Guild Wars 2

At this moment in time, I am unsure the direction ANet has for the Ranger in the upcoming patches but I would like to express my views of introducing a Blast Finisher on Maul.

As a hardcare WvWer, Rangers tend not to have a spot in most hardcore guild Metas because of the lack of team support they provide compared to other profession. Although I have been debuting to these egotistical commanders everyday about what Ranger bring to the group, they do have a point because many of the Ranger skills and traits are more inward towards the Ranger and it’s pets rather than to the other players around the Ranger.

I have spent months theory crafting Ranger WvW builds that focus on team support and there are only a few builds that work well but these builds are not game breaking compared to the skills and traits Guardians and Elementalists bring as team support. 8 months of hardcore WvWing on a Ranger, the Greatsword has been my main weapon. With all the great additions and revamps ANet has made to this weapon has helped out a lot but adding the Blast Finisher on Maul would make this weapon complete. I can care less about damage but having a Blast Finisher on Maul will end the debates about Ranger’s viability in group play. By having this tool on the Ranger, it will be an excellent addition to the other team oriented skills the Rangers has and allow this profession to be welcomed into the WvW hardcore team meta. Futhermore, this will help but not end the super stacking of Guardians as a core zerging meta which plagues WvW at the moment.

Finally, by having a Blast Finisher on Maul, could improve the survivability of our pets which is another issue for another day

Yeah…it’s a no brainer for us rangers. I’d even take a recharge time increase on Maul if it meant getting the Blast. The horn is a good weapon, but most power rangers(ha!) go LB/GS for obvious reasons. I mean, what weapon would you use with it? The Sword’s rooting is an legit problem for W3, and Axe wielders are generally condi specced with SB on swap.

At least my Healing Spring and Entangle is still desired by my small-man squad lol.

Blast finisher on Maul would give too much synergy with Healing Spring and other fields, even if its recharge was increased. They would have to adjust Swoop and Crippling throw, which would probably end up nerfing GS damage in the long run, and it already does pathetic damage comparatively. What GS needs is a revamp on basic fluidity and speed, with possible additions to pet synergy and perhaps a tad more damage.

Leuca.5732:

Blast finisher on Maul would give too much synergy with Healing Spring and other fields, even if its recharge was increased. They would have to adjust Swoop and Crippling throw, which would probably end up nerfing GS damage in the long run, and it already does pathetic damage comparatively. What GS needs is a revamp on basic fluidity and speed, with possible additions to pet synergy and perhaps a tad more damage.

I understand that a Blast Finisher on Maul would increase the synergy of the Healing Spring water field but Elementalists already have this healing synergy.

If they made Maul a Blast Finisher, it is common sense to nerf Healing Spring’s water field to 10 or 12 secs or increase the CD of Maul by 2 to 4 seconds

Cripple throw is just a joke for healing because its a projectile finisher which only gives regen and we have tons of that.

Swoop is a gamble and situational. If you have a target locked in the water field, you could potentially get 2 leap finishers off but if you lose your target or have no target, you are going to swoop out of the water field and it will take a few seconds to get back into it resulting in less finishers done to the water field.

I am for Anet to give a Blast Finisher on Maul and if that means nerfing Healing Spring and/or increasing the CD on Maul, I am for that because we desperately need a team oriented skill on the GS and a Blast Finisher on Maul is just perfect for that.

Leuca

Eh, Crippling Throw is mostly used when trying to chase someone down, the channeled block and small kb is what it is prized for. I doubt many use it for a regular, or even semi-regular, projectile finisher.

Swoop, on the other hand, is used tons. I wouldn’t mind increasing the cd’s on both of them if it meant giving us a Blast Finisher: Swoop to 15s, and Maul to 10s. That way it guarantees only one Leap(unless traited, and even that would require good timing for 2) and 2 Blasts.

Idk…just sucks power builds can’t really use it is all.

AydenStar.4216:

I can care less about damage

… … … grrrrr

AydenStar.4216:

I am for Anet to give a Blast Finisher on Maul and if that means nerfing Healing Spring and/or increasing the CD on Maul, I am for that because we desperately need a team oriented skill on the GS and a Blast Finisher on Maul is just perfect for that.

yeh(!)… lets nerf something (healing spring) because we buffed something else, brilliant idea(!)

as i stated in the other thread

swoop/leap every 10s
maul/blast every 4/5s(?)
15s duration healing spring
2 leaps,2/3 blasts = 1,320*4/5 = 5280/6600 healing
… thats on top of healing springs base 4920 heal, 2.3k regen and condition cleanses

would be ridiculously OP
nerfing healing spring as a result would kitten off a lot of rangers, me included

for a blast finisher to be even remotely balanced maul would have to get a massive CD increase… which would then drag down greatsword DPS as a whole… and oh look…

The problem is that adding a blast finisher to the set will do only that. They will probably not buff damage (which is what the weapon really needs) and will probably ignore the lack of fluid combinations. You want a blast finisher in exchange for nerfs across the board for the rest of the weapon and on a heal skill that has a long enough recharge to punish already. The ranger should have more access to blast finishers, but overhauling the rest of a weapon just to add that finisher to one skill is blatantly inefficient. I would advocate giving GS better fluidity and base damage while moving blast finishers to utilities in an attempt to bring some of them up to par. I can imagine tying the blast finisher to a high-tier trait, but that’s still not really solving the problems the weapon has with or without the finisher.

One of the GS’s major flaws is a lack of damage because the skills do not effectively flow into each other to do anything other than defend/annoy. What you are suggesting will only make the situation worse.

Linguistically Inept.6583:

AydenStar.4216:

I can care less about damage

… … … grrrrr

AydenStar.4216:

I am for Anet to give a Blast Finisher on Maul and if that means nerfing Healing Spring and/or increasing the CD on Maul, I am for that because we desperately need a team oriented skill on the GS and a Blast Finisher on Maul is just perfect for that.

yeh(!)… lets nerf something (healing spring) because we buffed something else, brilliant idea(!)

as i stated in the other thread

swoop/leap every 10s
maul/blast every 4/5s(?)
15s duration healing spring
2 leaps,2/3 blasts = 1,320*4/5 = 5280/6600 healing
… thats on top of healing springs base 4920 heal, 2.3k regen and condition cleanses

would be ridiculously OP
nerfing healing spring as a result would kitten off a lot of rangers, me included

for a blast finisher to be even remotely balanced maul would have to get a massive CD increase… which would then drag down greatsword DPS as a whole… and oh look…

Or you could have an increased cooldown, with an appropriate increase in damage/vulnerability to keep its overall dps the same.

Xhyros.1340:

Linguistically Inept.6583:

AydenStar.4216:

I can care less about damage

… … … grrrrr

AydenStar.4216:

I am for Anet to give a Blast Finisher on Maul and if that means nerfing Healing Spring and/or increasing the CD on Maul, I am for that because we desperately need a team oriented skill on the GS and a Blast Finisher on Maul is just perfect for that.

yeh(!)… lets nerf something (healing spring) because we buffed something else, brilliant idea(!)

as i stated in the other thread

swoop/leap every 10s
maul/blast every 4/5s(?)
15s duration healing spring
2 leaps,2/3 blasts = 1,320*4/5 = 5280/6600 healing
… thats on top of healing springs base 4920 heal, 2.3k regen and condition cleanses

would be ridiculously OP
nerfing healing spring as a result would kitten off a lot of rangers, me included

for a blast finisher to be even remotely balanced maul would have to get a massive CD increase… which would then drag down greatsword DPS as a whole… and oh look…

Or you could have an increased cooldown, with an appropriate increase in damage/vulnerability to keep its overall dps the same.

except the cooldown i would suggest would be 25s+ which is multiplying damage by 4/5… which would probably put it in one shot territory…

Xhyros.1340:

Or you could have an increased cooldown, with an appropriate increase in damage/vulnerability to keep its overall dps the same.

Increasing numerical dps and recharges drastically affects the GS’s position as a defensive utility weapon, not to mention kills any sort of hope the weapon has of pumping dps with such highly telegraphed burst and such a slow auto attack. They need to fix basic QoL before thinking of adding finishers or revamping recharges.

AydenStar.4216:

At this moment in time, I am unsure the direction ANet has for the Ranger in the upcoming patches but I would like to express my views of introducing a Blast Finisher on Maul.

im all for making maul a blast finisher, but I think your appeal is largely groundless. the only way you are going to see rangers welcome in hardcore wvw zergs is by nerfing other classes or changing spirit functionality.

hardcore wvw is composed of “Save Yourself” stacking through guardians, might stacking in an ele’s fire field, then running through the other blob like a bunch of trained seals with down syndrome. stop, stack, blast, balance this ball on your nose, repeat until your commander begrudgingly approves of the performance and attributes the success to his “leadership.” congratulations, you’re a red guard now.

rangers having another blast finisher doesn’t make them more needed, because the blasters are already in the zerg. rangers can just drop the spring and shut up for all the commander cares.

inevitable wow comparison: the only way wow was ever able to achieve balanced raid compositions was by making buffs class and spec specific. wvw is the raiding environment of GW2 (eat it carebears), yet 1 class brings everything but combos and veil.

if ranger spirits were changed to auras that radiated from the ranger (and likewise, the on demand effects did also), that would give the ranger far more of a place in hardcore wvw than a maul finisher.

I understand adding a Blast Finisher to Maul with the leap finisher on Swoop would be a bit OP but I would trade the leap finisher on Swoop for a Blast Finisher on Maul any day of the week.

My issue with the Ranger is the lack of team synergy out of spvp. Rangers can live without the leap finisher on Swoop, need the Blast Finisher on Maul to be more of a team player.

Adding more damage to the GS could help the profession out in the short term but if ANet finally overhaul the pets and F2 mechanics, the GS will be OP for sure.

Also, trading the leap finisher on Swoop for a Blast Finisher on Maul would give us a way to heal our pets outside of BM traits or our healing skills.

Raven.9603:

AydenStar.4216:

At this moment in time, I am unsure the direction ANet has for the Ranger in the upcoming patches but I would like to express my views of introducing a Blast Finisher on Maul.

im all for making maul a blast finisher, but I think your appeal is largely groundless. the only way you are going to see rangers welcome in hardcore wvw zergs is by nerfing other classes or changing spirit functionality.

hardcore wvw is composed of “Save Yourself” stacking through guardians, might stacking in an ele’s fire field, then running through the other blob like a bunch of trained seals with down syndrome. stop, stack, blast, balance this ball on your nose, repeat until your commander begrudgingly approves of the performance and attributes the success to his “leadership.” congratulations, you’re a red guard now.

rangers having another blast finisher doesn’t make them more needed, because the blasters are already in the zerg. rangers can just drop the spring and shut up for all the commander cares.

inevitable wow comparison: the only way wow was ever able to achieve balanced raid compositions was by making buffs class and spec specific. wvw is the raiding environment of GW2 (eat it carebears), yet 1 class brings everything but combos and veil.

if ranger spirits were changed to auras that radiated from the ranger (and likewise, the on demand effects did also), that would give the ranger far more of a place in hardcore wvw than a maul finisher.

Trust me, I am upset that ANet gave all the utility and team synergy too Guardians and Elementalists. It makes WvW so one side. I feel adding the Blast Finisher on Maul could help the profession have more of a purpose in group play and have player debate either to bring a Guardian or a Ranger.

I have argued for Ranger’s Spirits to be a radius buff coming directly from the Ranger but they likely hood of that is propably 0.

Guradian hammer gets a blast finisher every 5 or less seconds…and they have near limitless light and fire fields to throw out.

AydenStar.4216:

Trust me, I am upset that ANet gave all the utility and team synergy too Guardians and Elementalists. It makes WvW so one side. I feel adding the Blast Finisher on Maul could help the profession have more of a purpose in group play and have player debate either to bring a Guardian or a Ranger.

I understand what you’re saying, but the other posters are right. Putting a blast finisher on Maul would not create any kind of debate in organized guilds about whether to use a guardian or a ranger in competitive WvW play. The correct answer would still be guardian, every single time.

The reason for this is because guardians already have an incredibly good blast finisher (with a 5-second cooldown) and most high-end WvW guilds recruit and run as many guardians as they possibly can. If the guild leader thinks they don’t have enough blasts, they’ll recruit another guardian and get a blast as good as any in the game plus all the myriad other useful stuff a guardian can do that no other class can. Look at engineers: they already have tons of blast finishers but don’t get a very enthusiastic welcome from most high-end guilds either.

Nerfing Healing Spring and giving us another blast finisher would actually make the situation worse because right now water fields are one of the very few useful support functions a guardian can’t do. If rangers are ever going to find a place in high-end organized guild play it’s not going to be by upgrading from “4th-rate guardian substitute” to “3rd-rate guardian substitute.”

If anything, we need more water fields and other useful things that guardians don’t have, like maybe boon stripping or smoke fields or chill. Also, make spirits work better in large-scale WvW. Give us enough of that kind of thing and maybe some guilds would consider dropping their 8th guardian for one lucky ranger.

It’s not the direction that I personally want to see the greatsword go in. I also think it would be a bit too powerful. With just Fire Trap and Bonfire, you would be able to get 12+ stacks of might pretty easily. And it would make Healing Spring ridiculously strong, seeing as it has a duration of 15 seconds.

Honestly, the Ranger as it stands brings nothing to the table and that is my concern.

Healing Spring is a situational healing; you use it to heal yourself, you could screw the group, but if u use it to heal your group you might screw yourself. Compare to the 2 Elementalists staff water fields HS is just an OK and not reliable in groups.

If you are using Longbow and GS in a group situation what do the 2 weapons bring to the table in a group?

Trap fields are situational and unreliable to count as solid combo fields and the Ranger has to stand in the field to get if off.

Like i said in my last post I would trade swoop on GS 3 for a Blast on Maul would be a reasonably switch to test. Swoop leap finisher only heals yourself which is kinda selfish. We need some that stands out nothing: most of our group abilities are lackluster and not worth it.

Edit: I’m typing this on a bus and it hit a bump and I hit post :’(

Razor.9872:

Guradian hammer gets a blast finisher every 5 or less seconds…and they have near limitless light and fire fields to throw out.

2 fire fields (on lengthy CDs at that)

ranger gets
ice
fire*2
posion (ish…)
water (water being the main difference)

and they dont get another finisher on their hammer

AydenStar.4216:

trade the leap finisher on Swoop for a Blast Finisher on Maul any day of the week.

this i could agree with

AydenStar.4216:

Honestly, the Ranger as it stands brings nothing to the table and that is my concern.

Healing Spring is a situational healing; you use it to heal yourself, you could screw the group, but if u use it to heal your group you might screw yourself. Compare to the 2 Elementalists staff water fields HS is just an OK and not reliable in groups.

it brings frost spirit and spotter… but spirits still suffer from instadeath aoes

(granted i very very very rarely dungeon on my ranger – my main in dungeons is guard, just because it makes pug runs so much easier – but…) imo its best to save healing spring for condition cleanses, when you absolutely MUST heal (chances are; other people could use the top up too) or to give group vigor without wasting the heal (if you’re paying enough attention to team dodges and have vigor on heal trait… or have a necro in the party… then they’ll be your best friend forever and ever)

… also bear… bare?… in mind that staff is the laziest elementalist weapon… good eles will be (mostly) using dagger or scepter

Guardians have a blast finisher on a 5 seconds recharge, and yet, rangers cannot have one on a 6 seconds recharge?

Lévis.5489:

Guardians have a blast finisher on a 5 seconds recharge, and yet, rangers cannot have one on a 6 seconds recharge?

this… again… read the god kitten thread, i just explained why it would be unbalanced in the post above yours.

Guardian hammer 2 is a blast…

Ele hammer 1 is a blast…

Just sayin… just sayin…

blast finisher>leapfinsiher

Eurantien.4632:

Guardian hammer 2 is a blast…

Ele hammer 1 is a blast…

Just sayin… just sayin…

guardian hammer has been adressed in this and the other thread already
lihgtning hammer locks the ele out of their combo fields… so all they have are fields they arlready placed down and then they have to get a full auto attack chain off

http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Ring_of_Fire duration 6s
http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Lava_Font duration 4s
http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Frozen_Ground duration 5s
http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Static_Field_ duration 4s
http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Geyser duration 2s
http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Healing_Rain duration 6s
it takes 3/4 second to summon lightning hammer
1/2 second for each attack on the chain
2.25 seconds before the first blast (without considering after cast duration)

But do guardians have a water field?

@ Chopps

Guardians might not have a water field bit do Rangers have:
2 or possible 3 AoE heals, a Crowd Control and give there group 12 stacks of might all in one weapon?

or

Have many passive traits that heal the players around them?

or

Endless condition removal?

I can keep going but I ll stop here

Rangers has 1(2*) AOE heal, 2(3*) AOE regen, and a leap + blast finisher-in-one weapon combo. Giving them an instant 2.6k extra healing.

*Applied by pets

we have crowd control through pets, weapons (LB, SB, GS, Spear) and Elite.

We have passive traits that only work for ourselves, but gives us massive healing.

We have even MORE condition removal then guardians, if you bother to spec for it.

Prysin.8542:

Rangers has 1(2*) AOE heal, 2(3*) AOE regen, and a leap + blast finisher-in-one weapon combo. Giving them an instant 2.6k extra healing.

*Applied by pets

we have crowd control through pets, weapons (LB, SB, GS, Spear) and Elite.

We have passive traits that only work for ourselves, but gives us massive healing.

We have even MORE condition removal then guardians, if you bother to spec for it.

Those are a lot of our inward abilities that only effect us and our pet. The Guardian skills I list above are all team oriented.

This Guardian video above is the standard WvW zerg build. In the begin of the video, he basically goes over the gambit of the support the Guardian dishes out. I have a Guardian for this reason as well.

I love WvW on my Ranger but we need more team oriented tools and group oriented passive support.

Edit: the person’s video above also has Ranger videos as well.

AydenStar.4216:

Spirits bro that’s your passive support

Tricare.2946:

AydenStar.4216:

Spirits bro that’s your passive support

LOL, I know Spirits are the FoTM in sPvP but when I talk about passive I mean through traits.

Think about this:

A Ranger spirit uses one utility slot for one passive abilities when players hit an enemy, has a unreliable active ability on 20 seconds to 60 second CD with a long cast animation and can be killed.
vs
Guardian shout: one utility slot, gives the players around them more them one buff, removes conditions, brakes stuns (two of them) and are on CD from 25 seconds to 60 seconds.

AydenStar.4216:

Tricare.2946:

AydenStar.4216:

Spirits bro that’s your passive support

LOL, I know Spirits are the FoTM in sPvP but when I talk about passive I mean through traits.

Think about this:

A Ranger spirit uses one utility slot for one passive abilities when players hit an enemy, has a unreliable active ability on 20 seconds to 60 second CD with a long cast animation and can be killed.
vs
Guardian shout: one utility slot, gives the players around them more them one buff, removes conditions, brakes stuns (two of them) and are on CD from 25 seconds to 60 seconds.

Now you’re just comparing two different classes. Would you like there to only be one class and everyone the same?

Guardians have shouts that give buffs, we can too with traits. Regen and swiftness, permanently. Not nearly as strong, but still there. You can’t compare how classes work, guardians have stuff that we don’t have, but we have stuff they don’t.

Edit: oh and I forgot, making maul a blast finisher wouldn’t do anything to help team support really. If you are being a team player, you would have warhorn on, which is a blast finisher and awesome boons. And, if you’re using warhorn your weapon swap shouldn’t be to GS because that’s just a kittenty weapon anyways.

Tricare.2946:

Edit: oh and I forgot, making maul a blast finisher wouldn’t do anything to help team support really. If you are being a team player, you would have warhorn on, which is a blast finisher and awesome boons. And, if you’re using warhorn your weapon swap shouldn’t be to GS because that’s just a kittenty weapon anyways.

Warhorn is a good offhand choice with it’s buffs and now blast finisher but adding a blast finisher to maul helps buff a pretty lackluster skill. Its vulnerability stack is small and the attack is still on the slow side, it needs some sparkle. Adding a blast finisher to maul is much better than nothing and I would welcome it.

There have been times in WvWvW where I am one of the few left after a semi wipe. I end up dropping my water field since the Eles are dead as well as a chunk of our front lines limiting the amount of blast finishers available to help us heal back up. Having a blast finisher on a shorter cool down would allow me to contribute more in situations such as these.

Do not discount the GS especially in organized open field WvWvW combat. It really is the rangers best melee weapon in that situation by far. The sword is nice but it really is more suited to skirmishing and smaller engagements.

Tricare.2946:

Guardians have shouts that give buffs, we can too with traits. Regen and swiftness, permanently. Not nearly as strong, but still there. You can’t compare how classes work, guardians have stuff that we don’t have, but we have stuff they don’t.

Edit: oh and I forgot, making maul a blast finisher wouldn’t do anything to help team support really. If you are being a team player, you would have warhorn on, which is a blast finisher and awesome boons. And, if you’re using warhorn your weapon swap shouldn’t be to GS because that’s just a kittenty weapon anyways.

Nature’s Voice was a band-aid ANet put to fix a broken leg IMO. I have tried Guard spamming with Nature’s Voice and its not work. Perma Regen and Swiftness is nothing special. All professions can provide these buffs themselves and don’t need the Ranger for this. The funny thing is, the only good use of Guard spamming with Nature’s Voice is to moving a dolyak from the supply camp into a keep better than any other class can.

I compared spirits to Guardian shouts because comparing Ranger shouts to Guardian shouts is similar to comparing apples to oranges. Ranger are so lackluster in the eyes of players because most of our support is inward and not outward towards the group. Also, another reason why I compare Ranger’s to Guardians is because Guardians are always super stacked(WvW)/needed in most game modes compared to the other professions.