(edited by ChillyChinaman.6057)
Nature's Vengeance vs Spiritual Knowledge
All of them except Frost Spirit have internal cooldowns, far as I’m aware.
Though even the Frost Spirit now lists a 10-second “effect cooldown” in its tooltip. I don’t know when that was added to the tooltip or whether its a mislisting (that Frost Spirit doesn’t actually have a cooldown but lists one anyway), or whether it was changed so that Frost has the cooldown as well.
As for which of those two traits is better… personally, I find the active AoE effects of spirits to be terribly weak and contarary to what the spirits are supposed to do (I want them for buffs, not to attempt to throw them into enemies for a debuff). So for me, I’d say Spiritual Knowledge is definately the better one. But its a lot of personal preference I think, whether you want better proc rates on the boons or whether you want to try to use the spirits to debuff and punish (melee) enemies that kill them.
Honestly due to the 10 second ICD on 3 spirits I find no functional benefit between 35% proc chance and 50%. On the frost spirit it makes it a 5% damage boost from 3.5% however.
In a pvp context the spirits applying their short AOE on getting killed does mean there is a modest penalty for killing them at melee. Blind imobilize plus snare damage etc… It also I believe may trigger the aoe when they expire based on posts by some who use them. Which for the elite spirit could mean an aoe raise condition removal on expiration and affecting a larger area.
AOE benefits IMHO are superior with the proc chance adjustments and considering atk speed and ICD effect.
Arrys Shaikin
OoS
A whittling ranger becomes viable by forcing his opponent to whittle
OoS
A whittling ranger becomes viable by forcing his opponent to whittle
I always use natures vengeance over spiritual knowledge, punishing noobs who kill my spirits is always good!! And it boosts the radius if their buff radius…
They sing dark, delicious notes about power and family.
As their mother, I have to grant them their wish. – Forever Fyonna
As their mother, I have to grant them their wish. – Forever Fyonna
I always use natures vengeance over spiritual knowledge, punishing noobs who kill my spirits is always good!! And it boosts the radius if their buff radius…
It boosts buff radius? I thought it only boosted the radius of their activated AoE attacks.
Let me start this off by saying I know spirits and nature magic are generally thought of as poor choices. However, we can hope for changes to eventually.
In preparation for that, I was wondering which one of these traits are better.
Edit: As an side question, does anyone know which spirits have working internal cool downs?
Are you talking PvE or PvP?
Are you talking PvE or PvP?
Does anyone actually run spirits in any form of sPvP? I’m completely serious with this question. And WvW does count as PvP to me.
Are you talking PvE or PvP?
Does anyone actually run spirits in any form of sPvP? I’m completely serious with this question. And WvW does count as PvP to me.
I do, even in builds I don’t have nature magic in, then again I hide my spirits in out of the way areas so they’re either not seen or they have to get off my point to kill them, unless their ranged in which case fighting on a point immediately goes into my favor being able to Melee them and reflect their projectiles…
They sing dark, delicious notes about power and family.
As their mother, I have to grant them their wish. – Forever Fyonna
As their mother, I have to grant them their wish. – Forever Fyonna
Are you talking PvE or PvP?
Does anyone actually run spirits in any form of sPvP? I’m completely serious with this question. And WvW does count as PvP to me.
I do, even in builds I don’t have nature magic in, then again I hide my spirits in out of the way areas so they’re either not seen or they have to get off my point to kill them, unless their ranged in which case fighting on a point immediately goes into my favor being able to Melee them and reflect their projectiles…
I have rarely as well. Generally It’s stone spirit in builds I’ve forsaken toughness and swapping to it once I’m in a larger force defensive/offensive situation. It’s really all about placement and getting to nodes with favorable placement spots. If I’m using stone it also means I’ve buffed my protection duration substantially and probably have lower toughness in the build.
Arrys Shaikin
OoS
A whittling ranger becomes viable by forcing his opponent to whittle
OoS
A whittling ranger becomes viable by forcing his opponent to whittle
Are you talking PvE or PvP?
Does anyone actually run spirits in any form of sPvP? I’m completely serious with this question. And WvW does count as PvP to me.
I do, even in builds I don’t have nature magic in, then again I hide my spirits in out of the way areas so they’re either not seen or they have to get off my point to kill them, unless their ranged in which case fighting on a point immediately goes into my favor being able to Melee them and reflect their projectiles…
I have rarely as well. Generally It’s stone spirit in builds I’ve forsaken toughness and swapping to it once I’m in a larger force defensive/offensive situation. It’s really all about placement and getting to nodes with favorable placement spots. If I’m using stone it also means I’ve buffed my protection duration substantially and probably have lower toughness in the build.
I almost always have stone and as such have significant armor (3k) amounts with an additional 33.3% less damage which just makes me really hard to bring down, especially if my stone spirit is somewhere they can’t easily get to, or you kno, if they’re dumb and kill it in Melee range and eat a 4second immob (initial activation + death activation)
They sing dark, delicious notes about power and family.
As their mother, I have to grant them their wish. – Forever Fyonna
As their mother, I have to grant them their wish. – Forever Fyonna
Are you talking PvE or PvP?
Does anyone actually run spirits in any form of sPvP? I’m completely serious with this question. And WvW does count as PvP to me.
I do, even in builds I don’t have nature magic in, then again I hide my spirits in out of the way areas so they’re either not seen or they have to get off my point to kill them, unless their ranged in which case fighting on a point immediately goes into my favor being able to Melee them and reflect their projectiles…
I have rarely as well. Generally It’s stone spirit in builds I’ve forsaken toughness and swapping to it once I’m in a larger force defensive/offensive situation. It’s really all about placement and getting to nodes with favorable placement spots. If I’m using stone it also means I’ve buffed my protection duration substantially and probably have lower toughness in the build.
I almost always have stone and as such have significant armor (3k) amounts with an additional 33.3% less damage which just makes me really hard to bring down, especially if my stone spirit is somewhere they can’t easily get to, or you kno, if they’re dumb and kill it in Melee range and eat a 4second immob (initial activation + death activation)
Hmm hadn’t thought of the dual activation potential. I’m normally in spirit at most 10-15 points.
Arrys Shaikin
OoS
A whittling ranger becomes viable by forcing his opponent to whittle
OoS
A whittling ranger becomes viable by forcing his opponent to whittle
Am I missing something? Stone spirit’s Protection only lasts 1s so unless it doesn’t have an ICD I don’t understand how it can be that useful.
Am I missing something? Stone spirit’s Protection only lasts 1s so unless it doesn’t have an ICD I don’t understand how it can be that useful.
Tooltip is wrong, it lasts 3seconds, or 4.5 seconds with 45% boon duration (yes that math is wrong but it still does it, don’t question a good thing lol) which makes it A LOT better then the tooltip says it is.
Swiftness is also 7seconds pre boon duration buff, sun is 3s burning prior to condi damage, and then frost is just always 10% but has no ICD.
They sing dark, delicious notes about power and family.
As their mother, I have to grant them their wish. – Forever Fyonna
As their mother, I have to grant them their wish. – Forever Fyonna
Are you talking PvE or PvP?
Does anyone actually run spirits in any form of sPvP? I’m completely serious with this question. And WvW does count as PvP to me.
I do, even in builds I don’t have nature magic in, then again I hide my spirits in out of the way areas so they’re either not seen or they have to get off my point to kill them, unless their ranged in which case fighting on a point immediately goes into my favor being able to Melee them and reflect their projectiles…
I have rarely as well. Generally It’s stone spirit in builds I’ve forsaken toughness and swapping to it once I’m in a larger force defensive/offensive situation. It’s really all about placement and getting to nodes with favorable placement spots. If I’m using stone it also means I’ve buffed my protection duration substantially and probably have lower toughness in the build.
I almost always have stone and as such have significant armor (3k) amounts with an additional 33.3% less damage which just makes me really hard to bring down, especially if my stone spirit is somewhere they can’t easily get to, or you kno, if they’re dumb and kill it in Melee range and eat a 4second immob (initial activation + death activation)
Hmm hadn’t thought of the dual activation potential. I’m normally in spirit at most 10-15 points.
Yeah i’m 20pts-30pts in on almost all of my builds… I -really- like spirits lol
They sing dark, delicious notes about power and family.
As their mother, I have to grant them their wish. – Forever Fyonna
As their mother, I have to grant them their wish. – Forever Fyonna
Am I missing something? Stone spirit’s Protection only lasts 1s so unless it doesn’t have an ICD I don’t understand how it can be that useful.
Tooltip is wrong, it lasts 3seconds, or 4.5 seconds with 45% boon duration (yes that math is wrong but it still does it, don’t question a good thing lol) which makes it A LOT better then the tooltip says it is.
Swiftness is also 7seconds pre boon duration buff, sun is 3s burning prior to condi damage, and then frost is just always 10% but has no ICD.
This games tool tip situation is highly frtustrating. At +45% I’ve actually seen CD’s on my protection buff over 5 seconds. AKA 5 for a few milliseconds before hitting 4. Which actually does match the math of a 3.5 second duration base.
Meanwhile I know you are seeing the 4.5 timeframe.
The functional question I have is server side are we getting the full 5 or not with communications lag simply accounting for the display discrepancies.
Arrys Shaikin
OoS
A whittling ranger becomes viable by forcing his opponent to whittle
OoS
A whittling ranger becomes viable by forcing his opponent to whittle
OK at 30 I have to ask is removing poison blind on dodge that helpful;). Suicide mobile spirits shouldn’t be a trait but a penalty generally speaking.
Arrys Shaikin
OoS
A whittling ranger becomes viable by forcing his opponent to whittle
OoS
A whittling ranger becomes viable by forcing his opponent to whittle
Am I missing something? Stone spirit’s Protection only lasts 1s so unless it doesn’t have an ICD I don’t understand how it can be that useful.
Tooltip is wrong, it lasts 3seconds, or 4.5 seconds with 45% boon duration (yes that math is wrong but it still does it, don’t question a good thing lol) which makes it A LOT better then the tooltip says it is.
Swiftness is also 7seconds pre boon duration buff, sun is 3s burning prior to condi damage, and then frost is just always 10% but has no ICD.
While those numbers are certainly better, if the ICD is 10s, that’s only 30% uptime on Protection, completely ignoring the inevitable death of the spirit.
OK at 30 I have to ask is removing poison blind on dodge that helpful;). Suicide mobile spirits shouldn’t be a trait but a penalty generally speaking.
Not particularly. Poison and blind are both relatively weak conditions. If it removed more or different conditions, it might be a different story. It’s a pretty terrible trait.
OK at 30 I have to ask is removing poison blind on dodge that helpful;). Suicide mobile spirits shouldn’t be a trait but a penalty generally speaking.
If anything i can see them making them follow us default and have to trait to keep them still lol, THAT’LL be the day i table flip and punch my roommate in the face…
Am I missing something? Stone spirit’s Protection only lasts 1s so unless it doesn’t have an ICD I don’t understand how it can be that useful.
Tooltip is wrong, it lasts 3seconds, or 4.5 seconds with 45% boon duration (yes that math is wrong but it still does it, don’t question a good thing lol) which makes it A LOT better then the tooltip says it is.
Swiftness is also 7seconds pre boon duration buff, sun is 3s burning prior to condi damage, and then frost is just always 10% but has no ICD.
While those numbers are certainly better, if the ICD is 10s, that’s only 30% uptime on Protection, completely ignoring the inevitable death of the spirit.
Idk what you’re talking about with Inevitable death, i personally refresh my spirits significantly more then i have to place them after they die from an unnatural cause… then there’s the whole i know how to heal them sort of thing… you know, with our healing spring…
Am I missing something? Stone spirit’s Protection only lasts 1s so unless it doesn’t have an ICD I don’t understand how it can be that useful.
Tooltip is wrong, it lasts 3seconds, or 4.5 seconds with 45% boon duration (yes that math is wrong but it still does it, don’t question a good thing lol) which makes it A LOT better then the tooltip says it is.
Swiftness is also 7seconds pre boon duration buff, sun is 3s burning prior to condi damage, and then frost is just always 10% but has no ICD.
This games tool tip situation is highly frtustrating. At +45% I’ve actually seen CD’s on my protection buff over 5 seconds. AKA 5 for a few milliseconds before hitting 4. Which actually does match the math of a 3.5 second duration base.
Meanwhile I know you are seeing the 4.5 timeframe.
The functional question I have is server side are we getting the full 5 or not with communications lag simply accounting for the display discrepancies.
I can confirm i’m actually getting the full 5s, and not 4.5 which is why i was caught of guard (you can tell because the prot animation doesn’t actually go away until after 5s where the boons time bar is just gone after 4.5)
They sing dark, delicious notes about power and family.
As their mother, I have to grant them their wish. – Forever Fyonna
As their mother, I have to grant them their wish. – Forever Fyonna
(edited by Durzlla.6295)
OK at 30 I have to ask is removing poison blind on dodge that helpful;). Suicide mobile spirits shouldn’t be a trait but a penalty generally speaking.
If anything i can see them making them follow us default and have to trait to keep them still lol, THAT’LL be the day i table flip and punch my roommate in the face…
Agreed that would be horrible……….
Arrys Shaikin
OoS
A whittling ranger becomes viable by forcing his opponent to whittle
OoS
A whittling ranger becomes viable by forcing his opponent to whittle
I see what the devs were getting at with the trait that allows spirits to follow, but ideally we could plant spirits, then hit a button to have them follow us and another buttom to have them stay in one spot again.
But I don’t see how they would make a change like that without having to make a big change to UI and/or game mechanics.
I see what the devs were getting at with the trait that allows spirits to follow, but ideally we could plant spirits, then hit a button to have them follow us and another buttom to have them stay in one spot again.
But I don’t see how they would make a change like that without having to make a big change to UI and/or game mechanics.
well, as i said in another thread it was OP with how sturdy spirits were so having them follow you really wasn’t a downside, it was after they nerfed their sturdyness that the trait became abysmal
They sing dark, delicious notes about power and family.
As their mother, I have to grant them their wish. – Forever Fyonna
As their mother, I have to grant them their wish. – Forever Fyonna
I prefer the ability on death trait. I use a sword primarily with the follow trait. I can still reasonably support a zerg or party with 3 spirits, but I can still reasonably 1v1 as well. My biggest weakness is me losing my spirits before my cooldown is back. With the ability on death trait my enemy is at least punished for killing them, since I’m always in their face as a sword warhorn.
Also nice with the nature renewal spirit. Find yourself in an extended 1v1 (vit-toughness ranger vs. vit-toughness guardian yay 5 minute long duels!) or in a bad place against a big group, the nature spirit can either have it’s duration run out or get nuked, potentially giving you a free unexpected rez, or a free all condition removal, both are nice things have.
The skill on death trait also increases the range of their active skills too, which again is a godsend on the rez spirit.
(edited by Greiger.7092)