Guild Wars 2

The changes look like buffs with all the cooldown reductions, but the cooldown starting after the spirit dies has both a nerfed and a buffed effect:

Before patch:
If a spirit dies after 60 seconds, it can be active 100% of the time (60 out of 60 seconds)
If a spirit dies after 30 seconds, it can be active 50% of the time (30 out of 60 seconds)
If a spirit dies after 15 seconds, it can be active 25% of the time (15 out of 60 seconds)
If a spirit dies after 5 seconds, it can be active 8.3% of the time ( 5 out of 60 seconds)

After patch:
If a spirit dies after 60 seconds, it can be active 70.6% of the time (60 out of 85 seconds)
If a spirit dies after 30 seconds, it can be active 54.5% of the time (30 out of 55 seconds)
If a spirit dies after 15 seconds, it can be active 37.5% of the time (15 out of 40 seconds)
If a spirit dies after 5 seconds, it can be active 16.7% of the time ( 5 out of 30 seconds)

So it’s a buff to spirit uptime if they die before 35 seconds, but a nerf to spirits that survive for longer than 35 seconds. So I suppose it’s a buff to Nature’s Vengeance.

Solandri.9640:

histerico.6153:

Wrong ranger spirits now act like every other pet summoning skill and goes on cd when the summon dies

Great! So our spirits will now follow us around without us needing to trait for it, and they’ll actively attack/defend on their own instead of just give a buff?

They’ve essentially turned ranger spirits into warrior banners with all the disadvantages of guardian spirit weapons, plus the disadvantage of having to devote trait points to get them to be mobile like guardian spirits.

You’ve clearly never played a spirit weapons build…

Spirits are a combination of banners, minions, and turrets really.

PS: the more I check this forum the more I realize the ranger community can’t adapt at all…. Oh the irony…

Omg someone please lock this forum and stop all these whinners from posting, spirits are now actually better for tactical play.

Lower CD when killed! HOW IS THAT BAD?
I’m actually glad people are quitting ranger, let’s hope we can clear all the noise in this forum and make it a place where a new ranger generation can prosper.

Pets are not bad BTW, they are just a tool.

Since the spiritbuffs linger on for 10-15 seconds depending on luck after spirits dead we actually lose 10-15 seconds of the actual spiritbuff uptime. Tried it out and the the cd on spirits is 10 seconds after the actual buffs gone.

Kasama.8941:

How is this different then any other multiplayer game? You either adapt, or stop playing.

That’s the whole problem; when devs make stupid decisions, most people just stop playing.

The good thing about this game is that I don’t have to pay a monthly fee regardless of my level of fun. If they make a change that I don’t like, I can play other aspects of the game without supporting them!

Durzlla.6295:

PS: the more I check this forum the more I realize the ranger community can’t adapt at all…. Oh the irony…

It’s not a question of adapting. My non-ranger alts are for the most part easier to play than my ranger. Yet my ranger seems to get disproportionately hit by nerfs, while some key issues fundamental to the playstyle of the class have been ignored for nearly a year.

Yeah I could adapt to those nerfs on my ranger main, and in fact I have been for most of the year. The point is, I shouldn’t have to. If you read my post history, I’m actually pretty upbeat about rangers. I like the general playstyle of a ranged pet class. I don’t think they’re as bad off as the community here makes them out to be.

But I do see severe problems with the class. When I see those problems ignored for close to a year while complaints from non-rangers about rangers get addressed within a month, it’s pretty clear where Anet’s priorities are. It’s both upsetting and frustrating. I never wanted to believe we were second-class citizens, but that’s exactly what the evidence is pointing to.

Note: After crunching the numbers, I agree the change to spirits is a slight buff overall. If your spirits were living their full duration it’s a nerf, but if they were dying frequently it’s a buff. So on balance it’s a slight buff. It sucks for me because I’d gotten rather proficient at tucking spirits away around corners, behind objects, and on different levels to make sure they survived their full 60 sec. Now my spirit uptime will be reduced, while the unskilled “plop the spirit down anywhere” playstyle will have their spirit uptime increased to match or nearly match mine.

Solandri.9640:

Note: After crunching the numbers, I agree the change to spirits is a slight buff overall. If your spirits were living their full duration it’s a nerf, but if they were dying frequently it’s a buff. So on balance it’s a slight buff. It sucks for me because I’d gotten rather proficient at tucking spirits away around corners, behind objects, and on different levels to make sure they survived their full 60 sec. Now my spirit uptime will be reduced, while the unskilled “plop the spirit down anywhere” playstyle will have their spirit uptime increased to match or nearly match mine.

Thank you for taking your time to think the new changes. This change was a buff. The moment I read the spirit changes, the first thought into my mind was “Oh, spirits got buffed” because I know the class pretty well (1500+ hours with 2 legendaries). Now that the math is out, hopefully it can make people see it also. This is a good change for spirit builds for wvw and pvp imo.

Double posted by mistake.

Himei.5379:

Solandri.9640:

Note: After crunching the numbers, I agree the change to spirits is a slight buff overall. If your spirits were living their full duration it’s a nerf, but if they were dying frequently it’s a buff. So on balance it’s a slight buff. It sucks for me because I’d gotten rather proficient at tucking spirits away around corners, behind objects, and on different levels to make sure they survived their full 60 sec. Now my spirit uptime will be reduced, while the unskilled “plop the spirit down anywhere” playstyle will have their spirit uptime increased to match or nearly match mine.

Thank you for taking your time to think the new changes. This change was a buff. The moment I read the spirit changes, the first thought into my mind was “Oh, spirits got buffed” because I know the class pretty well (1500+ hours with 2 legendaries). Now that the math is out, hopefully it can make people see it also. This is a good change for spirit builds for wvw and pvp imo.

No, this is a nerf. It penalizes good players who were able to keep their spirits alive for their full duration. I frequently did the dungeons hotw, arah, cof p1, and SE and my spirits rarely died from aoe attacks unless I suicided them to get their actives. And yes, SOME bosses would inevitably kill them, but the majority of the time I kept them alive. For me, this is a nerf.

And I’m kitten ed as kitten because people already prefer guardian or ele over me.

I don’t think it will make much of a difference in pvp. In pve it’s a nerf at least for me because I don’t use spirit unbound and my frost spirit almost never dies.

zarcon.7820:

Pets are okay. Spirits are also okay.
The ranger is perfectly balanced now imo.

Thanks for your elaborated post.
You posted 6 times on this forum in the last 8 months. All of your posts are pretty much one line long.
It’s quite curious how these pro guys defending this terribly designed class aka “king of passive play” never support their pointless and absurd statements with adequate elaboration or explanation.

Fjandi.2516:

zarcon.7820:

Pets are okay. Spirits are also okay.
The ranger is perfectly balanced now imo.

Thanks for your elaborated post.
You posted 6 times on this forum in the last 8 months. All of your posts are pretty much one line long.
It’s quite curious how these pro guys defending this terribly designed class aka “king of passive play” never support their pointless and absurd statements with adequate elaboration or explanation.

Because while you’re crying, we are adapting.

Heiltdo.2891:

Because while you’re crying, we are adapting.

Crying? Lol man i don’t give a kitten about spirits “nerf”. I’ve always hated playing that spec i wish they reworked the whole spirits mechanic. I’m still playing the build with no changes and still spamming skills like a baws since this game encourages me to do that. But hey other players can now actively react to our passive effects lol.
Everyone saying the ranger is perfectly balanced or designed is nothing but a fool in my eyes.

Kasama.8941:

thrice.9184:

Kasama.8941:

I’m always amazed at the amount of outcry on this forum, based on changes that aren’t even tested yet. A couple of weeks later, someone finds an entire new and effective Ranger build, and this will all be forgotten.

Until it gets nerfed.

Im all out of optimism.

How is this different then any other multiplayer game? You either adapt, or stop playing.

There’s a problem with this way of thinking. If the trend of nerfs continues without providing buffs in other areas, you inevitably reach a point where every viable build has been nerfed so much, it becomes more effective to simply play another class.

Castaliea.3156:

I had a nice reply all typed up but go figure the forums glitch and I lose it the one god kitten time I don’t select all and copy before clicking post…

Anyways, I’ve been playing GW games since Pre but it’s clear there is nothing left of the old ANet who dreamed of GW2. They had how many weeks to work on skill changes and they did what with that? I’ve had enough of this new company’s lies and incompetence.

I’m uninstalling.
Have fun with your useless profession mechanic, kitten -poor designed traits and utility skills, lazily band-aided weapons, and last but not least your completely ignored profession sub forums and suggestions.

Ok bye. We’ll see you again when you reinstall the game a week later once you see that other MMOs do things worse.

Relshdan.6854:

spvp is ruining the game for the rest of us.
if you will not split the skills, then end it please. only a tiny tiny tiny fraction of the playerbase even uses that mode of the game.

But…but…Esports! Esports everywhere! /Sarcasm

Levetty.1279:

Has there ever been another MMO where the universally agreed worst class constantly gets nerfs?

Warriors in Everquest and Everquest 2 got the shaft hard a lot back in the day when they were already UP

Fungalfoot.7213:

Should have been a PvP only nerf. ArenaNet once again drops the ball.

Can we please just get rid of SPvP already? It’s destroying the game.

Sometimes I wonder if they secretly hired Jack Emmert and Dave Bowman to head the dev team here. What will be in a patch in the near future? Rangers removed completely from the game?

Is kinda funny cuz when I 1st made my ranger (spirit from the start only to swap to signet) I did what ever I could to keep them alive.

Now I want them to die asap (for Nature’s Vengeance). How do spirit actives interact with with the ranger’s stats?

Setun.4368:

Castaliea.3156:

I had a nice reply all typed up but go figure the forums glitch and I lose it the one god kitten time I don’t select all and copy before clicking post…

Anyways, I’ve been playing GW games since Pre but it’s clear there is nothing left of the old ANet who dreamed of GW2. They had how many weeks to work on skill changes and they did what with that? I’ve had enough of this new company’s lies and incompetence.

I’m uninstalling.
Have fun with your useless profession mechanic, kitten -poor designed traits and utility skills, lazily band-aided weapons, and last but not least your completely ignored profession sub forums and suggestions.

Ok bye. We’ll see you again when you reinstall the game a week later once you see that other MMOs do things worse.

That’s such a generic reply it’s pathetic. Been playing GW since pre searing and I see the changes this company has undergone. If you try to deny the fact they marketed the game differently than how they are currently implementing content you’re probably more dense than a skrit. I really don’t care about this new gear or skill changes, hell I never use spirits. I only care that they (ANet) as a company have completely forsaken what they used to be and left everyone else behind.

Castaliea.3156:

Setun.4368:

Ok bye. We’ll see you again when you reinstall the game a week later once you see that other MMOs do things worse.

That’s such a generic reply it’s pathetic. Been playing GW since pre searing and I see the changes this company has undergone. If you try to deny the fact they marketed the game differently than how they are currently implementing content you’re probably more dense than a skrit. I really don’t care about this new gear or skill changes, hell I never use spirits. I only care that they (ANet) as a company has completely forsaken what they used to be and left everyone else behind.

….maybe you should step away from the game for a bit. No, seriously, go play something else like you claim you are and see just how clunky and boring the combat / playstyle of other MMOs are. Since you’re not talking about the ranger changes to spirits, then let’s talk about the fact that Anet has pretty much said they’re trying to bring new, entertaining content to the game, whether that’s via living story stuff, and/or new minigames, or pvp stuff like new finishers, maps for spvp, and wvw perks. They’re trying to please a wide range of players, not just the pve-centric or pvp-centric players, but casual and hardcore players. You go ahead and try doing all that while keeping patches on a regular 2 week basis. I know I’m not the only one who not only enjoys the hell out of my ranger, but all the classes I have maxed out. I’ve found what keeps the game fresh and new for me, which is wvw, and the new living story stuff. If you can’t find any enjoyment for this amazing game because you’re hung up about some obscure ideology then that sucks for you. I’ll be over here actually playing and enjoying the game.

P.S.
For the record if you want to see a company that turned their back completely on what they promised look at Darkfall. That piece of kitten had almost no content out when it went live, despite its claims of being able to build your own cities, hire guards, and have dynamic events like NPCs attacking player made infrastructure over time at launch. Hell, they even went as far as deleting any and all youtube videos showcasing these supposed features.

LOLLL Spirits got gged by minority spvpers.
TBH, I’ve accepted that rangers are always gonna get nerfed. But I will keep playing mine till the day anet deletes the ranger class.

It does seem like spirits probably just got nerfed because of sPvP balance concerns.

I’d be willing to bet that sPvP is less popular than PvE or WvW, though, and spirits have never been very powerful or popular in either of those areas, so weakening them just seems baffling to most players.

I guess I don’t really care because, as someone who never plays sPvP, I rarely used spirits and think if anything they needed a buff. Now I’ll just continue not using them. It’s still frustrating to see sPvP concerns driving balance decisions for the more popular game types, though.

I don’t think we can consider this as a “nerf” because yes we lost the 0 cd on pre cast spirits but when in combat (in Herath of the Mists) most of the times we die and come back to fight in less than 60 sec (if you are in a low skilled party) so the low cd is better for fast restarts but bad for long matches (without die) or simply matches with player who kill your spirits instead of you XD (AoE and more)… this will make spirits better for WvW because you can sacrifice them a get only a 25 sec cd… also the 180 sec on spirit of nature is very good too… this patch has pros and cons… unforunately on the wrong class :<

This “update” was a nerf mostly.

What funny was in the last invasions:
My character didn’t finished the “I chose you” shout before swapped pet died.
How great ^^ Anyway, today morning, it was 8 second for the pet to hit the target that was just standing by…

Quarktastic.1027:

Kasama.8941:

thrice.9184:

Kasama.8941:

I’m always amazed at the amount of outcry on this forum, based on changes that aren’t even tested yet. A couple of weeks later, someone finds an entire new and effective Ranger build, and this will all be forgotten.

Until it gets nerfed.

Im all out of optimism.

How is this different then any other multiplayer game? You either adapt, or stop playing.

There’s a problem with this way of thinking. If the trend of nerfs continues without providing buffs in other areas, you inevitably reach a point where every viable build has been nerfed so much, it becomes more effective to simply play another class.

But they did add buffs to the spirits, as many have been trying to explain already. If the spirit dies within 35 seconds, you are better off then you were before the patch. And Spirit of Nature also got its recharge time reduced by 60 seconds.

Setun.4368:

Castaliea.3156:

Setun.4368:

Ok bye. We’ll see you again when you reinstall the game a week later once you see that other MMOs do things worse.

That’s such a generic reply it’s pathetic. Been playing GW since pre searing and I see the changes this company has undergone. If you try to deny the fact they marketed the game differently than how they are currently implementing content you’re probably more dense than a skrit. I really don’t care about this new gear or skill changes, hell I never use spirits. I only care that they (ANet) as a company has completely forsaken what they used to be and left everyone else behind.

….maybe you should step away from the game for a bit. No, seriously, go play something else like you claim you are and see just how clunky and boring the combat / playstyle of other MMOs are. Since you’re not talking about the ranger changes to spirits, then let’s talk about the fact that Anet has pretty much said they’re trying to bring new, entertaining content to the game, whether that’s via living story stuff, and/or new minigames, or pvp stuff like new finishers, maps for spvp, and wvw perks. They’re trying to please a wide range of players, not just the pve-centric or pvp-centric players, but casual and hardcore players. You go ahead and try doing all that while keeping patches on a regular 2 week basis. I know I’m not the only one who not only enjoys the hell out of my ranger, but all the classes I have maxed out. I’ve found what keeps the game fresh and new for me, which is wvw, and the new living story stuff. If you can’t find any enjoyment for this amazing game because you’re hung up about some obscure ideology then that sucks for you. I’ll be over here actually playing and enjoying the game.

P.S.
For the record if you want to see a company that turned their back completely on what they promised look at Darkfall. That piece of kitten had almost no content out when it went live, despite its claims of being able to build your own cities, hire guards, and have dynamic events like NPCs attacking player made infrastructure over time at launch. Hell, they even went as far as deleting any and all youtube videos showcasing these supposed features.

You’re completely missing the point lmfao. That’s okay though, critical reading isn’t typically the strong suit of a lot of people here.

barely use spirits so i find it hard to care…

but this…

Chopps.5047:

Spirit of Nature: Recharge has been reduced from 240 seconds to 180 seconds.

i like… i like a lot

I feel like the HP of summons in this game is way too low to have lengthy resummon cooldowns of any kind. So I don’t know if this was the right change.

Amethyst Lure.5624:

I feel like the HP of summons in this game is way too low to have lengthy resummon cooldowns of any kind. So I don’t know if this was the right change.

25 isn’t lengthy, and the reason they have that is because summon builds tend to be REALLY tanky by default, but still have damage due to the summons. If the summons could be brought up super easily (phantasm mesmers say “Hi”) then it sort of forces your hand to try to cut off the head as quickly as possible because taking out their minions is simply too difficult.

Chopps.5047:

Roll guardian, it’s untouchable really by the dev team and community. Necro on the other hand…

I wouldn’t say untouchable. I still remember the nerf to Symbol of Wrath (10s→20s) and the nerf to Spirit Weapons (immortal for the duration→killed in ~2 hits).

But yeah, Guardian does feel like it is finally in a decent spot.
(Unless JP is just missing the Guardian Post-It note while throwing darts randomly at the nerf-board)

When you create a ranger if u click icon they need to put a warning Window saying (are u sure u don’t want a guardian) XD

Aveneo.2068:

Chopps.5047:

Roll guardian, it’s untouchable really by the dev team and community. Necro on the other hand…

I wouldn’t say untouchable. I still remember the nerf to Symbol of Wrath (10s->20s) and the nerf to Spirit Weapons (immortal for the duration->killed in ~2 hits).

But yeah, Guardian does feel like it is finally in a decent spot.
(Unless JP is just missing the Guardian Post-It note while throwing darts randomly at the nerf-board)

Not just untouchable, but the last SoTG, they mentioned wanting to make the guardian even better, particularly at things like smiting conditions from themselves and teammates (I’m assuming they want to do this to give guardians a reliable option besides shout builds).

The one thing that bothers me is how devs still haven’t addressed empathic bond being rangers only traitable, only reliable source of condi removal, but guardians are the ones that need more options. My jaw hit the floor on that one, admittedly.

Durzlla.6295:

PS: the more I check this forum the more I realize the ranger community can’t adapt at all…. Oh the irony…

I have said it many times: with other classes, you lean to play and adapt to have an edge, with Rangers you learn to play and adapt to overcome the class limitations and be on an “even field” with the rest.

Ofc, this is outside sPvP, but that’s not what most people play.

Soronthar.7236:

Durzlla.6295:

PS: the more I check this forum the more I realize the ranger community can’t adapt at all…. Oh the irony…

I have said it many times: with other classes, you lean to play and adapt to have an edge, with Rangers you learn to play and adapt to overcome the class limitations and be on an “even field” with the rest.

Ofc, this is outside sPvP, but that’s not what most people play.

I will say that rangers do have to try harder to be on par/have an edge than other profs, which sucks, but it could be worse, we could be like eles where it’s essentially spend 20-30 in arcane or die (I’m still trying to break that but am having no luck AT ALL).

I can’t wait until they kittening fix the severe trait imbalances among the profs…

Durzlla.6295:

Soronthar.7236:

Durzlla.6295:

PS: the more I check this forum the more I realize the ranger community can’t adapt at all…. Oh the irony…

I have said it many times: with other classes, you lean to play and adapt to have an edge, with Rangers you learn to play and adapt to overcome the class limitations and be on an “even field” with the rest.

Ofc, this is outside sPvP, but that’s not what most people play.

I will say that rangers do have to try harder to be on par/have an edge than other profs, which sucks, but it could be worse, we could be like eles where it’s essentially spend 20-30 in arcane or die (I’m still trying to break that but am having no luck AT ALL).

I can’t wait until they kittening fix the severe trait imbalances among the profs…

Rangers and Eles are extremely on par with each other, generally being forced into heavy defensive specs in order to be viable, and having very necessary grandmaster traits in order to have any sort of defense.

Rangers and Eles are both in need of the same sort of changes, and if the thread highlighting JPs responses in a live stream is to be trusted, there are some “bigger” QoL changes coming on October 1, so hopefully things like this are addressed.

jcbroe.4329:

Durzlla.6295:

Soronthar.7236:

Durzlla.6295:

PS: the more I check this forum the more I realize the ranger community can’t adapt at all…. Oh the irony…

I have said it many times: with other classes, you lean to play and adapt to have an edge, with Rangers you learn to play and adapt to overcome the class limitations and be on an “even field” with the rest.

Ofc, this is outside sPvP, but that’s not what most people play.

I will say that rangers do have to try harder to be on par/have an edge than other profs, which sucks, but it could be worse, we could be like eles where it’s essentially spend 20-30 in arcane or die (I’m still trying to break that but am having no luck AT ALL).

I can’t wait until they kittening fix the severe trait imbalances among the profs…

Rangers and Eles are extremely on par with each other, generally being forced into heavy defensive specs in order to be viable, and having very necessary grandmaster traits in order to have any sort of defense.

Rangers and Eles are both in need of the same sort of changes, and if the thread highlighting JPs responses in a live stream is to be trusted, there are some “bigger” QoL changes coming on October 1, so hopefully things like this are addressed.

I find hit hilarious (and depressing) that my 2 favorite profs are the most kitten in the area I like most about GW2 (traits)

Durzlla.6295:

jcbroe.4329:

Durzlla.6295:

Soronthar.7236:

Durzlla.6295:

PS: the more I check this forum the more I realize the ranger community can’t adapt at all…. Oh the irony…

I have said it many times: with other classes, you lean to play and adapt to have an edge, with Rangers you learn to play and adapt to overcome the class limitations and be on an “even field” with the rest.

Ofc, this is outside sPvP, but that’s not what most people play.

I will say that rangers do have to try harder to be on par/have an edge than other profs, which sucks, but it could be worse, we could be like eles where it’s essentially spend 20-30 in arcane or die (I’m still trying to break that but am having no luck AT ALL).

I can’t wait until they kittening fix the severe trait imbalances among the profs…

Rangers and Eles are extremely on par with each other, generally being forced into heavy defensive specs in order to be viable, and having very necessary grandmaster traits in order to have any sort of defense.

Rangers and Eles are both in need of the same sort of changes, and if the thread highlighting JPs responses in a live stream is to be trusted, there are some “bigger” QoL changes coming on October 1, so hopefully things like this are addressed.

I find hit hilarious (and depressing) that my 2 favorite profs are the most kitten in the area I like most about GW2 (traits)

Exactly! And then on classes like my necro, I can have full offensive traits (Dhuumfire and Terror), and still have 20 points left over, which I invest in the toughness line so that my staff’s full AoE condi transfer recharges faster and I can remove conditions when entering death shroud. Or on my guardian I can take Altruistic Healing, Healing Symbols, and Turn condis into boons with shouts, and still have 10 points left over to reduce the recharge of the signet heal.

I see those types of incredible, additive options, and then I look at classes like Ranger and Ele and go… what were they thinking when they made these traits and/or utilities? Other classes just seem to have more useful traits, that do more for them, and can be added to almost any build and be effective.

jcbroe.4329:

Durzlla.6295:

jcbroe.4329:

Durzlla.6295:

Soronthar.7236:

Durzlla.6295:

PS: the more I check this forum the more I realize the ranger community can’t adapt at all…. Oh the irony…

I have said it many times: with other classes, you lean to play and adapt to have an edge, with Rangers you learn to play and adapt to overcome the class limitations and be on an “even field” with the rest.

Ofc, this is outside sPvP, but that’s not what most people play.

I will say that rangers do have to try harder to be on par/have an edge than other profs, which sucks, but it could be worse, we could be like eles where it’s essentially spend 20-30 in arcane or die (I’m still trying to break that but am having no luck AT ALL).

I can’t wait until they kittening fix the severe trait imbalances among the profs…

Rangers and Eles are extremely on par with each other, generally being forced into heavy defensive specs in order to be viable, and having very necessary grandmaster traits in order to have any sort of defense.

Rangers and Eles are both in need of the same sort of changes, and if the thread highlighting JPs responses in a live stream is to be trusted, there are some “bigger” QoL changes coming on October 1, so hopefully things like this are addressed.

I find hit hilarious (and depressing) that my 2 favorite profs are the most kitten in the area I like most about GW2 (traits)

Exactly! And then on classes like my necro, I can have full offensive traits (Dhuumfire and Terror), and still have 20 points left over, which I invest in the toughness line so that my staff’s full AoE condi transfer recharges faster and I can remove conditions when entering death shroud. Or on my guardian I can take Altruistic Healing, Healing Symbols, and Turn condis into boons with shouts, and still have 10 points left over to reduce the recharge of the signet heal.

I see those types of incredible, additive options, and then I look at classes like Ranger and Ele and go… what were they thinking when they made these traits and/or utilities? Other classes just seem to have more useful traits, that do more for them, and can be added to almost any build and be effective.

I gotta say, ele has some of my favorite utilities in the game, their conjures need just a TINY bit of love (too much and they’ll be OP), but overall are good, ranger utilities… Well lets just say signets and generic utility type (survival) are our best and most interesting… They just need to totally revamp those… And our traits… And give our pets a TINY bit of love(mostly responsiveness).

I love making builds on my engi because I literally want to use EVERYTHING, it’s just so good!! All profs traits/utilities need to be closer to engis (not saying copy paste just saying make everything look like a good choice).

PS: totally only speaking of PvP, pets need some sort of auto kill immunity (not so much AoE immunity, only things like the Laser walls and shockwaves, aka things a player can avoid but they can’t).

No doubt about it, our trait lines needs a total re work, and evaluation on effectiveness.

These are horrible Spirit Changes, especially in PvE.

They are now litterally PENALIZING us for managing to keep our spirits alive the full 60 seconds. It’s time for PvE splits. It’s been time for them for a LONG KITTEN TIME NOW.

Really getting fed up with this stuff.
And even more fed up with Sharp’s excuses and outright refusals to do Splits.
He needs to be fired. I’m dead serious about this.

ilr.9675:

These are horrible Spirit Changes, especially in PvE.

They are now litterally PENALIZING us for managing to keep our spirits alive the full 60 seconds. It’s time for PvE splits. It’s been time for them for a LONG KITTEN TIME NOW.

Really getting fed up with this stuff.
And even more fed up with Sharp’s excuses and outright refusals to do Splits.
He needs to be fired. I’m dead serious about this.

I believe they’re considering splits more. Especially when it comes to pets and spirits.

kreios.7108:

When you create a ranger if u click icon they need to put a warning Window saying (are u sure u don’t want a guardian) XD

I’m pretty sure most Teir1 WvW guilds would pay triple digit gold values to have this dialogue box pop up when a person clicks “Join”.

Having not played spvp much lately, I was surprised to see these changes weren’t the case to begin with and was surprised by all the complaining about ranger spirits. I’m glad this is fixed.

Lower CD when killed! HOW IS THAT BAD?

I only play PvE, so my opinions do not reflect how this affects other areas of the game.

This is a poor update to the skill because it creates a play-style that focuses on a spirit needing to be killed a certain time to be considered at peak efficiency. As stated above, this plays into Nature’s Vengeance which is only truly effective if you plan on letting your spirits die. I have always considered that to be a counter-productive idea.

A skilled player in the past could keep the spirit in range and hidden in a safe spot, or if they chose to, invest and give the spirits movement. In easier encounters this led to spirits being very effective in PvE since the ai will ignore them with direct attacks for the most part, only cleaving or hitting with aoe. With these new updates, there is a distinct disadvantage in any encounter that lasts more than 60 seconds (which many mechanic fights will).

This, combined with the internal cool-down on Sun Spirit, Stone Spirit and Storm Spirit proc effect, the fact that Stone & Storm Spirit will not apply buffs to players that are already under the affect of Protection and Swiftness respectively, creates a very unreasonable amount of constraint on something that really should only need to act as a party-wide buff with a bonus skill for the Ranger.

With these changes there is no reason to run spirits if you cannot kill foes with in the 60-second lifespan, if you can, then to have them available as soon as possible, swapping the utility slots to different skills triggers the cool-down. This is the only time 25 seconds seems nice. The harsh reality: just one step forward, two steps back.

TL;DR: If you’re skilled enough to keep it alive for 60-seconds, its got a 25-second cool-down. If it was in a bad spot or ate an aoe, its got a 25-second cool-down. There is no reward for keeping a spirit alive for the full duration. If spirits had a lifespan similar to minions, this change would still reward skilled use. Obviously a mechanic like this would need exclude the elite spirit, which would be balanced around its fixed duration.

So basically it shifted from a passive “keep it alive as long as possible” to an active “kill it as soon as possible” style.

I mostly only wvw (pug life) on my ranger and this change makes spirits more usable now because I get rewarded for when they die (and note, they WILL die). It’s way easier to get them killed than to keep them alive.

I get rewarded for when they die (and note, they WILL die)

They can be fragile, but they can survive Subject Alpha as well. All depends how you use them.

I’ve seen a few outright errors on the first page so a few points of clarity.

1) Spirits still last for 60 seconds but their cooldown of 25 seconds does not start until the spirit dies. Essentially assuming spirits are never killed they will be down for 25 seconds out of every 85 seconds. Nature’s Renewal was never able to be in play at all times but is unchanged as it does not start it’s cooldown until it dies but the cooldown was reduced by 60 seconds.

2) Ranger spirits are not destroyed when activated like untraited guardian weapons. The traited ranger spirits simply use their activated abilities when killed or when they expire in addition to any uses of it you make while the spirit is alive.

I’ve been using a spirit ranger modified slightly for mobility in small scale WvW for quite some time now and this patch is a slight nerf I feel but is not as bad as it initially sounds. There are some minor benefits to this change if you read between the lines.

Spirit cooldowns starting when the spirit dies is actually a slight buff if the spirits are actually killed quickly (arrow carts are notorious for this). The cooldown is NOT extended by 25 seconds to 85 seconds, it has been changed to 25 seconds, full stop. The cooldown just starts when the spirit ends instead of starting. Therefore, if you spirit is killed before it has been alive 35 seconds you will actually get it back faster now than you would have previously. Nature’s Renewal was actually only buffed albeit slightly. The cooldown being reduced by one minute means that it comes up exactly as often as it did pre-patch, with the exception that if the spirit is killed before it expires it will come back faster than it did before.

The primary changes are that you now need to summon spirits as the fight starts instead of just leaving them up at all times when moving around. Not a big deal really and entirely manageable.

The bigger threat is that if a fight last significantly longer than one minute you will have to deal with not having them for 25 seconds. Most notably this means if you are full spirit traited as I am you have 3 major traits that are doing nothing in this timeframe. Even with that being said there is good reason for this to be the case. The buffs doled out by spirits ARE really that strong, especially when shared by a five man group. Having protection on your party literally about half the time is a big deal and is a big part of what allows my team to fight outmanned as they can trait and gear for heavy damage and the spirit will largely mitigate their lack of toughness.

I was not happy at all reading the patch notes but having tried it the build is hardly dead but I wouldn’t use it for PvE any more. It did a lot to illustrate just how big a difference the spirits make and I’m fine with it as is now.

Lunchbox.9543:

Lower CD when killed! HOW IS THAT BAD?

Edited for brevity.

TL;DR: If you’re skilled enough to keep it alive for 60-seconds, its got a 25-second cool-down. If it was in a bad spot or ate an aoe, its got a 25-second cool-down. There is no reward for keeping a spirit alive for the full duration. If spirits had a lifespan similar to minions, this change would still reward skilled use. Obviously a mechanic like this would need exclude the elite spirit, which would be balanced around its fixed duration.

Incorrect, there is a distinct advantage to not having spirits killed early, namely uptime on the buffs they provide.

Your spirit has a 25 second cooldown regardless of its lifespan. If it is lasting 60 seconds on each cast then it is alive doing its job for 60 out of every 85 seconds or 70.5% of the time.

If your spirit is averaging a 30 second life each time it’s summoned then it will be up for 30 out of every 55 seconds or 54.5% of the time. I use 30 second lifespan as an example deliberately because previously if your spirit was averaging a 30 second lifespan then it would be up for 30 of every 60 seconds or 50% of the time. So you can see that the cooldown change isn’t all bad. The only people who are going to see major changes are those who were keeping spirits up at all times.

I’m aware that the numbers will change ever so slightly due to the cast time when summoning the spirits but the overall trend will not be affected in any significant way by this and in fact will actually save you time in not having to resummon if you keep spirits alive longer for a second minor benefit to keeping them alive. As for the stone spirit not applying protection to people who already have protection I’m not sure this is actually correct either, though perhaps someone can confirm. I was under the impression that the spirit proc would extend the duration of any protection the player already had as protection stacks duration not intensity but perhaps I’m mistaken.

SynfulChaot.3169:

I believe they’re considering splits more. Especially when it comes to pets and spirits.

I really hope you’re right about that.
But in the meantime I’ve heard 50 different rumors from sources claiming to be in Test Krewe or who knew someone in it, and ain’t seen 1 yet that was even in the same zipcode