Guild Wars 2

As the title states this thread is for the discussion of grandmaster Ranger traits and how so of them do not really seem to fit the name or the expenditure required for unlocking them.

My top offenders would have to be:

Signet of the Beastmaster as it is a grandmaster trait that basically has a shared game mechanic work the same for Ranger as it does for the other profession that possess the skill type (read all but Engineer)

Remorseless effect on kill are generally weak in a lot of content as it requires getting out of combat and then back in.

What about you all which of these traits do you feel were designed below the par for grandmaster status and why?

On a final thought maybe the Ranger traits were not that out of line before the tier system of trait was added and as such were pigeonholed into categories that do not really reflect there strength of the trait.

Remorseless is good vs pve trash, crap for all other situations.

I think the worst grandmasters we have are evasive purity, instinctual bond (was good, now kitten), and remorseless, everything else is pretty freaking powerful

Evasive Purity is pretty awful for the amount of points you need to spend. Mesmers can trait 20 points to create a clone on dodge. Guardians can dodge roll for a small AOE heal for 15 trait points. Bring Evasive Purity closer to it’s former glory. Make it remove 1 random condition in the same AOE radius as the guardians dodge heal.

I think 30 points to receive this trait is really high compared to other professions but Rangers have poor access to condition removal and a change like this would go a long way towards fixing it.

Lucky Shot.8740:

Evasive Purity is pretty awful for the amount of points you need to spend. Mesmers can trait 20 points to create a clone on dodge. Guardians can dodge roll for a small AOE heal for 15 trait points. Bring Evasive Purity closer to it’s former glory. Make it remove 1 random condition in the same AOE radius as the guardians dodge heal.

I think 30 points to receive this trait is really high compared to other professions but Rangers have poor access to condition removal and a change like this would go a long way towards fixing it.

In all honesty I don’t know why they nerfed it so badly to begin with 1 condi removed on a dodge roll every 10s? How was that deserving of a nerf… -maybe- if it removed specific condition set instead of 1 random it’d be better, like poison, weakness, blind and chill or something, that’d be awesome IMO. But so would one random… It just needs to be changed…

Durzlla.6295:

Lucky Shot.8740:

Evasive Purity is pretty awful for the amount of points you need to spend. Mesmers can trait 20 points to create a clone on dodge. Guardians can dodge roll for a small AOE heal for 15 trait points. Bring Evasive Purity closer to it’s former glory. Make it remove 1 random condition in the same AOE radius as the guardians dodge heal.

I think 30 points to receive this trait is really high compared to other professions but Rangers have poor access to condition removal and a change like this would go a long way towards fixing it.

In all honesty I don’t know why they nerfed it so badly to begin with 1 condi removed on a dodge roll every 10s? How was that deserving of a nerf… -maybe- if it removed specific condition set instead of 1 random it’d be better, like poison, weakness, blind and chill or something, that’d be awesome IMO. But so would one random… It just needs to be changed…

I second that motion, but maybe there’s a reason why? We do get lots of endurance plus protection on dodge roll so maybe that has to be factored into the equation. But, yeah, out of all the grandmaster traits, that’s one I really don’t use at all.

Durzlla.6295:

Lucky Shot.8740:

Evasive Purity is pretty awful for the amount of points you need to spend. Mesmers can trait 20 points to create a clone on dodge. Guardians can dodge roll for a small AOE heal for 15 trait points. Bring Evasive Purity closer to it’s former glory. Make it remove 1 random condition in the same AOE radius as the guardians dodge heal.

I think 30 points to receive this trait is really high compared to other professions but Rangers have poor access to condition removal and a change like this would go a long way towards fixing it.

In all honesty I don’t know why they nerfed it so badly to begin with 1 condi removed on a dodge roll every 10s? How was that deserving of a nerf… -maybe- if it removed specific condition set instead of 1 random it’d be better, like poison, weakness, blind and chill or something, that’d be awesome IMO. But so would one random… It just needs to be changed…

Exactly, especially considering the Thief having a similar ‘on dodge’ condition remover. ‘Fleet of Foot’ of the Thief removes Cripple and Weakness (which are pretty nasty conditions) and is only a Master trait.

So I’m left wondering why ‘Evasive Purity’ was deemed a Grandmaster trait for Rangers…

thieves being the ultimate mobility class should be able to remove slows easy (cripple, chill,immobilise,) rangers should be able to remove natural afflictions easily (poison,blind,chill) while overcoming fear and knockback with some utility required and for the most part we can achieve this right now

Jay The Dude.5830:

thieves being the ultimate mobility class should be able to remove slows easy (cripple, chill,immobilise,) rangers should be able to remove natural afflictions easily (poison,blind,chill) while overcoming fear and knockback with some utility required and for the most part we can achieve this right now

I think weakness wouldn’t be out of the question for removing either, but agreed, we just need -something- added to the evasive purity…

Jay The Dude.5830:

thieves being the ultimate mobility class should be able to remove slows easy (cripple, chill,immobilise,) rangers should be able to remove natural afflictions easily (poison,blind,chill) while overcoming fear and knockback with some utility required and for the most part we can achieve this right now

Possibly, but the point I was trying to make was that one is a Master trait and the other a Grandmaster. To me this does not make a whole lot of sense.

Durzlla.6295:

I think weakness wouldn’t be out of the question for removing either, but agreed, we just need -something- added to the evasive purity…

Basically this. If ‘Evasive Purity’ is meant to be a Grandmaster trait, it should have more ‘bang for buck’.

Durzlla.6295:

Jay The Dude.5830:

thieves being the ultimate mobility class should be able to remove slows easy (cripple, chill,immobilise,) rangers should be able to remove natural afflictions easily (poison,blind,chill) while overcoming fear and knockback with some utility required and for the most part we can achieve this right now

I think weakness wouldn’t be out of the question for removing either, but agreed, we just need -something- added to the evasive purity…

i can see that making sense id have figured rangers being capable of spreading weakness easily due to hunter background so itd only make sense they can cure it too
id say the same thing for vulnerability but tbh i think all the adventurer classes have gd cause to apply that little gem lie crazy

Aveneo.2068:

Jay The Dude.5830:

thieves being the ultimate mobility class should be able to remove slows easy (cripple, chill,immobilise,) rangers should be able to remove natural afflictions easily (poison,blind,chill) while overcoming fear and knockback with some utility required and for the most part we can achieve this right now

Possibly, but the point I was trying to make was that one is a Master trait and the other a Grandmaster. To me this does not make a whole lot of sense.

Durzlla.6295:

I think weakness wouldn’t be out of the question for removing either, but agreed, we just need -something- added to the evasive purity…

Basically this. If ‘Evasive Purity’ is meant to be a Grandmaster trait, it should have more ‘bang for buck’.

i agree that there needs to be some trait rearrangement making cross class investment more fair for the number of traits we get (not many) in a build they could all stand to be a little more like 1 point wonders,
how would u suggest making evasive purity more “bang for buck” i think they could make it remove all conditions and while thatd be sweet it wouldnt be entertaining, perhaps they should look into ways of using boons to combat conditions

Jay The Dude.5830:

i agree that there needs to be some trait rearrangement making cross class investment more fair for the number of traits we get (not many) in a build they could all stand to be a little more like 1 point wonders,
how would u suggest making evasive purity more “bang for buck” i think they could make it remove all conditions and while thatd be sweet it wouldnt be entertaining, perhaps they should look into ways of using boons to combat conditions

To me at present time trait rearrangement would be the best course of action and place ‘Evasive Purity’ as a Master trait. That way it will be in line with ‘Stop Drop and Roll’ (Elementalist) and ‘Fleet of Foot’ (Thief).

If ANet wishes to keep it as a Grandmaster trait, I’d suggest them to include the removal of more conditions (like Vulnerability and/or Cripple) instead of just Blind and Poison.

Speaking of ways to beef it up perhaps it converting the conditions into boons would be the answer. Or maybe on cleanse expelling the conditions in some kind of AoE. You could dodge-roll blind/poison bomb your attacker with his own conditions, could be fun.

Evasive purity was worthy of being a grandmaster trait when it used to remove a condition from nearby allies back in the beta

Ryk.9174:

Evasive purity was worthy of being a grandmaster trait when it used to remove a condition from nearby allies back in the beta

I think it’s worth the same investment as the Guardian’s dodge roll AOE heal for a small aoe condition remover. Whether they bumped the guardian dodge roll to 30 or dropped the ranger’s to 15, it strikes me as a similar mechanic that should require a similar investment, in my opinion.

Evasive purity is befuddling to me. I feel like an auto-attack is generally a cheaper investment to remove a blind than a dodge roll. I can see the appeal of removing poison, but removing just poison?

It’s not a terrible idea, (though still weak for a Grandmaster) but it seems kind of limited in scope since it relies on your opponent using poison in the first place.

Bran.7425:

Signet of the Beastmaster as it is a grandmaster trait that basically has a shared game mechanic work the same for Ranger as it does for the other profession that possess the skill type (read all but Engineer)

My issue with this is: different classes, different signets, and some of the Ranger signets have really strong active effects.

I mean, stability for 6 seconds, invulnerability for 6 seconds… I’d praise signet of the hunt’s 50% bonus damage (Remember the thief’s old signet of the assassin?) if the ranger had better access to spike damage skills.

The cool downs on those really strong active effect come with more than negate the balance issue of signet on ranger without having to select a grandmaster trait to just get 3 of the 4 to act like normal signets.

Maybe the better solution is to just rename/retype the signets as well as the shout as they only function in the barest definition of skills in the shared type.

Bran.7425:

The cool downs on those really strong active effect come with more than negate the balance issue of signet on ranger without having to select a grandmaster trait to just get 3 of the 4 to act like normal signets.

Maybe the better solution is to just rename/retype the signets as well as the shout as they only function in the barest definition of skills in the shared type.

I won’t try and argue balance. I don’t have nearly the experience required with a ranger to push that point.

But by the Guild Wars 2 definition, ranger signets are consistent with all other classes. Signets provide a passive benefit until you use the active, at which point you lose the passive benefit until the signet recharges again. This is true of Rangers. They just have the theme of basing their actives around your pet, rather than yourself / allies / enemies.

I feel like I’ve gotten afield, since now I’m arguing that yes, ranger signets are signets, rather than “Signet of the Beastmaster lives up to its grandmaster status.” And given the way it changes how a few skills play to a significant degree while also giving the player a healthy boost in power, I’m inclined to say it does.

Softspoken.2410:

Evasive purity is befuddling to me. I feel like an auto-attack is generally a cheaper investment to remove a blind than a dodge roll. I can see the appeal of removing poison, but removing just poison?

It’s not a terrible idea, (though still weak for a Grandmaster) but it seems kind of limited in scope since it relies on your opponent using poison in the first place.

Bran.7425:

Signet of the Beastmaster as it is a grandmaster trait that basically has a shared game mechanic work the same for Ranger as it does for the other profession that possess the skill type (read all but Engineer)

My issue with this is: different classes, different signets, and some of the Ranger signets have really strong active effects.

I mean, stability for 6 seconds, invulnerability for 6 seconds… I’d praise signet of the hunt’s 50% bonus damage (Remember the thief’s old signet of the assassin?) if the ranger had better access to spike damage skills.

signet of stone doesn’t give you invulnerability, it only mitigates direct damage, condition dmg classes probably won’t even notice you used it, as conditions are applied and dmg as normal.

Wanderer.5471:

Softspoken.2410:

I mean, stability for 6 seconds, invulnerability for 6 seconds… I’d praise signet of the hunt’s 50% bonus damage (Remember the thief’s old signet of the assassin?) if the ranger had better access to spike damage skills.

signet of stone doesn’t give you invulnerability, it only mitigates direct damage, condition dmg classes probably won’t even notice you used it, as conditions are applied and dmg as normal.

Ah, point. Still, ignoring all direct damage is still nice against a condition heavy spec. Plenty of skills that apply conditions still have a direct damage component.

Wanderer.5471:

Softspoken.2410:

Evasive purity is befuddling to me. I feel like an auto-attack is generally a cheaper investment to remove a blind than a dodge roll. I can see the appeal of removing poison, but removing just poison?

It’s not a terrible idea, (though still weak for a Grandmaster) but it seems kind of limited in scope since it relies on your opponent using poison in the first place.

Bran.7425:

Signet of the Beastmaster as it is a grandmaster trait that basically has a shared game mechanic work the same for Ranger as it does for the other profession that possess the skill type (read all but Engineer)

My issue with this is: different classes, different signets, and some of the Ranger signets have really strong active effects.

I mean, stability for 6 seconds, invulnerability for 6 seconds… I’d praise signet of the hunt’s 50% bonus damage (Remember the thief’s old signet of the assassin?) if the ranger had better access to spike damage skills.

signet of stone doesn’t give you invulnerability, it only mitigates direct damage, condition dmg classes probably won’t even notice you used it, as conditions are applied and dmg as normal.

True, but that’s what sig of renewal is for! Which according to people on the forum first pulls all condis to you, an then almost instantly all go to your pet.

It’s all relative. Being able to remove a condition on dodge is hugely useful, but if you take it you have to give up traits that are far more useful.

Moment of Clarity – Rangers do not have a sufficient source of interupts, if this trait was given to say an elementalist it would be the most OP thing in the world but rangers have a very small amount of things to interupt. Does this ability also include pet interupts?)

Spirits Unbound – Since the spirits have no HP the number one way to kill them is to force them to stay with the ranger, however if you do not take this ability the chance that they will have be able to use their secondary abilities is almost nil. Spirits in general for sPvP are very poorly thought out.

Instinctual Bond – With the ability of pets to land hits, this will make them hit maybe twice… a GM trait that requires the player to die to be useful. This might be useful PvE since the mobs are not intelligent but PvP this is unacceptable. Most of the pet traits are very lackluster not because they do not give a good bonus, but because the pets are unreliable even when you slow your enemy.

Nature’s Wrath – Is useless because of how little healing you can actually aquire, the percentage needs to be boosted.

Peak Strength – Is useless because a ranger rarely ever has their health over 90%

Precise Strike – It useless because it is one hit out of many from the ranger who deal many small damage hits instead of large damaging hits. The ability to refresh Opening strikes leaves much to be desired in PvP. This ability is also almost always paired with a power/crit build meaning adding one additional crit one something that would probably already crit anyway is worthless.

Signet of the Beastmaster – Should be changed (at least for PvP) to automatically affect the player on the three signets it does affect. Signet of stone has the same effect on active as endure pain however signet of stone gains an additional second on its ability, is not a stun break and has a 120 second CD instead of a 90s one and requires a 30 pt investment into a power tree to be usable. This is faaaar to much punishment for an additional second. With one of the main issues with rangers being utility variability in builds why was this designed to make signets useless without it.

I do not believe Moment of Clarity works on stuns/dazed from the pet, but I know their duration is increased by it (or it was when this was originally added, I don’t tend to play with much in skirmishing) as for interrupts, we have 3 on ourself, an ele has… Well a lot less than we do with most weapon sets.

Instinctual Bond, this WAS, I repeat WAS a really good trait,
Pet gets ~15s of quickness when you get downed with a 5s CD? Omg yes, why would I not want you amazing quickness trait that allowed me to win oh so many fights? But now the quickness is kittening 5s okitten0s CD? I mean c’mon ANET, you say you dislike whackamole balance, why are you balancing rangers that way?

Spirits unbound + Double Health = very good spirits in tPvP, in PvE and pretty much everywhere else taking this trait makes me want to cry because it just leads to their death… PS: regen will heal your spirits.

Sig of BM is fine, granted our sigs need some love…

Everything else you said I agree with, mostly.

I’ve tested Moment of Clarity with the Bone item from the boar, and it works for that

That’s about it though. It only affects a few skills, but it might be good for a stun focused build.

EDIT: it was from the boar, not the warthog

Moment of Clarity works on Raven Form’s dazing screech, but who could possibly want 4.5s of AoE daze?

jubskie.3152:

I’ve tested Moment of Clarity with the Bone item from the boar, and it works for that

That’s about it though. It only affects a few skills, but it might be good for a stun focused build.

EDIT: it was from the boar, not the warthog

Thing with that is the boar F2 created the environmental weapon so you using it (while having the traits) is what gives it the increase duration not just the trait, so if anyone else uses the Bone it will have duration based on their stat/traits/gear