Guild Wars 2

I have played a countless number of games that have the traditional invisi style thief and their ability to gank other players. Which is how it should be. They are a thief that can vanish and backstab. It’s their nature, its their being. It’s what thief does.

They need to introduce a trait that makes thieves targetable within a certain range of either the pet or ranger. Targetable by the Ranger and pet, but does not reveal them. You could even further the traitline so that those in your party can receive the ability as well.

Google video ‘Knight Online lupin eyes example’ <—— That is how stealth should be dealt with. Also take note: this ability is only available to Rangers….so that makes them a necessity to a roaming party. You can also Google video ‘Runes of Magic Scout Detection example’

I think the introduction of “reveal” on a shout shows that ANET wants to take the direction of making the counterplay be more active. By that, I mean you have to predict the stealth and negate it as opposed to simply being able to target in stealth. That’s a design choice for gameplay reasons.

Here’s how I see it:

Method 1 ~ Possibly Direction Anet is taking on stealth
A utility that applies ‘revealed’ to an enemy before they stealth:
Anet is introducing a method to allow Rangers(so far) the ability to apply ‘Revealed’. This makes it so thieves don’t have to sneak up on an enemy. All they have to do is stealth themselves, then the enemy is open to their burst. Other players are always on edge, especially if they see a thief go stealth right before an interaction/fight. This allows the thief to simply play in ‘easy mode’ per say.

Method 2 ~ My proposed Direction of stealth
A Passive Detection type of Trait:
This would immediately require a thief to check the buff bar of its opponent(if hes deciding to gank a player) right before engaging. If the selected player has the detection type of skill active(shown by a boon of some sort), then the thief now has to position himself/herself in such a way as to surprise the enemy. Which is what a traditional thief is supposed to do. Plus it makes it so a Ranger can do what a ‘Ranger/Scout’ is supposed to do, scout there surroundings…

It all comes down to how Anet want to implement a counter to stealth. I prefer method two personally.

ItIsFinished.9462:

Here’s how I see it:

Method 1 ~ Possibly Direction Anet is taking on stealth
A utility that applies ‘revealed’ to an enemy before they stealth:
Anet is introducing a method to allow Rangers(so far) the ability to apply ‘Revealed’. This makes it so thieves don’t have to sneak up on an enemy. All they have to do is stealth themselves, then the enemy is open to their burst. Other players are always on edge, especially if they see a thief go stealth right before an interaction/fight. This allows the thief to simply play in ‘easy mode’ per say.

Method 2 ~ My proposed Direction of stealth
A Passive Detection type of Trait:
This would immediately require a thief to check the buff bar of its opponent(if hes deciding to gank a player) right before engaging. If the selected player has the detection type of skill active(shown by a boon of some sort), then the thief now has to position himself/herself in such a way as to surprise the enemy. Which is what a traditional thief is supposed to do. Plus it makes it so a Ranger can do what a ‘Ranger/Scout’ is supposed to do, scout there surroundings…

It all comes down to how Anet want to implement a counter to stealth. I prefer method two personally.

I can’t help but think that Method 2 would garner cries of “OP!!!” from every direction possible. I play primarily in WvW and can only imagine the QQ when I detect the other zerg right after they run through their veils, or an opposing havoc squad having been mass invis or shadow refuged. But the way you describe Method 2 makes me think that is EXACTLY how both thieves and rangers SHOULD be played.

felixdacat.3804:

ItIsFinished.9462:

Here’s how I see it:

Method 1 ~ Possibly Direction Anet is taking on stealth
A utility that applies ‘revealed’ to an enemy before they stealth:
Anet is introducing a method to allow Rangers(so far) the ability to apply ‘Revealed’. This makes it so thieves don’t have to sneak up on an enemy. All they have to do is stealth themselves, then the enemy is open to their burst. Other players are always on edge, especially if they see a thief go stealth right before an interaction/fight. This allows the thief to simply play in ‘easy mode’ per say.

Method 2 ~ My proposed Direction of stealth
A Passive Detection type of Trait:
This would immediately require a thief to check the buff bar of its opponent(if hes deciding to gank a player) right before engaging. If the selected player has the detection type of skill active(shown by a boon of some sort), then the thief now has to position himself/herself in such a way as to surprise the enemy. Which is what a traditional thief is supposed to do. Plus it makes it so a Ranger can do what a ‘Ranger/Scout’ is supposed to do, scout there surroundings…

It all comes down to how Anet want to implement a counter to stealth. I prefer method two personally.

I can’t help but think that Method 2 would garner cries of “OP!!!” from every direction possible. I play primarily in WvW and can only imagine the QQ when I detect the other zerg right after they run through their veils, or an opposing havoc squad having been mass invis or shadow refuged. But the way you describe Method 2 makes me think that is EXACTLY how both thieves and rangers SHOULD be played.

I could see the cries too. But then the meta would shift and stealthed players would have to be sneaky… crazy concept. :0

Concept 3:
Remake the stealth concept where you can see within a 250 range INFRONT of us (180 degree radius) stealthed units….

This way thiefs actually need to “sneak around” , sort of like WOW
also prevents ppl from nuking them down before they get near (since i have to admit they are kinda squishy..)

promotes awareness of the non-thief characters, and forces you to use skilll instead of pew pewing them from a distance…

I just think it should be implemented into Guard over Sic’ Em, since it’s still hard to see exactly how the reveal addition is going to work with the current adaptation of Sic’ Em, since it requires a target and isn’t AoE.

But with Guard, it could work almost like a reverse Shadow Refuge, where any stealth player entering the radius of your pets guarded area is attacked, destealthed, and gets reveal applied.

If counter stealth options are really needed at all that is. Not to say it isn’t a nice addition, but from playing on my perma stealth thief, the issue isn’t necessarily the availability of the stealth, but being able to trait for sustainability gained from stealthing with the Shadow Arts line; particularly, Shadow’s Rejuvenation, which heals for like 300 per second spent in stealth.

With a thief timing their backstabs right, they can get 900-1k health every time they stealth. Stealth, in the meantime, can also apply regeneration when stealthed if traited for it, and condi removal if traited for it, both also in Shadow Arts.

Again, not saying that giving classes options to reveal stealthed opponents and make them unable to stealth for a given amount of time is a bad direction, but the stealth at it’s core element, without Shadow Arts, wouldn’t be all that strong, since you could still whittle down the thief health over time, and all stealth would be able to do at that point is relieve a little pressure and setup another burst, instead of work towards healing the thief back towards full health.

Just a thought.

jcbroe.4329:

I just think it should be implemented into Guard over Sic’ Em, since it’s still hard to see exactly how the reveal addition is going to work with the current adaptation of Sic’ Em, since it requires a target and isn’t AoE.

But with Guard, it could work almost like a reverse Shadow Refuge, where any stealth player entering the radius of your pets guarded area is attacked, destealthed, and gets reveal applied.

If counter stealth options are really needed at all that is. Not to say it isn’t a nice addition, but from playing on my perma stealth thief, the issue isn’t necessarily the availability of the stealth, but being able to trait for sustainability gained from stealthing with the Shadow Arts line; particularly, Shadow’s Rejuvenation, which heals for like 300 per second spent in stealth.

With a thief timing their backstabs right, they can get 900-1k health every time they stealth. Stealth, in the meantime, can also apply regeneration when stealthed if traited for it, and condi removal if traited for it, both also in Shadow Arts.

Again, not saying that giving classes options to reveal stealthed opponents and make them unable to stealth for a given amount of time is a bad direction, but the stealth at it’s core element, without Shadow Arts, wouldn’t be all that strong, since you could still whittle down the thief health over time, and all stealth would be able to do at that point is relieve a little pressure and setup another burst, instead of work towards healing the thief back towards full health.

Just a thought.

IMO, the thing that makes Thieves overpowered is the initiative regen and not really the healing while stealthed. Changes to things like Infusion of Shadow, Patience, and Opportunist would probably be far more viable options than nerfing thief regen while stealthed.

But I do agree with you on Sic Em. I’m just waiting to see how they implement it. If it’s a single target skill that makes your pets next attack place revealed on the target, it’s not of any real value. If it’s changed to simply pulse an AE reveal around the pet when you use the move it’s great for roaming but of only limited value outside of small group stuff. If it’s guard like you say, and put a field on the ground in some fashion so the Ranger could counter Mesmer veils? That would be amazing.

The Ranger is a strong roaming class. I’m hoping any changes to this class either improve the power based options or make the class more valuable to larger scale and more organized combat.

@Atherakhia; Either is a fine change for the thieves. One way makes it harder to spam skills effectively, making it harder to stealth as often, while the keeps stealth but makes it less rewarding.

If it’s an effective change, I’ll take your suggestion over mine, I just want to see something done to that build, as the thief build is hardly punished for stealth, which in the end is much more rewarding than something of it’s caliber should be.