Guild Wars 2

So I’m taking this from this topic: https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/pvp/pvp/Pax-Prime-and-Guild-Wars-2/first#post2403772

But basically, the big one that affects us is:

Balance: We are being VERY careful w/ balance between now and the tournament so you guys don’t have builds changing every patch. This is why we did the larger balance patch last month – we wanted to do smaller and smaller changes as we get closer to the tourney. We know there is a perception that a few things are too strong right now, so we’ll be looking at those between now and the tourney.

That means that potentially, there won’t be another big patch until the end of august, except for maybe bringing a few really powerful builds (necros) in line with the rest of the meta.

I’m assuming that we aren’t going to see any huge changes until after the tournaments, and we’ll be lucky if we get more than bug fixes on July 30th (my estimated balance update date because its between tournies).

Happy, unhappy, agree, disagree, discuss.

I agree but doubtful ranger will get much love and it will be mostly about necros

hope dies last…
but well, with this post of dev its sure.
with next patch for ranger nothing will happen.

the longbow improve is for sure not in, but at other side.
they dont have to be frightened about a dps ranger or any kind of ranger on pvp atm :P

i think next patch is rly small one. not much hope for ranger there

atm just engi and necro can do so much more better on condi
and ele/thief/mes can do so much better on dps then a ranger at pvp

edit: well last balance patch was also rly small one..

Didn’t I say 2 motnhs? :P But you know, it doesn’t have to be big – I just want LB buff, and that is only 1 weapon on only 1 class xD

I don’t think I am the only one that would be disappointed if they put balance patches on halt for nearly two months. That would be too detrimental to the game balance, especially for those classes already suffering. Doubly so outside of sPvP, you know, where the majority of people actually play.

longbow buff would be not enough… but a good start

ranger need a rly huge overhaul…
just make new longbow skills will not make him viable enough,
becuase in my mind, it have to be same strong like elem or thief
when i go dps ranger.
but to become same strong like any dps class it need trait reworks and some new f1-f4 skills or self pet controll…
but at self pet controll, much pets whould need total rework.

it makes me so sad when i compare a ranger condi dmg build with an engi condi dmg build.
or compare any dps ranger build with any dps build of an other class-.-
just bad joke anet, rly. thankts to my pet which dies instant if i go not bm points.
yes thats also happens in pvp teamfights…

ranger is in same bad situation like warrior in pvp atm -.-
and in pve its like no way to help him.

anet should start spend time into ranger, we also have pay for the game, just have make the misstake to create a ranger…
gameplay feels good, but strengh feels much to low

i dont speak here about bm ranger or any bunker zookeeper…
i just whant one RANGER build

Who cares about the Tourneys?
This shouldn’t stop them one Iota from doing some BADLY needed PvE Skill Splits…

I’ll never understand why they focus so much on SPvP in this game, It will never be an esport, and out of the 3 paths currently played (SPvP, WvW, PVE) its the least played ..

Yet they continue to focus on it..

Xsorus.2507:

I’ll never understand why they focus so much on SPvP in this game, It will never be an esport, and out of the 3 paths currently played (SPvP, WvW, PVE) its the least played ..

Yet they continue to focus on it..

Because they really, really, really want it to become an eSport. Which isn’t a bad thing. The bad thing is focusing all balance around it and letting the rest of the playerbase (which outnumber the PvPers) suffer as the game modes are too drastically different.

I also agree

No imporvements for the ranger class on the next patche/s.

They’ve made it quite clear by their silence; over and over again..

Xsorus.2507:

I’ll never understand why they focus so much on SPvP in this game, It will never be an esport, and out of the 3 paths currently played (SPvP, WvW, PVE) its the least played ..

Yet they continue to focus on it..

To a certain extent PvE can take care of itself. When people can run content naked without speed clear builds, PvE balance doesn’t seem that important (most of the answers to current PvE problems lie in dungeon design, not class balance). All content can be complete by moderately skilled players with any class. The disparity between classes isn’t really a huge issue because the classes aren’t directly competing with each other.

If you notice, almost all of the content added to the game since FotM has been extremely casual. It’s either item progression, jumping puzzles or trivially easy PvE content, easy grind achievements (snowmen, pumpkins, dragon pinatas/fireworks/dragon effigies) with the exception of a couple of dungeons which fall in the easy to medium difficulty range. Guild Wars 2 is a very casual game when it comes to PvE. The stress this puts on a need for thorough PvE skill balance is minimal.

SynfulChaot.3169:

Xsorus.2507:

I’ll never understand why they focus so much on SPvP in this game, It will never be an esport, and out of the 3 paths currently played (SPvP, WvW, PVE) its the least played ..

Yet they continue to focus on it..

Because they really, really, really want it to become an eSport. Which isn’t a bad thing. The bad thing is focusing all balance around it and letting the rest of the playerbase (which outnumber the PvPers) suffer as the game modes are too drastically different.

It’s ALWAYS been this way though. When they weren’t allowed to (b/c of infringement worries) take the name Triforge …. they went with ARENA-net next for a reason. At Launch, GW1 was alllllll about PvP. And people whine about Pay to Win now…. should have SEEN that first year of GW1 then… OMMMMG. You wanted to be competitive and able to counter the gimmicks? NOPE, gotta grind for 1 or 2 months unless you bought the skill packs. …go collect every skill in the game first by grinding gold and maybe by the time you get back from that BerganHotsprings farming-venture, you’ll have learned just enough skills & the right elite to run HammyStorm without getting laughed out of the ring ….meanwhile the P2W’ers were well into their 3rd ranks on HA and already rejecting you from teams.

The Devs they started with and the ones they kept bringing on… have always been dreaming this impossible dream of making an RPG that’s popular to PvP in. Riot thinks they’ve done the same thing. And Blizzard thought they did the same thing. But sadly ALL OF THESE COMPANIES only succeeded in making Psuedo PvP. Gw1 resulted in BuildWars. Starcraft was really just BigG**Hunters 24/7. And LoL… don’t even get me started on that. It’s like the TF2 hat obsession except with Bots & Skins instead.

None of these studios ever succeeded in making real PvP (in an RPS setting) Mainstream. But that won’t stop them from keeping it their first Priority that they kitten around with for the first year every time until they eventually concede defeat and start bringing the Balancing efforts back towards PvE again the next year (or the year AFTER THAT if you look at Factions—>Nightfall). Who knows though… maybe they’re like Thomas Edison** and 20 years from now they’ll finally pull it off? Hard to say!

**(& suddenly Mhenlo just became the most ironic NPC ever)

.

Shiren.9532:

The disparity between classes isn’t really a huge issue because the classes aren’t directly competing with each other.

About 80% of the LFG calls & current “Profitability Metas” would disagree with you here.
….just like they did in Gw1. Be it the old TOPK & UW Trap teams… the Ursan BS that came later, or the Fendi / DWG farms in the game’s final days…

ilr.9675:

SynfulChaot.3169:

Because they really, really, really want it to become an eSport. Which isn’t a bad thing. The bad thing is focusing all balance around it and letting the rest of the playerbase (which outnumber the PvPers) suffer as the game modes are too drastically different.

It’s ALWAYS been this way though. When they weren’t allowed to (b/c of infringement worries) take the name Triforge …. they went with ARENA-net next for a reason. At Launch, GW1 was alllllll about PvP. And people whine about Pay to Win now…. should have SEEN that first year of GW1 then… OMMMMG. You wanted to be competitive and able to counter the gimmicks? NOPE, gotta grind for 1 or 2 months unless you bought the skill packs. …go collect every skill in the game first by grinding gold and maybe by the time you get back from that BerganHotsprings farming-venture, you’ll have learned just enough skills & the right elite to run HammyStorm without getting laughed out of the ring ….meanwhile the P2W’ers were well into their 3rd ranks on HA and already rejecting you from teams.

Not always. Yes, they did focus as such for the first while. After that they finally realized that PvP balance screwed up PvE balance greatly and they started splitting skills between PvE and PvP.

All that really shocks me is they are making the same mistake again. It wasn’t possible last time. I don’t think it’s possible this time either. What makes them think that two highly disparate game modes in GW2 are any more similiar than they were before?

ilr.9675:

The Devs they started with and the ones they kept bringing on… have always been dreaming this impossible dream of making an RPG that’s popular to PvP in. Riot thinks they’ve done the same thing. And Blizzard thought they did the same thing. But sadly ALL OF THESE COMPANIES only succeeded in making Psuedo PvP. Gw1 resulted in BuildWars. Starcraft was really just BigG**Hunters 24/7. And LoL… don’t even get me started on that. It’s like the TF2 hat obsession except with Bots & Skins instead.

The difference with Riot is they don’t even need to bother with the ‘PvE’ stuff. They can balance freely without adversely affecting the wrong game mode as they have only one game mode.

ilr.9675:

None of these studios ever succeeded in making real PvP (in an RPS setting) Mainstream. But that won’t stop them from keeping it their first Priority that they kitten around with for the first year every time until they eventually concede defeat and start bringing the Balancing efforts back towards PvE again the next year (or the year AFTER THAT if you look at Factions—>Nightfall). Who knows though… maybe they’re like Thomas Edison** and 20 years from now they’ll finally pull it off? Hard to say!

There is no problem with them trying. The problem is with them neglecting the larger portion of their playerbase. Those that don’t care about PvP, but are consistantly affected by class balance changes that are completely unnecessary for their game mode, whether it be PvE (dungeon) or WvW.

Yeah…. no I agree completely with all your counterpoints. They’re spot on as well

dont understand why pvp balance should be a problem on pve balance

at same time i rly dont whant that pve limit my pvp experience.
and if we are speak truth, pve is rly not hard to play, its more because fun? Oo

and i think the improves the ranger rly hard need for pvp, whould be also rly good on pve.

the pet nerf was the most big fail, done just because the much kitten qq of other players, bm ranger was never op in a tpvp team.
it was well balanced for the tpvp play.

we have same joke atm at necro, much qq have make him totaly op, we see 2 necros in much teams for the win… oh and not see much rangers running around atm…

when i speak with good ranger players about ranger on pvp, nobody sounds rly happy.
i have speak a bit with 2 rly strong rangers on eu…
both sounds not rly happy about whats going on with rangers atm…
the spirit rez seems also rly buged, because it just dont rez much time after summon it when we press the rez fast.
i think the spirits follow you trait is the reason here Oo

SynfulChaot.3169:

ilr.9675:

SynfulChaot.3169:

Because they really, really, really want it to become an eSport. Which isn’t a bad thing. The bad thing is focusing all balance around it and letting the rest of the playerbase (which outnumber the PvPers) suffer as the game modes are too drastically different.

It’s ALWAYS been this way though. When they weren’t allowed to (b/c of infringement worries) take the name Triforge …. they went with ARENA-net next for a reason. At Launch, GW1 was alllllll about PvP. And people whine about Pay to Win now…. should have SEEN that first year of GW1 then… OMMMMG. You wanted to be competitive and able to counter the gimmicks? NOPE, gotta grind for 1 or 2 months unless you bought the skill packs. …go collect every skill in the game first by grinding gold and maybe by the time you get back from that BerganHotsprings farming-venture, you’ll have learned just enough skills & the right elite to run HammyStorm without getting laughed out of the ring ….meanwhile the P2W’ers were well into their 3rd ranks on HA and already rejecting you from teams.

Not always. Yes, they did focus as such for the first while. After that they finally realized that PvP balance screwed up PvE balance greatly and they started splitting skills between PvE and PvP.

All that really shocks me is they are making the same mistake again. It wasn’t possible last time. I don’t think it’s possible this time either. What makes them think that two highly disparate game modes in GW2 are any more similiar than they were before?

ilr.9675:

The Devs they started with and the ones they kept bringing on… have always been dreaming this impossible dream of making an RPG that’s popular to PvP in. Riot thinks they’ve done the same thing. And Blizzard thought they did the same thing. But sadly ALL OF THESE COMPANIES only succeeded in making Psuedo PvP. Gw1 resulted in BuildWars. Starcraft was really just BigG**Hunters 24/7. And LoL… don’t even get me started on that. It’s like the TF2 hat obsession except with Bots & Skins instead.

The difference with Riot is they don’t even need to bother with the ‘PvE’ stuff. They can balance freely without adversely affecting the wrong game mode as they have only one game mode.

ilr.9675:

None of these studios ever succeeded in making real PvP (in an RPS setting) Mainstream. But that won’t stop them from keeping it their first Priority that they kitten around with for the first year every time until they eventually concede defeat and start bringing the Balancing efforts back towards PvE again the next year (or the year AFTER THAT if you look at Factions—>Nightfall). Who knows though… maybe they’re like Thomas Edison** and 20 years from now they’ll finally pull it off? Hard to say!

There is no problem with them trying. The problem is with them neglecting the larger portion of their playerbase. Those that don’t care about PvP, but are consistantly affected by class balance changes that are completely unnecessary for their game mode, whether it be PvE (dungeon) or WvW.

Incidentally, with Riot, their latest patch started splitting balance between their 3 modes with a single change to 2 different champs on their 3v3 map and their Dominion mode. A.net already has some very minor skill differences between PvP and PvE I believe, they just need to really take it further.

on massively it says the new patch is 7-24-13 and comes with 2 arenas a big pve event and the voting for council member from the two NPC’s fighting for it. and the winner will “change the entire game and living story”

they also said they dont want to mess with too much before the tourney.

Oidmetala.8426:

dont understand why pvp balance should be a problem on pve balance

at same time i rly dont whant that pve limit my pvp experience.
and if we are speak truth, pve is rly not hard to play, its more because fun? Oo

and i think the improves the ranger rly hard need for pvp, whould be also rly good on pve.
the pet nerf was the most big fail, done just because the much kitten qq of other players, bm ranger was never op in a tpvp team.
it was well balanced for the tpvp play.

Current PvP all revolves around Conquest, which involves capturing and holding points. In this meta there is much emphasis put on holding and bunkering the capture points against a small team of, at maximum, 8. And were they to take all 8 to do so they would leave themselves open to all of their nodes being captured.

In WvW, this type of combat is uncommon and only a small part of the larger picture. In PvE (dungeons), this type of combat does not exist.

Also, what you need to bunker against in PvP is other players. That means you only need to deal with how much damage a player can put out. In PvE you need to worry about veterans, champions, and bosses, all of which can out DPS a player. And that’s not counting the AoE spam that is prevalent in both PvE (from bosses, mostly) and WvW (from players).

TL;DR – The fighting styles are so disparate that each has it’s own meta. What is great in PvP is often useless in PvE, and vice-versa. To test this yourself take your good dungeon build into PvP and see what happens. Or take your bunker/trap ranger into a hard dungeon instance. It won’t be pretty. >.<

Oidmetala.8426:

we have same joke atm at necro, much qq have make him totaly op, we see 2 necros in much teams for the win… oh and not see much rangers running around atm…

when i speak with good ranger players about ranger on pvp, nobody sounds rly happy.
i have speak a bit with 2 rly strong rangers on eu…
both sounds not rly happy about whats going on with rangers atm…
the spirit rez seems also rly buged, because it just dont rez much time after summon it when we press the rez fast.
i think the spirits follow you trait is the reason here Oo

If you think the PvP rangers are unhappy, you should hear from the PvE rangers. At least PvP rangers have a place in the meta that isn’t last. PvE rangers are often kicked from dungeon groups or just plain ignored. Very few want rangers in their dungeon groups.

hyjaxxx.1584:

on massively it says the new patch is 7-24-13 and comes with 2 arenas a big pve event and the voting for council member from the two NPC’s fighting for it. and the winner will “change the entire game and living story”

they also said they dont want to mess with too much before the tourney.

Ignoring all class balance for nearly two months when some classes need serious work just to make things easier for a minority of players would be a major disservice to the playerbase. I think we all hope that is not the path they take.

on tpvp its 5vs5 and most teams have 1 holder, 1 with good node controll and 3 damage dealer.
a setup for tpvp whould something like
holder (guardian)
node controll and dmg (bomb engi)
dmg dealers (ele, mes, necro)

so there are also always 3 dmg dealers in a team. this builds whould for sure also work on pve, because this 3 players dont play holders, they play roamer.
and i also whant any working dmg condi or dps ranger build for pvp,
which is good on teamfights not for holding like bm rangers. such a build whould also work on dungeons or wvw then.

and i know that rangers on pve are massive unhappy, but its the same on tpvp.
i whant to see them in both places go more useful.

we just have bunker build and thats not fun when i whant go a damge ranger
and not any build i try works fine.
its always to less dmg and to less survive.
there are not much rangers at high rank pvp and there is a reason.

i dont get why necros are favored over rangers in PVP though. no necro can ever hope to beat a ranger at the same skill level. Unless the ranger is a moron, there is no way it can loose to even a wellomancer.

^that’s more of an issue with blood necs not receiving proper life steal MATH on their healing (& maybe other stats too) Attributes. If they did, then it would become very difficult for most rangers to simply outlast a good Pow-Blood necro. The best they could hope for then would be a Regen-battle Stalemate dependent on who could keep poison on longer

Prysin.8542:

i dont get why necros are favored over rangers in PVP though. no necro can ever hope to beat a ranger at the same skill level. Unless the ranger is a moron, there is no way it can loose to even a wellomancer.

It isn’t the well build that’s so powerful. People are taking necros for the 30/30/10 build:
http://gw2skills.net/editor/?fQAQNAW7YjMad7hbSb87JEpCPD0jdRXAxoHITwoMA-TsAAzCpI+S9l7LzXyvsfNqYVxeBA

Or a 30/20/10/0/10 build like this one: http://intothemists.com/calc/?build=;044Z;1kHFG0A4oJkJ0;9;4TJ9-904A48-1;32;0EJG4;2hoHAhoHA2Vr

Both builds are extremely strong, and have very simple rotations with enough life force, of going 2,3,5 on the staff, the going into Death Shroud, and going 2,3,5 again. If Dhuumfire is activated during that rotation, the amount of damage output almost outright kills any target without stability that has less than ~16k hp, and if they hit you with spectral wall too, there’s basically nothing you can do but watch yourself die, provided they hit the fears in quick enough succession.

They are also taken for their team support option over rangers. Greater Marks on a Dhuumfire build puts out really strong pressure in team fights, and its completely unblockable. Dhuumfire essentially gives Necros the same type of output that rangers would have if rangers could instantly throw traps 1200 range.

Those builds for necro have really knocked rangers and engineers almost completely out of the meta, especially with rangers and engineers subsequent nerfs. A very specialized and skilled engineer still has a chance (Teldo), but rangers, if anything, are being taken either just to sit on back point, or to run the rabid Spirit build that gives added support in team fights, and then roam/point hold as necessary (which isn’t necessarily unique, and is doing the same thing that Teldo does on his Engi basically with less CC).

jcbroe.4329:

Prysin.8542:

i dont get why necros are favored over rangers in PVP though. no necro can ever hope to beat a ranger at the same skill level. Unless the ranger is a moron, there is no way it can loose to even a wellomancer.

It isn’t the well build that’s so powerful. People are taking necros for the 30/30/10 build:
http://gw2skills.net/editor/?fQAQNAW7YjMad7hbSb87JEpCPD0jdRXAxoHITwoMA-TsAAzCpI+S9l7LzXyvsfNqYVxeBA

Or a 30/20/10/0/10 build like this one: http://intothemists.com/calc/?build=;044Z;1kHFG0A4oJkJ0;9;4TJ9-904A48-1;32;0EJG4;2hoHAhoHA2Vr

Both builds are extremely strong, and have very simple rotations with enough life force, of going 2,3,5 on the staff, the going into Death Shroud, and going 2,3,5 again. If Dhuumfire is activated during that rotation, the amount of damage output almost outright kills any target without stability that has less than ~16k hp, and if they hit you with spectral wall too, there’s basically nothing you can do but watch yourself die, provided they hit the fears in quick enough succession.

They are also taken for their team support option over rangers. Greater Marks on a Dhuumfire build puts out really strong pressure in team fights, and its completely unblockable. Dhuumfire essentially gives Necros the same type of output that rangers would have if rangers could instantly throw traps 1200 range.

Those builds for necro have really knocked rangers and engineers almost completely out of the meta, especially with rangers and engineers subsequent nerfs. A very specialized and skilled engineer still has a chance (Teldo), but rangers, if anything, are being taken either just to sit on back point, or to run the rabid Spirit build that gives added support in team fights, and then roam/point hold as necessary (which isn’t necessarily unique, and is doing the same thing that Teldo does on his Engi basically with less CC).

exactly this, cant write it better.
only what i can say, engin kicked ranger allrdy out of tounrys.
necro was not need to do this, but yes, he also whould do this if engin not allrdy
have done it.

That’s also why they never let us have unlimited Wells in the first game….
…IE: they were tied to corpse count. They even tried removing that limitation in 2011 but it proved to be way too powerful when combined with all the other Group & Self “Sustainability” the class had back then…

We’re pretty much the opposite of them right now it seems… minus any real Group sustainability hence our sucking in most dungeon team support. You can try to point out the dozen or more situations where players of every skill level do better on average with sustain/survival composition, but some 1337 kiddy troll is always going to just pick them apart while contradicting everything that’s “Meta” at the same time.

^…This really points it not just being balance issues isolated to just-Necros and just-Ranger or even only-Warriors & only-Mesmer/Ele composition. It really really highlights how badly they screwed up their own game by having nothing BUT “Conquest mode” for sPvP and (rewarding badge/point-wise) nothing BUT Zerging/P.v.D. for WvW, and nothing BUT elite/silver mobs & champs in Dungeons with no emphasis at all on team splitting during boss fights. (well except for Crusher/Hunter fight but that’s an oddity in itself b/c of Mob-Rez & Earthshaker/Immob mechanic).

they can buff pets in PvE and not touch them in dungeons . weee , but sadly no

Rangers are not sufficiently competitive right now for sPvP. Our DPS and group utility does not compare to other classes, we simply don’t bring enough to the table to compete. There’s only so much “player skill” can make up for; at the top, you can’t compete against basic game design. And when the stakes are this high (fat prize money), teams will not be willing to just “give it a go”. Most top level players play several classes (which is why they became so good), and know their team will stand a better chance of winning when they play other classes.

And don’t even get me started on the ranger’s chances in PvE. There’s a reason why they’re being kicked from dungeon groups left and right. Again, this is due to basic game design. PvE design centers around the concepts of dodging and DPS (the “fast boss killing” way usually being more way more efficient than the “using-complicated-tactics-to-eventually-kill-the-boss-the-way-he-was-intended-to-be-killed” way). Compared to other classes, our DPS is low, and our pets can’t dodge which means we often produce DPS that is either sub-par or, depending how much vit/tough/heal is slotted, abysmal.

And no, I really don’t like the situation I described either.

No,in the PAX tournament with the cash prize there will be no Rangers..Saddly from a very strong homepoint bunker Rangers became an meh homepoint bunker…Thank God Anet dont want to “whack a mole” with the balance..
Its ok to nerf this build,was easy and didnt required skill but why we still lack of team support(no,spirits arent enough),why we depend so much in Empathetic Bond for cond removal…and the new trait hasnt changed anything,cause Guard shout does absolutely nothing..Pet stands in stealth and will attack nearby enemies………
Seriously,you couldnt think of something better?Stealthing the pet and attacking?Cause every guy in pvp thats what he fears,being ambushed by pets……

If only they would split this PvP crap out we might stand a chance.

Unless Team Paradigm switches their line up in the next two weeks, then Symbolic will probably still be on ranger (I think he was running spirits the last time I looked).

@PvP comments in general with the upcoming tournies, if they do in fact tweak necros to not be so powerful, rangers will at least be able to compete with a spot on team comps. No they don’t bring much to a team fight, but rangers are probably one of the best home point holders and far point assaulters in the game. Certain teams might choose to capitalize on that and build the rest of the team for a 4 man team fight while leaving the ranger solely on its own for roaming between points, providing back up when necessary.

The only other classes that can do this semi successfully are S/D thieves (which build glass and can be killed very easily, and also provide even less team support than rangers, besides single target damage), and bomb engineers like Teldo, and while those are successful, the skill cap on that engi build is very high and not many players have been seen playing up to that skill level besides Teldo (not that there aren’t any, but they are rarely seen on streamed Scrims/competitions).

So as long as necros get their ability to do so much damage on their terror builds brought in line with the current meta, I think people will see more rangers than they are currently expecting, because necros are very easy targets to focus down for a coordinated team, and a well played ranger has one of the best sustain abilities in the game, comparable to a bunker ele, though ele can spike heals on weapon skills, which is slightly better.

All in all though, rangers are still in need of tune ups, just like most other classes (except Guardian imo). I hope that when the tournies come around, the lack of build variation will provide some statistics and prove to be a testament that classes other options that weren’t chosen because they aren’t viable need to be brought up.

So that’s my take on it. I think in general the entire community that isn’t playing only guardian is pretty disappointed with the lack in haste of the balance updates, since certain things have been clearly unviable since launch.

ilr.9675:

Shiren.9532:

The disparity between classes isn’t really a huge issue because the classes aren’t directly competing with each other.

About 80% of the LFG calls & current “Profitability Metas” would disagree with you here.
….just like they did in Gw1. Be it the old TOPK & UW Trap teams… the Ursan BS that came later, or the Fendi / DWG farms in the game’s final days…

I literally meant competing with each other. As in, your opponent isn’t a warrior or a ranger. You aren’t suddenly screwed because your class is worse than another because your objective is to beat the NPCs and not players.

I agree there is a competition for dungeon group spots especially when you do FotM or speed clears but I think a lot of the issues there are actually game design issues. The OP state of reflection, the value of Aegis, the superiority of banners, the raw DPS and low skill cap of warriors, the power level and effectiveness of crit damage builds and the general lack of a need for complexity in PvE encounters, especially when an optimised group is dropping “phase” bosses before the second phase, without dodging a single attack and all while spamming auto-attack on the spot. The answer could be to rebalance the ranger to fix it’s personal issues (pet survivability, unreliable party buffs) and give it more desired tools, maybe even take power away from meta builds (but given how warriors continue to be buffed despite their PvE dominance, this isn’t going to happen) I think we need to start looking for changes in dungeon design and game mechanics.