Guild Wars 2

First, we try the magic Jon Peters summon:

“Oh dear Jon Peters,
hear our calls!
We summon you, oh lord of game design!”

The longbow IS a great weapon with fun mechanics (people may argue about the damage, but with our new pet 3 becomes a lot better!)

The only thing really bothering me is it’s uselessness in sPvP.
as you all know, if not at max range the shortbow deals more damage than the longbow with more mobility. While the longbow is designed to deal damage from far away and keep people there, it’s greatest strenght is the super long range.

In sPvP there is almost NO place where you can utilize this range.
Battle for Kylo? maybe 2 spots, but horrible at clocktower.
Foefire? Maybe the only map where it’s not completely useless…
Forest of Niflhel: every Point is guarded by structures, no efficient use possible.
Temple of the Silent Storm: again, only very few spots
Capricorn: seriously, nobody likes that map anyways…

In most cases you are forced to get closer to your target and can almost never make use of your range.
In addition most of your other skills have shorter range, again forcing you to come closer.

A possible solution would be to decrease the range of the longbow to 1300 (traited) while buffing its damage in mid and long range further.
I know, you already shuffled some numbers for the longbow, but that was obviously not sufficient since so many people complain about it.
The LB may be great for defending Structures in WvWvW but in the very fast sPvP scenarios it’s always a mistake to pick a longbow.

Why would you decrease the damage… that makes no sense and is a stupid idea. They should just rework the kitten bow.

Aeri.5738:

I know, you already shuffled some numbers for the longbow, but that was obviously not sufficient since so many people complain about it.

no matter how much more numbers or facts are brought up here, they will still complain about it as long as some of their arrows miss on large distances because are used to auto-following target-detecting arrows from other sacred mmos, and because the class you play is always weaker than every other.

LB #2-5 are all awesome enough for me to use it instead of shortbow.

i see it as a utility weapon just like gs, and i dont feel the need to be able to burst down players on distance like those who mispicked ranger over thief and now think rangers should be redesigned to the wintersday scout.

Dante Dragonhand.2538:

Why would you decrease the damage… that makes no sense and is a stupid idea. They should just rework the kitten bow.

READ what I wrote.
THINK about it.
POST your answer.

I’d say they need to normalize the 0-1000 range damage and shorten its rate of fire a bit to make it at least a viable alternative to shortbow within 0-1000 range. Normalizing the 0-1000 damage instead of incrementing it between 0-500 500-100 would be a nice damage buff and I’d say at least drop it by .25s in cast time. They can keep the 1000+ damage boost to retain the novelty of longer range = longer damage mentality giving merit to the core idea of the weapon but I agree its short range damage needs a boost.

Ye i agree longbow should be reworked, at least the autoattack. But the weapon is far from useless. Hunter’s shot is actually very good (vuln and pet swift), the knockback can be really useful if u time it right. Sadly as it is now is not more than a good secondary weapon. The longbow is like a ranger icon, it deserves a boost.

I just think PvE, WvW, and sPvP are very different game modes with very different mechanics. It seems normal to me that not all weapons can be viable in all game modes. Longbow is designed for extreme long range, in areas where I can’t keep range I simply use a different weapon. Rather than adapt the longbow, my complaint is that there are no open field sPvP maps that allow for different play styles.

Daemon.4295:

I just think PvE, WvW, and sPvP are very different game modes with very different mechanics. It seems normal to me that not all weapons can be viable in all game modes. Longbow is designed for extreme long range, in areas where I can’t keep range I simply use a different weapon. Rather than adapt the longbow, my complaint is that there are no open field sPvP maps that allow for different play styles.

I completely agree with this point. I think the map is what lacks versatility. weapons should have their pros and cons.

I would say that the problem is 50% longbow pacing in general, and then 50% long range shot.

The longbow is probably the slowest firing weapon in the game (both the ranger and warrior versions). In reality it probably matches the rifle, but in practice it seems the rifle fires about 10-20ms faster. Whether this is an animation bug or intended, something is off about it, and it makes it the lowest auto attack dps in the game at everything other than 1200+ range.

As far as the auto attack goes, the only thing I can offer is to compare similar mechanics. So, Mesmer Greatsword auto attack versus Long Range Shot:
Spatial Surge:
Damage < 300 (3x): 201
Damage 300-600 (3x): 249
Damage 600-900 (3x): 300
Damage > 900 (3x): 348
Range: 1,200

Long Range Shot:
1000+ range: 317
500-1000 range: 229
0-500 range: 176
Combo Finisher: Projectile (20% chance)
Range: 1,200
The biggest thing to take away from that is the effective ranges. Matching the ranges would be a start (change ranger to : 0-300, 300-600, 600+). Increasing the base damage to about 200 would also help. Then it’s back to the pacing issue I already mentioned.

I don’t know, that’s just my take on it.

Actually, it makes sense that the maps are sufficiently different to warrant different optimized weapon usage, and this applies for the different aspects of the game pve and wvw where longbow is more popular. Foefire is probably the best map for longbow, but the thing is, pvp is a team fight. If you’re a longbow ranger and the enemy is closing distance fast and you have nowhere to go, your team lacks synergy (which is pretty usual in hotjoin).

In any case, longbow still makes for a good opener weapon, and also a situational aoe or knockback scenario.

Aeri.5738:

In sPvP there is almost NO place where you can utilize this range.
Battle for Kylo? maybe 2 spots, but horrible at clocktower.
Foefire? Maybe the only map where it’s not completely useless…
Forest of Niflhel: every Point is guarded by structures, no efficient use possible.
Temple of the Silent Storm: again, only very few spots
Capricorn: seriously, nobody likes that map anyways…

Khylo – vertical distance counts roof at clocktower if you blow it off and travel point coverage in LB beast pet kill snare mode. Longbow plus our snares and pet make you ideally suited to slowing and limiting death return reinforcements from safe locales. Ranger can do a great job greatly slowing the supply lines and preventing the enemy from maximizing retake defend options.

Foefire range is easy few ranged points limit access to you however so in outnumbered scenarios it’s a pita 1v1 it makes for some fun fights. Pinnacle snipers nest in full on crit power mode you can lay mass casualties at GY.

Niflhel = ++ Best map for longbow use. Yes the range of the snipers nest’s aren’t necessarily ideal for autoattack but,

Mine – Scaffolding on 2 sides to limit access to you, Knockdown into the water by maneuvering them to that angle. Great visibility from front scaffolding of approaching attackers enabling early pet engagement under barrage snare, knockback etc….

Keep – Backside ledges right above the point enable your knockback to knock a target over railing(Long trip back with your pet eating them) or down long approaches, need a leap pet to get pet engagement on target when using backside snipers nest, piercing and large fights targetting the enemy furthest = happy. In group fights standing at either stair you can send any single attacker that comes out to limit your range to bottom of stairway snare pet remove them from the node fight. Also a trapdroppers dream point however and it completely owns this conflict point.

Henge – Backside ledge single access fishbowl fighting point – melee and leap pets can engage while you unload weapon swap from your longbow to secondary ranged after using 5432 unless you’ve pinned enemy on back wall with pet CC + knockback.

We do get to carry 2 weapons after all but this map really lets you get good pet engagement + full utility benefits from the bow.

Capricorn – agree don’t like it but has good snipe locations control points for a knockback snaring archer.

Id like to see LB stacking Might on the ranger if it is used short range.

Cempa.5619:

Id like to see LB stacking Might on the ranger if it is used short range.

That would be sweet.

Based on my recent addiction to the Ranger class in sPvP…. anyone trying to use two bows in sPvP is bad. Their is almost no way you can survive in the close quarters combat using a longbow on any of the maps (unless your teams awesome and the enemy team is just bad).

Shortbow reigns supreme in sPvP. If you want to use a longbow, go WvW with it.

Aeri.5738:

Dante Dragonhand.2538:

Why would you decrease the damage… that makes no sense and is a stupid idea. They should just rework the kitten bow.

READ what I wrote.
THINK about it.
POST your answer.

That was a mistype, I meant why would you decrease the range. Its stupid and silly, Its range should be decreased, it needs to be reworked completely.

The main problem I had with it, even if we DID have a decent place to stand with our long bow, its almost always away from the point your protecting, anyone can easily dodge around while capping your point. If you want damage you run away to a safer spot above or farther, leaving you useless in sPvP (can’t cap). If you want to hold your point, a warrior (a decent one) will eat you alive rendering you even more useless. The knock back is good short range to create space, but how often do you get to use it? (not often enough, because its control). Damage needs to stay the same for all ranges I think, but I would love to see like condition addition, as ranges gets greater. Like, for super short range, nothing happens; semi long, bleed? or short duration cripple? maybe; but if long range bleed + cripple (but it messes with traits so, idk). Anyway, I say our pets should be able to hold points, not necessarily cap them, just stand there and hold them (some special feature for us rangers)

That’ll fix longbow range problems.

The longbow needs to be rethought from the ground up. If the shortbow is supposed to be the low damage, DOT/Condition weapon then it should stand to reason the longbow is the high damage, direct damage weapon. The range is simply a perk and in all reality a useless addition to the weapon as a whole given the range on the special abilities.

I say make the bows do the same damage overall, slightly increase the longbow’s rate of fire, and then make it so the shortbow applies bleeds when flanking and the longbow deals +XX% crit +XX% crit damage on flanking. Or something along those lines.

scree.2061:

anyone trying to use two bows in sPvP is bad.

Probably true.

scree.2061:

Their is almost no way you can survive in the close quarters combat using a longbow on any of the maps.

That’s why melee weapons exist.

scree.2061:

Shortbow reigns supreme in sPvP. If you want to use a longbow, go WvW with it.

Not really. It’s not like damage is the only thing a weapon needs to be decent.

I want longbow to have something like warrior killshot…

I feel like Longbow should be better than Shortbow at crit builds.
How I would fix Longbow:
1.Same damage as shortbow at 0-1000 range. Then buff the dmg just a bit to replace the bleeds and slower attack speed (attack speed should be faster, but not as fast as Shortbow). At 1000-1200 range a bit more dmg.
2.Rapid Fire should have 10 arrows=10 stacks of vulnerability. Should have same dmg as now (maybe).
3.Pushback=no need to fix.
4.Now that the 10 stacks of vulnerability are in Rapid Fire, there is no need for this skill. So here comes Barrage with a bit lower CD.
5.Yes, I will say it:Sniper Shot from Scout. We have no stealth skills, so this would balance slightly, because the enemy can see us the whole time charging this skill and even interrupt it. Maybe split this skill for PvE/PvP.

My Sweet Lily.1952:

I feel like Longbow should be better than Shortbow at crit builds.
How I would fix Longbow:
1.Same damage as shortbow at 0-1000 range. Then buff the dmg just a bit to replace the bleeds and slower attack speed (attack speed should be faster, but not as fast as Shortbow). At 1000-1200 range a bit more dmg.
2.Rapid Fire should have 10 arrows=10 stacks of vulnerability. Should have same dmg as now (maybe).
3.Pushback=no need to fix.
4.Now that the 10 stacks of vulnerability are in Rapid Fire, there is no need for this skill. So here comes Barrage with a bit lower CD.
5.Yes, I will say it:Sniper Shot from Scout. We have no stealth skills, so this would balance slightly, because the enemy can see us the whole time charging this skill and even interrupt it. Maybe split this skill for PvE/PvP.

We don’t need stealth lol, longbow just need better direct damage.

Oh, it would be awesome if we could stealth and charge up a huge shot like skills 5 and 4 when playing as a scout in the snowball fight.

I meant that it’s good we have no stealth as it would balance the skill slightly (no vanish and charging the skill up).

It should also be noted that Rapid Fire has the longest channeling (5 seconds) out of any other weapon skill in the entire game. Coupled with the longbows overall slowest attack speed in the game, it makes the weapon less than optimal at dealing damage against anything that moves, and even worse than that within 1000 range.
It seems as though the weapon was designed with only WvW in mind.

Agree with OP. Spvp maps are not designed for long range weapon. Even on shortbow most of the time you do not need or you can not be at max range.

But issue is not just map, it is also other players abilities: almost all class playing melee will have one insta-1200-gap closer or more. I guess they did not want to see snipers taking down people from range without taking actual risk.

There are actually very few players i have seen in spvp, who using longbow well. And their damage was not coming from longbow, but from traps or pet. Longbow is a PVE weapon.

jcbroe.4329:

It should also be noted that Rapid Fire has the longest channeling (5 seconds) out of any other weapon skill in the entire game. Coupled with the longbows overall slowest attack speed in the game, it makes the weapon less than optimal at dealing damage against anything that moves, and even worse than that within 1000 range.
It seems as though the weapon was designed with only WvW in mind.

Rapid fire sucks man, I hate using it because its not super strong and takes 5 secs to get off. I can do more damage auto attacking at max range than I can with rapid fire. Ive been saying that it needs to be compressed, make it like volley where its 5 shots in 2.5 secs or like kill shot and compress its damage into 1 strike. Rangers need an ability to gain might like every other class, currently we cant gain might outside of RaO, not reliably anyways. Ill probably just play rifle warrior till they do something about ranger next year. Maybe make rangers like the ascalonian rangers, its sad when I envy npc rangers over my own.

The problem with Longbows is the exact same problem with Pistols (thieves) and a few other ranged weapons that don’t chain attacks for their #1 skill, and it’s a very major one that alone cripples those sets:

The autoattack recast is significantly slower than it should be

Rifles have a recast roughly equivalent to their activation speeds, about 3/4 secs. (just slightly slower), while the Longbow’s #1 also has an activation speed of 3/4 secs. but the recast is more like 1.2 seconds. This means that the #1 attacks of each have roughly the same offensive statistics, but rifles fire almost 50% faster than Longbows do. That is nothing short of ridiculous.

I find it absolutely stunning that this has not been addressed or commented on in some way, so stunning that it almost single-handedly has made me lose any faith in the developers and QA testers.

Rapid fire is really poor in my opinion, the only thing I like about it is the possibility of rapidly proccing crits in conjunction with certain sigils. Other than that its only utility for me is briefly avoiding the distance penalty at closer range. I wish anet would rework this skill, I find it absurd that it does almost the same damage as autoattack with no real benefits.

If I had it my way, I would make the following changes to the longbow:

- Increase rate of fire slightly and reduce damage per hit to keep dps the same.

One of the big reasons the short bow is so much better than the longbow is because “on crit” traits/sigils/etc. all benefit more from a fast rate of fire, even if overall dps is the same.

- Increase the damage of close ranged hits with the number 1 skill so that dps isn’t penalized as much from not being at max range

It’s much harder to maintain the max range needed to make longbow damage competitive than it is to meet the flank requirement of the short bow. As much as I like mechanics that force players to think about their position, it’s just not realistic to be able to maintain max distance often enough to keep the longbow dps competitive.

- Decrease the channel time of rapid fire and keep the number of arrows shot the same for a slight dps increase on this skill.

The reason behind this is that currently, to maximize dps with the longbow, you simply stand at max range and autoattack with the number 1 ability. Increasing rapid fire dps this way would mean that dpsing with the longbow is more active for the player.

In addition to this, the longbow would give some decent burst to make the weapon more PvP viable since the max range requirement is rarely met in sPvP.

Tl:dr The longbow needs a small dps buff, but even if they kept dps the same, the weapon would be greatly improved with a few small tweaks to the way that it deals dps (higher rate of fire, make rapid fire part of dpsing normally, and give rapid fire decent burst).

shortbow > longbow

I would fix LB1 damage at its current max range values and increase crit chance at range instead. And I’d increase rapid fire damage per arrow by about 15%, or better yet do away with it completely and substitute with a single high power shot that inflicts chill.