Guild Wars 2

Hai guys.

I keep seeing and seeing comments saying that rangers suck at WvW, we have no AoE, we suck, bla bla bla, and I wanted to give my opinion.

We might not have the best AoE out there, but we definately have some great power with Piercing Arrows and a LB. It works incredibly good when the enemy is stacked, which happens usually when buffing, regrouping and attacking with the train.
Just imagine: each arrow can hit up to 5 enemies. All our LB skills use arrows. We shoot 10 arrows with #2, that’s a max of 50 targets in 4 seconds. #5 can hit up to 60 times with a nice AoE cripple.

And the best thing is we can do that from safety with that 1500 range! I usually look for high spots where I’m prolly gonna get ignored and just pewpew from there. It is kittening awesome.

Trust me, if you see the enemy zerg stacking up in a pixel, go ahead and unleash all your arrows on them, you’ll get like 3045345345 tags with decent damage, apply conds to them (#2 vuln, #5 cripple..) and will put most of them in combat. Add a Sigil of Fire and profit xD

And the best of all that is that we dont have to wait 30s CDs in order to do this. Our #1 will work too, so we can just spam that AoE nonstop.

So yeah, we’re not the most useful characters out there but we can deal some really nice damage without being noticed by the zerg or almost anyone.

I have a couple of videos about this so just ask for them if interested.

Greetings!

PS: I’m no way close to be a good ranger (I’ll probably post a thread asking for a build soon xD), but trust me, this works xD

Regnum.7102:

Hai guys.

I keep seeing and seeing comments saying that rangers suck at WvW, we have no AoE, we suck, bla bla bla, and I wanted to give my opinion.

We might not have the best AoE out there, but we definately have some great power with Piercing Arrows and a LB. It works incredibly good when the enemy is stacked, which happens usually when buffing, regrouping and attacking with the train.
Just imagine: each arrow can hit up to 5 enemies. All our LB skills use arrows. We shoot 10 arrows with #2, that’s a max of 50 targets in 4 seconds. #5 can hit up to 60 times with a nice AoE cripple.

And the best thing is we can do that from safety with that 1500 range! I usually look for high spots where I’m prolly gonna get ignored and just pewpew from there. It is kittening awesome.

Trust me, if you see the enemy zerg stacking up in a pixel, go ahead and unleash all your arrows on them, you’ll get like 3045345345 tags with decent damage, apply conds to them (#2 vuln, #5 cripple..) and will put most of them in combat. Add a Sigil of Fire and profit xD

And the best of all that is that we dont have to wait 30s CDs in order to do this. Our #1 will work too, so we can just spam that AoE nonstop.

So yeah, we’re not the most useful characters out there but we can deal some really nice damage without being noticed by the zerg or almost anyone.

I have a couple of videos about this so just ask for them if interested.

Greetings!

PS: I’m no way close to be a good ranger (I’ll probably post a thread asking for a build soon xD), but trust me, this works xD

i would love to see the videos

Sure :P

I sucked at the half of the second video, but meh xD

I forgot to say that, personally, I have lots of problems to target enemies when zerging. I just click and click over the enemy zerg but I get no targets, so.. yeah, that really sucks at aiming. Sometimes I even end up aiming with the camera and shooting in front of me instead of actually having a target xD

My experince of LB ranger-ing in zergs is that its surprising effective in / against pug zergs. You can often keep yourself out of trouble and pick a lot of people off.

The problems come VS more skilled guild groups, who wont let themselves get picked off out of position and will have proper gankers hunting you if you’re causing a problem.

That’s always been my issue.. its fun enough picking off random zerglings but it’s got more to do with them being too bad / poorly equipped / disorganised as a group than it does with you being a dominating presence in the fight.

Regnum.7102:

Hai guys.

I keep seeing and seeing comments saying that rangers suck at WvW, we have no AoE, we suck, bla bla bla, and I wanted to give my opinion.

We might not have the best AoE out there, but we definately have some great power with Piercing Arrows and a LB.

I’ve read so far and I got disappointed. No new insights, just one more who claims he found key to all our problems.

This isn’t new at all but the most people came to the conclusion that you have to hit something first (EE + RTW) before you can pierce it.

xXxOrcaxXx.9328:

Regnum.7102:

Hai guys.

I keep seeing and seeing comments saying that rangers suck at WvW, we have no AoE, we suck, bla bla bla, and I wanted to give my opinion.

We might not have the best AoE out there, but we definately have some great power with Piercing Arrows and a LB.

I’ve read so far and I got disappointed. No new insights, just one more who claims he found key to all our problems.

This isn’t new at all but the most people came to the conclusion that you have to hit something first (EE + RTW) before you can pierce it.

No idea where I claimed I had the fix for the rangers xD

And meh, it’s kinda easy to hit when they’re stacked.

so having pierce on arrows=ranger aoe ? Trap rangers have more aoe than that. The only good thing is that you can have 1500 range. Also a wall of reflect will negate everything except skill #5. Despite that I recognize it’s is fun to hit some targets with 2-3k in the enemy zerg:)
To enjoy aoe play engi nades or necro staff/wells

Regnum.7102:

Hai guys.

I keep seeing and seeing comments saying that rangers suck at WvW, we have no AoE, we suck, bla bla bla, and I wanted to give my opinion.

Well, that’s your first mistake! Prepare for the onslaught! Only opinions that point out how “horribad” rangers are, are allowed. If you know what you are doing, or have discovered something that works, please don’t post it here! I estimate 95% of the ranger issues have more to do with the brains (or lack thereof) behind the keyboard than anything else.

I am seriously surprised that there are more people defending Ranger now. It used to be just me and 2 or 3 other people.

Of course, there are also more people hating on Ranger now too…..

Pelopidas.2140:

so having pierce on arrows=ranger aoe ? Trap rangers have more aoe than that. The only good thing is that you can have 1500 range. Also a wall of reflect will negate everything except skill #5. Despite that I recognize it’s is fun to hit some targets with 2-3k in the enemy zerg:)
To enjoy aoe play engi nades or necro staff/wells

and a wall of reflect is only really effective against burst skills, like killshot. Because it does not really matter if you reflect a rangers AA because of this VERY peculiar function of reflected damage (only recently noticed this).

Reflected damage cannot crit if the player performing the reflect does not have high crit chance.
Now, most guards and mesmers run PVT with some zerker or knights mixed in… meaning they achieve the usual ~30% crit chance, so that they can hit reasonably reliably, yet on a reflect, that isnt enough to make it really hurt (tried and tested against p/d thieves using axe offhand while in Cavaliers + knights gear)…

Chrispy.5641:

I am seriously surprised that there are more people defending Ranger now. It used to be just me and 2 or 3 other people.

Of course, there are also more people hating on Ranger now too…..

there are more people that is even less informed then the people before, hating on the ranger now.

Our AoE is not poor. It is ok. Not amazing. Not game breaking. Not good. Just ok.

Piercing arrows isn’t AOE, it’s just a multi target hit. AOE is something like traps or barrage, neither of which do good damage ( not talking about condi with traps). Although that being said I guess it’s not really a rangers role to have tons of AOE, that’s what an ele is for =p. Piercing arrows is definitely nice, just don’t confuse AOE with a multi target attack.

Prysin.8542:

Pelopidas.2140:

so having pierce on arrows=ranger aoe ? Trap rangers have more aoe than that. The only good thing is that you can have 1500 range. Also a wall of reflect will negate everything except skill #5. Despite that I recognize it’s is fun to hit some targets with 2-3k in the enemy zerg:)
To enjoy aoe play engi nades or necro staff/wells

and a wall of reflect is only really effective against burst skills, like killshot. Because it does not really matter if you reflect a rangers AA because of this VERY peculiar function of reflected damage (only recently noticed this).

Reflected damage cannot crit if the player performing the reflect does not have high crit chance.
Now, most guards and mesmers run PVT with some zerker or knights mixed in… meaning they achieve the usual ~30% crit chance, so that they can hit reasonably reliably, yet on a reflect, that isnt enough to make it really hurt (tried and tested against p/d thieves using axe offhand while in Cavaliers + knights gear)…

Regardless of how much damage you do to yourself, with a reflect up you can’t damage THEM. So this is why AOE> multi target projectiles, AOE can’t be reflected.

I can very well say that the AoE on the ranger is poor, as is most of the design of the ranger, the price of the versatility, the ultimate generalist in a world of specialist.

This does not mean that ranger is not fun, just that the required effort to effect is askew. My first character is a ranger and that is where I have spent the majority of my guild wars 2 time (been taking a break from him more to do additional map completion, but neither here nor there)

And if the information extracted from the CDI is correct in the direction that ranger is going then rangers AoE is poor or will be weakened in favor of this idea of the single target, sustained damage, resilient pet class.

Cufufalating.8479:

My experince of LB ranger-ing in zergs is that its surprising effective in / against pug zergs. You can often keep yourself out of trouble and pick a lot of people off.

The problems come VS more skilled guild groups, who wont let themselves get picked off out of position and will have proper gankers hunting you if you’re causing a problem.

That’s always been my issue.. its fun enough picking off random zerglings but it’s got more to do with them being too bad / poorly equipped / disorganised as a group than it does with you being a dominating presence in the fight.

This is the case for ranger in any PvP scenario.

Piercing Arrows technically isn’t AoE.

Area of Effect (AoE):

A term used in many role-playing and strategy games to describe attacks or other effects that affect multiple targets within a specified area. For example, in the role-playing game Dungeons & Dragons, a fireball spell will deal damage to anyone within a certain radius of where it strikes. This term is not limited to just role-playing games, however; in most tactical strategy games artillery weapons have an area of effect that will damage anyone within a radius of the strike zone.

Area of effect can also refer to spells and abilities that are non-damaging and non-explosive. For example, a powerful healing spell may affect anyone within a certain range of the caster (often only if they are a member of the caster’s party). Many games also have what are sometimes referred to as “aura” abilities that will affect anyone in the area around the person with the ability. For example, many strategy games have hero or officer units that can improve the morale and combat performance of friendly units around them. The inclusion of AoE elements in game mechanics can increase the role of strategy, especially in turn-based strategy games. The player has to place units wisely to mitigate the possibly devastating effects of a hostile area of effect attack; however, placing units in a dense formation could result in gains that outweigh the increased AoE damage received.

Point-blank area of effect (abbreviated PBAoE) is a subset of AoE in which the affected region is centered on the character that is performing the ability, rather than a location of the player’s choosing. That term, however, is rarely used by players because of its relatively higher complexity to spell out. Thus AoE is more favorably used, especially in MMO games.

Just point that out. If anything, Piercing Arrows would be considered more like collateral damage, or even cleave (collateral being the better term).

I WISH we had a skill that added true AoE to our arrows. Maybe in that Skirmishing line that has more Beastmastery related traits than Skirmishing related traits.

You know, kinda how rangers lost that ability in the transition to GW2 from GW1.

http://wiki.guildwars.com/wiki/Ignite_Arrows

Not saying that Piercing Arrows is ineffective, but it isn’t AoE.

Our AoE IS poor. Barrage is a channeled skill that does damage over time and has a long cooldown. For it to deal good damage you have to be a true glass cannon, and you don’t want to stand in one place channeling barrage in most situations if you are. It can also be countered pretty easily by getting protection or just leaving the circle.

Piercing arrows is not a bad trait. Problem is that it competes with Eagle Eye, Spotter, and Signet of the Beastmaster. Even Read the Wind to some degree.

There needs to be some trait merging. Merging the signet traits together into signet mastery and Eagle Eye into piercing arrows (which it really should, for crying out loud) I don’t think would be OP at all.

Also IMO you’re overrating 1500 range a bit. It’s good no doubt and I think rangers are good tower defenders but in the open field you really have to be moving around a lot regardless. But definitely, the more rugged the terrain is, the better it is for the ranger.

Rangers are getting there though, slowly. My pets survive a lot more because their skills actually work now

And OP, I did watch your video. You did fairly well; the aoe damage was consistent but it wasn’t particularly high, and since the a portion of your damage potential (pet) is with you on the structure, you’re still at a disadvantage compared to say grenade engineers and whatnot. That being said, you surely contributed something, and thanks for showing stuff in action. I lament my piece of scrap metal isn’t able to record anything. Though having large fights without exploding in wvw is already a minor miracle.

In any case, enjoy your bags.

Trappers can get good aoe damage. However they take up your utility bar which is where all the stun breaks go also, making you vulnerable to all kinds of kitten.

Kilger.5490:

Trappers can get good aoe damage. However they take up your utility bar which is where all the stun breaks go also, making you vulnerable to all kinds of kitten.

Why take up 3 utility slots when you can run an engi and either use bombs or nades and get the same effects with 2 extra skills while only taking up 1 utility slot?

Eurantien.4632:

Kilger.5490:

Trappers can get good aoe damage. However they take up your utility bar which is where all the stun breaks go also, making you vulnerable to all kinds of kitten.

Why take up 3 utility slots when you can run an engi and either use bombs or nades and get the same effects with 2 extra skills while only taking up 1 utility slot?

These ’’why’’ questions are useless

The point is, ranger is underpowered. We were only in a “good” place because of strong pets (and people being unable to kite properly) and because Spirit of Nature was so strong (not so strong now that people know to interrupt it/kill it on sight, which is really easy since most classes have 25 might stacks (something the ranger can’t easily do)).

We aren’t “good” anymore, and any hint of the ranger CDI seems to have disappeared.

Ranger is prime for 1 v 1’s, but even then, there are certain things that ranger CANNOT kill (good warrior, good ele) no matter how good the ranger is.

i’ve killed plenty of eles and D/D eles chasing me one after onther , and don’t say no matter how good the ranger is .

ps Piercing arrows sat at 1500 range will only hit the first target as the arrows don’t go any ferther , you need to kiting around at 400-800 range. to get the most hits possible.
although the selected target may not be taking a lot of damage but is consistant, if any squishy armoured people walk or kite between those arrow shots will be hit for a lot more this with sigil of fire proting every 2secs can lead to a massive lazer beam type of shot criting every 3/5 people between your target and your self Delivering a very good amount of Aoe. somthing other classes have to be within 200 yards to do.
and that sigil of fire on a melee class will concentrate the damage in that Radius around your target rather than Being Spread out over the line of fire making multipul spikes hitting anything squishy while targeting a tougher.

targeting a tougher target just means we get more chances to spread aoes in this manner , in a sense we don’t want our target to die but all of those inbetween.

Eurantien.4632:

Kilger.5490:

Trappers can get good aoe damage. However they take up your utility bar which is where all the stun breaks go also, making you vulnerable to all kinds of kitten.

Why take up 3 utility slots when you can run an engi and either use bombs or nades and get the same effects with 2 extra skills while only taking up 1 utility slot?

Yea I know, but to be fair traps are bit different. With eng they take up your actions, but with ranger they are a side show. They happen automatically by pulsing once laid and you can continue with what ever weapon you prefer.

Ive played an eng and the dynamic is quite a bit different, I’m not sure I would want a “trap kit” taking over my weapon skill selection bar. I’d just like to see more packed in the traps like a stun break (since they havent seen fit to spread those to trapper skills when they redistributed those last year…why not??!?). Basically you are limited to 2 traps if you want something like LR.

Eurantien.4632:

Kilger.5490:

Trappers can get good aoe damage. However they take up your utility bar which is where all the stun breaks go also, making you vulnerable to all kinds of kitten.

Why take up 3 utility slots when you can run an engi and either use bombs or nades and get the same effects with 2 extra skills while only taking up 1 utility slot?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Repetitive_strain_injury

Even though I play an Ele now, my Ranger is still the most played class by far. Barrage had decent AoE before they nerfed the damage. I wouldn’t have said it’s great, maybe good. After they nerfed the damage, Ranger’s AoE is just Ok.

Piercing arrows on the other hand mixed in with quickness can mess a lot of people up pretty quick. Regardless of what people say, the general reaction towards getting a rapid succession of attacks is to panic and run. Barrage combined with rapid fire/piercing arrows will usually cause any group to scatter.

If we compare Ranger AoE to say Ele’s AoE, it’s incomparable. Fully zerked Ranger’s barrage does maybe 1800-2.5K per tick (if your lucky). The ele’s meteor shower (not counting tornado) hits anywhere from 7K-12K, and it hit’s far more than 5 targets due to the meteor’s themselves hitting multiple targets.

I won’t consider Rangers to have great AoE until we can shoot traps from our bows or make all traps ground targeted like ranger wells at 1200 range.

love it-love it-love it. Oh your naivety amuses me. Shooting garbage arrows that deal 500-2000 damage into a zerg only to receive retaliation damage that take chunks from your health is not going to help. It’s almost as bad as throwing barrage on enemy zerg. You’ll hemorrhage HP until you are easily spotted and killed immediately.

if thats the case its a bad ranger that does not notice or fails to check if the target/targets have the Retal boon.
its situational , normaly if i see a Nul field get thrown down by my guildies I let rip with that barrage.

Zenos Osgorma.2936:

if thats the case its a bad ranger that does not notice or fails to check if the target/targets have the Retal boon.
its situational , normaly if i see a Nul field get thrown down by my guildies I let rip with that barrage.

Brb, checking the whole zerg for retal boon. Oh, kitten, I checked that guy twice now, gotta restart.

…you know what i mean did you skip the point where i said null field..

I can’t believe there are rangers that use barrage. It’s a ~4 second self immobilize. And the damage-Oh that glorious damage. It tickles.

..you got no clue you said in a different post that you have a zerker sniper build you opions are moot.

Zenos Osgorma.2936:

..you got no clue you said in a different post that you have a zerker sniper build you opions are moot.

I can’t play what I want now?

I’m suddenly faced with facism. omg

na lol im just ignoring your opions.

People die to retaliation? lol

I throw grenades into 40+ strong zergs and I might go down to 70% health. I doubt the ranger pea shooter has ever been worse, though I guess I don’t zerker in wvw.