Guild Wars 2

In order to distract from Druid hype I was looking at poorly designed traits and Most Dangerous Game is quite possibly the worst one in the game.

Would people consider taking it if the might stacking was increased by 1 per interval and it gave the Ranger and pet 100% crit chance while under the health threshold?

No. I would consider just remove the trait entirely for something else.

Still, the concept is horrible.
Your 1st thought when below 50% is to get away or get back up above 50%. And yes, both Enlargement and Instinctive Reaction (?) helps you with that.

MDG is just a wrong step from ANet.

If the trait provided the benefits according to your pet’s HP (dead pet included), well yes. I would consider it. DPS increase when my pet get’s low would be triggered often, wouldn’t endanger Ranger himself and would provide an option to compete with Quick Draw.

Well it took 2 year and a half for them to remove this kind of trait from the spite traitline of the necromancer…

Tragic Positive.9356:

If the trait provided the benefits according to your pet’s HP (dead pet included), well yes.

Wouldn’t even consider that since it supports Rangers that don’t like pets, literally, giving them a trait that buffs them for letting the pet die.

Tragic Positive.9356:

If the trait provided the benefits according to your pet’s HP (dead pet included), well yes. I would consider it. DPS increase when my pet get’s low would be triggered often, wouldn’t endanger Ranger himself and would provide an option to compete with Quick Draw.

I would honestly never run it. Counterproductive to the profession mechanic.

Reworked MDG: Starting from 50% health, for each missing 10% health you or your pet gain an increase in both condi and power damage of 25%
Meaning at 10% health you deal double dmg.

If it came paired with a 70-80% reduction in damage from all sources while under 50% health, then it might be worth a consideration.

As is right now, it is 100% irrelevant at all times and should never be used.

I really love (my own) suggestion that it grants the Ranger the Berserk effect like many other mobs get at lower health levels and also pulse fury every second. That way, it would have immense synergy with Remorseless for a 45% more damage and one auto crit every second while under 50% health, this would improve Ranger for PvP immensely, but also be a strong trait in its own right. Together, it requires two GM traits and an under 50% health condition to be truly effective so that is not OP, but it makes a Ranger Most Dangerous once you get him below 50% health.

Delete the trait, buff Strider’s Defense to the proposed form revealed during the AMA livestream (below), move it up to Grandmaster slot, add in extra flavor so projectile destruction is doubled (100%) when under the effects of Vigor (synergy).

Fill in the blank Master Tier slot with Trapper’s Defense, change the functionality to lay a Spike Trap when you break a stun. Grab a cup of coffee, and never mention MDG ever again.

Wondrouswall.7169:

No. I would consider just remove the trait entirely for something else.

Well I mean yeah it would be best to replace it but that’s not the point. The point is what would be the change required to this trait to make it competitive with QuickDraw.

What if it gave might every second when below 75% health, 25% crit chance when within 600 range always, and then 25% crit chance and 15% damage increase when below 50% health.

Mcrocha.3891:

The point is what would be the change required to this trait to make it competitive with QuickDraw.

The change required to make this trait competitive is to first remove the health threshold stipulation. It’s been said many times and I’ll say it again here: Under health thresholds are adept tier material.

If people want it to be competitive with one of the best Ranger traits, and arguably one of the best traits in the game, then ditch the idea of revolving around the health pool threshold.

Basically, it needs to be redone, not polished.

Wondrouswall.7169:

Mcrocha.3891:

The point is what would be the change required to this trait to make it competitive with QuickDraw.

The change required to make this trait competitive is to first remove the health threshold stipulation. It’s been said many times and I’ll say it again here: Under health thresholds are adept tier material.

If people want it to be competitive with one of the best Ranger traits, and arguably one of the best traits in the game, then ditch the idea of revolving around the health pool threshold.

Basically, it needs to be redone, not polished.

If you remove the health threshold requirement then the trait doesn’t make sense. The point of the trait is that “the hunted becomes the hunter”. If one were to remove the health threshold, then the trait would need to be renamed and function differently because it wouldn’t be the same concept anymore.

I would take a trait that gives 2 stacks of might every second while below 75% health and 25% crit chance within 600 range for sure even if I had to give up Quickdraw. The below 50% bonuses are just gravy. The proposed changes to the trait make it conducive to being in the Skirmishing line as well as it is more of a pvp trait.

Mcrocha.3891:

If you remove the health threshold requirement then the trait doesn’t make sense. The point of the trait is that “the hunted becomes the hunter”. If one were to remove the health threshold, then the trait would need to be renamed and function differently because it wouldn’t be the same concept anymore.

The hunted doesn’t even have to be wounded to become the hunter as the tides can turn so as long as any situation lends an advantage to the “hunted.” Think a bit outside of that box so the removal of the health threshold can make sense.

Wondrouswall.7169:

Mcrocha.3891:

If you remove the health threshold requirement then the trait doesn’t make sense. The point of the trait is that “the hunted becomes the hunter”. If one were to remove the health threshold, then the trait would need to be renamed and function differently because it wouldn’t be the same concept anymore.

The hunted doesn’t even have to be wounded to become the hunter as the tides can turn so as long as any situation lends an advantage to the “hunted.” Think a bit outside of that box so the removal of the health threshold can make sense.

That’s why 25% crit chance in 600 range. Forget the health threshold stuff for a second. The crit works well with every single weapon, as Ranger is built around low range skirmishing. It could help all builds on the bunker-zerker spectrum as well as being useful in both condi and power builds. The crit chance synergies well with other traits in the line, opening up diversity with melee and ranged weapons as well.

Again the health threshold benefits are just extra that make the ranger more able to turn the tides of an engagement. I would easily take this proposed trait and the opportunity cost of giving up QuickDraw to do so is significant on both ends.

MDG is up there for worst trait in game.
Also,
Strider’s defence
Poison master
Honed axes
Are all terrible traits too.

Lazze.9870:

Tragic Positive.9356:

If the trait provided the benefits according to your pet’s HP (dead pet included), well yes. I would consider it. DPS increase when my pet get’s low would be triggered often, wouldn’t endanger Ranger himself and would provide an option to compete with Quick Draw.

I would honestly never run it. Counterproductive to the profession mechanic.

You mean even more than it currently is?

Tragic Positive.9356:

Lazze.9870:

Tragic Positive.9356:

If the trait provided the benefits according to your pet’s HP (dead pet included), well yes. I would consider it. DPS increase when my pet get’s low would be triggered often, wouldn’t endanger Ranger himself and would provide an option to compete with Quick Draw.

I would honestly never run it. Counterproductive to the profession mechanic.

You mean even more than it currently is?

Yes. The current version isn’t all that counterproductive, it’s just lackluster with poor trait synergy. Balancing our pet health around the death treshhold on the other hand is counterproductive to our mechanic and our pet swap trait. Keeping it dead is even worse. The old Beastmaster’s Bond trait that functioned simulairly was poor aswell.

Or to put it differently, I don’t want a trait that promote not using our pets properly.

Furthermore it would be counterproductive to the only build I ever tried MDG with, a celestial hoelbrak/strenght build where zephyr’s speed was a part of the might stacking.

But that’s just my opinion. It’s not like I ever run MDG in its current state either.

Lazze.9870:

Tragic Positive.9356:

Lazze.9870:

Tragic Positive.9356:

If the trait provided the benefits according to your pet’s HP (dead pet included), well yes. I would consider it. DPS increase when my pet get’s low would be triggered often, wouldn’t endanger Ranger himself and would provide an option to compete with Quick Draw.

I would honestly never run it. Counterproductive to the profession mechanic.

You mean even more than it currently is?

Yes. The current version isn’t all that counterproductive, it’s just lackluster with poor trait synergy. Balancing our pet health around the death treshhold on the other hand is counterproductive to our mechanic and our pet swap trait. Keeping it dead is even worse. The old Beastmaster’s Bond trait that functioned simulairly was poor aswell.

I agree, promoting dead pets or bad management of them isn’t good. Second suggestion that I already mentioned would be:
-25% crit chance increase within 600 range
-The current might stacking to be moved up to 75% health threshold
-25% crit chance when below 50% and 10-15% damage increase

Or another suggestion is to make it have a mechanic that behaves with traps somehow.
-When the Ranger evades an attack, a spike trap is dropped at feet.
-When the Ranger blocks an attack, a frost trap is dropped at feet.
-When the Ranger swaps weapons, a vipers nest is dropped at feet.
Maybe one or two of the effects, maybe all of them idk. Granted this trait would probably break the guardian forums, but whatever.

Edit: formatting

@Lazze
The thing is that I have been playing Ranger ever since I started playing Guild Wars… And that’s nice few years already and I haven’t found a way to keep my pet healthy.

If I as a Ranger keep playing below 50% HP for 8 seconds – I am basically a horrible player. That’s just how it is. Furthermore, in PvE we always run with 25 might stacks, which means this trait would probably be used for PvP (where pet is constantly dead or below 50%, regardless of how much you try) or open world (where pet deals 30% of our damage, so boosting it by 16% via 8 might does not compete with it by a long shot).

Which means that it would only provide a temporary reduction for your loss. If you lose your pet – you’ll lose 30% of your damage.
Trying to fall below 50% HP yourself is a disgrace for the game itself. That’s much worse than keeping your pet dead in case you know he’s going to die again even if you ress him up.

No to any offensive traits that trigger below 50% player health. Fit it into the skirmishing theme:

MDG: You and your pet gain 1 stack of might for every successful attack you make on a target while flanking. No ICD. Duration 8 seconds.

Raven.9603:

No to any offensive traits that trigger below 50% player health. Fit it into the skirmishing theme:

MDG: You and your pet gain 1 stack of might for every successful attack you make on a target while flanking. No ICD. Duration 8 seconds.

Might need tweaks.
Rapid Fire is 10 hits, warhorn 16, Barrage 12.
Access to 25 might if barrage hits 2 targets sounds a bit too powerful.

But the idea sounds much better than the current functionality.

Tragic Positive.9356:

Raven.9603:

No to any offensive traits that trigger below 50% player health. Fit it into the skirmishing theme:

MDG: You and your pet gain 1 stack of might for every successful attack you make on a target while flanking. No ICD. Duration 8 seconds.

Might need tweaks.
Rapid Fire is 10 hits, warhorn 16, Barrage 12.
Access to 25 might if barrage hits 2 targets sounds a bit too powerful.

But the idea sounds much better than the current functionality.

I am only considering channeled attacks as one attack, the same way they work with confusion. This is mainly a very strong option for 1h sword (which has no good choice in skirmishing GM’s, but is arguably THE skirmishing weapon), and shortbow (another “skirmishing” class weapon).

at ~1 attack per sec, its not necessarily a good choice for GS, axe or LB.

Personally I’d say keep the theme of risk/reward. But I’d change it to “While under 50% hp, deal 20% more dmg”

Oberon Vex.1389:

Personally I’d say keep the theme of risk/reward. But I’d change it to “While under 50% hp, deal 20% more dmg”

It needs to be more than just 20% more damage. See the other classes (executioner, bolt to the heart, the revenant one, close to death) they all deal 20% more damage to foes below 50% health, so have zero drawback to the user.

If it pulsed fury as well as did 20% more damage, it would be quite good imo, but hardly counterable. I also advocate for the Berserk effect to be used, so there is an indicator that people can see that the Ranger is going on a rampage and also because it is exactly how that effect is used in-game. The mob drops to a certain health % and Berserk triggers.

But a health trigger for a GM trait is really not a good idea imo.

Heimskarl Ashfiend.9582:

But a health trigger for a GM trait is really not a good idea imo.

Been saying that this whole time. Even Irenio stated that this trait was designed to reward the player for biding time while under the health threshold, then heal up so one could come back stronger, which whole concept was doomed from the start.

Heck, even he seems to have learned a lesson when he tried to reapply this wonky 1 stack of Might per second benefit to the Scrapper’s [Mass Momentum], except it’s tied to having Stability on instead of a health threshold.

I would have no qualms with MDG if they wanted to move it down to Master tier and changed to something similar like “Gain Might while you have Vigor.” At least then there would be some actual synergy with Primal Reflex, Light on Your Feet, and Vigorous Training.

Have the trait grant +300 ferocity while under 50% (20% crit damage essentially) while pulsing 3 seconds of fury every 5 seconds (for synergy with remorseless).

You damage the ranger, he gets deadlier. That’s what the trait should efficiently do.

Wondrouswall.7169:

Heimskarl Ashfiend.9582:

But a health trigger for a GM trait is really not a good idea imo.

Been saying that this whole time. Even Irenio stated that this trait was designed to reward the player for biding time while under the health threshold, then heal up so one could come back stronger, which whole concept was doomed from the start.

Heck, even he seems to have learned a lesson when he tried to reapply this wonky 1 stack of Might per second benefit to the Scrapper’s [Mass Momentum], except it’s tied to having Stability on instead of a health threshold.

I would have no qualms with MDG if they wanted to move it down to Master tier and changed to something similar like “Gain Might while you have Vigor.” At least then there would be some actual synergy with Primal Reflex, Light on Your Feet, and Vigorous Training.

Yes, I’ve been saying it all along too.

I think it could be decent if it had a very short ICD and stacked multiple stacks of might when your health rose above 50% instead of dropping below. Say 8 stacks for 10s when you heal back up, that would be more intuitive, the risk is there, but its rewarding sensible play. Maybe…“You deal 20% more damage while under 50% health. When your health rises above 50%, you gain 8 might for 10s.” 5s ICD.

I like the idea of it working with vigor, that could be quite decent with tuning.

Tragic Positive.9356:

Trying to fall below 50% HP yourself is a disgrace for the game itself. That’s much worse than keeping your pet dead in case you know he’s going to die again even if you ress him up.

Doesn’t apply to me because I’m not using the trait as a “reason” to stay below 50 %. I look at it as a bonus when I am below 50 %. That is exactly why a healthtrigger grandmaster is lackluster in the first place, because thats’s the only viable way to use it.

Besides, keeping my pet alive in PvP ain’t something I’m struggling with, and therefore I wouldn’t want to use a trait that works against my playstyle. That’s why your suggestion, to me, is counterproductive.

It doesn’t really matter how bad MDG currently is, a trait that promotes bad use of our mechanic and function as a band aid for our other mechanic problems is not a good trait in my opinion and not something I would be running.

UnitedChaos.8364:

MDG is up there for worst trait in game.
Also,
Strider’s defence
Poison master
Honed axes
Are all terrible traits too.

Poison Master is not a terrible trait. Honed axes isn’t the worst trait in the game either. Both are used by our PvE burn build, poison master being our only source of poison in said build ‘cause burning is broken. For PvP, poison master builds would see use if the trait wasn’t competing with all of our condition removal traits besides evasive purity and conditions weren’t currently in a position where everything does scratch damage except burning. Again, Poison Master, with no balance changes, could become an incredible trait for Druid builds, condi removal/resistance, healing and poison to prolong and win prolonged fights.

HotHit.6783:

Poison Master is not a terrible trait. Honed axes isn’t the worst trait in the game either. Both are used by our PvE burn build, poison master being our only source of poison in said build ‘cause burning is broken. For PvP, poison master builds would see use if the trait wasn’t competing with all of our condition removal traits besides evasive purity and conditions weren’t currently in a position where everything does scratch damage except burning. Again, Poison Master, with no balance changes, could become an incredible trait for Druid builds, condi removal/resistance, healing and poison to prolong and win prolonged fights.

Poison Master should have never been reduced from 50 % in the first place. How they managed to go through testing, deeming it too strong with the new condi stacking, while letting all this burn damage to through is beyond me. The only reason it has use in PvE is because it’s no better option, not because it is particularly good.

Honed Axes is still bad. Feroctiy for mainhand axe is bad, AoE chill could have been a nice baseline buff for axe. But no, they tagged it on a bad trait to make it “grandmaster worthy”. Bad design pouring all over it.

The way the game works, keeping your health below 50% hp should be a temporary, excited state thing not a sustain (who the hell will be playing and consciously manage their Hp to be lower tan 50%?).

The only way this trait will work and can still adhere to the concept of the trait is only if you get many more might stacks per tick but at much lower duration. Say 10 stacks per second, each lasts 2 secs. That way it would really become a “hey, my HP is running low but I get tremendous buff in offense so watch out, it’s either me or you being killed” while at the same time keeping people away from camping in low hp with might duration buff.

Lazze.9870:

Tragic Positive.9356:

Trying to fall below 50% HP yourself is a disgrace for the game itself. That’s much worse than keeping your pet dead in case you know he’s going to die again even if you ress him up.

Doesn’t apply to me because
_I’m not using the trait as a “reason” to stay below 50 %. I look at it as a bonus when I am below 50 %. _

…
…

The same applies to your pet. I get your point but your reasoning does not really explain the situation.

One way or another, this trait needs a serious overhaul.

Reworked? MDG should be burned. The charred of earth on which it’s ashes lay, should be steeped in oil, setfire anew and the ground salted to make sure that it never, ever, ever comes back again. The trait needs to be excised from the game for what it is, a failed hand-me-down from necro. A trait which is so badly deisgned, so doomed to failure that it was proven completely useless even for the class it was designed for, which actually had the mechanics to use it to it’s fullest.

Robert Gee had the good sense to finally get rid of it, I can’t understand how it ended up on ranger.

MDG it sounds like an STI and now Ranger has it.

Tragic Positive.9356:

Lazze.9870:

Tragic Positive.9356:

Trying to fall below 50% HP yourself is a disgrace for the game itself. That’s much worse than keeping your pet dead in case you know he’s going to die again even if you ress him up.

Doesn’t apply to me because
_I’m not using the trait as a “reason” to stay below 50 %. I look at it as a bonus when I am below 50 %. _

…
…

The same applies to your pet.

Except it is a lot easier to balance your own health around the 50 % than your pet, especially when considering the pet is a useful utility when not treated as death fodder. I don’t see anything wrong with my reasoning when I don’t struggle to keep the pet alive or want any trait that promotes killing of our mechanic.

Anyways, as a bottom line, MDG or any other offensive grandmaster trait shouldn’t have a trigger dependent on our own, or the pet’s, health in the first place.

Lazze.9870:

Except it is a lot easier to balance your own health around the 50 % than your pet, especially when considering the pet is a useful utility when not treated as death fodder. I don’t see anything wrong with my reasoning when I don’t struggle to keep the pet alive or want any trait that promotes killing of our mechanic.

Anyways, as a bottom line, MDG or any other offensive grandmaster trait shouldn’t have a trigger dependent on our own, or the pet’s, health in the first place.

Still the same thing over again.
It promotes keeping your pet below 50%. If you let it die – you lose a lot of DPS and utility – that’s exactly it.

Currently the mechanic promotes killing ourselves.
This is a statement that logically deduces from yours. So any way I look at it – getting it from pet is still far better than the current version. Regardless of how much it helps people who hate pets. After all, there are currently 2 utilities and 1 trait that promote dead pet.
<cough> Synergy <sough>. In reality, it promotes keeping your pet alive since it’s constantly close to dying. Having it killed is still utility and DPS loss. There’s no real promotion of dead pet.

Sometimes you can’t avoid having a dead pet. PvE- and PvP-wise. The only way to avoid a dead pet is keeping him at 1500 range where the pet is useless. And that is, by any means, not a representative kind of class mechanic.

Tragic Positive.9356:

Lazze.9870:

Except it is a lot easier to balance your own health around the 50 % than your pet, especially when considering the pet is a useful utility when not treated as death fodder. I don’t see anything wrong with my reasoning when I don’t struggle to keep the pet alive or want any trait that promotes killing of our mechanic.

Anyways, as a bottom line, MDG or any other offensive grandmaster trait shouldn’t have a trigger dependent on our own, or the pet’s, health in the first place.

Still the same thing over again.
It promotes keeping your pet below 50%. If you let it die – you lose a lot of DPS and utility – that’s exactly it.

Currently the mechanic promotes killing ourselves..

Because it’s nothing wrong about my reasoning. I’m not defending the current MDG, it’s crap. I’m telling you why I, personally, wouldn’t use your suggested version of the skill. Your arguing also suggest that my pet is often close to dying, which isn’t the case.

Your suggestion was that the the trait would still function if the pet was dead. That’s actually promoting death. Way more than MDG does. It gives you something for having a dead pet (more than what you currently have with a dead pet), MDG gives you nothing for being dead, because, well, you’re dead. The problem with MDG, aside from being a lackluster leftover from the Necromancer, is that the ranger lacks the tools to make it worth it. It’s not outright promoting death as strongly as your suggestion, it just happens to be the result of overly relying on it because of reasons already stated over and over again in about every thread about this trait.

Protect me is bad. Empathic Bond is bad. For some of the very same reasons I don’t like your suggestion. We don’t need more of this crap. We need less of it. That’s not saying people can’t make more use out of your suggestion than the current version, but it doesn’t change me not wanting to use it or finding it overal counterproductive to the profession’s main mechanic.

But you know, whatever.. We both want something very different to what MDG currently offers, so what’s the point..

What about, as i suggested in the OP about trait changes, to apply also damage reduction?
The problem with this trait is that is difficult to stay alive if we reach 50%HP.
With up to 50% HP 1 stack / 15% damage reduction
Up to 25% HP 2 stacks / 30% damage reduction.
Alternative to BarkSkin and also a chance to build up the might. After 9 seconds you could end up with 18 stacks of might and that it respectable.
Also with the other changes in the traits a tankier ranger would be viable, so that 25% could be something like 5K-6K health. That with the damage reduction and the new cleanses would make the ranger to have actually a chance to make this trait shine