blocking/reflecting skill. The reflected shot would instantly kill the caster (which was pretty much doomed in the first place, upon firing it)

How can this be OP?
Piercing arrows would allow a relatively small group of rangers to kill entire zergs, however smart teamplay would prevent such events from happening through the use of blocking, reflection or simply spreading out.

In dungeons, the total damage done by a 5 man ranger party would be considerable, but just not enough for it to be a gamebreaker. 15% of a bosse’s MAX HP is a lot, but on the other hand, the 5 man party would pretty much loose it’s ranger. Given the current respawn system in dungeons, this skill would be useless there.

In S/TPVP the skill would be -very- situational, and only the dumbest of opponents would sit around for 7.5 seconds just to get killed. So while it can be used in tPVP atleast, it would not topple the class balance in any favorable way.

The intention of the skill:
The intation of the skill is simply to draw in more players while providing the ranger class with a one-off ability that would give them unrivaled -potential- DPS, at a cost. New players usually go for the class with the most damage, and while the Soulshot would provide them with such, they would soon learn that it is situational beyond the point of being practical.

Stooperdale.3560:

The shortbow is the skirmish weapon. The longbow should be there for big warfare and the design suits that.

#LB1 one target

#LB2 one target

#LB3 one target

#LB4 one target

#LB5 five targets ( had a 50% damage nerf)

So, Do you really think Longbow is for Big Warfares?

urdriel.8496:

Stooperdale.3560:

The shortbow is the skirmish weapon. The longbow should be there for big warfare and the design suits that.

#LB1 one target

#LB2 one target

#LB3 one target

#LB4 one target

#LB5 five targets ( had a 50% damage nerf)

So, Do you really think Longbow is for Big Warfares?

should
auxiliary verb
1.
simple past tense of shall.
2.
(used to express condition): Were he to arrive, I should be pleased.

Lb1 applies vulnerability. Rapid fire applies swiftness.
3 now applies Daze the farther you are the longer daze based on distance. Call it Broad head arrow or savage shot. GG.

Prysin.8542:

I prefer being a bit more modest, yet, i think we need something to “draw the crowds” to us.

Longbow range; 1600 by default
Eagle Eye trait: 25% increased damage, no range bonus

In SOTG they said 1500 breaks the game, so it wont be default, let alone 1600. I think the bow does good damage already and that 25% more would be pretty OP (i have regular 10k+ rapid fire as it is now).

LB1- No more damage tiers. Lower damage by 25%, lower cast time to 1/2. Applies Vulnerability (1 stack).
LB2 – Cut the channel time in half (same dmg over less time). It would make sense if this applied swiftness.
LB3 – Head shot: Hit for a large amount of damage, blinds target. 1.5x-2x dmg if target is vulnerable.
LB4 – If target is inside 600, knockback. If target is outside 600, stun. Oh look, Omen of Clarity just got useful.
LB5 – CD could be lower (it has meteor showers cooldown with lava fonts damage…).

Increase arrow speed about 10-15%. Change longbow #3 to a skill like Pin Down(warrior longbow #5 skill), but make it have a cast timer like kill shot so its hard to land. That would at least give us a chance to chain skills.

Maybe make Barrage have a 25% faster cast timer -or- allow us to move while casting it.

With those three changes it would be a lot more viable imo.

I love the longbow, my favorite ranger weapon. Here’s my ideas:

1. Long range shot is a perfect candidate for rework. You could keep the basic timing and animation of the attack but maybe make it shoot flaming arrows. The attack could be a ground targeted power based skill that is not conditioned based (similar to sigil of fire) with a smaller AOE (25% or smaller of barrage’s radius) and could be a blast finisher.

2. Reduce Rapid fire cast time by 35-50%. Maybe combine rapid fire with hunter’s shot opening effect which can open up a slot for a new skill. In my opinion the cast time was the weakest part about rapid fire followed by the damage co-efficient. Auto attack should never do more damage than a skill with a cool-down.

3. Hunter’s shot should be replaced since you can combine it with rapid fire. Maybe replace it with some type of group buff that also creates a combo field. Rangers lack group buffs and combo fields and this would help promote more group play for the ranger and hopefully make us more useful/wanted. I am thinking fire field – stability or water field – protection. Cooldown 25-30s. 1s cast time with 5-7s field duration 5-10s buff duration.

4. Point Blank Shot should still maintain its core function of knockback but change it so you can charge it up for more damage. This adds to an already usefull skill while allowing the ranger to still do a quick knockback or opt for the higher damage attack instead.

5. Allow Barrage to be casted while moving (other ranger weapons need this too like offhand axe’s casted skill). Also reduce cast time by 25-40%

Here’s an idea, how about the ability to change our “arrow heads” on longbow.

Remove the 3 ability, and place that Debuff on our number auto attack

Have the 3 ability be a Cycle Ability that Changes our Arrow Heads, or Adds to them.

For example…

Poison Arrow – Adds Poison to all our Shots
Barbed Arrow – Adds Bleeds to our Shots
Ignited Arrow – Adds a Burn to our Shots.

Ect ect..That’d be somewhat interesting..

I gather that the intention is to make LB more viable in a skirmish situation as it is too predicatable right now. I think it is one of the most boring weapons in the game with no interesting mechanics, up there with the warrior’s rifle (they are kind of the same weapon).

Raven.9603:

In SOTG they said 1500 breaks the game, so it wont be default, let alone 1600. I think the bow does good damage already and that 25% more would be pretty OP (i have regular 10k+ rapid fire as it is now).

LB1- No more damage tiers. Lower damage by 25%, lower cast time to 1/2. Applies Vulnerability (1 stack).

The LB still has low damage compared to the SB, even at max range. It should do significantly more damage as it is the ‘power’ weapon for rangers. Or at least it should be.

I agree with the removal of the damage tiers on the LB. That forces us to remain at max range at all times or take a massive DPS hit. And that is very hard to do. But I don’t agree with the damage lowering. The damage at all ranges should be equal or greater to it’s current ‘max range’ damage.

Xsorus.2507:

Here’s an idea, how about the ability to change our “arrow heads” on longbow.

Remove the 3 ability, and place that Debuff on our number auto attack

Have the 3 ability be a Cycle Ability that Changes our Arrow Heads, or Adds to them.

For example…

Poison Arrow – Adds Poison to all our Shots
Barbed Arrow – Adds Bleeds to our Shots
Ignited Arrow – Adds a Burn to our Shots.

Ect ect..That’d be somewhat interesting..

That would be interesting, but that mechanic would make far more sense for the SB as that seems more like a skirmishing weapon mechanic. Also SB is the condition-based weapon, not the LB.

Keep longbow away from conditions, let it stay a power bow as it is now… that being said:

1) Base damage below 1000, does not change. Any shot from distance above 1000 though has 25% extra damage than the normal shot, OR applies weakness with each shot.
2) No more rapid fire, instead a charge shot (4 second animation) which does high damage.
3) Add an interrupt in it, give the ranger swiftness as well, reduce the time of swiftness to half what it was.
4) Knocks back still, increased damage.
5) Barrage is 12 second CD, instead of multiple shots it is five arcing arrows that deal high damage with 3 seconds of cripple. Can shoot while moving.

Also, please please change up opening strike, it has so much potential but atm is really not that good. Add 150% damage to it, allow it to give might to pet, whatever it is I think it needs to be worked on. For people traiting in marksmanship it is really important, but 30 trait points for pew and then nothing is a little disappointing.

Paz Shadow.9715:

Also, please please change up opening strike, it has so much potential but atm is really not that good. Add 150% damage to it, allow it to give might to pet, whatever it is I think it needs to be worked on. For people traiting in marksmanship it is really important, but 30 trait points for pew and then nothing is a little disappointing.

I’d almost say remove Opening Strike. It may be somewhat useful/viable in PvP and WvW, but for late-game PvE players (read: those that do dungeons) this trait is nigh-useless. An entire traitline that helps spike once per extended fight then is 100% useless for the rest of it. Even with resetting on enemy kill it is still quite useless as things in dungeons don’t tend to die that fast so you still spend a majority of all fights with a useless set of traits.

I’m all for replacing rapid fire with a charged shot.
Prettymuch anything that brings Longbow closer to Wintersday Scout in A-OK in my book.

Abrilete.1439:

I would redesign LB skills this way:
#1: Remove distance tiers, do always max damage. Add vulnerability.
#2: Change it to some kind of supercharged skill. It would have high damage and long CD.
#3: Leave it as it is now.
#4: Increase distance to 900. Make it a Blast Finisher.
#5: Change it so you don’t root.

Also:
- Fix the current animation bug (using autoattack, the ranger no longer picks the arrows).
- Fix the nearly-one-year-old-bug with the missing/obstructed/invulnerable attacks.
- Upgrade arrow speed a bit more.

Done, done, and done. All those suggestions would fix a majority of the problems for me.

… if you want charge shot to replace rapid fire, you’ve obviously never used LB before.

This sounds a lot like that suggestion to let pets dodge when the ranger dodges, which was really a nerf when you think about it.

Consolidate LB3’s vulnerability with LB2 and put charge shot on LB3 instead. It’s pointless to separate them. In fact I have a macro that’ll do LB3 before LB2 because of how fast LB3 fires. Leave my rapid fire alone; I like to keep hunting thieves with it, thanks.

Aridia.3042:

… if you want charge shot to replace rapid fire, you’ve obviously never used LB before.

This sounds a lot like that suggestion to let pets dodge when the ranger dodges, which was really a nerf when you think about it.

Consolidate LB3’s vulnerability with LB2 and put charge shot on LB3 instead. It’s pointless to separate them. In fact I have a macro that’ll do LB3 before LB2 because of how fast LB3 fires. Leave my rapid fire alone; I like to keep hunting thieves with it, thanks.

Why add the vuln spike to the rapid fire? How about adding a long-lasting vuln to the auto attack? Possibly speeding up the rapid fire as it, at the moment, does no more damage than the auto. That still frees up a slot for a new skill while making both #1 and #2 more useful.

SynfulChaot.3169:

Aridia.3042:

… if you want charge shot to replace rapid fire, you’ve obviously never used LB before.

This sounds a lot like that suggestion to let pets dodge when the ranger dodges, which was really a nerf when you think about it.

Consolidate LB3’s vulnerability with LB2 and put charge shot on LB3 instead. It’s pointless to separate them. In fact I have a macro that’ll do LB3 before LB2 because of how fast LB3 fires. Leave my rapid fire alone; I like to keep hunting thieves with it, thanks.

Why add the vuln spike to the rapid fire? How about adding a long-lasting vuln to the auto attack? Possibly speeding up the rapid fire as it, at the moment, does no more damage than the auto. That still frees up a slot for a new skill while making both #1 and #2 more useful.

Because LB1 needs a chance cripple and not vulnerability. If 1k+ range is the optimal killzone, you need to give the shooter a meaningful chance to actually take a 2nd shot. Because there’s nothing to CC the target there currently. That, or the range penalty has to go. I’m waiting for Anet to figure out which one.

Rapid fire’s anemic damage could be easily remedied by decreasing the channel’s completion time, and/or firing less arrows for the same damage.

Aridia.3042:

SynfulChaot.3169:

Why add the vuln spike to the rapid fire? How about adding a long-lasting vuln to the auto attack? Possibly speeding up the rapid fire as it, at the moment, does no more damage than the auto. That still frees up a slot for a new skill while making both #1 and #2 more useful.

Because LB1 needs a chance cripple and not vulnerability. If 1k+ range is the optimal killzone, you need to give the shooter a meaningful chance to actually take a 2nd shot. Because there’s nothing to CC the target there currently. That, or the range penalty has to go. I’m waiting for Anet to figure out which one.

Rapid fire’s anemic damage could be easily remedied by decreasing the channel’s completion time, and/or firing less arrows for the same damage.

Or increase arrow speed so the arrows have a much higher chance of hitting. It is a longbow, after all, which are known for their very, very high power. LB should not be about CCing them so you and others can hit them. That should be the SB. LB should be about powerful hits that make the enemy reel.

All skills have a 1200 range and use their respective cooldowns unless noted.

LB1: Remove damage tiers, at 900+ range apply 1 stack of vulnerability for 6 seconds.

LB2: Now uses a single shot charge mechanic, can be utilized while moving, and applies 10 stacks of vulnerability for 8 seconds. Can be held at 100% charge for mind game potential and will hit stealthed targets if channeled before the target stealths. (Like RF).

LB3: Fires 3 shots that cripple the target for 2 seconds each. 1 second channel.

LB4: Increase range to 1200, past 600 range apply knockdown. On hit, apply AOE chill for 3 seconds of radius 240 on target. If used with piercing arrows, the AOE chill will only only be generated on the first target, however the arrow will still apply 3 second chill to other targets it hits.

LB5: Reduce channel time to 1 second, decrease cooldown to 20.

Might be alittle OP, but it’s just my idea what a good LB would look like.

I agree with Aridia’s idea, giving vulnerability to the second skill will make for more reliable aplication and allow us to setup bigger damage while still dealing some. The charge skill should have 3 tiers and the last tier should root you in place to allow for counter play. 4 should remain the same, it already has a pretty good range as it is. 5 doesn’t really need anything but a CD reduction would be welcome. As for the auto attack just remove the damage tiers and find a middle ground.

I disagree with rooting the player, if anything we need less rooting animations in the game. Make the animations obvious if you must but no rooting animations please.

Aridia.3042:

… if you want charge shot to replace rapid fire, you’ve obviously never used LB before.

This sounds a lot like that suggestion to let pets dodge when the ranger dodges, which was really a nerf when you think about it.

Consolidate LB3’s vulnerability with LB2 and put charge shot on LB3 instead. It’s pointless to separate them. In fact I have a macro that’ll do LB3 before LB2 because of how fast LB3 fires. Leave my rapid fire alone; I like to keep hunting thieves with it, thanks.

rapid fire being the primary damage skill is what makes longbow painfully boring and predictable. It tracks stealth, I guess that’s nice. You can definitely replace the channel mechanic for primary damage with a charge mechanic. It’s just a matter of balance as far as damage is concerned. Sure consolidating the vuln and rapid fire would be fine but rapid fire should not be the primary dmg skill.

I have played longbow, and I hate it. Hence why I think it should be changed.

Paprikaspice.8462:

There is no reason to encourage being at maxed range for a ranger. The reward is minimal especially since one of the most important longbow skills does not have max range.

….. I want to use MAX range on my Ranger. Also, most important skill to you, might not really to be important to others. Everything you are saying is sPvP related. Which is still a SMALL percentage of the player base. IF you want a “short” Long Bow, then ask for a sPvP Bow, please?

My biggest redesign idea is, fix the “obstruction” on walls issues first. Just spent the past 3 hours in WvW with my LB, working great for me otherwise.

WHOA! I’m reading further down the list. NO WAY should they removed Rapid Fire. GG, you people aren’t using it right……

1. Combine LB1 “Long Range Shot” with LB3 “Hunter’s Shot” AND “Point Blank Shot”. Vulnerability stacks per shot.
Knockback kicks in once the target comes within 600.
Keeps pet swiftness.
Increase damage by 25%
2. Keep LB2 “Rapid Fire”. Increase damage by 25%
3. NEW: “Sundering Shot”
Damage: 2,450 (using Rapid Fire as equivalent damage, 25% damage increase, and then adjust for longer refire)
Recharge: 15 sec
Does +20% more damage for 1000 range
4. NEW: “Freezing Shot” (“Winter’s Delight”) – fire an arrow that stuns and chills target
Damage: 176
Stun (3 sec)
Chill (6 sec)
Recharge: 12 sec
Combo Finisher: Projectile
Range: 1200 (untraited)
5. Keep LB5 “Barrage”.
Remove root effect on ‘caster’.
Increase damage by 25%.
Increase number of targets affected
Keeps AoE Cripple
6. NEW ELITE: “Sniper’s Shot.” (requires ranged weapon to be equipped to use; works with harpoon, too)
1500 range.
Combo Finisher: Projectile
Damage: Fires a single shot sufficient to one-shot glass cannon builds without protection buffs or damage mitigation (15k?) (protection and damage mitigation should help the target survive)
But has very long cooldown so it cannot be used frequently (240?)
Inflicts Daze (1 sec) (thus, interrupts)
Cast time 1 sec
(can be dodged)

I have played longbow, and I hate it. Hence why I think it should be changed.

That’s probably the most egregious sin of Longbow.
It just doesn’t feel very good to use. It’s like Sword, but without the small dedicated fanbase of people taking a certain masochistic pleasure in overcoming the obstacle it presents.

Now Wintersday scout. Snowblind and Sniper Shot nailed the Sniper dynamic and feel with all the deadly precision of a .50 caliber bullet straight to my heart. I don’t even play PvP in this game, and I was in there daily. It had just done such an excellent job of capturing a good feel.

That’s what this weapon is really missing. A good gameplay direction that’s really fun to execute.

I think a cripple/chill/immobilise would be awesome on the longbow and really help out the weapon maintain range. Barrage is a great AoE skill in PvE but the cripple is difficult to use defensively.

Sniper Shot (http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Sniper_Shot_%28Snowball_Mayhem%29) would be a lot of fun. It would probably be far too difficult to pull off at higher levels of sPvP (like the warrior kill shot) but it would be fun to try. Rapid Fire kind of feels like it has no purpose.

Paprikaspice.8462:

Aridia.3042:

… if you want charge shot to replace rapid fire, you’ve obviously never used LB before.

This sounds a lot like that suggestion to let pets dodge when the ranger dodges, which was really a nerf when you think about it.

Consolidate LB3’s vulnerability with LB2 and put charge shot on LB3 instead. It’s pointless to separate them. In fact I have a macro that’ll do LB3 before LB2 because of how fast LB3 fires. Leave my rapid fire alone; I like to keep hunting thieves with it, thanks.

rapid fire being the primary damage skill is what makes longbow painfully boring and predictable. It tracks stealth, I guess that’s nice. You can definitely replace the channel mechanic for primary damage with a charge mechanic. It’s just a matter of balance as far as damage is concerned. Sure consolidating the vuln and rapid fire would be fine but rapid fire should not be the primary dmg skill.

I have played longbow, and I hate it. Hence why I think it should be changed.

LB1 is still the primary damage skill. RF should only be used when the target is at sub 1k range. Or for stealth targets.

Getting rid of RF would pretty much ensure you won’t down any thieves. Being able to move and track stealth target is extremely powerful. It’s a bad deal to exchange RF for a ranger killshot which will inevitably be a self roots. If Anet didn’t give Warriors the ability to move with killshot, the ranger version is guarantee to be a root.

If LB2 and 3 are consolidated, you can put that burst move on LB3. That setup makes the most sense.

Aridia.3042:

It’s a bad deal to exchange RF for a ranger killshot which will inevitably be a self roots. If Anet didn’t give Warriors the ability to move with killshot, the ranger version is guarantee to be a root.

I think your making a broad assumption in saying that a charge move is guaranteed to be a root. If Anet does that, the longbow pretty much turns into War Rifle 2.0 and would be pretty much be guaranteed to not to see any competitive use. Besides, Rangers being “Unparalleled Archers” would finally mean something if we could use a mini killshot while moving.

RF is nice for tracking thieves but it’s too predictable and easy to interrupt. I would rather see a control skill take its place to help us keep the distance.

Anyways, if tracking thieves is your concern, who says that a charge move couldn’t do that. I believe kill shot tracks and I can’t see why our longbow version wouldn’t.

Guys I honestly dont know why you are doing this threads any more.
Anet will do like they did before.
Fix something else completely (maybe we are not good enough under water?)

They will tweak the Longbow a bit (more damage to LB 3 or somesuch)
and then they will nerf something else a bit more (I think pets sometimes still hit someone in WvW – that, in my opinion, can not be)

And here’s my idea – I do think the Longbow needs a-fixin’. Tone down as needed :-P

What are the problems with a Ranger’s longbow?
-bad power scaling (as with all weapons, because of the pet)
-lack of utility
-inability to stay at range
-general clunkiness (?)

Proposed solution:
a)Adjust traits in the Marksmanship line.
Major traits:
-Merge Signet Mastery with Beastmaster’s might. For a somewhat powerful trait, move to Master tier. This is mainly to allow more traits in this line that help the longbow.
-Move Spotter to Adept tier (Warriors have Empower Allies at adept, Guardians have Strength in Numbers at adept). This is at best an Adept-tier trait.
-This frees up one space at the Master tier, fill this by adjusting Remorseless to be a Master-tier trait (it’s not Grandmaster-worthy, it’s just too weak)
-Further change Remorseless to: Remorseless – you have a 33% chance of regaining Opening Strikes on critical hit. Cannot regain Opening Strikes from their own crit.
-New Grandmaster trait: Longbow Mastery – add 0.5, 1, 1.5 sec of cripple to the Longbow basic attack (>1000 -> 0.5 sec, 700-1000 -> 1.0 sec, <700 -> 1.5 sec). Further increase Longbow damage by 20%.

Ok, so what these should do is: compress traits needed to run signets (while retaining the basic flavour of having to go deep into Marksmanship for signets to affect you, too – those effects are pretty good, if only the Ranger weapons were good…) while also freeing up one space in the Grandmaster tier for a longbow specialization trait. I’ve been inspired for this from the Thief Trickery line, ironically, where there is a grandmaster trait that further reduces CD on the class mechanic by 20%. Well, the basic idea of that Grandmaster trait is to really specialize into something. So is this. I do not, for a second, doubt that the trait sounds really powerful – it is. That’s why it’s a Grandmaster one. I also do not for a second doubt that other weapons and other professions need a similar trait for their signature weapons. What those might be is not the point of this suggestion, though.

OK, so with regards to the problems with the Ranger longbow: what this does is improve the ability to stay at range without needing to use up precious utility slots. It also helps the power scaling of the Longbow, but only if you want to specialize in it.
This leaves the other 3 bullet points, which should be adressed by actual skill changes on the Longbow.

b) Change the longbow skills to allow more control over the range of the fight.
Here is my proposition for the skill changes:
1. Long Range Shot – decrease cast time by 0.15 sec. Coupled with the trait changes, this should allow the autoattack to feel sufficiently powerful.
2. Rapid Fire – obsolete skill, replace with Hunter’s Shot. Change Hunter’s Shot to “Hunter’s Shot – Fire an arrow to make your foe vulnerable and immobile for a short time (0.75 sec immobilize) Your pet gains swiftness.”. Adjust cooldown as appropriate for a slot 2 skill.
3. Point Blank Shot – move to slot 3. Change skill to: “Point Blank Shot – push back your foe. The closer they are, the more damage they take and the farther they’re pushed back” Maximum damage increase of 75% over autoattack, goes down in increments of 25%, same range requirements as currently. Adjust cooldown as appropriate for a slot 3 skill.
4. New skill – Keen Arrow. “Keen Arrow – you have a +50% chance of landing a critical hit. Remorseless has a 50% higher chance to trigger. Apply bleeding to your foe (2 stacks, 4 secs). 0.25 sec casting time, 0.35 sec aftercast, 18 sec cooldown.” As a spike skill, this needs a reasonably high damage coefficient – however, this should never be an instakill.
5. Barrage – remove the selfroot on cast. Adjust it to a slightly longer cripple duration. Allow this one skill to hit up to 10 targets. Fix the damage scaling (I seem to have read it got a nerf to damage in the last patch).
[see follow-up post for rest]

[promised follow-up post]
Ok, so what’s the rationale here: as with the Shortbow, which was arguably a good weapon (and still is, unless you want to chase down other people), the Longbow needs it’s autoattack to not feel lackluster. It should be the main source of damage, not a skill on a 10 sec cooldown (which is currently Rapid Fire). The other skills should give you utility. Some of it is already present in Point Blank Shot, but only some. The problem is, the Longbow needs tools to stay at range due to the nature of the autoattack. With this, the supplementing skills provide a good measure of very short CC. With the removal of Rapid Fire, I felt the Longbow lost it’s one and only “damage spike” skill. This is being reinstated on a longer cooldown with Keen Arrow, which adds a flat 50% chance to crit (short bleeding is there for good measure, but isn’t really needed). This makes it a reasonably chanced critical hit, which would synergize well with the new Remorseless (I felt the need to increase the chance for Remorseless to trigger on this one skill – more vulnerability is good if you pick this over increased Longbow range, right?).

And finally, Barrage. Ah yes. The thing is – the other skill(s) I can think of that apply AoE CC and/or AoE damage can hit more than 5 targets. Ele staff air field comes to mind, or meteor shower. The cripple on Barrage is so short that if you are in a situation where you want to be hitting a large group of foes (and this is mostly WvW only – maybe it needs a split with regards to the number of targets it can hit?), the cripples don’t last anywhere near long enough to matter on any particular target.

Mardermann.7468:

Guys I honestly dont know why you are doing this threads any more.
Anet will do like they did before.
Fix something else completely (maybe we are not good enough under water?)

They will tweak the Longbow a bit (more damage to LB 3 or somesuch)
and then they will nerf something else a bit more (I think pets sometimes still hit someone in WvW – that, in my opinion, can not be)

We have these threads for positive dialogue and debate on trying to improve the class.

I think this is one of those cases of ‘if you don’t have something nice to say, don’t say something at all’. We know what has happened in the past. We cannot change that. We should not dwell on that. All we can do is try to work around it and continue dialogue on how to improve it.

yeah I am sorry.. I am just so angry cause of all the lost time and equipment…
I tried to play with the class after the patch… (actually since beta) I really tried.
No I am really really disheartened…

But you are right… I will shut up now and read on what great ideas the not disheartened playerbase actually has (and I mean that – really great ideas – no irony here)

Mardermann.7468:

yeah I am sorry.. I am just so angry cause of all the lost time and equipment…
I tried to play with the class after the patch… (actually since beta) I really tried.
No I am really really disheartened…

But you are right… I will shut up now and read on what great ideas the not disheartened playerbase actually has (and I mean that – really great ideas – no irony here)

I’m frustrated as well. My equipment is not as good as it used to be either. I’m actually not changing my gear until the class receives more attention as I’d prefer to not have to waste my money (and transmute crystals) multiple times just to stay viable. I just want to help the class reach it’s full potential. That and I’m too stubborn to leave my main that I have sunk 2,307 hours into.

Abrilete.1439:

I would redesign LB skills this way:
#1: Remove distance tiers, do always max damage. Add vulnerability.
#2: Change it to some kind of supercharged skill. It would have high damage and long CD.
#3: Leave it as it is now.
#4: Increase distance to 900. Make it a Blast Finisher.
#5: Change it so you don’t root.

Also:
- Fix the current animation bug (using autoattack, the ranger no longer picks the arrows).
- Fix the nearly-one-year-old-bug with the missing/obstructed/invulnerable attacks.
- Upgrade arrow speed a bit more.

I agree with all of this except I feel the third skill should instead be an immobilizing skill instead.

AlphaK.9486:

Aridia.3042:

It’s a bad deal to exchange RF for a ranger killshot which will inevitably be a self roots. If Anet didn’t give Warriors the ability to move with killshot, the ranger version is guarantee to be a root.

I think your making a broad assumption in saying that a charge move is guaranteed to be a root. If Anet does that, the longbow pretty much turns into War Rifle 2.0 and would be pretty much be guaranteed to not to see any competitive use. Besides, Rangers being “Unparalleled Archers” would finally mean something if we could use a mini killshot while moving.

RF is nice for tracking thieves but it’s too predictable and easy to interrupt. I would rather see a control skill take its place to help us keep the distance.

Anyways, if tracking thieves is your concern, who says that a charge move couldn’t do that. I believe kill shot tracks and I can’t see why our longbow version wouldn’t.

I’m making a very reasonable assumption based on game history and from a game balance stand point. This class doesn’t even have equivalent traits as the warrior. I’m still waiting for a Ranger Crack Shot trait…

Killshot is a root. And warrior is anet’s baby. Even in the Christmas event, the scout killshot was a root and that’s just a mini game that no one really cares about balance.

So you want the equivalent of that which doesn’t root you for real pvp? It’s grossly overpowered. It will not happen, ever. And as I’ve said, asking for a killshot in lieu of RF is silliness. No one who’s used a LB extensively will make that recommendation. There are far better ways to boost the LB damage without gutting one of its best features.

rapid fire only is good to kill thieves, due to channel, otherwise is a bad skill, they need to change Rf for another skill with less damage but instant.

Longbow is a power weapon. It does NOT need any condition damage on it. Conditions on the longbow should be restricted to interrupts and crowd control (daze, stun, cripple, immobilize, or chill). No bleeding. No burning. No poison. Save those condition damaging effects for the shortbow.

Rapid Fire: I actually enjoy this skill very much on the longbow. However, it is predictable and easily interrupted. So make it unblockable and a faster channel.

I agree that there should be some way to set up the longbow for better burst damage with strong sustained, direct damage between bursts.

My think about longbow…

Skill1 Long shot just add5% dmg more adjust flying arrow/speed more far MORE dmg.
Add some valu on hit.
On salvo mode ingnore distant dmg faster attack every next shot.

Skill2 Salvo Stance – Root yourself6sec.Gain protection8sec.Cut all skill1 3 4 5to 1/4CD +200range when stance online.Cancle stance when move or end of time.

Skill3 Hunting shot alway love it. Just adjust bug struck air wall.
Salvo mode give cripple on target.

Skill4 Violent shot.More close more DMG.More close knockback if victim too far just daze or knockdown.
Salvo mode if shot moving/condition target gain more DMG.

Skill5 Barrage same effect but can walk.
Salvo mode Ignore number can hit everyone in AoE.

OR

Just same as we have adjust DMG better from we lost DMG from pet.

Skill1 same above

Skill2 Rapid Fire – Fast channel for every next shot.Add every+1%dmg on next atk on same victim.

Skill3 same above

Skill4 same above.

Skill5 Ingnore number on AoE ring is good reason for long bow but…well if do that
A lot of AoE will fix all of class then just WALK when active skill is ok for it.

Taran Redleaf.7912 – I use LB with shapenter stone combo with traits and sigil I can make stack a lot of bleeding on victim 110DMG per tic to death by LB
But agree with you LB not suit for condition.

Aridia.3042:

AlphaK.9486:

Aridia.3042:

It’s a bad deal to exchange RF for a ranger killshot which will inevitably be a self roots. If Anet didn’t give Warriors the ability to move with killshot, the ranger version is guarantee to be a root.

I think your making a broad assumption in saying that a charge move is guaranteed to be a root. If Anet does that, the longbow pretty much turns into War Rifle 2.0 and would be pretty much be guaranteed to not to see any competitive use. Besides, Rangers being “Unparalleled Archers” would finally mean something if we could use a mini killshot while moving.

RF is nice for tracking thieves but it’s too predictable and easy to interrupt. I would rather see a control skill take its place to help us keep the distance.

Anyways, if tracking thieves is your concern, who says that a charge move couldn’t do that. I believe kill shot tracks and I can’t see why our longbow version wouldn’t.

I’m making a very reasonable assumption based on game history and from a game balance stand point. This class doesn’t even have equivalent traits as the warrior. I’m still waiting for a Ranger Crack Shot trait…

Killshot is a root. And warrior is anet’s baby. Even in the Christmas event, the scout killshot was a root and that’s just a mini game that no one really cares about balance.

So you want the equivalent of that which doesn’t root you for real pvp? It’s grossly overpowered. It will not happen, ever. And as I’ve said, asking for a killshot in lieu of RF is silliness. No one who’s used a LB extensively will make that recommendation. There are far better ways to boost the LB damage without gutting one of its best features.

I think using the words “mini killshot” was bad on my part, I mean simply a semi powerful charge shot that can be used while moving. In any case, acting like their would be no way to balance that with movement is silly and RF isn’t as good as you say it is. The way I see it, this is Anet’s chance to branch out and make the LB unique. If you want to keep it the current way because it’s familiar to you, then good for you.

I simply want the LB to be fun and I see RF as kind of a SB cd copout by Anet so why don’t we agree to disagree.

BTW, I’m very aware of Anet’s history but if I posted based on that, I would never post anything based on some of the crap they pulled.

AlphaK.9486:

Aridia.3042:

AlphaK.9486:

Aridia.3042:

It’s a bad deal to exchange RF for a ranger killshot which will inevitably be a self roots. If Anet didn’t give Warriors the ability to move with killshot, the ranger version is guarantee to be a root.

I think your making a broad assumption in saying that a charge move is guaranteed to be a root. If Anet does that, the longbow pretty much turns into War Rifle 2.0 and would be pretty much be guaranteed to not to see any competitive use. Besides, Rangers being “Unparalleled Archers” would finally mean something if we could use a mini killshot while moving.

RF is nice for tracking thieves but it’s too predictable and easy to interrupt. I would rather see a control skill take its place to help us keep the distance.

Anyways, if tracking thieves is your concern, who says that a charge move couldn’t do that. I believe kill shot tracks and I can’t see why our longbow version wouldn’t.

I’m making a very reasonable assumption based on game history and from a game balance stand point. This class doesn’t even have equivalent traits as the warrior. I’m still waiting for a Ranger Crack Shot trait…

Killshot is a root. And warrior is anet’s baby. Even in the Christmas event, the scout killshot was a root and that’s just a mini game that no one really cares about balance.

So you want the equivalent of that which doesn’t root you for real pvp? It’s grossly overpowered. It will not happen, ever. And as I’ve said, asking for a killshot in lieu of RF is silliness. No one who’s used a LB extensively will make that recommendation. There are far better ways to boost the LB damage without gutting one of its best features.

I think using the words “mini killshot” was bad on my part, I mean simply a semi powerful charge shot that can be used while moving. In any case, acting like their would be no way to balance that with movement is silly and RF isn’t as good as you say it is. The way I see it, this is Anet’s chance to branch out and make the LB unique. If you want to keep it the current way because it’s familiar to you, then good for you.

I simply want the LB to be fun and I see RF as kind of a SB cd copout by Anet so why don’t we agree to disagree.

BTW, I’m very aware of Anet’s history but if I posted based on that, I would never post anything based on some of the crap they pulled.

Hmmm let’s see, SOS + spider F2 stun + moving killshot = overpowered.

I’d like to see some balance please. If I want to play I class where i can face mash the keyboard and win, I’d roll a thief.

The only skills I can see them merging is Hunter’s Shot and Point Blank Shot. Which would be “Point Blank Shot: Fire a powerful arrow pushing the foe back, and causing 10 stacks of vulnerability to the foe”

The skill I think they could add is Power Shot (name taken from Guild Wars)

Would be a 1.5-2 second cast time and you’d shoot a powerful arrow. Doing damage similar to Warrior’s Arcing Arrow. Doesn’t need the trait to pierce

Aridia.3042:

AlphaK.9486:

Aridia.3042:

AlphaK.9486:

Aridia.3042:

It’s a bad deal to exchange RF for a ranger killshot which will inevitably be a self roots. If Anet didn’t give Warriors the ability to move with killshot, the ranger version is guarantee to be a root.

I think your making a broad assumption in saying that a charge move is guaranteed to be a root. If Anet does that, the longbow pretty much turns into War Rifle 2.0 and would be pretty much be guaranteed to not to see any competitive use. Besides, Rangers being “Unparalleled Archers” would finally mean something if we could use a mini killshot while moving.

RF is nice for tracking thieves but it’s too predictable and easy to interrupt. I would rather see a control skill take its place to help us keep the distance.

Anyways, if tracking thieves is your concern, who says that a charge move couldn’t do that. I believe kill shot tracks and I can’t see why our longbow version wouldn’t.

I’m making a very reasonable assumption based on game history and from a game balance stand point. This class doesn’t even have equivalent traits as the warrior. I’m still waiting for a Ranger Crack Shot trait…

Killshot is a root. And warrior is anet’s baby. Even in the Christmas event, the scout killshot was a root and that’s just a mini game that no one really cares about balance.

So you want the equivalent of that which doesn’t root you for real pvp? It’s grossly overpowered. It will not happen, ever. And as I’ve said, asking for a killshot in lieu of RF is silliness. No one who’s used a LB extensively will make that recommendation. There are far better ways to boost the LB damage without gutting one of its best features.

I think using the words “mini killshot” was bad on my part, I mean simply a semi powerful charge shot that can be used while moving. In any case, acting like their would be no way to balance that with movement is silly and RF isn’t as good as you say it is. The way I see it, this is Anet’s chance to branch out and make the LB unique. If you want to keep it the current way because it’s familiar to you, then good for you.

I simply want the LB to be fun and I see RF as kind of a SB cd copout by Anet so why don’t we agree to disagree.

BTW, I’m very aware of Anet’s history but if I posted based on that, I would never post anything based on some of the crap they pulled.

Hmmm let’s see, SOS + spider F2 stun + moving killshot = overpowered.

I’d like to see some balance please. If I want to play I class where i can face mash the keyboard and win, I’d roll a thief.

Wow, I even went out of my way to say my idea is not a killshot but please keep telling me my idea is OP without any hard number data to back it up.

Aridia.3042:

AlphaK.9486:

Aridia.3042:

AlphaK.9486:

Aridia.3042:

It’s a bad deal to exchange RF for a ranger killshot which will inevitably be a self roots. If Anet didn’t give Warriors the ability to move with killshot, the ranger version is guarantee to be a root.

I think your making a broad assumption in saying that a charge move is guaranteed to be a root. If Anet does that, the longbow pretty much turns into War Rifle 2.0 and would be pretty much be guaranteed to not to see any competitive use. Besides, Rangers being “Unparalleled Archers” would finally mean something if we could use a mini killshot while moving.

RF is nice for tracking thieves but it’s too predictable and easy to interrupt. I would rather see a control skill take its place to help us keep the distance.

Anyways, if tracking thieves is your concern, who says that a charge move couldn’t do that. I believe kill shot tracks and I can’t see why our longbow version wouldn’t.

I’m making a very reasonable assumption based on game history and from a game balance stand point. This class doesn’t even have equivalent traits as the warrior. I’m still waiting for a Ranger Crack Shot trait…

Killshot is a root. And warrior is anet’s baby. Even in the Christmas event, the scout killshot was a root and that’s just a mini game that no one really cares about balance.

So you want the equivalent of that which doesn’t root you for real pvp? It’s grossly overpowered. It will not happen, ever. And as I’ve said, asking for a killshot in lieu of RF is silliness. No one who’s used a LB extensively will make that recommendation. There are far better ways to boost the LB damage without gutting one of its best features.

I think using the words “mini killshot” was bad on my part, I mean simply a semi powerful charge shot that can be used while moving. In any case, acting like their would be no way to balance that with movement is silly and RF isn’t as good as you say it is. The way I see it, this is Anet’s chance to branch out and make the LB unique. If you want to keep it the current way because it’s familiar to you, then good for you.

I simply want the LB to be fun and I see RF as kind of a SB cd copout by Anet so why don’t we agree to disagree.

BTW, I’m very aware of Anet’s history but if I posted based on that, I would never post anything based on some of the crap they pulled.

Hmmm let’s see, SOS + spider F2 stun + moving killshot = overpowered.

I’d like to see some balance please. If I want to play I class where i can face mash the keyboard and win, I’d roll a thief.

delete pet, give us Killshot, problem solved.

AlphaK.9486:

Aridia.3042:

AlphaK.9486:

Aridia.3042:

AlphaK.9486:

Aridia.3042:

It’s a bad deal to exchange RF for a ranger killshot which will inevitably be a self roots. If Anet didn’t give Warriors the ability to move with killshot, the ranger version is guarantee to be a root.

I think your making a broad assumption in saying that a charge move is guaranteed to be a root. If Anet does that, the longbow pretty much turns into War Rifle 2.0 and would be pretty much be guaranteed to not to see any competitive use. Besides, Rangers being “Unparalleled Archers” would finally mean something if we could use a mini killshot while moving.

RF is nice for tracking thieves but it’s too predictable and easy to interrupt. I would rather see a control skill take its place to help us keep the distance.

Anyways, if tracking thieves is your concern, who says that a charge move couldn’t do that. I believe kill shot tracks and I can’t see why our longbow version wouldn’t.

I’m making a very reasonable assumption based on game history and from a game balance stand point. This class doesn’t even have equivalent traits as the warrior. I’m still waiting for a Ranger Crack Shot trait…

Killshot is a root. And warrior is anet’s baby. Even in the Christmas event, the scout killshot was a root and that’s just a mini game that no one really cares about balance.

So you want the equivalent of that which doesn’t root you for real pvp? It’s grossly overpowered. It will not happen, ever. And as I’ve said, asking for a killshot in lieu of RF is silliness. No one who’s used a LB extensively will make that recommendation. There are far better ways to boost the LB damage without gutting one of its best features.

I think using the words “mini killshot” was bad on my part, I mean simply a semi powerful charge shot that can be used while moving. In any case, acting like their would be no way to balance that with movement is silly and RF isn’t as good as you say it is. The way I see it, this is Anet’s chance to branch out and make the LB unique. If you want to keep it the current way because it’s familiar to you, then good for you.

I simply want the LB to be fun and I see RF as kind of a SB cd copout by Anet so why don’t we agree to disagree.

BTW, I’m very aware of Anet’s history but if I posted based on that, I would never post anything based on some of the crap they pulled.

Hmmm let’s see, SOS + spider F2 stun + moving killshot = overpowered.

I’d like to see some balance please. If I want to play I class where i can face mash the keyboard and win, I’d roll a thief.

Wow, I even went out of my way to say my idea is not a killshot but please keep telling me my idea is OP without any hard number data to back it up.

….I can crit with LB1 for 4.5 to 6k without SotW/SotH stacks.

Pray tell, how would your charge shot work if you don’t pump the numbers up to the realm of a killshot?

Some numbers coming from you would help a lot.