Guild Wars 2

Imagine if Splitbalde was the sword #2 skill and it still chained into Monarch’s Leap as normal. A 5 bleed shotgun chaining into a leap forward.

Imagine that Hornet’s Sting was the axe #2 and it didn’t chain into anything; it was a straight jump-back for a 900 range weapon so you could keep your distance.

Ranger has 2 main hand weapons. Imagine if the sword had a straight condi focus and the axe a straight power focus – no messing about.

The story behind this post is all about Splitblade. I wondered why it’s on my axe at all after the similar greatsword skill (Maul) went on its own evolution from a condi skill on a power weapon to a power skill on a power weapon. That move made sense, and it means that axe and sword are also open to refinement towards strong roles like power for this and condi for that.

Think a bit more about Splitblade-> Monarch’s Leap on a sword/dagger or sword/torch ranger. That would be a really solid melee condi option. Add in a shortbow and perhaps some traps and that’s a spec with a strong focus.

How about an axe/warhorn or axe/axe ranger with Hornet’s Sting as skill #2. A clear mid-range focus on power skills, pets and boons. With clear power alternatives for melee (greatsword) and long range (longbow), Hornet’s Sting on axe would add a gap-opener to help the ranger stay at their ideal range.

It all makes sense. Axe and sword need these changes.

(PS: if anyone does end up crying “nerf splitblade!” when it’s on the sword #2, well, let’s cross that bridge when we get there.)

Splitblade is good as is imo. Being able to stack 5 bleeds in one attack is invaluable. Axe is not a mobility weapon so it doesn’t need any mobility, you can have an OH for that if you choose and also mobility on your swap.

Bleeds on a power weapon are not invaluable.

Put them on the ranger sword on the other hand with cripple and poison, and make the sword more consistent with gap closers from auto and monarch’s leap, that would be better. For a 900 range condi weapon there’s the shortbow. Why have the axe for this?

Correct me if I’m wrong, but isn’t Ranger sword the power weapon and MH Axe the hybrid/condi weapon?

ChillyChinaman.6057:

Correct me if I’m wrong, but isn’t Ranger sword the power weapon and MH Axe the hybrid/condi weapon?

You are correct.

The OP looks just like me a while ago, trying a power build using axe mh as weapon.
While it isn’t exactly bad, LB, GS and Sword have a much better time as power weapon, axe mh is an hybrid.

ChillyChinaman.6057:

Correct me if I’m wrong, but isn’t Ranger sword the power weapon and MH Axe the hybrid/condi weapon?

Okay, so the way the sword stands is that the auto is the highest on-paper power dps weapon, but as we all know it has its issues with user-unfriendliness. My personal preference for melee power weapon is the greatsword, and the lack of a true condi melee weapon main-hand is a current bugbear. Part of my proposal is to cement the sword as a truer condi main hand weapon. In fact, it would be a true hybrid weapon because the auto would still be basically power.

The way the axe stands is that the only condi aspect to the weapon at all is Splitblade, which to be any good has to be used point-blank. You are seriously wasting your time trying to use this except at point-blank, and yet it’s on a 900 range weapon instead of a melee weapon.

The other axe skills, 1 and 3, are very pet oriented. The auto feeds might to the pet with Fortifying Bond, and Winter’s Bite is a nice debuff that helps debilitate and control. Splitblade as it is doesn’t really fit into this theme, so I propose moving it to a more appropriate weapon like the sword and taking Hornet’s Sting across to the axe.

(edit: spelling and quoted who I’m replying to)

Belzebu.3912:

The OP looks just like me a while ago, trying a power build using axe mh as weapon.
While it isn’t exactly bad, LB, GS and Sword have a much better time as power weapon, axe mh is an hybrid.

I wanted to address this specific point because you are very close to my line of thinking, in trying to make a power set (not build, but set) using the main hand axe.

The two obvious power sets right now are the greatsword and the longbow. No controversy there.

We have 4 off-hands that we can roughly split into 2 for condi (dagger/torch) and 2 for power (axe/warhorn). Now I could go off on a tangent and explore the condi options but I’m going to stick with power for this post.

I suggest that there is a gap between greatsword and longbow for a mid-range power set that has a unique focus. The HoT trait changes that are on the way suggested to me that axe/warhorn in particular would have a pet focus, some party boons, emphasis on power damage and a mid range. That’s a really unique focus, something quite different from greatsword and longbow.

Looking forward to these new possibilities then, sure, I started thinking about dropping the greatsword or the longbow for this mid-range pet oriented set. The one thing that kept striking me was that Splitblade just isn’t fitting into this picture. The skill is fine, just not on this weapon.

That seems more than a little selfish there while sword has issues, we’ve been dealing with that since launch, so to put this plainly just because you don’t like some stop trying to ‘ruin’ it for everyone.

Bran.7425:

That seems more than a little selfish there while sword has issues, we’ve been dealing with that since launch, so to put this plainly just because you don’t like some stop trying to ‘ruin’ it for everyone.

I know, right. My agenda is to look at the weapons we have and see about building a consensus for improving them by filling in any gaps and ironing out some of those irksome qualities.

While I freely admit there is a selfish element, I’m here to build consensus because I want everyone to be happy with our weapon sets, not just me. I’ve been struggling with sword since launch, too.

Now, when I see an interesting possibility, I’m going to lay it on the table and then have a conversation. It could be that our weapon sets are already perfect… but they’re not and you know that as well as I do, so let’s talk

Cirian.8917:

Bleeds on a power weapon are not invaluable.

Axe is not a power weapon. Look at the direct damage. It is 170 per axe for each skill.

This is a terrible, awful idea… It does not make sense and the weapons do not “need these changes.” I have no clue where you why any of this sounds logical to you but you need to revise your decisions before claiming things like “need” and “makes sense.”

I have nothing constructive to add to this thread because you had nothing constructive to say.

Heimskarl Ashfiend.9582:

Cirian.8917:

Bleeds on a power weapon are not invaluable.

Axe is not a power weapon. Look at the direct damage. It is 170 per axe for each skill.

Sure, the auto relies on bounces and it’s no longbow. To me it seems more about feeding might to the pet than raw power damage. There isn’t any condi damage on the auto at all unless you trait for it, at which point… shortbow.

So the axe isn’t a condi weapon either. There is an argument for axe as hybrid, but it doesn’t know what range it wants to sit at.

My proposal would put Splitblade on the sword. If you want a mainhand to pair with dagger/torch you’d still have access to Splitblade on sword 2, but now you’d also have the poison+evade on sword 3. Putting those two condi moves together on the same main hand seems like a good idea. The sword would still be an excellent power weapon, but it would also become the go-to hybrid weapon.

As for the axe, I say it has already moved into the pet support role. Ever since it had might added to the auto, people have been doing beastmasters with main hand axe because it makes sense to have a pet running around with 25 might. The axe 3 also fits that role nicely. Axe 2… not so much.

Now, don’t get me wrong… I like the sword and I like the axe, I just wish their roles were tighter and they didn’t tread on each other. So, let’s have sword be the melee hybrid with bleed/poison and let’s have the axe as the mid-range pet support.

SpellOfIniquity.1780:

This is a terrible, awful idea… It does not make sense and the weapons do not “need these changes.” I have no clue where you why any of this sounds logical to you but you need to revise your decisions before claiming things like “need” and “makes sense.”

I have nothing constructive to add to this thread because you had nothing constructive to say.

You’re not giving me anything to go on either. Maybe think about it and come back.

Believe me, nothing would make me happier if axe mh became a power weapon, ranger is my 1st and main class and the 1st weapon I finished the weapon master achievement was axe and the legendary I crafted was the Frostfang, but the thing is, it was developed as an hybrid weapon and nothing will change it.
Greatsword is a defensive power weapon, and before that the bleeding on maul was very displaced, the vulnerability was a nice change.
Sword is a high DPS weapon with focus on mobility, if you remove the mobility is will lose all its theme.
Axe is an hybrid weapon, before the update it was very lackluster but good at tagging in pve and fun to play, and it still is, but the new might on autoatack was a nice update that fit the theme of the weapon, removing the splitblade and add a power/mobility skill would also break its theme.

^ agree, I think axe is in a decent place, the might stacks only help the damage from Splitblade, Winter’s Bite is great. It is a skirmishing weapon with medium range. If it had a short duration condition on the AA, it would be perfect.

Ok, nice feedback Belzebu & Heimskarl Ashfiend.

We’ve seen greatsword and axe both evolve over time. Would you change axe 2 if you could? Imagine you could do anything with it.

Now, sword as a power mobility weapon. Yes, I agree that it is.

Sword has a lot of issues since release. The fighting style is wild, headstrong and often unresponsive. Hornet’s Sting is an odd skill that is an evade with a tell. An evade… with a tell. “I’m going to evade… not yet! Soon.” And then there’s Monarch’s Leap, which times out so fast you can’t do a whole lot between skills to make it interesting. But then that’s a whole other thread.

I guess the thing with sword is that I like it as a mobility weapon, except the greatsword is simpler to use than the 180 degree contortions and custom camera settings required for the sword. It’s kinda fun to pull off and you could argue “skilful” if you like. I’m ambivalent to that aspect. But I look at newer traits like Poison Master, then look at the sword as the obvious mainhand, and I can’t help but want it to be a lot more hybrid. That means pushing the axe out of that role – and again there’s the shortbow.

Yeah, I also don’t like sword very much, but I like high DPS, so that is what I’m using (I’m using GS / S+A).
IMO sword should be the hybrid/mobility 1hand weapon and axe be the power/mid range weapon, but the change would be so big that most of the players would complain, for PvP and WvW roam the axe as hybrid/cond weapon is common and they like it. The sword is used a lot in the PvP because of the mobility and the leap in the autoattack, so those changes would make those players really mad.

It’s a fair point that Rangers lack a true condition only weapon (other than OH weapons) since both the SB and Axe are hybrid weapons, but the sword doesn’t seem like the obvious choice to fix this with.

Axe seems like the obvious choice, since it’s already much much closer to being a condition weapon than the sword is. With that it mind, wouldn’t it be better to change the Axe #1 to give it a condition and fix it all that way, rather than bring the Sword into it unnessesarily?

I don’t believe axe main hand needs these changes. Axe it mh is in a good places. Axe is fine as a power weapon. It works meh as a condi weapon and so so as a condi weapon (kitten some condi spec use gs these are also the same people that have no trouble with either of these weapons being in bm line).

Axe has it strengths. It does well vs 2 or more targets It’s able to maintain12-14 stacks of might. Unlike most range weapon its not totally useless when a target goes stealth. The power damage output on aa can exceed that of the long bow when fighting 2 or more targets. So when you say axe isn’t a power weapon what and how are you comparing the damage to.

We also have another weapon incoming. While some of us are expecting Druid to be more supportive that doesn’t mean the staff cant be a power or condi based single or multi target weapon type or any combination of the above.

The fact that this weapon is used in both power and condi build is a good thing not a bad one.

What does concern me are the up coming changes. While currently one can fit the bm line to accommodate axe or gs what happens when and if druid becomes the go to line.

We should see what the Druid will being but currently the role of main hand axe works in power, condi and hybrid that is actually a good place to be.

What would I do if I could change anything on the Axe? (I wouldn’t change the sword I guess).

Well, I’d improve the casting animation. I can’t handle that my axe is thrown instantly and then I have to wait for ages till the character breaks out of exhaustion and starts doing something different.
If I want to use the bleed, I want to use it when I want to use it. Not half a second later. Apart from that, I find Axe to be a clear condi weapon. Every ability supports the Condi playstyle (Might, Bleed bomb, chill, weakness) while only the autoattack supports the Power one.

So the attack animation cast time improvement would be all I’d ask for.

Tragic Positive.9356:

What would I do if I could change anything on the Axe? (I wouldn’t change the sword I guess).

Well, I’d improve the casting animation. I can’t handle that my axe is thrown instantly and then I have to wait for ages till the character breaks out of exhaustion and starts doing something different.
If I want to use the bleed, I want to use it when I want to use it. Not half a second later. Apart from that, I find Axe to be a clear condi weapon. Every ability supports the Condi playstyle (Might, Bleed bomb, chill, weakness) while only the autoattack supports the Power one.

So the attack animation cast time improvement would be all I’d ask for.

Hit the nail on the head, methinks. The only improvement I would ask for would be the animation cast time. It too often ends up being just a hair to slow. Feels about a half second too slow on all 3 attacks.