Guild Wars 2

Finally read the new traits on dulfy and I’m kinda mind boggled about them.

Pet traits in marksmanship…

Shortbow trait in skirmishing…

Pet traits in wilderness survival…

Great sword and axe traits in beastmastery…

I’m sure I could pick out a few more that do not make sense, but c’mon, at least put things where they belong please. Please?

Where would you put the Shortbow trait?

and 3 downed/revive traits
Trapper’s Defense (Skirmishing) – spike trap on revive
Healer’s Celerity (Nature Magic) – revive speed + swiftness on revive

Instinctual Bond (Beastmastery) – pet quickness on downed

At least merge Trapper’s Defense and Healer’s Celerity and redesign Instinctual Bond or at least make it a Major Adept so it’s a choice.

Levetty.1279:

Where would you put the Shortbow trait?

Well, for example, they could combine the long and short bow traits. Combine the sword and great sword traits. Maybe axe in wilderness survival. Idk, but I’m sure I’m not the only one looking at these traits in bewilderment. Is this seriously the best and most creative thing they can do for these traits?

From day one players have talked about improving traits, among other things like pets, better 1 handed sword functionality, better damage from great sword…, and this is it? This is the result of almost 3 years of feedback from players? The lack of making sensible and necessary changes is really disappointing guys.

The Ranger community has been begging for meaningful, substantial and sensible improvements and having these trait reworks go live in the near future will leave a bad taste in players mouthes and definitely reflect poorly on the development team.

Swagger.1459:

I’m sure I could pick out a few more that do not make sense, but c’mon, at least put things where they belong please. Please?

Your complaints don’t make sense.

Beastmaster’s Bond is hardly a “pet trait”, it add some benefical plays with a mechanic you’re stuck with anyways. Shortbow trait in skirmishing makes perfect sense with trait lines no longer being tied to stats (not to mention the fact that the line got other condi options aswell). One pet related trait in WS is perfectly fine, and is your best adept choice for non-condi builds. You could argue that the GS and axe traits could be moved, but in my opinion they will work just fine where they are.

You get three maxed out lines to chose from, none of them being tied to attributes. I’m sure you will be able to work around these so called problems of yours. These changes are mostly good (except having two revive traits obviously) and straight out buffs. Go and take a look at the necromancer traits if you wanna find something to complain about.

Swagger.1459:

Levetty.1279:

Where would you put the Shortbow trait?

Well, for example, they could combine the long and short bow traits.

Why? So that you can run a less optimal double bow build?

Run both lines then. You would probably be doing that anyway. And you will spend less traits optimizing both weapons than what you currently do.

And here comes yet another complaint thread that gives nothing but subjective personal opinions without any numbers or objective explanations whatsoever.

Yay…

Some changes are definite to come. I expect the reviving ones. Everyone can see that it’s too situational and not worth when compared to other traits in the same category.

Until then, I find it strange to make a thread that says nothing but “I don’t like it”. Because I do. Who’s gonna profit from a thread that states literally nothing? Developers? I don’t think so. If you want to address their decisions – look at all classes altogether, compare the changes, provide the numbers (that you can’t since HoT is not out yet) and then say what could be done better and especially state in which way.

If you don’t do this in at least similar order, than the thread is pointless.

http://dulfy.net/2015/05/02/gw2-specialization-calculator-that_shaman/#profession=ranger&traits=“Marksmanship”,3,5,9-“Skirmishing”,2,4,7-“Wilderness Survival”,3,6,8

Here. Make some builds and show exactly how these new traits ain’t working out for you, and how most of our current builds wont’ get a buff out of this.

I like these changes. In fact, I like them so much that I almost don’t feel like playing anymore with our current traits.

What do pets have to do with marksmanship?

What does a great sword and axe have to do with being a beast master?

Instead of niggling about the precise specifics, you all should read through the traits and use some common sense. You guys and gals would not try to fit a round peg in a square hole so use that same logic and you’ll see what I’m talking about.

Also, no, I don’t need to go into specific and detailed numbers and figures to provide this feedback. The spirit and feedback of this post is to point out the nonsensical trait rework. Open your minds people.

Edit- I’m sure there are a whole bunch of trait changes across professions that don’t make sense either, but I’m talking about the ranger here.

Beastmaster’s Bond is not a pet trait. It gives you 15s Fury, Swiftness and Might when you press F4. That’s it. It’s something that happens when you press F4. Nothing to do with the pet. It’s great for Marksmanship. Fury is always welcome.

I don’t understand why Greatsword and Axe traits are in Beastmastery either.

I don’t like Wilderness Survival Adept traits, so I’m not happy with a pet trait being there either. They’re all too build specific.

Shortbow makes sense in Skirmishing.

Swagger.1459:

you all should read through the traits and use some common sense.

I just gave you a link to a build calculater. Why don’t you use that so called common sense of yours and show us exactly how these changes won’t benefit several builds of ours.

All of the pet traits in marksmanship benfits the ranger aswell, and NONE of them are pet traits only. It’s called synergy. And it benefits our class mechanic without having to spend points in beasmastery. Same goes for all professions. Warriors have burst traits not directly linked to Dicipline.

Axe works in beastmastery because together with fortyfing bond it is an excelent weapon for buffing our pets (the trait line also buffs the direct damage of our pet, which is a great addition to a condi spec). Spec into Nature Magic, Beastmastery and Wilderness Survival, and you have a condi build setup where having a mainhand axe trait in BM makes perfect sense. That’s not saying it couldn’t have been moved anywhere else, but it works. It’s not “bad”.

Common sense.

Holland.9351:

I don’t like Wilderness Survival Adept traits, so I’m not happy with a pet trait being there either. They’re all too build specific..

Not necessarily. A boost to the condi duration of pets works pretty well in a power ranger build utilizing wolf’s fear etc. In other words, any builds using pets that applies any type of condi that you wouldn’t mind having a longer duration on.

Yeah, it’s a limited choice and they could have moved it to BM, but at least it won’t be a completely useless trait that is just sitting there doing nothing.

Even the falling damage trait isn’t all that bad from a pvp perspective – coupled with Wilderness Knowledge, you get condi cleanse, fury and leave muddy terrain every time you take falling damage. A potential life saver when disengaging fights from something like the mid point on Battle of Khylo or Forest of Niflhel.

Lazze.9870:

Holland.9351:

I don’t like Wilderness Survival Adept traits, so I’m not happy with a pet trait being there either. They’re all too build specific..

Not necessarily. A boost to the condi duration of pets works pretty well in a power ranger build utilizing wolf’s fear etc. In other words, any builds using pets that applies any type of condi that you wouldn’t mind having a longer duration on.

Yeah, it’s a limited choice and they could have moved it to BM, but at least it won’t be a completely useless trait that is just sitting there doing nothing.

Like you said, not all pets use conditions and even less use condition damage. Just using it for condition duration would already be a bit of a wasted trait. Also note that it only gives 20% instead of the current 50%.

None of the pets I use have conditions. One gives a boon and the other clears conditons.

So I’m left with falling damage trait because I don’t use torch or dagger either. You might say: Why not pick another line then? Well, I like the rest of it and it’s already my 3rd choice.

Holland.9351:

Also note that it only gives 20% instead of the current 50%.

None of the pets I use have conditions. One gives a boon and the other clears conditons..

I’m aware. And they could definitely boost that duration to match the current trait. The numbers are what makes the trait a bit “meh” imo, not the actual effects and the fact that it is a pet trait.

I can’t think of a single pet giving boons that at least doesn’t do something like vuln or cripple aswell. But yeah, I agree. For some builds it’s very limited. I’m just saying it doesn’t have to be all that build specific.

Edit: just to be clear, I also think two out of the three WS major adept traits are a tad weak, compared to other lines, unless you run condi with off-hand dagger and torch. And the falling damage trait has to go somewhere, so.. might aswell be a line that has a grandmaster it benefits from.

Swap one of your pets to one that uses conditions then, you can leave the Brown Bear at home.

Swagger.1459:

What do pets have to do with marksmanship?

Pretty much everything. We are a pet-class. Using longbow or not. Deal with it.
Moreover, you pretend to be blind that the trait you are talking about is pet oriented, while it is not. It uses a function available throughout the whole gameplay.

What does a great sword and axe have to do with being a beast master?

Thematically? Not really much. From gameplay perspective? Quite a few things. I’ll use your terminology and say that I don’t have to go into details. Is there a problem with that according to balance? No. Not even a teeny bit.

Instead of niggling about the precise specifics, you all should read through the traits and use some common sense. You guys and gals would not try to fit a round peg in a square hole so use that same logic and you’ll see what I’m talking about.

I did. Did you try to do the same, but my way? If you did, you knew what we are talking about. If you don’t, than you clearly didn’t bother.

Also, no, I don’t need to go into specific and detailed numbers and figures to provide this feedback. The spirit and feedback of this post is to point out the nonsensical trait rework. Open your minds people.

It doesn’t make sense for you. I’m sorry to disappoint but most of things they changed makes perfect sense. You just can’t see it. I’d say that your vision is narrow-minded and you got stuck at a single idea of classification. Some things they had to fit into trait lines they did because others were full or it suits that way the best from gameplay perspective.
Wake up, sir. You clearly didn’t want Shortbow, Sword, GS, Axe and dagger all in skirmishing traitline. Most of weapons you’d want traited would overlap with each other. (And yes, Shortbow is thematically exactly a skirmishing weapon).

Edit- I’m sure there are a whole bunch of trait changes across professions that don’t make sense either, but I’m talking about the ranger here.

I’m glad that I explained why most of them make sense. But you have to broaden your mind in order to see that. And I don’t mean it in offensive way.
You are taking this way too subjectively. You have zero experience with developing a game, even so a class. A-net has to try to suit millions of players from ALL POINTS OF ANGLE at the same time. Thematically, game-play-wise and balance-wise. What your thread is saying is that you are ignoring every aspect but yours saying that what they did is wrong.

And with all due respect, Sir, you have no idea.
Some of the points may be justified and considered but clearly not the way you did.

jesus crist so much QQ i agree with guy above here there is alot more synergy.

there no longer a full line trait investment for lb because it will become basline you got alot more options. ohh and one other all this stuff isn’t even final they might change and the bonus stat you get from those line are gone. so why are you complaining about all my builds are still there and i made even new one. stop QQ and just work with it. “You must be shapeless, formless, like water. When you pour water in a cup, it becomes the cup. When you pour water in a bottle, it becomes the bottle. When you pour water in a teapot, it becomes the teapot. Water can drip and it can crash. Become like water my friend.” Bruce lee quote

Ditto…

Honestly, anyone who has a problem with the position of Ranger traits now has little to no imagination for theory crafting, there is a great choice for every tier in every line, for every type of build. The only exceptions being the revive and falling damage traits and the fact that both our GM condition removal traits are in the same position with Poison Master, although the latter may be intended, it makes using Poison Master hard and taking NM difficult. MM/Sk/WS/BM are better lines, with good synergy with WS being mandatory for sPvP or WvW. I desperately want Fortifying Bond, but not at the expense of condi removal or BM traits.

Any of the Master Wilderness Survival traits (Oakheart Salve, Peak of Strength, Shared Anguish) should be switched with any of the Adept traits (Soften the Fall, Ambidexterity, Expertise Training), because the Master traits would all be good in any kind of build. Not perfect, but they’d all have some use.

I’m not a fan of Nature Magic either.
Nature’s Wrath should scale with vitality like Strength of Spirit currently does. Everyone will have at least 1000 vitality, which becomes at least 100 power. Everyone starts with 0 healing power, which becomes 0 power. So scaling traits should always scale off vitality, toughness, power or precision and never off condition damage, ferocity or healing power. Unless with the update ALL stats will start at 1000 points.

Do you guyz remember how everyone is crying over Shortbow being useless, or the trait being in skirmishing?
…
Now I hereby present to you the idea I intend to run along.

Celestial Air+Fire sigil on Shortbow with Poison Master. The weapon itself has fine survivability, utility… And with celestial setup even the crit chance for the crits. Now let me ask you …
What immense burst can you expect from Poison Volley since poison is going to stack in HoT, Hmm?

All a matter of imagination
<sips coffee>

Swagger.1459:

What do pets have to do with marksmanship?

What does a great sword and axe have to do with being a beast master?

Instead of niggling about the precise specifics, you all should read through the traits and use some common sense. You guys and gals would not try to fit a round peg in a square hole so use that same logic and you’ll see what I’m talking about.

Also, no, I don’t need to go into specific and detailed numbers and figures to provide this feedback. The spirit and feedback of this post is to point out the nonsensical trait rework. Open your minds people.

Edit- I’m sure there are a whole bunch of trait changes across professions that don’t make sense either, but I’m talking about the ranger here.

I agree with you.

Reading through those traits and where they are going to fall compared to what they are now? Confusing and disturbing.

Holland.9351:

Any of the Master Wilderness Survival traits (Oakheart Salve, Peak of Strength, Shared Anguish) should be switched with any of the Adept traits (Soften the Fall, Ambidexterity, Expertise Training), because the Master traits would all be good in any kind of build. Not perfect, but they’d all have some use.

I’m not a fan of Nature Magic either.
Nature’s Wrath should scale with vitality like Strength of Spirit currently does. Everyone will have at least 1000 vitality, which becomes at least 100 power. Everyone starts with 0 healing power, which becomes 0 power. So scaling traits should always scale off vitality, toughness, power or precision and never off condition damage, ferocity or healing power. Unless with the update ALL stats will start at 1000 points.

I perfectly agree with Wilderness Survival, I have my own issues with the trait line in that the adept, master and grandmaster choices are all too similar. How would you like to deal condition damage or would you rather soften the fall? Which enemy status effects would you like defence against or would you rather a highly conditional physical damage boost? Would you like to remove condis, remove condis or run a condi build? If this is our conditions or not dying line, why isn’t there a condition option at each master rank? If I have to ignore all condi removal traits to run a condi build (meaning I will lose all condi wars), can I at least have a choice that feels good to make at all ranks?

As for Nature’s Wrath, they took the grandmaster minor trait from beastmastery and slapped it on Nature magic as an adept major trait, our missing points of empathy are hiding right there while every other profession gets half their class mechanic stat as the grandmaster minor in their mechanic traitline and the other half baseline. I say the move to Nature magic makes more sense, as it’s our core support specialisation, even if the ranger is lacking in support skills that actually scale with healing power other than the boon regeneration.
Based on my current experience of trying to use a support build, Nature Magic just seems horribly underwhelming overall. It’s awkward when the only major traits I’m interested in are 2 adepts and a master. But it feels bad when my Zerker Ele switches to water attunement and provides comparable healing to and better condi removal than my Cleric Ranger. Spirits don’t even scale properly with boon duration and healing power.
Supposedly, Druid will be a CC/Support specialisation or at least the staff will be a CC/support weapon. Consider also the spirit rework and trap rework incoming and it seems we just don’t know enough about how the Ranger will provide team support to properly judge Nature Magic.

I do think that piercing should be a universal trait for Longbow, Shortbow, and Harpoon-gun. Other than that, ‘Meh.’

Traits are no stranger than they ever were now, IMO.

Tragic Positive.9356:

Do you guyz remember how everyone is crying over Shortbow being useless, or the trait being in skirmishing?
…
Now I hereby present to you the idea I intend to run along.

Celestial Air+Fire sigil on Shortbow with Poison Master. The weapon itself has fine survivability, utility… And with celestial setup even the crit chance for the crits. Now let me ask you …
What immense burst can you expect from Poison Volley since poison is going to stack in HoT, Hmm?

All a matter of imagination
<sips coffee>

Celestial, Air/Fire, Sharpened Edges, LoYF, Poison Master, Hawk/Wolf will be so good Can’t wait.

God awful when compared to other classes. Why do we have 3 minor traits doing the same thing in MM, and similarly in Skirmishing, 2 minor traits for weapon swap? Can’t we just merge them together?

actually i quite like the changes. my biggest concern is all the condi removal is still in 1 line, pretty much making it mandatory for every build.

i especially like what they’ve done with the beastmastery line, it’s almost worth speccing now. now if there were just a trait or w/e to get rid of the stupid pet….

I really hope Anet makes every single trait something you would really want to have, because they’re that good. It should feel like you really want all the traits, but have to pick one, and feel the loss when not being able to pick the other traits at the same time.
They should never make you feel like it doesn’t matter which trait you pick since they’re all useless, and it should also never be like one trait is so much better than the others, that you won’t even consider them.

I really hope they actually go over each and every trait and think “hey, is this an interesting and useful trait at all, or do we need to change it completely?”

I’m rather amazed at the extreme slow pace they’ve shown when it comes to change things around.

Yeah, I agree, the choices should be hard and/or obvious depending on builds. Each trait tier needs something that helps a condi build specifically, something that helps a power build specifically and something that can help any build generally. Then there would always be a good pick for whatever you are running.

niconori.7235:

God awful when compared to other classes. Why do we have 3 minor traits doing the same thing in MM, and similarly in Skirmishing, 2 minor traits for weapon swap? Can’t we just merge them together?

No, it’s not “god awful”.

We still have 3 minor traits in MM revolved around opening strike because they finally got off their kitten and added some play to the opening strike mechanic via master and grandmaster traits other than the useless current incarnation of Remorseless. We actually get proper ways of refreshing the minor traits.

There is a difference between “doing the same” and “working with the same mechanic” for that matter, but I’d guess you already know that.

They could have merged the adept and master minors, and added a gm trait that grants you some benefit against foes with vuln. That’s about the only additional improvement I would have wanted. The changes we are getting are an improvement nevertheless.

If there is anything you should be complaining about, it’s the fact that we still have two revive traits. That’s god awful.

Glad I found this again. I notice Hide in Plain Sight is gone? That trait is amazing since they made it standard stealth. The Shared Anguish + Hide in Plain Sight combo is really nice in WvW.

I’m currently toying with Winderness Survival, Nature Magic and Beastmastery in the calculator. Not all the choices are straight forward… dogs with taunt or aoe Winter’s Bite? Decisions, decisions…

The comment about the Druid line throwing a spanner into the works is a good one. Right now I can’t imagine wanting the Druid line over what there is. I guess we’ll see.

I’d say that the BM taunt is useful for DPS pets mostly.
We non-BM rangers already take only pets with CC.

Id also like to know just where the hell one of my favorite traits went?

Hide in plain sight.

One of the few really good ranger pvp traits and its gone :/

Sandzibar.5134:

Id also like to know just where the hell one of my favorite traits went?

Hide in plain sight.

One of the few really good ranger pvp traits and its gone :/

Really?
… I mean, the trait was fun, but I never felt like it saved me. Not even once. And I used to play it for quite some time.

Entertainment and usefulness are two different things.

Sandzibar.5134:

Id also like to know just where the hell one of my favorite traits went?

Hide in plain sight.

One of the few really good ranger pvp traits and its gone :/

I agree. this is the most useful trait in my build. I could even live with non-moving spirits but this trait is gold.

Generally I’m feeling like anet has picked my ranger build and says “And kitten you in particular”. Since the way I’m playing it is truly unique and very viable. I’ve probably assembled the best ranger build there is, with all those hard nerfs I’m calculating with xpac – it’s not even going to be able to fill the same role from what I’ve read.

I’m hoping the new spec is going to fill in on that, otherwise I’ll probably ditch it.

sleight.9638:

I agree. this is the most useful trait in my build. I could even live with non-moving spirits but this trait is gold.

Generally I’m feeling like anet has picked my ranger build and says “And kitten you in particular”. Since the way I’m playing it is truly unique and very viable. I’ve probably assembled the best ranger build there is, with all those hard nerfs I’m calculating with xpac – it’s not even going to be able to fill the same role from what I’ve read.

I’m hoping the new spec is going to fill in on that, otherwise I’ll probably ditch it.

Well, I’m sold. I’d love to see the best Ranger build there is! Can you show us? Especially if HiPS is the most useful trait in it.