Guild Wars 2

I would like to know some pros and cons of the LB and SB.
I’m in the process of making a legendary, i just wasn’t sure which ones to make, Kudzu or The Dreamer.

Both are ranger weapons so they offer a rounded selection of skills.. damage, control and defense. Some pros and cons of both;

Shortbow

+an accurate, fast activating auto attack skill that provides sustained DPS and a little damage over time
+poison(reduced healing, some DoT) but as with all fanning skills the application is suspect, mostly it’s good at point blank range to your target
+a modest snare with crippling shot

-900 unit range limiting use to skirmishing and duels, absolutely terrible if your target decides to kite you.
-nil AoE unless you count the piercing arrows trait but that requires foes to line up for you.

Longbow

+trait allows for excellent range(1500 units) making it a must have weapon for rangers in WvW
+great burst damage with rapid fire which does fair damage even if a few shots miss in the process
+excellent defensive utility that includes stealth and a strong knock back
+some AoE with barrage and perhaps a tiny bit more if you trait piercing arrows. nothing to write home about, though
-awful auto attack that is slow to activate and very inaccurate
-no sustained damage to keep the pressure on your target
-because it’s a bit clumsy it’s not very good in tight spaces

That’s it in a nutshell.

@mooty Thanks !

sustained damage vs burst damage
But its honestly preference depending on what or who I am fighting I change.

Unicorns or Plant Growths on your target?

mooty sad it all!!!

I prefer the Long Bow.
The raw damage output on Short Bow is way better…. still Longbow brings more handy utilities to the table.

It’s a format question really.

WvW, if you want a bow (and do consider axes or 2 melee sets) I think you have to go with the longbow. Stealth, extreme long range, AoE cripple, anti-stealth rapid fire… the LB is basically made for WvW.

SB does well in duel-y situations. Every single skill focuses on annoying your opponent’s plans. Its pressure damage is definitely intense. I don’t like the SB compared to the other weapons in sPvP, but a lot of highly ranked players use it, and with good reason.

You failed to specify if this is for PVE or PVP. From a PVE standpoint, SB is much better than LB in dungeons. Of course it’s still best to melee with 1h sword/x and use SB if you messed up and need breathing room to get back HP while still doing dmg. LB in dungeons is pretty abysmal since you rarely will have the range needed to make full use of it and if you do get the range, then you are out of range to receive group buffs and give buffs like spotter to the group. In open world PVE, LB is pretty nice since you will generally have lots of room. I personally have both Dreamer and Kudzu on my ranger and I swap them out as my secondary set depending what im doing. I always have my 1h sword/dagger as primary though.

In wvw i rarely go into the zerk but when i run full melee with some mixed armor set up, doing more dmg than a full zerker ranged dd and stay save, its better for me cause i got a commader on my ranger
But most time i roam alone ir with 1-3 guys and than i play a trapper or support ranger and only with the trapper i use sb

In pve i got some situations when the lb is nice but most time i got the sb cause it works better as off Set

After 3k hours on my ranger i have to say lb can be a nice utilty but its still a bad weapon

From WvWvW roaming perspective :
They work the best when used together.

Both are lacking

actually i would argue LB is better then SB vs mesmers and thieves due to RF tracking into stealth

Jackums.3496:

Chokolata.1870:

actually i would argue LB is better then SB vs mesmers and thieves due to RF tracking into stealth

As a mesmer, I’d take a LB ranger over a SB one, any day. A LB ranger is one of the easiest targets in the game for a shatter mesmer. Very little weapon mobility. Terrible close-range DPS. Slow moving projectiles. Easy-to-interrupt AoE. Etc. The SB evade alone makes it a better suited weapon to counter the burst of mesmers and thieves.

LB is a PVE weapon and SB is a PvP weapon, on the other hand, Warrior LB is a good PVE and PVP weapon…..sigh

lb is power/crit build spec,while sb is more of a condi build so you gotta chose… i personaly preffer power/crit and use longbow!! power/crit is a bit underastimated and people doub its power but after you make a proper build and skill you can win against any class… its great on range and even beter 1 on 1 if played proparly

saalle.4623:

lb is power/crit build spec,while sb is more of a condi build so you gotta chose… i personaly preffer power/crit and use longbow!! power/crit is a bit underastimated and people doub its power but after you make a proper build and skill you can win against any class… its great on range and even beter 1 on 1 if played proparly

SB have more dps than LB in a powerbuild, LB only have more dps than SB when you are at 1000+ from your enemy.

LB need a root/cripple skill and we should be able to use barrage while moving.

Why I pick Longbow over Shortbow in WvW:
- 1500+ range
- Barrage is our only ranged AoE that deals damage
- Tracking thieves and mesmers through stealth with Rapid Fire
- Better survivability with stealth and knockback
- allows me to go full berserker build in a zerg and be relatively safe

I used to love using Shortbow, but then they reduced the range from 1200 to 900. I haven’t tried it since. It can’t even shoot down a wall anymore.

I recently got Kudzu, because I just love using the Longbow on my Ranger. However, part of the reason is that my Ranger is a Sylvari. I’m not sure I would have gotten it if my Ranger was another race. A Sylvari leaving behind patches of grass kind of suits it.

Jackums.3496:

As a mesmer, I’d take a LB ranger over a SB one, any day. A LB ranger is one of the easiest targets in the game for a shatter mesmer. Very little weapon mobility. Terrible close-range DPS. Slow moving projectiles. Easy-to-interrupt AoE. Etc. The SB evade alone makes it a better suited weapon to counter the burst of mesmers and thieves.

Always glad I have a longbow vs mesmers when they try to get away. Hit rf just before they blink and wait for the downed mesmer to pop up. Otherwise they’d always get away.

SB #1 with LB #2-5… What a great bow that would be… I wouldnt even care what its range was…

dreams

Jackums.3496:

Chokolata.1870:

actually i would argue LB is better then SB vs mesmers and thieves due to RF tracking into stealth

As a mesmer, I’d take a LB ranger over a SB one, any day. A LB ranger is one of the easiest targets in the game for a shatter mesmer. Very little weapon mobility. Terrible close-range DPS. Slow moving projectiles. Easy-to-interrupt AoE. Etc. The SB evade alone makes it a better suited weapon to counter the burst of mesmers and thieves.

You’re talking about people that ONLY use a longbow and don’t have anything on switch. Proper use of a LB in a 1v1 is for the KB, stealth, and stealth tracking. Or for the extreme long range; you’d be surprised how many mesmers let me kill them from long range with 3 or 4 autoattacks.

I like the LB better.
But the Dreamer looks terrible compared to the beautiful Kudzu.

Personally, I prefer SB for skirmishes and duels and LB for everything else. But the funny thing is, the more and more I studied the Dreamer, it made me want to puke rainbows. All kidding aside, if pink unicorns are your thing then go for it. I ended up making Frostfang since it has the same range as Short bow and it can hit up to 3 targets.

Edit: If you time your stealth and knock backs right, you can skirmish with a LB. It isn’t as good as the Short bow, but when mastered, it can be close to it.

Jackums.3496:

Chokolata.1870:

actually i would argue LB is better then SB vs mesmers and thieves due to RF tracking into stealth

As a mesmer, I’d take a LB ranger over a SB one, any day. A LB ranger is one of the easiest targets in the game for a shatter mesmer. Very little weapon mobility. Terrible close-range DPS. Slow moving projectiles. Easy-to-interrupt AoE. Etc. The SB evade alone makes it a better suited weapon to counter the burst of mesmers and thieves.

IDK, as ranger, I prefer to use LB against mesmers because I simply AoE area around me to get rid of clones and stealth to get back in long range to burst.

In the end it’s all preference I guess, but the SB does have it’s advantages as well. i think it’s just not as effective when multiple targets, or in a mesmers case, not optimal when you’re trying to locate the real one which could take a second or two.

You’re turning this in to one of those threads “if you do this I will totally own you with this, and I have access to all these amazing skills and utilities.”

The knock back on a longbow is a really big deal because it chains with pet CC. That’s an outstanding skill. So is the stealth because its cooldown is crazy low. Interrupting rapid fire is counterproductive because that brings the mesmer of thief out of stealth.

Mesmers are really good at dueling, easily the best class in the game in my opinion. But I’ve killed literally hundreds of them with a LB because I am not an idiot. I don’t stand there shooting a barrage in to empty space while I let people kill me.

I dislike LB in tPvP, but I’ve had my kitten whooped by it a few times. If for no other reason that when the duel closes distance you’re going to get off several LB shots and if even one of those hit the mesmer loses a quarter of his health. Even if that’s all you do with the LB and don’t even use the KB, that’s a big deal.

Don’t get so defensive about it, used intelligently it’s has a ton of utility.

Jackums.3496:

Fluffball.8307:

Jackums.3496:

Chokolata.1870:

actually i would argue LB is better then SB vs mesmers and thieves due to RF tracking into stealth

As a mesmer, I’d take a LB ranger over a SB one, any day. A LB ranger is one of the easiest targets in the game for a shatter mesmer. Very little weapon mobility. Terrible close-range DPS. Slow moving projectiles. Easy-to-interrupt AoE. Etc. The SB evade alone makes it a better suited weapon to counter the burst of mesmers and thieves.

You’re talking about people that ONLY use a longbow and don’t have anything on switch. Proper use of a LB in a 1v1 is for the KB, stealth, and stealth tracking. Or for the extreme long range; you’d be surprised how many mesmers let me kill them from long range with 3 or 4 autoattacks.

Taking LB is like having only one weapon set (whichever other set you have). In a 1v1 against any player of equal skill that’s built for dueling, the tracking through stealth alone is hardly worth taking an all-around bad weapon. Its DPS is terrible outside of Rapid Fire (channeled, easy to interrupt) and an AoE that’s also channeled, easy to interrupt, and slow enough that you can simply dodge or blink out of its area of effect. Unless you’re at max range for the entirety of a fight (ie. never), you’re losing so much damage solely from the auto-attack, none of the LB’s utility makes up for it.

As a shatter mesmer, I have daze and invulnerability on demand (Chaos Storm, Diversion, Distortion), a stun (Magic Bullet), and a short CD weapon evade (Blurred Frenzy). If I take off-hand sword, I have a daze there, too (Counter Blade). If I take GS, I have a knock-back (Illusionary Wave). Rapid Fire can be so easily interrupted, it’s not an issue. 50% of its damage can be mitigated through Blurred Frenzy. This is all without putting into consideration line of sight. The fact that it’s channeled and fairly slow means that simply obstructing its path will negate it completely. The LB is simply too slow and clunky a weapon to be an effective choice for dueling against any competent player with a good build. How many LB rangers do you see in tPvP? It’s viable and excels in large groups, and can certainly be used to effect by a good player in small fights, but it is objectively inferior to certain other ranger weapons for dueling, assuming your opponent is competent.

tpvp is claustrophobic. You don’t have much room to kite.

Standard LB build in WvW is far superior to shortbow. You got a shorter cd interrupt to shut down heals with point blank shot. You got stealth for another offensive shutdown to gain positioning.

You pair that with sword mainhand and axe offhand. Use monarch’s leap and do the jump chain the opposite direction. Boom, easy 1200 range on a low cd.

Shortbow is garbage for the very simple reason that it has no meaningful utility besides the daze whatsoever. Stealth is a much more powerful defense against a group of people than a mere evade.

You can’t interrupt rapid fire when the ranger is rampaging as one or has stability from signet of the wild, and if the ranger allowed you as a shatter mesmer to get within 600 range, then he is a fool.

Everybody knows you gotta preemptively kite shatter mesmers to deny them illusionary leap range. You either force them to waste a blink and nail them after with a wolf fear/knockdown/spider root and pointblank shot,m or you simply negate that blink with monarch double leap backwards.

Another neglected fact is why wvw works better in wvw, and that’s the crit dmg cap. Both the longbow and greatsword get progressively better the higher crit dmg you have. Those two weapons outscale their alternatives (only reason mainhand sword still stays is because the autoattack gap is still too big between mainhand and greatsword to be overcome by scaling on the current item levels available).

The only tweaks longbow needs is a slight reduction in RF cast time, removing the short range autoattack damage range and keeping the medium/long while just straight out buffing Barrage’s Damage. Barrage needs something on the scale of a 50-60% damage increase and it needs to not trigger retal on all targets per wave.

Well said Zenith, I agree with everything you wrote.

LB got a bad rap in tPvP, where it is justified, and I think people carried over that group-think to WvW. The LB damage alone in WvW is enough to justify it. Even one hit on a closing opponent and suddenly it’s a very different fight. Especially against thieves and mesmers that often run around with like 14k health. A 4.5k crit on them is devastating. It doesn’t hurt dogs will often open with a KD at 2100 range or whatever it is.

Jackums.3496:

and can certainly be used to effect by a good player in small fights, but it is objectively inferior to certain other ranger weapons for dueling, assuming your opponent is competent.

This is the only true statement you made. Time and time again, a good player will always beat an average player. When two people of equal skill come across each other the one that makes the first mistake usually loses. That being said, Mesmers have counters against certain ranger skills, just like rangers have certain counters.

Your preference as a mesmer is against bear-bow type rangers, and my preference as a ranger is against a mesmer who doesn’t trait clones. At the end of the day, when I meet a decent mesmer, its 50/50. When you (if you ever) meet a competent LB ranger, hopefully it’ll be 50/50.