Guild Wars 2

This is the most significant nerf of them all, and probably what will the relegate us out of the meta should that occur.

I understand, in PvP, that bunker druid was an issue. They had high sustain, high mobility, and high damage. After this patch, they will retain much of it, yet the CA nerf significantly reduces our overall utility and synergy with many traits. I urge you to return to the 10s cooldown, or at least a lesser number, otherwise we may be made too weak, especially considering the nerf to healing. Remember, if healing had stayed the same and only the recharge duration of CA form had changed, that alone would be a 50% nerf to potential healing in a sustained fight. I have listed numbers regarding CA forms new and old healing values below, and it seems at 1225 healing power we still lose some healing.

In terms of WvW, CA form absolutely should not be further gated by a 15s recharge. Justifying a healing druid is difficult in many zerg comps. Many guilds do not allow healing druids, and for that matter, any druids at all. I understand, however, that they were an incredibly capable roamer, and very effective in havoc squads. The other nerfs recieved by Druid should be enough to satisfactorily reduce his efficiency in this aspect. CA recharge should be reduced or returned to it’s prior form with zerging and guild groups in mind.

As an aside, here are some updated CA heal numbers crossed with old values.

Old Values at 1225 HP:
CA 1: 1140
CA 2: 1113
CA 3: 3800
CA 4: 1239

New Values at 1225 HP:
CA 1: 1034
CA 2: 1102
CA 3: 3510
CA 4: 1175

Difference:

CA 1: -106
CA 2: -11
CA 3: -290
CA 4: -64

Anet has a long track record of not caring how crappy ranger is in WvW. None of this surprises me anymore.

Nerfing the crap out of leash range was still probably the biggest nerf we’ve ever gotten in WvW aside from anet giving nearly every class easy projectile hate.

The spec was already useless in group with front line ele’s and guardians who knew what empower was.

Huh, interesting values at 1225HP. I guess they really did increased the threshold to 1500, which, resulted with single digit differences in CA1&4, a buff in CA2, and a nerf in CA3.

I didn’t think they were going to be that stupid setting the scaling so high, but after 4 years, I should have learned otherwise. lol

The nerf isnt that bad for PvE in other parts rangers even got a buff. The CA cd is the biggest nerf though lets see how it playes out.

Just means for WvW I may go from Celestial to Magi’s or Minstrel. People will still lose and be salty…

CA nerf is hard tbh, we’ll see how it plays out. Also the other buffs aren’t that impressive I’ve tested shortbow and gs maul and it really didn’t change too much

The nerf to CA recharge is maybe the biggest nerf I’ve seen yet in this game, since it affects so many things. In one go they managed to:

- Increase cd of Druid Clarity by 50% (still gated by the CA mechanic, so the 15 seconds cd is a best case scenario, may be a much longer cd than that)

- Increase cd of Celestial Shadow by 50% (still gated by the CA mechanic, so the 15 seconds cd is a best case scenario, may be a much longer cd than that)

- Increase the cd of our elite form by 50% (still gated by the CA mechanic, so the 15 seconds cd is a best case scenario, may be a much longer cd than that)

To top it of all of our healing skills in CA has been nerfed across the board, even with horrendous high amounts of healing power.

Hahaha I’m glad about the CA nerf. I loved and mained ranger from launch. And having 10 CD for cleanse daze heal stealth is broke as hell. Glad they nerfed it, with the cotw buff screw taking druid.

My only request now is for us to get a reliable base line cleanse for the Condi bomb meta. Other than that man been eating revs, guards, eles, and warriors all day.

Adapt foos stop QQing over it 15 sec cd is a good thing

Had a good chance to test out some of these changes. To each their own on personal experiences and perspective, but the increased cooldown on Celestial Form, along with the reduced healing – though noticeable – isn’t as detrimental (to me).

Was messing around more with Warhorn, which, I have to admit – the unblockable feature (we asked for one) definitely makes Clarion Bond in Marksmanship attractive. Nature Magic users might want to pick up Windborne Notes for another regeneration source or just to double-up on the unblockable and shorter cooldowns.

Only big one was Strength of the Pack cooldown increase. The ones that don’t take Beastmastery and use it are going to feel the effects from this change the most. I have a feeling that a majority of people that take it do slot Resounding Timbre, in which case, the 12s extra seconds is a lot and at the same time, minor.

I might be tin-foil-hatting this one, but the cooldown increase probably had a second purpose besides the SotP/WHaO/NM/BM template people were complaining about. It may have to do with foresight of taking Marksmanship now that Call of the Wild is more appealing. If more take Marksmanship, the obvious choices (now and once again) are Clarion Bond, Moment of Clarity, and Remorseless with the minor GS increase.

Feel free to agree to disagree, though note I’m still feeling out and testing these changes. I might have also gotten into the Anet Kool Aid as I’m starting to see what their (possible) reasoning is for these changes…

From my perspective as a druid playing a dedicated healer in one of the main European GvG guilds and from my perspective as an active WvW player healing as a druid in large scale battles, the change to our Avatar’s cooldown is a step back in the wrong direction.

The amount of damage we have to deal with is already superior to what PvE players have to deal with in most raid wings… and it’s not scripted in the same predictable way. I don’t get why we should be gated behind an increased cooldown while our avatar’s uptime may be more critical than in any other game mode. Every single second counts and this change is hurting us.

From what I understood, the main issues with a 10 seconds cooldown were:
1) Small scale battles in WvW and PvP with good damage and healing on the same class
2) Break stun, full condition clean, stealth and superspeed on a potential 10 seconds cooldown (Druidic Clarity & Celestial Shadow)

I do agree that both these issues needed to be addressed but increasing our Avatar’s cooldown wasn’t the smartest way to fix it.

Regarding small scale battles, it could have been fixed thanks to the change to healing power’s contribution and base healing rebalancing on spells. I don’t think more was needed except maybe a sharper number tweaking. After all, if you want to heal you should have to invest in it.

Regarding Druidic Clarity and Celestial Shadow uptimes, increasing Avatar’s cooldown is NOT the answer. Some of your Majors already have a different cooldown than their triggers. Adding an increased cooldown on both Majors would have been a better way to address the issue.

To ArenaNet:
You should pay more attention to what’s happening in WvW and how your changes are impacting some classes in this game mode. You should also pay more attention to GvG even if it’s not an official game mode. Just for your information, a GvG tournament is currently being held in Europe. It’s attracting quite some viewers on Twitch without being promoted in-game during loading screens

Of course, we can still play in the Guild Hall’s arena where PvE rules apply (10 seconds CD on Avatar)…

PS: WTB hp bars above my squad members head in Guild Hall’s arena.

Eleazar.9478:

Hahaha I’m glad about the CA nerf. I loved and mained ranger from launch. And having 10 CD for cleanse daze heal stealth is broke as hell. Glad they nerfed it, with the cotw buff screw taking druid.

My only request now is for us to get a reliable base line cleanse for the Condi bomb meta. Other than that man been eating revs, guards, eles, and warriors all day.

Adapt foos stop QQing over it 15 sec cd is a good thing

But this requires people to not use the elite spec which MUST be better than base ranger because it has elite in the name.

Being someone who absolutely loves being a Druid (and fully embraces the bunkery support role), having kitten longer CD does suck, but it’s manageable, I just dislike that they made it a longer CD and nerfed the healing for specs that have 1200+ healing power, but w/e.

Wondrouswall.7169:

Had a good chance to test out some of these changes. To each their own on personal experiences and perspective, but the increased cooldown on Celestial Form, along with the reduced healing – though noticeable – isn’t as detrimental (to me).

Feel free to agree to disagree, though note I’m still feeling out and testing these changes. I might have also gotten into the Anet Kool Aid as I’m starting to see what their (possible) reasoning is for these changes…

Sir you have all your points are awesome, and this what I’m trying to tell peeps you just said it far better than I can.

Ranger I think can have some pretty viable builds (commamders/zerk) deeps boon builds boiiii

But this requires people to not use the elite spec which MUST be better than base ranger because it has elite in the name.

Being someone who absolutely loves being a Druid (and fully embraces the bunkery support role), having kitten longer CD does suck, but it’s manageable, I just dislike that they made it a longer CD and nerfed the healing for specs that have 1200+ healing power, but w/e.[/quote]

Hybrid team build should scale fine just your going to have to support your templates more and rely on them more for deeps, which is a good thing because that’s how you should roll,

druid clearly was meant to give ranger a spot on teams which pre hot it clearly lacked. They couldn’t make it a top deeps class because then everyone would just roll ranger and ranger bomb everything (also I’m sure they didn’t for see pets being so bad). So we got druid (which really suits the maguma thing and makes sense it would be a healer thematically)
Also with the offensive buffs and cc it puts us in a very much needed team roll.

So ya it makes you an elite team player (fantastic for raids and havoc teams if spirits ever remember how to move maybe even for zergs as long as they keep the aoe can’t kill me that well buff) * on a side note this is why people hate on rangers cuz it’s all me me me.

This idea of having a deeps druid with crazy sustain should not be a thing (ironically this is the same complaints with warrior and guardian)

Plus having permanent af force with all the regeneration, plus the sustain on staff lead to so some very very stale heal bots in 1v1 encounters in smaller PvP and wvw. Did you play season one of PvP it was horrible just healbot eles and bunker chronos. Druid was turning into that.

I know anets original design was everyone should do everything but before you get your rose tinted classes on remember everyone only really ran one stat set back then.

Having clear rolls for specializations makes sense and is healthy for the games balance and relevance of class, and build diversity.

Just my two sense

It depends on your play style really. I personally solo roam and scout in WvW so this is a bit of a bug a boo to me. I’m sure I’ll adapt but it doesn’t mean I have to be happy about it. I think it was a knee jerk reaction rather than looking at what HoT did to the game alone with Runes and Sigils (not to mention food).

So what if I run a bunker / sustain build. I chose to do so just like those who choose to not use food buffs or learn to understand dodge or animations. Skilled players never had a issue. Bad or casual players do. Again, not a build or class issue because regardless of the class I’m playing the casual or average player is still present.

You can’t adjust (nerf) classes to fix mediocrity!

Crapgame.6519:

So what if I run a bunker / sustain build.

You can’t adjust (nerf) classes to fix mediocrity!

Yes yes you can if you run a cheese build that’s only goal is to bunker and it has to to have a trade off. That’s why anet got rid of celestial, and all healing/toughness combos in PvP because it created a very stale passive environment that’s not skill it’s just let me just sit like a bot.

Now it’s much more in line you have to trade deeps for heals and time your heal bursts better instead of just spamming a jail out of free card every 10 secs.

If you want to bunker and run around running from everything feel free but there should be a very clear trade off like you can’t kill anything. That is balance.

You want deeps well you loose sustain. Good looks anet hope y’all keep forcing druid to be a support role and ranger to be a better deeps +1 roll

Eleazar.9478:

Crapgame.6519:

So what if I run a bunker / sustain build.

You can’t adjust (nerf) classes to fix mediocrity!

Yes yes you can if you run a cheese build that’s only goal is to bunker and it has to to have a trade off. That’s why anet got rid of celestial, and all healing/toughness combos in PvP because it created a very stale passive environment that’s not skill it’s just let me just sit like a bot.

Now it’s much more in line you have to trade deeps for heals and time your heal bursts better instead of just spamming a jail out of free card every 10 secs.

If you want to bunker and run around running from everything feel free but there should be a very clear trade off like you can’t kill anything. That is balance.

You want deeps well you loose sustain. Good looks anet hope y’all keep forcing druid to be a support role and ranger to be a better deeps +1 roll

^ this is what I’ve been saying since forever.

Also I think you mistook my sarcastic comment in my last post as being serious given your post directed towards it xD

Durzlla.6295:

Also I think you mistook my sarcastic comment in my last post as being serious given your post directed towards it xD

Sorry broski, just tired of seeing all these QQers whining about a good healthy thing,

I mean they gave us a deeps boost which maul is pretty freakin useful now, and unblockable pet attack!!!!!
Freaking finally we have something to counter all the blocking builds as rangers only have a decent burst, after we burst we drop off completely for deeps.
So all these blocks and damage negation (plus everyone and there moms heavy classes are running cav trinks and high toughness builds. really really hurts us alot and now after 4 freaking years he have a decent answer to that!!

Well all the bandwagoners will either reroll or decide they’re a team player or just a bad MF ranger now

Eleazar.9478:

Durzlla.6295:

Also I think you mistook my sarcastic comment in my last post as being serious given your post directed towards it xD

Sorry broski, just tired of seeing all these QQers whining about a good healthy thing,

I mean they gave us a deeps boost which maul is pretty freakin useful now, and unblockable pet attack!!!!!
Freaking finally we have something to counter all the blocking builds as rangers only have a decent burst, after we burst we drop off completely for deeps.
So all these blocks and damage negation (plus everyone and there moms heavy classes are running cav trinks and high toughness builds. really really hurts us alot and now after 4 freaking years he have a decent answer to that!!

Well all the bandwagoners will either reroll or decide they’re a team player or just a bad MF ranger now

If that really is your answer then why have armor, food, runes, sigils, or anything else that alters stats or even a stat choice? Just WvW or sPvP with town cloths on and be done with it. Just put the redeemer in the middle of the map or somewhere else conspicuous and let us play one large FPS game.

Because someone doesn’t agree with you doesn’t mean they are QQ. Just means they disagree. Just how I see it. Like I said, no skin off my back but I have other builds.

Necromancer getting 15 CD on Shroud would be catastrophic imo. While balancing Celestial avatar is harder, imo 15s is just as wrong as necromancer shroud nerf.

What’s more making skills have a long cooldown makes battles boring. Auto attacks have become very blend, to all but a few weapons on a few professions. Increasing the cooldown of 5 elite spec related skills, is not the way to go imo. Especially coupled with an effectiveness nerf (healing nerf). They should have waited it out first.

Druid was not wvw meta, and now definitely isn’t…. And warrior. And guardian? still top of the cake… By just being mostly skill what they were after launch without serious nerf (and some big boosts). Druid CA nerf, and Signet of Inspiration are the biggest ‘zerg build’ nerfs ever, the classes both are supbar now unless using shoehorned build (magi, commanders 100%). Why not shoehorn the other profs? That is a problem imo.