Guild Wars 2

…with my Ranger is honestly the fact that we do not have a one-handed melee weapon viable in large fights. We have some decent off-hand skills I would really love to use with my team yet the only weapons I can use with them are 1.) The axe or 2.) The sword. Why is this a huge problem for me? The axe is a decent and unique weapon but functions the same way every other projectile weapon does; It requires a target. You can’t just run and throw some axes at foes like you can run and expect to hit with a melee weapon. That brings us to the sword. What’s my big deal with the sword? It too requires a target. Perhaps the only melee weapon in the game that requires a target. In addition to requiring a target, every skill on it’s bar has predefined movement paths on them. This is a massive problem in numerous circumstances from fighting near a ledge, in large groups in WvW, and anything that very specific positioning comes into play. It also prevents the use of my dodge mechanic more often then not which is also a huge problem. (Don’t even say “Take #1 off AA dur-dur.” Even if it is it still wont let you dodge in the middle of the animations.)

There isn’t really a way around this at all and that’s why it’s honestly my biggest problem. Either give up the use of off-hands entirely, redesign weapon skills, or add a new melee weapon? Which one do you think is more likely? The one that means less word for the Devs. I’m not saying they’re lazy, I’m just saying they’re much more focused on new and irrelevant (events are great, I mean things like Southsun) content than they are improving on their product for whatever reason.

Is it wrong for me to hate a weapon that literally has only predefined movement options? I thought we got rid of that after the last game. I understand there are some really good times for the sword and I’ve even praised it after many of them but that doesn’t change the fact the sword is very static. Sure it moves you around a lot but how much of that moving are you doing as opposed to the skills? It’s a false dynamic and as much as I think they’re all cool ideas I just cannot support it.

I don’t expect anything to improve this situation at all anytime soon which is why it’s my “One big problem”. It isn’t a broken trait and it isn’t a glitch. Put simply, in my very honest opinion, it’s very poor and lazy design. Ranger has a lot of problems that’s for sure but most of them are just poor traits, lack-luster utility skills which you can expect to eventually see minor tweaks to stuff but a whole weapon rework? I doubt it, despite the fact it’s only 3 whole skills.

I’ll be honest, this wouldn’t be such a problem to me personally if I didn’t feel I had to be next to my team to support them. Traps are short range, Muddy Terrain is short range, spirits have the range of a child throwing a bowling ball (not to mention their completely useless abilities). Pets die faster than you can blink so they must be kept near you negating any party effect they might have. My water field (which is the only reason any tolerates a Ranger) is PBAoE. All of this forcing me to be close to my party.

I want to be in the crazy chaotic fray. I want to fight alongside and support my teammates. That or I want to do my job at range. Why does it seem that as a Ranger, who forgive me if I’m wrong, should be very adaptable I feel like I actually have no options?

I just wanted to say that I find the sword to work, for me, much better without a target. The downside is that this requires significantly more effort to get it to do what you want. For some, that may be enough to discard it completely.

For my playstyle, it becomes more and more effective the more people there are.

Overall, I tend to use the greatsword more, because I have ended up liking the animations better, but I find the sword incredibly effective when used properly.

Castaliea.3156:

I want to be in the crazy chaotic fray.

this is probably going to sound antagonistic, but, internet.

1. sword doesnt require a target for anything but the followups on the sword-1 chain if you fail to hit something. meaning every single button works just fine without a target. it is a fantastic weapon. the only downside i can really see is that it has a shorter reach and cleave range than GS.

2. when was the last time you were grateful for another players spells, and why? i am occasionally grateful for a well timed mesmer or thief group stealth, but if i dont get it i dont blame them for not looking out for me. likewise, i am occasionally grateful for a healing spring, but i have never had a condition on me and thought “kitten , better go find a healing spring somewhere in this battle!”
No one cares about your healing spring but you. This is selfish game, even when it comes to group support.

3. If you are having trouble hitting stuff in the fray, maybe try other choices. this (http://youtu.be/l5jo0joBlyg) is a longbow/gs ranger build from Riot gaming, it works VERY well in groups. It’s not terrible solo but their are better choices, but you sound like a group kind of guy. You can move things around if you want, what really makes his build is omen of clarity combo, greatsword mobility/cleave and piercing arrows.

I think what I meant with “requires a target” was lost on you Raven. Any weapon you can swing or throw at foes without a target. The problem with the sword I was trying to convey with “requires a target” is that it is very much a skirmishing weapon and the skills are designed as such. If I’m running through a group with my allies swinging as I go; I hit, stop in place to kick, then leap. There is a complete lack of control. It is all predetermined movement. “Clicking a button without a target” isn’t even a thing and to assume, despite everything said, you still thought I was simply talking about pushing buttons is rather silly. Second, no one cares about my healing spring but me? You obviously have absolutely no idea how game mechanics work (or here is a hint, “combo”) and sure enough your #3 point is “use another weapon” which again, sure enough, ignores my entire first paragraph. Lol.
This is probably going to sound antagonistic, but, internet.

As for you Tulu I appreciate your input and I do agree that the sword has it’s time when it shines but when I’m running through a group of 30+ foes personal control is a must and the sword just doesn’t cut it. I would like to use some of the off-hand abilities in those situations but continuing to select targets for projectiles is not really an option and the sword drastically limits my control. It has it’s uses and I’m not calling it kittenty, I just calling it circumstantial and trying to point out a hole in design that is really putting me out personally.

Sword in zerg means few bags but whatever it’s your time to waste :p (I run sword in zerg lol). Umm..yeah I don’t know. I’ll take new weapons, why not?

Castaliea.3156:

As for you Tulu I appreciate your input and I do agree that the sword has it’s time when it shines but when I’m running through a group of 30+ foes personal control is a must and the sword just doesn’t cut it. I would like to use some of the off-hand abilities in those situations but continuing to select targets for projectiles is not really an option and the sword drastically limits my control. It has it’s uses and I’m not calling it kittenty, I just calling it circumstantial and trying to point out a hole in design that is really putting me out personally.

I think the main issue is that as a Ranger, we just dont have the best abilities to truly “zerg.” Our best option is actually a trait (piercing arrows), and Barrage (LB 5).

So, what I found was that by being as annoying as possible, I tend to draw a lot of fire. If you build right (not just bunker, as I actually run pretty glassy), you can basically distract the opponents while your team goes to town.

I will say though, without a target, the sword gives unparalleled ability to wade through a zerg (mostly) unharmed. It really takes a lot of practice to get it down though, and sword 3 is not particularly useful in large engagements.

What I do, is I tend to put my target options on “autolock,” which only selects a target while you hold a button down. When you release the key, it untargets. This setting also allows you to deselect your current target by just pressing it. By using this, and selective clicking of opponents, you can really achieve some cool things. Most often, I have no target selected for the first two parts of the auto attack, then I select a target on the opposite side of the zerg for the third part (the leap). Then, rinse and repeat. This allows you to bounce out of melee range and into a different part of the zerg before most can react. Usually…

Use a Greatsword, and Spam the 1 key

Tuluum.9638:

Castaliea.3156:

As for you Tulu I appreciate your input and I do agree that the sword has it’s time when it shines but when I’m running through a group of 30+ foes personal control is a must and the sword just doesn’t cut it. I would like to use some of the off-hand abilities in those situations but continuing to select targets for projectiles is not really an option and the sword drastically limits my control. It has it’s uses and I’m not calling it kittenty, I just calling it circumstantial and trying to point out a hole in design that is really putting me out personally.

I think the main issue is that as a Ranger, we just dont have the best abilities to truly “zerg.” Our best option is actually a trait (piercing arrows), and Barrage (LB 5).

So, what I found was that by being as annoying as possible, I tend to draw a lot of fire. If you build right (not just bunker, as I actually run pretty glassy), you can basically distract the opponents while your team goes to town.

I will say though, without a target, the sword gives unparalleled ability to wade through a zerg (mostly) unharmed. It really takes a lot of practice to get it down though, and sword 3 is not particularly useful in large engagements.

What I do, is I tend to put my target options on “autolock,” which only selects a target while you hold a button down. When you release the key, it untargets. This setting also allows you to deselect your current target by just pressing it. By using this, and selective clicking of opponents, you can really achieve some cool things. Most often, I have no target selected for the first two parts of the auto attack, then I select a target on the opposite side of the zerg for the third part (the leap). Then, rinse and repeat. This allows you to bounce out of melee range and into a different part of the zerg before most can react. Usually…

That sounds like a really helpful trick. I’m glad you are happy with your sword. For me it really just comes down to the whole predetermined movement feature on every skill. I just can’t get behind that from a design point of view. All in all I just wish I had a more freely controllable melee weapon that allowed the use of off-hands. There was some thread suggesting weapons like whips or something which really got me longing (more than normal) for a weapon which let me decide how to move while using skills.

Again though, I wouldn’t care as much if I felt I could also play my support role from afar as well instead of being forced up close by every other skill available to me.

If I could suggest new mainhand weapon and developpers hears me:
I’m not sure if that would be same thing as thread autor intended but I would be good think to introduce a dagger mainhand as “AoE poison + more and more evades”
no idea for 1 skill but for 3 I had one: [name of skill] whirl in place while gaining stability and poison nearby foes. You have 50(70)% chance to evade any atacks
that would be channel skill and not sure if better would be 50% chance to evade to 70.
as for now I’m not sure if that stability+evade chance wouldn’t be considered as OP.

Castaliea.3156:

I think what I meant with “requires a target” was lost on you Raven. .

I read your whole post man. You yourself came to the conclusion that the functionality of the 1handeds was not bugged or flawed and that it was probably never going to be changed. That really only leaves you with 1 option: another weapon. You suggest (sort of) a new weapon be added. It sounded like what you really wanted was tags though (i mean why else would someone run around swinging a sword but not want to be bothered with targeting or falling into an attack sequence?), so I suggested a build that was well suited for tagging.

Everyone knows how combo fields work. The point is that people (in my experience) dont often go out of their way to cross combo in the midst of WvW combat, or even to just take advantage of friendly area fields (pve or pre-combat might stacking is another story). if in your experience that is the opposite, then keep on rolling man.

Raven.9603:

Castaliea.3156:

I think what I meant with “requires a target” was lost on you Raven. .

I read your whole post man. You yourself came to the conclusion that the functionality of the 1handeds was not bugged or flawed and that it was probably never going to be changed. That really only leaves you with 1 option: another weapon. You suggest (sort of) a new weapon be added. It sounded like what you really wanted was tags though (i mean why else would someone run around swinging a sword but not want to be bothered with targeting or falling into an attack sequence?), so I suggested a build that was well suited for tagging.

Everyone knows how combo fields work. The point is that people (in my experience) dont often go out of their way to cross combo in the midst of WvW combat, or even to just take advantage of friendly area fields (pve or pre-combat might stacking is another story). if in your experience that is the opposite, then keep on rolling man.

This !
If you want tags, we have ways to get them (traps, other weapons). In battle, you don’t have time to care about combo fields or healing others.If when you heal yourself that saves someone else, it’s great, but don’t count on it…just survive, dodge, and deal your damage. Dead people don’t do damage.

Fenrir.6183:

Raven.9603:

Castaliea.3156:

I think what I meant with “requires a target” was lost on you Raven. .

I read your whole post man. You yourself came to the conclusion that the functionality of the 1handeds was not bugged or flawed and that it was probably never going to be changed. That really only leaves you with 1 option: another weapon. You suggest (sort of) a new weapon be added. It sounded like what you really wanted was tags though (i mean why else would someone run around swinging a sword but not want to be bothered with targeting or falling into an attack sequence?), so I suggested a build that was well suited for tagging.

Everyone knows how combo fields work. The point is that people (in my experience) dont often go out of their way to cross combo in the midst of WvW combat, or even to just take advantage of friendly area fields (pve or pre-combat might stacking is another story). if in your experience that is the opposite, then keep on rolling man.

This !
If you want tags, we have ways to get them (traps, other weapons). In battle, you don’t have time to care about combo fields or healing others.If when you heal yourself that saves someone else, it’s great, but don’t count on it…just survive, dodge, and deal your damage. Dead people don’t do damage.

This is what you all as Rangers come back with? That Healing Spring doesn’t matter to my team at all and that I simply care about tags? Excuse me for a second… For fluffy kittens sake.

1.) Healing Spring-> Regen + Condition Removal + Long Water Field + Optional Vigor + Teammates Blast Finisher = entire party full HP.
I play in T1 WvW and the only reason, and I mean only reason, Rangers are even tolerated is because of their superb water field. (Lame as hell but sadly true)
2.) It’s not about tags it’s about controlling my character and not having a computer set me on predefined movement paths that may or may not put me in locations I don’t want to be in. When you’re running tight with a group and all of a sudden leap in any direction and become separated…you’re dead.
3.) A solution is not “Use another weapon”. I specifically said at the very beginning I’d like to incorporate some of the offhand skills but I can’t because the functionality of the two main-hands that allow the use of off-hands don’t suit how I play with my allies nor do my utility or heal skill skills have the range to be remotely useful if I chose to attack at a distance. That’s why is “My big problem…” because it’s a personal issue I can’t fix nor do I see it ever being fixed.

Edit:
Look, I’m sorry for the rage but this is something that I feel strongly about and is really detracting from my personal enjoyment (#3 in the above post). If the solution was to use another weapon or not give a kitten about my team it wouldn’t be a problem. Is it wrong for me to want a one-handed weapon that I don’t have to target like the axe and every skill controls my movement like the sword? Is it wrong that I find that problematic? Tulu’s was a nice post, he explains how he personally deals with the weapon and how he’s come to value it. It had ways that, as a player, you can overcome the shortcomings of a weapon. It wasn’t “fk your team, fk everything you said, use another weapon.”

Castaliea.3156:

This is what you all as Rangers come back with? That Healing Spring doesn’t matter to my team at all and that I simply care about tags? Excuse me for a second… For fluffy kittens sake.

1. Like I said, everyone knows what the combo fields do and what the benefiets are, its just that other players dont really go out of their way to take advantage of combo fields they didnt make themselves. For example, seeing elemtalists combo up some might stacks from their own fields is normal, but I’ve never seen people intentionally go out of their way to combo in my healing spring or bonfire or flame/frost trap. I do all the time, but they are my fields. Its not implying fk your team, its implying that teammates dont take advantage of the fields because they usually dont take the time to look for them.

what do you mean by people dont tolerate rangers in wvw for any reason other than healingspring? People who have guilds play with their guildies. People who dont (or have small guilds) run to a commander tag. Is the commander going to say “get away from me unless you have healing spring?” Is the guild not going to allow a ranger because its not running healing spring?

I’m also pretty sure anet said their are no more tiers now that they are on the more volatile matchup system. -SBI, 13 weeks of “tier 1”

2. My fault then. It sounded like it was about tags.

3. The solution is either use another weapon or we need to be given a new one eventually. But if you dont see it that way, then there really was no right answer for anyone to give you.

Raven.9603:

1. Like I said, everyone knows what the combo fields do and what the benefiets are, its just that other players dont really go out of their way to take advantage of combo fields they didnt make themselves. For example, seeing elemtalists combo up some might stacks from their own fields is normal, but I’ve never seen people intentionally go out of their way to combo in my healing spring or bonfire or flame/frost trap. I do all the time, but they are my fields. Its not implying fk your team, its implying that teammates dont take advantage of the fields because they usually dont take the time to look for them.

3. The solution is either use another weapon or we need to be given a new one eventually. But if you dont see it that way, then there really was no right answer for anyone to give you.

1.) Combo fields are an integral part of coordinated play before, during, and after combat in WvW. Frankly you play with/against people who are not taking advantage of that in large scale fights they are missing out.

3.) I wasn’t looking for a right “answer”. I was wait for it…complaining. Yes I was complaining that I am unhappy and decided to back it up with a “why”. Tulu made a great post. Did he try fix anything with my weapon choice or playstyle? No he simply stated how he personally deals with what I was describing and his success.

You and others came in here, tried to solve my problem which many, many times I describe as a personal issue of not being happy with my options. How? Wait for it….With things I’ve already, in my first post, explained why they don’t help me with this particular problem.

Castaliea.3156:

1.) Combo fields are an integral part of coordinated play before, during, and after combat in WvW. Frankly you play with/against people who are not taking advantage of that in large scale fights they are missing out.

No, they don’t. Gameplay is too fast for fields to make a big impact in wvw’s big fights. Oh sure, if you play like 10 vs 10, it might change the result, but in a 50 vs 50 fight, it won’t do much. Movement, staying alive and dodging the aoes, healing yourself while damaging the most opponents is what matters. You can’t coordinate the attacks and have someone put a field when you need it or something, it just comes down to players knowing their class and gameplay trying to do it right.

If YOU have a personnal issue with the class that you think can’t be solved, why even bother posting about it ? Go make suggestions if you want to see change and if you don’t just play another class or another game. It’s sad but when it’s not fun for you, well…it’s not fun.

@Castaliea I think I understand You a bit. In last time I when I told that with my ranger I feel bad in big zerg fight (personnal issue) I heard “what are You talking – ranger is beast bunker in zerg fights!”.
With the suggestion of bringing new mainhand weapon, I feels that we are lack of dagger mainhand (what i posted above).
but I cannot help You with Your personal issue

I understand the OP. I dislike the game play of sword for the reasons he stated, I feel axe is practically redundant when having SB in your arsenal. GS, in my opinion, simply doesn’t belong on a Ranger thematically. The feeling that I get from reading discussions on the forums (the main theme in my mind, so to speak) is that, in the context of end game PvE and WvW, we’re trying to adapt the Ranger to a roles other professions are meant to play better. In addition to that, part of our output depends on an AI, which is a disadvantage that doesn’t appear to be compensated by absolutely anything (that I can think of at least).

The problem I have is that the role it appears to have been designed to play thematically (something like a wilderness protector who’d dominate in prolonged 1v1 in a nature setting using mobility, conditions and his pet) doesn’t seem to be needed anywhere (outside of perhaps sPvP). I guess a group of rangers with complementary builds would be really scary in small skirmishes in WvW (which I don’t play, btw), but that’s not an aspect of that mode that gets any attention from what I’ve seen, everyone’s talking about the zerg action.

I guess what I’d really like to see is a game designer explaining what role we are meant to play in their mind, what Ranger’s strengths were supposed to be, and what they are planning to do with the profession from now on.

Fenrir.6183:

Castaliea.3156:

1.) Combo fields are an integral part of coordinated play before, during, and after combat in WvW. Frankly you play with/against people who are not taking advantage of that in large scale fights they are missing out.

No, they don’t. Gameplay is too fast for fields to make a big impact in wvw’s big fights. Oh sure, if you play like 10 vs 10, it might change the result, but in a 50 vs 50 fight, it won’t do much. Movement, staying alive and dodging the aoes, healing yourself while damaging the most opponents is what matters. You can’t coordinate the attacks and have someone put a field when you need it or something, it just comes down to players knowing their class and gameplay trying to do it right.

If YOU have a personnal issue with the class that you think can’t be solved, why even bother posting about it ? Go make suggestions if you want to see change and if you don’t just play another class or another game. It’s sad but when it’s not fun for you, well…it’s not fun.

The fact people are still denying the mid combat use of combo fields really just goes to show me a lot about some of the people on forums. My guild has won several heavily outnumbered fights solely because of the mid combat use of combo fields and stacking. Yet people still deny the possibility of it ever happening because they personally don’t take advantages of combo fields or run in disorganized zergs… why..why are you here?

Finally, why make a post about something I dislike about a class for legitimate reasons in that particular class sub-forum…? Why post about something you like then? Why post about anything other than bugs and builds? Forums are a collective of many different people with many different points of view, styles of play, and likes/dislikes. If you start telling people “Why post about something you like, dislike, or feel is detracting from your experience” you missed the entire point of why forums exist.

Fenrir.6183:

No, they don’t. Gameplay is too fast for fields to make a big impact in wvw’s big fights. Oh sure, if you play like 10 vs 10, it might change the result, but in a 50 vs 50 fight, it won’t do much. Movement, staying alive and dodging the aoes, healing yourself while damaging the most opponents is what matters. You can’t coordinate the attacks and have someone put a field when you need it or something, it just comes down to players knowing their class and gameplay trying to do it right.

What server are you on? I look forward to facing this 50 man team that doesn’t see value in coordinated combo fields.

I agree with OP about the sword mechanic. I also find it a frustrating weapon. Unhinged from auto target makes auto attack better, but the choreographed moves on 2 & 3 are detrimental to many situations and really isolated in usefulness to 1v1.

I was theory crafting with a guildy last night about rangers in zergbusting and we both said the same thing, another main hand option would help a lot. Offhand weapons we have are very attractive, and axe is ok, but sword just doesn’t do it…

Castaliea.3156:

Fenrir.6183:

Castaliea.3156:

1.) Combo fields are an integral part of coordinated play before, during, and after combat in WvW. Frankly you play with/against people who are not taking advantage of that in large scale fights they are missing out.

No, they don’t. Gameplay is too fast for fields to make a big impact in wvw’s big fights. Oh sure, if you play like 10 vs 10, it might change the result, but in a 50 vs 50 fight, it won’t do much. Movement, staying alive and dodging the aoes, healing yourself while damaging the most opponents is what matters. You can’t coordinate the attacks and have someone put a field when you need it or something, it just comes down to players knowing their class and gameplay trying to do it right.

The fact people are still denying the mid combat use of combo fields really just goes to show me a lot about some of the people on forums. My guild has won several heavily outnumbered fights solely because of the mid combat use of combo fields and stacking. Yet people still deny the possibility of it ever happening because they personally don’t take advantages of combo fields or run in disorganized zergs… why..why are you here?

I’m not denying the fact that they’re useful, i’m denying the fact that they can be made of use in a strategic way more organized than just common good practice. You can set rules like “xxx class do xxx field at this moment in the fight, xxx class will then do this, and we drop this kind of field”, etc. but you won’t be able to time those for them to make a really significant impact over the other team (that will use them as well in a non organized way). The gameplay is too fast to be able to organize fights that way. The fact that you fail to recognize this makes me wonder if you really do wvw or are just trolling.
Of course people are going to stack and of course they’re going to use fields. Are they going to win because they did it in a more organized way than the other team ? No.

This game is not world of warcraft and it’s not everquest. Fights are way shorter and require more mobility (dodge being a big factor here). This leads to fields not being used to their maximum like buffs, debuffs and such in other games.
In eq for instance, you need to debuff the magic resistance of enemies, then you need to slow their attacks (shaman spell), etc.
Here, while you can have good practices and habits, you can’t really plan the fights like in other games because they are much faster, and rely more on reflexes and tactics than strategy.

Fenrir.6183:

Castaliea.3156:

Fenrir.6183:

Castaliea.3156:

1.) Combo fields are an integral part of coordinated play before, during, and after combat in WvW. Frankly you play with/against people who are not taking advantage of that in large scale fights they are missing out.

No, they don’t. Gameplay is too fast for fields to make a big impact in wvw’s big fights. Oh sure, if you play like 10 vs 10, it might change the result, but in a 50 vs 50 fight, it won’t do much. Movement, staying alive and dodging the aoes, healing yourself while damaging the most opponents is what matters. You can’t coordinate the attacks and have someone put a field when you need it or something, it just comes down to players knowing their class and gameplay trying to do it right.

The fact people are still denying the mid combat use of combo fields really just goes to show me a lot about some of the people on forums. My guild has won several heavily outnumbered fights solely because of the mid combat use of combo fields and stacking. Yet people still deny the possibility of it ever happening because they personally don’t take advantages of combo fields or run in disorganized zergs… why..why are you here?

I’m not denying the fact that they’re useful, i’m denying the fact that they can be made of use in a strategic way more organized than just common good practice. You can set rules like “xxx class do xxx field at this moment in the fight, xxx class will then do this, and we drop this kind of field”, etc. but you won’t be able to time those for them to make a really significant impact over the other team (that will use them as well in a non organized way). The gameplay is too fast to be able to organize fights that way. The fact that you fail to recognize this makes me wonder if you really do wvw or are just trolling.
Of course people are going to stack and of course they’re going to use fields. Are they going to win because they did it in a more organized way than the other team ? No.

I’m sorry but it’s painfully clear you have absolutely no idea how well coordinated teams function and are quite dogmatic about accepting it. Perhaps you are the troll here.

FYI
Yes it does go something like, “Push in! Okay, get that water field down. Stack on me. Get those blasts goin! Good, keep pushing.” all in the middle of everything else that is going on. Yes it’s fast paced, well coordinated, and requires many people working in tandem. Sorry you think that’s impossible because you’re missing out.

Did you even read my message ? I describe this kind of situations. Yes, people will drop fields. Will other people have the time to use them ? Probably not, or not much. So all in all, they won’t have such a big impact as you seem to believe they do.
What has impact is sticking together, following the same tactic, moving fast and avoiding AoEs. Obviously when you stack together, the area heals will heal everybody.

Re-read my previous post please, then answer me.
And fyi i usually play in well coordinated teams, my server is in top tier in europe for a reason.

Fenrir.6183:

Did you even read my message ? I describe this kind of situations. Yes, people will drop fields. Will other people have the time to use them ? Probably not, or not much. So all in all, they won’t have such a big impact as you seem to believe they do.
What has impact is sticking together, following the same tactic, moving fast and avoiding AoEs. Obviously when you stack together, the area heals will heal everybody.

Re-read my previous post please, then answer me.
And fyi i usually play in well coordinated teams, my server is in top tier in europe for a reason.

You seem to be talking about the same thing, but have different subjective interpretations of their meaning. Its a bit pointless, tbh, and its definitely off topic.

Anywho, there are a lot of mixed feelings on the sword. After a couple dozen hours of practice, I felt like I had the basics down. I havent found another weapon on another class that requires this. So, perhaps some attention does need to be paid to the sword in some regard. What many request on it I flat out do NOT agree with, but that doesnt mean a real compromise doesnt exist. When the GS was buffed, I actually have not used the sword since. It doesnt help that the maul animation on an Asura is so freaking cute yet destructive.

I really feel that rangers find their true strength when they build with a particular task in mind. With my ranger, if I am accompanied by a support guardian, I am able to create pure chaos into even an organized zerg because they tend to clump together.

I did this with piercing arrows, high fury uptime, high crit damage, and sigil of fire. I get 20% extra damage from flanking, and with a support guard buffing and healing, they enemy zerg NEEDS to deal with us. In doing so, it opens up the other flank for the main forces of my teams.. uh.. team!

When flanking, my SB will hit for 1500+ on a crit (with fury and food, crit rate is over 80%) on a fully geared level 80. It starts to go over 2k on lowbies/glass cannons. Once you start adding in life steal food and sigil of fire, it really does serious damage. Because of the extremely fast fire rate, it can be pretty devastating. And, I find that I am hit by less retal than if I use barrage. I also run muddy ground and frost trap to.. help things along.

Basically, I figured out a goal on how I wanted to help. Especially in a PUG zerg where things may not be organized, but they ARE predictable. Then, I designed my entire build around accomplishing that with JUST enough survivability to not buckle under pressure (2500 armor and… 18k health(??)).

Other classes seem to do their “job” inherently. You just build to make them stronger. I felt it wasnt quite the same approach with rangers, regardless of weapon choice. I found much more success when I went for a very, very specific build to compliment a very, very specific play style and strategy.

Fenrir.6183:

Did you even read my message ? I describe this kind of situations. Yes, people will drop fields. Will other people have the time to use them ? Probably not, or not much. So all in all, they won’t have such a big impact as you seem to believe they do.
What has impact is sticking together, following the same tactic, moving fast and avoiding AoEs. Obviously when you stack together, the area heals will heal everybody.

Re-read my previous post please, then answer me.
And fyi i usually play in well coordinated teams, my server is in top tier in europe for a reason.

@Castaliea already told about specific thing: Teamspeak command “blast guys blast” what means that all ppl that can are going on his position drops field what was required nad blast all their blasts.
with that server top tier in Europe…
let me guess You have the best number of players on-line?

Nope we don’t, we’re often outmanned since other servers are full even at nights. We just have medium pop.
And we’re using TS ofc.

@Tuluum: that’s interesting. However i’d really like to see it happen, pretty sure you couldn’t do it against a 80 men blob zerg which seem to be quite frequent now.

@Fenrir and which place in Your fight do You have?
about that flanking 80 men blob… I could be done – just more ramgers are needed

Lord Trejgon.2809:

@Fenrir and which place in Your fight do You have?
about that flanking 80 men blob… I could be done – just more ramgers are needed

Some might express trebidation at playing the ramger profession. I prefer arrow cats.

Tuluum.9638:

Fenrir.6183:

Did you even read my message ? I describe this kind of situations. Yes, people will drop fields. Will other people have the time to use them ? Probably not, or not much. So all in all, they won’t have such a big impact as you seem to believe they do.
What has impact is sticking together, following the same tactic, moving fast and avoiding AoEs. Obviously when you stack together, the area heals will heal everybody.

Re-read my previous post please, then answer me.
And fyi i usually play in well coordinated teams, my server is in top tier in europe for a reason.

You seem to be talking about the same thing, but have different subjective interpretations of their meaning. Its a bit pointless, tbh, and its definitely off topic.

Anywho, there are a lot of mixed feelings on the sword. After a couple dozen hours of practice, I felt like I had the basics down. I havent found another weapon on another class that requires this. So, perhaps some attention does need to be paid to the sword in some regard. What many request on it I flat out do NOT agree with, but that doesnt mean a real compromise doesnt exist. When the GS was buffed, I actually have not used the sword since. It doesnt help that the maul animation on an Asura is so freaking cute yet destructive.

I really feel that rangers find their true strength when they build with a particular task in mind. With my ranger, if I am accompanied by a support guardian, I am able to create pure chaos into even an organized zerg because they tend to clump together.

I did this with piercing arrows, high fury uptime, high crit damage, and sigil of fire. I get 20% extra damage from flanking, and with a support guard buffing and healing, they enemy zerg NEEDS to deal with us. In doing so, it opens up the other flank for the main forces of my teams.. uh.. team!

When flanking, my SB will hit for 1500+ on a crit (with fury and food, crit rate is over 80%) on a fully geared level 80. It starts to go over 2k on lowbies/glass cannons. Once you start adding in life steal food and sigil of fire, it really does serious damage. Because of the extremely fast fire rate, it can be pretty devastating. And, I find that I am hit by less retal than if I use barrage. I also run muddy ground and frost trap to.. help things along.

Basically, I figured out a goal on how I wanted to help. Especially in a PUG zerg where things may not be organized, but they ARE predictable. Then, I designed my entire build around accomplishing that with JUST enough survivability to not buckle under pressure (2500 armor and… 18k health(??)).

Other classes seem to do their “job” inherently. You just build to make them stronger. I felt it wasnt quite the same approach with rangers, regardless of weapon choice. I found much more success when I went for a very, very specific build to compliment a very, very specific play style and strategy.

^ Well said

I’ve found the same thing with build specificity. The problem is I tend to switch between solo/havoc/small group/mini-zerg/zerg all the time and have to stop to change my traits/weaps/utilities accordingly. It gets old fast, GW2 really needs a build saver or something.

I’ve done very little WvW but it seems to me than running through a zerg with a greatsword is a much better option than using the dancing sword. That animation needs fixing. So many people hate it and hopefully the other people will stop confusing “I’ve learnt how to reduce the awfulness of these animations” with “the sword is a skilful weapon”.

Chopps.5047:

Lord Trejgon.2809:

@Fenrir and which place in Your fight do You have?
about that flanking 80 men blob… I could be done – just more ramgers are needed

Some might express trebidation at playing the ramger profession. I prefer arrow cats.

sorry it suppose to be “rangers”

@Stooperdale it’s not about animations – 1hsword have LEAP (in third skill and quarter of leap on second) in his “auto-atack-chain”!

btw. leaping back and forth form one side to another on enemy zerg is so funny
unless I’m only ppl that charged on this zerg – in that case….
everyone that noticed me targets me and strikes me what is not so funny when that is 40% of overall zerg dmg pointed on ME.
I need yet to learn when to dodge/use evasive skills to mitigate as much dmg as possible
but I always have my greatswords

both these weapons have their advantages and disadvantages – GS have lower dmg per target but can without problem hit their more, casting gs autoatack gives You many evade uptime but You need to cast through all auto-atack-chain to get this evde – and You need to hit You enemy – so If You have bad luck and have blind-blind-blind-blind type of enemy so there are no evades.
1hsword strikes more dmg per target (or it seems so) but have lower cleave than gs, have great fall back skills, but his auto-atack-chain is thing what needs to be shut of.
also one advantage of 1hsword over gs is something with their evades (especially when combined with a dagger) that is many skill tham gives evade and even if it’s cooldown makes them giving lower evade uptime that GS’s auto that is instant cast evade – You don’t have to hit two skills to get You evade – You just need to click one button in good moment and have Your evade.

btw. I’m still up to idea of giving rangers dagger mainhand weapon (and shield as offhand but as for now nobody see how shield would fit to ranger – exept me ofc)

Lord Trejgon.2809:

@Fenrir and which place in Your fight do You have?
about that flanking 80 men blob… I could be done – just more ramgers are needed

Exactly.

I mean, going up against an 80 person zerg solo is “a little tricky” on any class. Though, I also tend to hide a lot, using both the environment and occassionally the siamoth (usually just long enough to confirm that it is, indeed, just as awkward to use as ever, lol).

Truly though, if you use the environment well, most of the players will be extremely focused on my own teams zerg and usually miss my ranger. I basically play guerilla tactics though, and its not like I try to facetank the zerg alone!

Yeah it’s true that sometimes players miss you. I mean i remember a time i killed several people from the other zerg that were a bit away from it STANDING NEAR THEM !
They didn’t even see me hit them or just didn’t care.
Pretty sure a thief group would hurt more though…all hitting the same target then disappearing and coming back to kill someone else.

Fenrir.6183:

Yeah it’s true that sometimes players miss you. I mean i remember a time i killed several people from the other zerg that were a bit away from it STANDING NEAR THEM !

Yes, especially when using the stealth from siamoth.

Pretty sure a thief group would hurt more though…all hitting the same target then disappearing and coming back to kill someone else.

I have no doubt that a full group of anything would hurt more than a single ranger with a possible guardian “sidekick.”

That said, Mightly Blow + Healing Spring is one of the best defensive foundations in the game, imo. MB has two blast finishers, and healing spring stays down quite a while.

The other advantage is that if killed, it is just one to two players out and not an entire group. It is basically used to either draw fire (which means your team now has essentially open access) or deal damage that cant be ignored.

If they ignore it, people are going to get downed. If they dont and focus fire, you are only losing a maximum of two players from your force. Usually only the ranger though.

Its just one strategy amongst many. When you start to claim one as “the best,” you might find yourself too limited against opponents who can quickly change strategy. Always good to play with a full deck of cards.

I’d just like to add that I go out of my way to jump into combo fields with my Guardian…..

/worthless2c

Castaliea and Tuluum are both right unfortunately.

I’m in a T1 server as well, and not only am I expected to bring HS(and others like CC skills), but HS is almost never taken for granted. Almost every time one is popped the blasts, leaps, and projectiles ensue. Many times it can be a tipping point in a pitched battle…just like Plagues, Banners, and Veils. Keep in mind these are very coordinated groups that are all listening in teamspeak to one commander. For the most part, everyone knows their roles and, indeed, success depends largely on that coordination…even in zerg v zerg fights. I’ve seen plenty of times when the smaller group wins due to superior tactics and combo-field usage.

But I’ve also seen HS used willy nilly where it doesn’t really do much ’sides a few ticks of regen. A lot of it depends on which servers, guilds, and commanders are involved with it.

@Obsidian that phew ticks of regen maybe be very nice when You have enought healing power
anyway is such large group that may be difficult to maintain all that cpc with water field etc. but If one of this group will manage to such great cooperative skill to make use for it – nobody could stand against them in open fight.
in lower scale (not tier 1 and with “zergs” rarely being bigger that 50 ppl on both sides) well coordinated cpc can be thing that turn loose into the win – I suppose, that if in tier 1 nobody specially use cpc-ing – that’s only cause of that in such big group it is nearly impossible to coordinating group, fight and also cpc

Obsidian.1328:

Castaliea and Tuluum are both right unfortunately.

I’m in a T1 server as well, and not only am I expected to bring HS(and others like CC skills), but HS is almost never taken for granted. Almost every time one is popped the blasts, leaps, and projectiles ensue. Many times it can be a tipping point in a pitched battle…just like Plagues, Banners, and Veils. Keep in mind these are very coordinated groups that are all listening in teamspeak to one commander. For the most part, everyone knows their roles and, indeed, success depends largely on that coordination…even in zerg v zerg fights. I’ve seen plenty of times when the smaller group wins due to superior tactics and combo-field usage.

But I’ve also seen HS used willy nilly where it doesn’t really do much ’sides a few ticks of regen. A lot of it depends on which servers, guilds, and commanders are involved with it.

Wait, there are rangers that DON’T use HS ??
This would be quite idiotic x)

My point anyway was that, even though fields do help, they help much much less than sticking together, charging in the same direction, dodging through damage and overall just listening to the commander and doing as he says. Tactics > strategy in wvw.
An on my server every commander, even when commanding pugs, are on TS.

Fenrir.6183:

Obsidian.1328:

Castaliea and Tuluum are both right unfortunately.

I’m in a T1 server as well, and not only am I expected to bring HS(and others like CC skills), but HS is almost never taken for granted. Almost every time one is popped the blasts, leaps, and projectiles ensue. Many times it can be a tipping point in a pitched battle…just like Plagues, Banners, and Veils. Keep in mind these are very coordinated groups that are all listening in teamspeak to one commander. For the most part, everyone knows their roles and, indeed, success depends largely on that coordination…even in zerg v zerg fights. I’ve seen plenty of times when the smaller group wins due to superior tactics and combo-field usage.

But I’ve also seen HS used willy nilly where it doesn’t really do much ’sides a few ticks of regen. A lot of it depends on which servers, guilds, and commanders are involved with it.

Wait, there are rangers that DON’T use HS ??
This would be quite idiotic x)

My point anyway was that, even though fields do help, they help much much less than sticking together, charging in the same direction, dodging through damage and overall just listening to the commander and doing as he says. Tactics > strategy in wvw.
An on my server every commander, even when commanding pugs, are on TS.

This is just getting plain funny yet and is so far off topic because people having to explain this.

1.) Tactic synonym: Strategy. Also, “Stick together” = “Charging in same direction.”
2.) Who are you to label “what helps less”? On top of that if your water field is so kitten unimportant why are you even on a Ranger when there are things like Guardians, Necromancers, and Warriors who contribute much more than “the lesser parts” of coordinated group play? Sounds kinda selfish.
3.) You have 3 different people telling you that combo fields (specifically Water Fields) are an integral part of that aforementioned coordinated group play and you shouldn’t take them for granted yet you refuse to accept the possibility there is anything you could improve upon.
4.)
#1.) Stick together
#1.) Avoid as much damage as possible
#1.) Deal as much damage as possible
#1.) Take advantage of your surroundings

Why are they all #1? Because they are all integral parts of group play and ignoring any of them is reducing the effectiveness of your group. Combo fields let you alter your surroundings to your needs allowing you to capitalize on them. Take everything you do with your group and think about it. Now add taking advantage of your ability to alter your surrounding and capitalize on it while simultaneously doing all the other things you thought of and what have you done? You’ve increased your groups effectiveness. If you are not actively and always doing that you are not getting all you can out of your group and that is not even debatable.

If you are going to continue to sit here and argue that any of the above statements are false then it’s clear to everyone reading you are not the all knowing EU god of coordinated WvW play you obviously think you are.

Fenrir.6183:

Obsidian.1328:

Castaliea and Tuluum are both right unfortunately.

I’m in a T1 server as well, and not only am I expected to bring HS(and others like CC skills), but HS is almost never taken for granted. Almost every time one is popped the blasts, leaps, and projectiles ensue. Many times it can be a tipping point in a pitched battle…just like Plagues, Banners, and Veils. Keep in mind these are very coordinated groups that are all listening in teamspeak to one commander. For the most part, everyone knows their roles and, indeed, success depends largely on that coordination…even in zerg v zerg fights. I’ve seen plenty of times when the smaller group wins due to superior tactics and combo-field usage.

But I’ve also seen HS used willy nilly where it doesn’t really do much ’sides a few ticks of regen. A lot of it depends on which servers, guilds, and commanders are involved with it.

Wait, there are rangers that DON’T use HS ??
This would be quite idiotic x)

My point anyway was that, even though fields do help, they help much much less than sticking together, charging in the same direction, dodging through damage and overall just listening to the commander and doing as he says. Tactics > strategy in wvw.
An on my server every commander, even when commanding pugs, are on TS.

Uhh…I don’t use HS at all when scouting/roaming. If you’re not a bunker build, why would you? TU lets a less-tanky ranger be vastly more mobile, otherwise planting HS on the ground is basically an invitation for enemy AoE spikes…which they almost always do. Mobility is king in W3, anyone can tell you that.

TU is absolutely fantastic in a ton of situations, especially roaming.

I would go so far as to say that it is better than HS if you dont have someone to blast finish in it. It does have the ability to pulse vigor and remove conditions, but for those situations, I actually find the trait Hide in Plain Sight is more effective.

Something I have wanted since beta has been a main hand dagger, I think they could do some cool things with the skill animations for it. Plus they could make it a little more standard then the sword’s movement based attacks. Maybe even make it more condition based.

Troll Unguent is largely considered by the pvp community to be one of the strongest self heals in the game.

So while Healing Spring is superior in utility, Trolls is definitely a stronger skirmishing option, because combined with regen from dwayna runes on a healing build, thats 1k+ healing per second for 10s, with only a 15s downtime that you aren’t being healed.

That means that 40 out of every 60 seconds, you can have 1k+ healing, which is insanely strong in small fights where you don’t require lots of team utility. Sure, it’s a greedier heal. But sometimes greed is good.