Mandatory pets are bad.

Mandatory pets are bad.

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Posted by: Aretak.3826

Aretak.3826

AI in this game is mediocre, so making it a non-optional class mechanic that counts for 30% of your class is plain dumb. Utilities are also lacking for anything meaningful beyond traps on a trapper build and spirits for no-brain pet zoo. Combined it’s a simple case of other classes being better without an AI crutch.

My idea would be to make pets optional, and when choosing not to you gain a 30% damage boost along with 3 F-bar skills (similar to engi) based on your stowed pets that summons them briefly to cast a skill. Any pet traits then relate to these skills. Having a Bear and Moa for example would give you a choice of the generic Bear skills in F1 (slash,bite, defy pain), generic Moa in F2 (peck, harmonic cry, frenzied attack) and F3 would be a choice between the variants special skill. A Red Moa and Brown Bear would give a choice of furious screech or shake it off for example.

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Posted by: Durzlla.6295

Durzlla.6295

Mandatory pets aren’t BAD, having mandatory pets in a “play your way” game with no alternative class of the same theme as the mandatory pet class however, is bad.

And we all know the AI needs to be fixed you don’t need to tell us.

They sing dark, delicious notes about power and family.
As their mother, I have to grant them their wish. – Forever Fyonna

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Posted by: Nuzt.7894

Nuzt.7894

I think pets should be a choice though, having to rely on a broken AI seems silly. Maybe you get a pet with 5 points into beastmastery, this allows for rangers to choose whether they want that pet or not and points can be spent elseware. Or simply make it so pets are not such a large part of the class unless you choose to spec into beastmastery.

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Posted by: Serraphin Storm.2369

Serraphin Storm.2369

Rangers Mechanisms are pet and spirits. If these two thing bother you then play a thief or Warrior they both have bows so are technical archers as well.

Most classes have two Mechanisms one they can choose to use and the other they don’t really have a choices. Pets are our no choice option spirits being our choice.

In order to properly understand the big picture,
everyone should fear becoming mentally clouded and obsessed with one small section of truth.

(edited by Serraphin Storm.2369)

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Posted by: Rym.1469

Rym.1469

Pets would be welcomed, really! If only they served more as a utility which works and have more useful traits. Examples? Ho ho, many:
-Trait which gives your pet +30% damage if your health is below 50% (Master BM)
-Trait which causes pet to Daze/Fear/Stun/Immobilize foes in 600 range if you’re CC’d
-Trait which causes pet to heal you for some amount of damage done and vice versa
-Trait which gives pet a chance to buff your allies on attack

So many options. But yea, instead, let’s make Pet as a random NPC helper with AI of lvl 3 mob! Great idea!

[rude]Antagonistka – Revenant, EU.
[SALT]Natchniony – Necromancer, EU.
Streams: http://www.twitch.tv/rym144

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Posted by: CntrlAltDefeat.1465

CntrlAltDefeat.1465

I have to agree. I rolled a ranger, and when I dropped my first trap, and foe never came near it because they were too busy chasing my pet, they lasted another 5 lvls before they were deleted. In gw1 I never used a pet..I found the compulsory pet in gw2 just annoyed me more than anything else.

The scope in ranger previously was good;
Interrupter
condition pressure
choice of short, medium,long range
Bunny thumpers
Trappers

It really feels to me that rangers took a large step backwards in gw2. They’re not even the best profession with bow..if the ranger isn’t the best given profession with bow, well that spoke volumes to me. It is why you see so many rangers in higher content using axe/warhorn.

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Posted by: Durzlla.6295

Durzlla.6295

I have to agree. I rolled a ranger, and when I dropped my first trap, and foe never came near it because they were too busy chasing my pet, they lasted another 5 lvls before they were deleted. In gw1 I never used a pet..I found the compulsory pet in gw2 just annoyed me more than anything else.

The scope in ranger previously was good;
Interrupter
condition pressure
choice of short, medium,long range
Bunny thumpers
Trappers

It really feels to me that rangers took a large step backwards in gw2. They’re not even the best profession with bow..if the ranger isn’t the best given profession with bow, well that spoke volumes to me. It is why you see so many rangers in higher content using axe/warhorn.

Don’t forget rangers had spirits that actually played a HUGE role in combat, it was a matter of “is your team adapted to this effect?” If yes, it was a huge advantage, if not it normally screwed your build over big time, sometimes to the point where it’s useless.

Not to mention pet builds in Gw1 were actually scary, your pet was essentially a personal warrior… In gW2 they’re nothing more than a nuisance

They sing dark, delicious notes about power and family.
As their mother, I have to grant them their wish. – Forever Fyonna

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Posted by: Sevans.4619

Sevans.4619

I don’t mind mandatory pets, I enjoy pet classes. I get a furry little companion to run around with me. I do mind losing a lot of damage because I have a pet. I don’t think that’s fair. All other class mechanics are a bonus to their class, ours is the only one that has a constant drawback.

I know that AI won’t be fixed. So I’d like to see damage given back to the ranger, have the pet damage taken down a bit, but have it scale better with Beastmastery, then give the pets more of a utility role. More boons, more soft and hard CC, etc.

Saethe — Favorable Winds [Wind] — Maguuma

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Posted by: Gabe.3976

Gabe.3976

Idea: Include, say, three or four preparation options in there with the pets. Make them so that if a pet is supposed to be thirty percent of your damage, the preparations give 25-27% back to you. Put in an F2 skill for each of them that’s something you perform. Give players one to start with, and make the rest like the pets, where you have to learn it somewhere in the world.

This way, we wouldn’t lose the F2 as a core mechanic. Pets would provide a higher theoretical damage, allowing those who’re good at micromanagement to come out a little ahead. Most importantly, rangers wouldn’t be forced to make the choice of, “well, do I put my pet on passive and lose 30% of my damage, or do I let it out and run the risk of it screwing up the encounter?”

Honestly, I hope they do something like this soon. I just did marionette, and the amount of hate that rangers get because of the pet mechanic screwing things up is just astounding. Even when the rangers have nothing to do with it. Listening to an entire zone slag your class—even if it’s not about you—is really discouraging.

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Posted by: Substance E.4852

Substance E.4852

I have to agree. I rolled a ranger, and when I dropped my first trap, and foe never came near it because they were too busy chasing my pet, they lasted another 5 lvls before they were deleted. In gw1 I never used a pet..I found the compulsory pet in gw2 just annoyed me more than anything else.

The scope in ranger previously was good;
Interrupter
condition pressure
choice of short, medium,long range
Bunny thumpers
Trappers

It really feels to me that rangers took a large step backwards in gw2. They’re not even the best profession with bow..if the ranger isn’t the best given profession with bow, well that spoke volumes to me. It is why you see so many rangers in higher content using axe/warhorn.

Don’t forget rangers had spirits that actually played a HUGE role in combat, it was a matter of “is your team adapted to this effect?” If yes, it was a huge advantage, if not it normally screwed your build over big time, sometimes to the point where it’s useless.

Not to mention pet builds in Gw1 were actually scary, your pet was essentially a personal warrior… In gW2 they’re nothing more than a nuisance

Edge of Extinction pre-nerf in Fort Aspenwood was the greatest thing ever. Never has the Ranger been so stupidly OP lol.

Connection error(s) detected. Retrying…

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Posted by: Amethyst Lure.5624

Amethyst Lure.5624

Somewhat unrelated in a way but, I absolutely hate that the spider is so good for pvp. I can barely stand looking at them on even a computer screen. :P

But even with that in mind I think if one starts to fiddle with the unique abilities for each type, there needs to be a solid framework to change to – just taking away ability choice in the name of less unique pet abilities makes things feel bad in another way.

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Posted by: ilr.9675

ilr.9675

Mandatory is fine when the upsides outweigh the downsides.

For instance, “Pets” that just followed you around buffing your team (aka: spiritway) have always been seen as upsides with almost no downsides since even the days of GW1. Imagine if our pets could do the same thing in a DPS-buffing fashion that almost compensates for them not attacking in melee 24/7 like the dumbest AI on the planet? Yeah those would be very good upsides for a mandatory Pet to compensate for that mandatory lower base-DPS that only ranger is punished with.

But here’s the funny thing: when I checked the wiki today for info on what skill changes were made the past few months since I’ve been away, guess what I saw? ….that’s right, even more Spirit nerfs and some junk about shifting the power over to power builds except it was only 1 trait and 1 attack on longbow that got those “power buffs”. I guess they’re still fighting this “Bunkers with access to DPS” battle?

So yeah… apparently Upsides VS. Downsides is not exactly something Anet has been demonstrating consideration-of everywhere, unless the purpose is more PvP nerfs. In that case though, they’re all over it like you wouldn’t believe. They clearly know the difference. but _it Seems a bit inconsistent if you ask me.

(edited by ilr.9675)

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Posted by: Puro.8501

Puro.8501

I’ve been reading the forums and wow, pets got nerfed to none existence. One thing I don’t understand about the traits is that pets already do no damage what so ever, hence investing in beastmastery is a huge waste of trait points.
If they nerfed pets so badly why didn’t they buffed the ranger’s damage to compensate. Or, make investing in beastmastery make the pet do some damage, but alas, its a worthless trait line.
If they gonna nerf pets to do 0 damage then they might as well just delete them from the game all together and be done with it.

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Posted by: Mardermann.7468

Mardermann.7468

Mandatory pets aren’t BAD…..

Yes they are… just because you learned to play around the problems the pet have,
doesn´t mean that they are not bad.

I play the petclass in every mmo I played (started with UO) and I can name several older games with better pet mechanics and better AI ….
hell even Torchlight has more useful pets then the cräppy “switch the pet” system in GW 2

.. and I didnt even start with the AI or pathing or workarounds we were presented until now…

I dont play GW2 any more so I really dont care … but the time I played and mained a Ranger (and handled myself rather well with it) I was really impressed how a beautiful game like GW2 could allow such a stupid system like its petsystem into the game…

So yes Durzlla, we really know now that you are a top notch ranger… but call the petsystem as it is … BAD!!! badly thought out AND badly implemented….

(edited by Mardermann.7468)

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Posted by: Forzani.2584

Forzani.2584

Too many black and white statements being made in this post.

I understand the theory that the Ranger class has a companion. That if you don’t like that fact then you should play another class. I agree with that in theory. The problem is the AI is flawed.(That’s why a player can run through almost any zone and not worry about death…as long as he keeps moving) If Anet could fix it, they would. They say they can’t.

So just throw up your arms and say “oh well”? If they can’t fix the specific problem then they have to solve it another way. The easiest way is to give the player a choice. Pet -30% damage for Ranger or stowed pet and full damage for Ranger.

In a perfect world the pet would work. since it doesn’t, Anet is going to have to adapt, improvise and overcome.

When someone uses the word ‘Meta’, a kitten dies. Don’t do it.

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Posted by: Mardermann.7468

Mardermann.7468

I understand the theory that the Ranger class has a companion. That if you don’t like that fact then you should play another class.

I made the Ranger my main because of the fact that its the petclass… but the system handles the pet not like a companion… it is like a throw away weapon…. “so you are low on health? I switch you out with one of the other no name pets I have in the list…” doesn´t sound like a companion to me…
the whole switch around system

the pets still forget their name … after how long? They not even have made it possible to give the two pet slots a “name” tag. Thats how important it is to Anet

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Posted by: Sneakier.9460

Sneakier.9460

I have to agree. I rolled a ranger, and when I dropped my first trap, and foe never came near it because they were too busy chasing my pet, they lasted another 5 lvls before they were deleted. In gw1 I never used a pet..I found the compulsory pet in gw2 just annoyed me more than anything else.

The scope in ranger previously was good;
Interrupter
condition pressure
choice of short, medium,long range
Bunny thumpers
Trappers

It really feels to me that rangers took a large step backwards in gw2. They’re not even the best profession with bow..if the ranger isn’t the best given profession with bow, well that spoke volumes to me. It is why you see so many rangers in higher content using axe/warhorn.

The scope ain’t that far off

We still have condition builds that work amazing

We still have trappers builds that are amazing

Our support builds are EPIC to say the least, water fields, spirits, many buffs

The problem in Ranger lies in its POWER builds

Anything going Marksmanship/Beastmastery/Skirmishing for physical DPS is doomed in most cases

Marksmanship/Skirmishing problem: Our weapons do not hit HARD enough for a Power/Crit build to be competitive, yes we can hit 10k mauls with Signet of the Wild and Signet of the Hunt but thats 1 trick poney

Beastmastery: Our Pets are mentaly kittened, why would you waste precious taste making ur kittened pet a tiny bit stronger?

I hope anet either gives rangers more physical damage or more survival cuz right now we are broken

My 50 cents

Gunnars Hold= Tuga Land

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Posted by: Durzlla.6295

Durzlla.6295

Mandatory pets aren’t BAD…..

Yes they are… just because you learned to play around the problems the pet have,
doesn´t mean that they are not bad.

I play the petclass in every mmo I played (started with UO) and I can name several older games with better pet mechanics and better AI ….
hell even Torchlight has more useful pets then the cräppy “switch the pet” system in GW 2

.. and I didnt even start with the AI or pathing or workarounds we were presented until now…

I dont play GW2 any more so I really dont care … but the time I played and mained a Ranger (and handled myself rather well with it) I was really impressed how a beautiful game like GW2 could allow such a stupid system like its petsystem into the game…

So yes Durzlla, we really know now that you are a top notch ranger… but call the petsystem as it is … BAD!!! badly thought out AND badly implemented….

If you even read my kittening post you’d see that you’re saying exactly what I just kittening said.

All I said was having MANDATORY PETS wasn’t bad, I didn’t say the mandatory pets in GW2 weren’t bad, their AI is horrendous and they need some serious fixes. I’ve said this over 1000 times on this forum, we ALL know the AI sucks.

However, that’s not an issue of the pet being mandatory, EX: WoWs hunter, AND warlock AND frost Mage all have mandatory pets (if you want to be viable) and they work kittening fine.

They sing dark, delicious notes about power and family.
As their mother, I have to grant them their wish. – Forever Fyonna

(edited by Durzlla.6295)