Guild Wars 2

that +50% damage does the same DPS of one stack of bleeding

Why is it that when I read the new traits and changes for other classes I go “drooolll…” and when I look at Rangers, I go “it’s OK, we’re used to this” (I has a sad.jpg)

Kolisch.4691:

Why is it that when I read the new traits and changes for other classes I go “drooolll…” and when I look at Rangers, I go “it’s OK, we’re used to this” (I has a sad.jpg)

I don’t think that’s entirely true, but that’s just my opinion. Like for instance, I’d say that nothing that the elementalist is receiving really looks all that interesting or even build changing, unless I guess you really want to try that hard to force yourself into a healing role that the game just isn’t designed to handle in the same manner that holy trinity games work.

Outside of that, Engineers only get Bunker Down really, and Guardians would be giving up more than they gain for every one of their new traits outside of Amplified Wrath. Thieves don’t really gain anything that’s worth giving up something they already have either.

The three classes that do stand to gain a slew of useful traits are Warriors with Burst Precision, Dual Wield Agility, and Phalanx Strength, Necros with Parasitic Contagion, Path of Corruption, Unholy Santuary, AND Unholy Martyr, and of course Mesmers with Power Block, Triumphant Distortion (only in PvE though), and Bountiful Disillusionment.

However, Rangers get some neat tricks too. Read the Wind is going to be quite decent when combined with Eagle Eye. Min/Max’ers are going to complain about not being able to maximize damage and long distance accuracy, but it allows longbow users to obtain a niche role not currently present in the game, especially at the 1500 range distance.

Poison Master looks interesting, but competes with Empathic Bond, which means you lose condition removal in any build not going for the new Survival of the Fittest, so it’s hard to tell how valuable the trait will be versus it’s tradeoffs.

HOWEVER, survival of the fittest is great, and creates a lot of build diversity within builds that aren’t spirits/traps/active spirits, like power builds that previously took Empathic Bond for cleansing, and of course our Beastmaster based builds that now don’t have to kill that pet they are empowering with Empathic Bond.

Also, depending on how strong the heal is, Invigorating Bond has the potential to be strong as well, and could possibly be used to create pretty much unkillable builds, if the heal is strong enough.

Shouts on the ranger will never be used again now, but hey, that’s a design issue.

jcbroe.4329:

Kolisch.4691:

Why is it that when I read the new traits and changes for other classes I go “drooolll…” and when I look at Rangers, I go “it’s OK, we’re used to this” (I has a sad.jpg)

I don’t think that’s entirely true, but that’s just my opinion. Like for instance, I’d say that nothing that the elementalist is receiving really looks all that interesting or even build changing, unless I guess you really want to try that hard to force yourself into a healing role that the game just isn’t designed to handle in the same manner that holy trinity games work.

Outside of that, Engineers only get Bunker Down really, and Guardians would be giving up more than they gain for every one of their new traits outside of Amplified Wrath. Thieves don’t really gain anything that’s worth giving up something they already have either.

The three classes that do stand to gain a slew of useful traits are Warriors with Burst Precision, Dual Wield Agility, and Phalanx Strength, Necros with Parasitic Contagion, Path of Corruption, Unholy Santuary, AND Unholy Martyr, and of course Mesmers with Power Block, Triumphant Distortion (only in PvE though), and Bountiful Disillusionment.

However, Rangers get some neat tricks too. Read the Wind is going to be quite decent when combined with Eagle Eye. Min/Max’ers are going to complain about not being able to maximize damage and long distance accuracy, but it allows longbow users to obtain a niche role not currently present in the game, especially at the 1500 range distance.

Poison Master looks interesting, but competes with Empathic Bond, which means you lose condition removal in any build not going for the new Survival of the Fittest, so it’s hard to tell how valuable the trait will be versus it’s tradeoffs.

HOWEVER, survival of the fittest is great, and creates a lot of build diversity within builds that aren’t spirits/traps/active spirits, like power builds that previously took Empathic Bond for cleansing, and of course our Beastmaster based builds that now don’t have to kill that pet they are empowering with Empathic Bond.

Also, depending on how strong the heal is, Invigorating Bond has the potential to be strong as well, and could possibly be used to create pretty much unkillable builds, if the heal is strong enough.

Shouts on the ranger will never be used again now, but hey, that’s a design issue.

good observation. in my opinion, like you said as well, a lot of ranger players are convinced that rangers got it rough again this patch with our new GM. In reality is, out of the 5 new traits that we got, in my opinion only 2 are not worth taking. Marksmanship: Read the Wind and Skirmishing: Strider’s Defense. Like you mentioned as well, I can tell you play or are familiar with other classes and how they are built.

Thief, Guardian, Engineer, and Warrior’s new traits wouldn’t be worth taking with the current meta right now in my opinion, cause there are so much better traits right now that they could take that would be more effective than what is being given. Besides Warrior’s Phalanx Strength which is REALLY good specially in WVW and Thieves Bewildering Ambush for condition build roamers.

Like you said as well, other professions like Mesmer… OOOHHHH… can’t wait for a good Mesmer to see that Power Block trait being put to use! are something to look out for. (But im glad GW2 Mesmer’s are turning into GW1 Mesmer)

Read the Wind is going to be quite decent when combined with Eagle Eye. Min/Max’ers are going to complain about not being able to maximize damage and long distance accuracy, but it allows longbow users to obtain a niche role not currently present in the game, especially at the 1500 range distance.

Eh, let’s not go crazy here.
1200 versus 1500 is, in all honesty, a pretty trivial distance. It’s the distance of a single dodge, to put things into perspective. It’s nice and all, but I can’t imagine what role actually exists in that small space. Is there a wall somewhere you can stand on top of where it’s possible to hit something vitally important 1400 units away?

AEFA.9035:

jcbroe.4329:

Kolisch.4691:

Why is it that when I read the new traits and changes for other classes I go “drooolll…” and when I look at Rangers, I go “it’s OK, we’re used to this” (I has a sad.jpg)

I don’t think that’s entirely true, but that’s just my opinion. Like for instance, I’d say that nothing that the elementalist is receiving really looks all that interesting or even build changing, unless I guess you really want to try that hard to force yourself into a healing role that the game just isn’t designed to handle in the same manner that holy trinity games work.

Outside of that, Engineers only get Bunker Down really, and Guardians would be giving up more than they gain for every one of their new traits outside of Amplified Wrath. Thieves don’t really gain anything that’s worth giving up something they already have either.

The three classes that do stand to gain a slew of useful traits are Warriors with Burst Precision, Dual Wield Agility, and Phalanx Strength, Necros with Parasitic Contagion, Path of Corruption, Unholy Santuary, AND Unholy Martyr, and of course Mesmers with Power Block, Triumphant Distortion (only in PvE though), and Bountiful Disillusionment.

However, Rangers get some neat tricks too. Read the Wind is going to be quite decent when combined with Eagle Eye. Min/Max’ers are going to complain about not being able to maximize damage and long distance accuracy, but it allows longbow users to obtain a niche role not currently present in the game, especially at the 1500 range distance.

Poison Master looks interesting, but competes with Empathic Bond, which means you lose condition removal in any build not going for the new Survival of the Fittest, so it’s hard to tell how valuable the trait will be versus it’s tradeoffs.

HOWEVER, survival of the fittest is great, and creates a lot of build diversity within builds that aren’t spirits/traps/active spirits, like power builds that previously took Empathic Bond for cleansing, and of course our Beastmaster based builds that now don’t have to kill that pet they are empowering with Empathic Bond.

Also, depending on how strong the heal is, Invigorating Bond has the potential to be strong as well, and could possibly be used to create pretty much unkillable builds, if the heal is strong enough.

Shouts on the ranger will never be used again now, but hey, that’s a design issue.

good observation. in my opinion, like you said as well, a lot of ranger players are convinced that rangers got it rough again this patch with our new GM. In reality is, out of the 5 new traits that we got, in my opinion only 2 are not worth taking. Marksmanship: Read the Wind and Skirmishing: Strider’s Defense. Like you mentioned as well, I can tell you play or are familiar with other classes and how they are built.

Thief, Guardian, Engineer, and Warrior’s new traits wouldn’t be worth taking with the current meta right now in my opinion, cause there are so much better traits right now that they could take that would be more effective than what is being given. Besides Warrior’s Phalanx Strength which is REALLY good specially in WVW and Thieves Bewildering Ambush for condition build roamers.

Like you said as well, other professions like Mesmer… OOOHHHH… can’t wait for a good Mesmer to see that Power Block trait being put to use! are something to look out for. (But im glad GW2 Mesmer’s are turning into GW1 Mesmer)

MAN I miss interrupt builds lol. I’m sad to see that I will probably never get to play an interrupt ranger in Guild Wars 2 and feel that same sense of excitement and involvement as landing Distracting Shot on a Word of Healing, but I’m super excited that Mesmers are on their way to being able to perform like a Guild Wars 1 Domination mesmer (pBlock being my favorite mesmer build ever).

But yeah, I can definitely see the dispute over how useful Read the Wind is going to be lol. I mean, for me personally, I’ve always mixed my longbow build with survival skills, so the reality is that running a 30/0/10/30/0 build already looks appetizing to me, and the tradeoff from not going for signets or for piercing arrows/spotter and eagle eye is sure to be present in certain situations.

Honestly, I need to see it in action to see how avoidable our arrows end up being before I can make an honestly judgement call. I’m assuming there is going to be a certain distance that gets created by Read the Wind where the arrows move so quickly that they are near impossible to react to and dodge, and I want to see how far out the “difficult to dodge/avoid” range gets extended by the range before I make my own, personal final judgement call. If that makes sense.

Awesome to see some GW1 vets are still around though! and yeah, I have leveled and geared out every class except an elementalist at this point lol.

jcbroe.4329:

HOWEVER, survival of the fittest is great, and creates a lot of build diversity within builds that aren’t spirits/traps/active spirits, like power builds that previously took Empathic Bond for cleansing, and of course our Beastmaster based builds that now don’t have to kill that pet they are empowering with Empathic Bond.

Not sure about that. It looks hard to take enough damage or enough toughness if you go 30 points into NM.

Vox Hollow.2736:

Read the Wind is going to be quite decent when combined with Eagle Eye. Min/Max’ers are going to complain about not being able to maximize damage and long distance accuracy, but it allows longbow users to obtain a niche role not currently present in the game, especially at the 1500 range distance.

Eh, let’s not go crazy here.
1200 versus 1500 is, in all honesty, a pretty trivial distance. It’s the distance of a single dodge, to put things into perspective. It’s nice and all, but I can’t imagine what role actually exists in that small space. Is there a wall somewhere you can stand on top of where it’s possible to hit something vitally important 1400 units away?

The thing is though is it is about 1800 range when fired manually. It gives a huge head start in any fight when fighting another ranged class. When specced fairly glassy I have had the rare fight where I don’t get hit. Superior range + my knockdown +pet knockdown when he gets there = win

Vox Hollow.2736:

Read the Wind is going to be quite decent when combined with Eagle Eye. Min/Max’ers are going to complain about not being able to maximize damage and long distance accuracy, but it allows longbow users to obtain a niche role not currently present in the game, especially at the 1500 range distance.

Eh, let’s not go crazy here.
1200 versus 1500 is, in all honesty, a pretty trivial distance. It’s the distance of a single dodge, to put things into perspective. It’s nice and all, but I can’t imagine what role actually exists in that small space. Is there a wall somewhere you can stand on top of where it’s possible to hit something vitally important 1400 units away?

From what I recall, isn’t the “actual” range with Eagle Eye somewhere around 1800 range? I’m talking the distance that you can still hit a target out to the point where you finally get an “out of range” indicator, on a level surface.

The 300 range isn’t that valuable, you’re right. But the 600 potential range beyond every other classes reach except the mesmer greatsword autoattack seems like a pretty decent advantage to me.

I would love to see an in-depth thread of somebody actually evaluating Eagle Eye though. I mean, with all of the number crunchers that have come through our community, I’m surprised we never took the time to establish some solid figures on the actual range provided by Eagle Eye and then weighed that range plus the 5% damage against Spotter and Piercing Arrows to determine its overall “slot” value.

Sadly, that’s a discussion for a different thread entirely.

Sube Dai.8496:

jcbroe.4329:

HOWEVER, survival of the fittest is great, and creates a lot of build diversity within builds that aren’t spirits/traps/active spirits, like power builds that previously took Empathic Bond for cleansing, and of course our Beastmaster based builds that now don’t have to kill that pet they are empowering with Empathic Bond.

Not sure about that. It looks hard to take enough damage or enough toughness if you go 30 points into NM.

Honestly, it will be largely dependent on the fury duration, but you’re right, it isn’t a certainty for sure. However, the gearing options do exist where, if the build can obtain enough fury uptime, that some precision can be sacrificed to stack more power/crit damage, while still maintaining enough armor/health.

I’ll be playing with numbers A LOT when the patch drops to see if I can’t theorycraft up a working build around the idea though. Especially if there’s some particularly nice runes that add some synergy to a build like this.

jcbroe.4329:

MAN I miss interrupt builds lol. I’m sad to see that I will probably never get to play an interrupt ranger in Guild Wars 2 and feel that same sense of excitement and involvement as landing Distracting Shot on a Word of Healing, but I’m super excited that Mesmers are on their way to being able to perform like a Guild Wars 1 Domination mesmer (pBlock being my favorite mesmer build ever).

But yeah, I can definitely see the dispute over how useful Read the Wind is going to be lol. I mean, for me personally, I’ve always mixed my longbow build with survival skills, so the reality is that running a 30/0/10/30/0 build already looks appetizing to me, and the tradeoff from not going for signets or for piercing arrows/spotter and eagle eye is sure to be present in certain situations.

Honestly, I need to see it in action to see how avoidable our arrows end up being before I can make an honestly judgement call. I’m assuming there is going to be a certain distance that gets created by Read the Wind where the arrows move so quickly that they are near impossible to react to and dodge, and I want to see how far out the “difficult to dodge/avoid” range gets extended by the range before I make my own, personal final judgement call. If that makes sense.

Awesome to see some GW1 vets are still around though! and yeah, I have leveled and geared out every class except an elementalist at this point lol.

See the only reason I dont find Read The Wind worth it is because of LB’s slow rate of fire. Im hoping that: http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Superior_Sigil_of_Rage gets rework, since feature patch will be clean ups of runes and sigil. If ANet happens to give us access to faster firing rate or access to quickness through sigil or trait rework, then I’ll definitely look into Read The Wind. My guess is ANet wants Eagle Eye and Read The Wind to be equipped together when you spec into Marksmanship like you said or suggesting. But I just wish they do something with piercing arrows and merge it with something or provide us a better trait in major or adept. They said that this is high level balanced in feature patch, so meaning they started with GM traits for everyone maybe they’ll be working on major traits and adept traits as well. But who knows, hope they do though because most of these GM traits for all classes do not make sense except for some obvious ones.

Yeah GW1 Ranger here!!! I play Alliance Battle Melandru’s Arrow build, Strike as One Spear build, and Heroes Ascent Magebane Ranger or Punishing Shot build. I totally feel your pain dshot Ranger lol.

Silly question, but, what’s the big deal about piercing arrows? I ask from a WvW point of view. I have never used it because it doesn’t add any help to what I am trying to accomplish.

Kolisch.4691:

Why is it that when I read the new traits and changes for other classes I go “drooolll…” and when I look at Rangers, I go “it’s OK, we’re used to this” (I has a sad.jpg)

Dunno, I just went through all of them and the best I got was, “Yeah, I suppose I could use that in certain circumstances, none of my current characters, but sure.” None of them seemed particularly droolworthy, and it also appears that the actual players of those classes would agree. There are a handful of nice traits, most of them are in the wrong line, though.

Forzani.2584:

Silly question, but, what’s the big deal about piercing arrows? I ask from a WvW point of view. I have never used it because it doesn’t add any help to what I am trying to accomplish.

Depends on what you’re trying to accomplish. If you’re trying to kill one guy piercing arrows isn’t doing you any good. If you’re trying to hit as absolutely as many guys as you possibly can at any given moment you need that slotted.

Forzani.2584:

Silly question, but, what’s the big deal about piercing arrows? I ask from a WvW point of view. I have never used it because it doesn’t add any help to what I am trying to accomplish.

Its one of the few forms of AOE available to Rangers. Not as good as say grenades, but best we’ve got after traps.

So for camp flipping and Zergs its quite valuable.

How much condition removal would you actually need?

I’ve only ever used EB+SoR+Melandru+Lemongrass so I don’t know how much I would need given active removal.

Would you still need to run Melandru+Lemongrass with it?

Sube Dai.8496:

Forzani.2584:

Silly question, but, what’s the big deal about piercing arrows? I ask from a WvW point of view. I have never used it because it doesn’t add any help to what I am trying to accomplish.

Its one of the few forms of AOE available to Rangers. Not as good as say grenades, but best we’ve got after traps.

So for camp flipping and Zergs its quite valuable.

Understood. When I take camps I change pets from Spider/Dog to Drakes. Why not remove Eagles eye and switch to pierce arrows for the camp?

I’m sure it helps get more bags in zergs, but bags don’t motivate me all that much.

It’s true, Longbow’s got a bug that works in our favor.
Longbow’s about 1560-ish by my measure. That is to say, you can get to the range indicator and not only dodge backward, but you can also go roughly half the radius of an untraited trap. With Eagle Eye it’s at least 1920-ish. If you attack from higher on the z-axis you can break 2000-ish and start to have mobs auto-regen on you, because all non-hitscan projectiles are seemingly physics based.

And being completely honest I’ve never found that so useful I thought it was niche carving and role defining. Not even perching on top of a wall in WubWub. Probably why the bug is still around after all this time >.>;

“Not worth to use” and “Why is it a trait at all, and even GM?!?!” is different.
Giving us a bag of nothing isn’t a kind act. Its called Trolling…

I’m annoyed of this range bug too, really awkward. Usualy I can’t take any advantage of it, just the keep wall disadvantages. Even if I clearly see the target being hit, or just shooting under it for gods knows why…

The bug mentioned about Longbow’s range is nice if you get the piercing shots trait because the leftover travel time for the arrow can hit that many more people. The downfall is auto attack only works up to the official max range and not the theoretical max range of the weapon, so you’ll need to continue to press 1.

I’m not sure I agree with the above conversation about the overall worth of these traits though. While some of them are useful in some niche role when looked at individually, their placement in their respective trees is questionable at best.

For example, I can’t imagine ever taking the poison trait in any scenarion ever. It’s the equivilent of 1 extra bleed stack per tick. But to sacrifice empathic bond for this? Absolutely no chance it would ever be taken under any circumstance.

The Nature Magic trait is actually pretty good, but it’s in an awkward place. For starters, it’s another 30 point trait for condi removal which is antithesis to the class as a whole. But it’s also pretty random in the tree it’s in because there isn’t a single other trait to support it in the entire line. Worse still, the spirit and shout traits already in the line kind of need the 30pt traits too to make the prior traits useful. This trait is just completely out of place here.

For me, the only trait that has any real merrit is the BM trait, but it really depends on how much it’s capable of healing.

And as I’ve said before, the fact that these traits really didn’t change the overall playstyle of the class is especially distressing. All they did is reinforce builds we already use on a regular basis. We still have 0 options for a power build.

They missed the mark imo.

Yep I’m liking the nature magic one… may be the excuse I need to dump empathic bond and move my points over to nature.

Helps that I already use 2 survival skills. I’d still like to see lightning reflexes clear entangle but this may be their way of giving us that.

Vox Hollow.2736:

Eh, let’s not go crazy here.
1200 versus 1500 is, in all honesty, a pretty trivial distance. It’s the distance of a single dodge, to put things into perspective. It’s nice and all, but I can’t imagine what role actually exists in that small space. Is there a wall somewhere you can stand on top of where it’s possible to hit something vitally important 1400 units away?

I sometimes run with spotter instead of eagle eye (while grouped) and I notice it a lot. It really does hurt when I’m getting spammed “out of range” on stuff I know I can normally hit, and it happens a lot. I think some of it is due to lag too, and the server projecting a different location/range to target; my thought is eagle eye helps reduce that effect quite a bit. However “read the wind” may help significantly here too.

Keep in mind we are talking two different tiers of skills too, eagle eye is only master level.

What’s nice about Survival of the Fittest, for power builds, is the fact that they are placed in the Nature Magic line.

I already use Survival skills on my power builds personally, because I don’t like investing everything into signets as that particular build feels much too “one trick pony” or “burn my cooldowns and hope what I’m attacking dies” to me.

So now, instead of power builds going for Empathic Bond if they want cleansing outside of SoR (I would think you would), you can actually spec for a traitline the benefits both the damage and survival of a power build, instead of having 300 points of condition damage that rarely ever gets utilized, if at all, in a power build.

But with Nature Magic, you can go with Strength of Spirit, 2-Handed Training if you use Greatsword, or Nature’s Protection to help defend against your typical instagib builds like thieves run, or even Nature’s Bounty for some more regen from Healing Spring if that’s what you’re running. Not to mention that the fury gained from Survival of the Fittest could potentially be a decent duration, coupled with other boons we can gain, and Bountiful Hunter, there is the potential to have a near constant increase of 5% damage output, especially with the new runesets that could allow us to maintain fury, or some other boon.

With the traits mentioned, that’s a 5% increase, which can be combined with 5% on the greatsword, and 5% on Eagle Eye if you build into Marksmanship and take it, plus vulnerability, not to mention 3k more health and 30% more boon duration.

Sure, Signets are going to definitely remain the burst option, but a more sustained damage build like this definitely has it’s place, and may offer our power builds a much, much better skirmishing capability than what they currently have.

Also, the ability to switch builds on the fly means you can keep your power build gear, but switch between Signets and Survival on the fly based on the role you are about to enter, like if you are in WvW and were roaming or being part of a small group but decide to jump into a zerg or defend a tower really quickly.

sigh

I think that some people are just looking at the new traits (not just rangers, the whole community) from the wrong perspective. The traits weren’t introduced to replace current build options or be better than the core traits. They were introduced to make certain combinations or builds that didn’t previously exist more viable.

We have a choice of condition removal now, and it’s actually a pretty decent option, as survival skills lend themselves to most builds in some way. We have a choice of grandmaster traits in Marksmanship now that isn’t just “Signets or make Opening Strikes worthwhile.” Heck, even the Beastmaster “bunker” might make a comeback, but instead of having scary damage output, they could be one of the most annoying builds to try to kill in the game.

Truthfully though, getting worked up or arguing about anything isn’t worthwhile until we know a few more things:

• Seeing firsthand the effect the Read the Wind has on arrows. Not only will they miss less due to range complications, but there is a chance that with the movement speed increase, the arrows become very difficult to react to because of the reduced flight time. Or, it could have a very minimal effect outside of long ranges and not be as worth taking as more damage increasing combinations.

• Witnessing first hand how valuable Poison Master could potentially be. Sure, we can do the math to see how much damage gets added to the poison, but what that doesn’t necessarily account for is the effect it lets us have against all of the passive healing in the game, since increased DoT obviously helps surpress Healing over Time on top of the 33% decrease in healing effectiveness. Does it help against classes that can regen stack or have passive healing by making our condition builds potent enough that fights no longer end up being endless tanky vs tanky fights. Or is it truly weak and not worthwhile to slot?

• Survival of the Fittest. Short and sweet on this one, what is the duration of the fury provided by the skill.

• Invigorating Bond. How much does it heal for, and are F2s really completely on demand now?

Jcbroe i think thats what anet intends to do with survival of the fittest. I forgot they provide fury per survival skill use which really compliment 5% increase dmg on GM. I nade a pvp build for the changes. 0-30-10-30-0. Skirmishing: moment of clarity, quick draw, might on crit for pet. Wilderness knowledge. Nature Magic: bonus attack dmg on vitality, that dodge cleanse skill for necros for sure, and new GM trait. Pet would be my fav of all leopard. Utility survival of course lightning reflex, muddy terrain and quickness.

See what i want anet to change is superior rune of fury. Imagine that. With our fury on survival skills that would synergize it well if they rework it. If not then Id take ogre runes.

Jcbroe makes a good argument and it could be interesting to see how it plays out. Plus we can finally use SotBM + Enlargement which was ANet’s goal all along :/

Overall though, I’m not sure it will have a large impact on a powerbuild, which is the only interest I have in this class. We’ll see though. It would at least allow for a more engaging playstyle as 30/30/10 builds with signets is quite boring to play. 30/0/10/30/0 or 30/10/0/30/0 build with all survival skills will be quite a difference.

50% damage is meaningless for poison and thus for one reason wich is that poison does not stack! 50% damage bonus to a 200 damage dot… Seriously?

dealing 300 damage instead of 200 with a single dot wich cant be stacked is somewhat useless

You know what?
Big secret :
If we do not use those brand-new grandmaster, they will be buffed…
If we somewhat use them, they will stay the same
If we all go for the same, it will be nerfed…

They are using hard data to measure whether something is good or bad, and they will only balance what is always/never taken…

Don’t like the new GM? Don’t use them!
Nothing is forcing anyone to go, unlock them, and choose them as traits…

I think a lot of people overestimate Survival of the Fittest, and think you’ll still be able to get by without Empathetic Bond

Unless you’re planning on running Anti Condition runes, in which case you’re going to be running Signet of the Hunt most likely, you’re really going to only have room for Lightning Reflex (Since SoR will take your last spot) ..which means you’re trading 3 conditions removed every 10 seconds for 2 conditions removed every 32 seconds.

You can never have to much condition removal in this game.

I’m kind of disturbed that Read the wind has so much competition from our master level traits. You know a tree has weak GM traits when they have to compete with master level traits.

Terravos.4059:

I think a lot of people overestimate Survival of the Fittest, and think you’ll still be able to get by without Empathetic Bond

Unless you’re planning on running Anti Condition runes, in which case you’re going to be running Signet of the Hunt most likely, you’re really going to only have room for Lightning Reflex (Since SoR will take your last spot) ..which means you’re trading 3 conditions removed every 10 seconds for 2 conditions removed every 32 seconds.

You can never have to much condition removal in this game.

True. But I was thinking more along the lines of Muddy Terrain, Lightning Reflexes, and either Signet of the Hunt with the new iteration of the cleansing sigil on the weapon, or a Movement Speed increasing Rune with SoR. Combine that with Healing Spring and rangers still have some of the highest access to condition removal in the game.

I’m not saying I disagree with you though, Empathic Bond is still a better cleanse, plain and simple. But the draw to Survival of the Fittest shouldn’t just be the cleansing, unless the fury duration isn’t good, which would immediately change the entire value of the trait imo and make it not nearly as desirable.

The real trick is going to be combining Empathic Bond with Survival of the Fittest, which I’m not sure whether or not it has been mentioned in this thread or not. A 10/0/30/30/0 build should be just about the most difficult build to kill with conditions outside of an Engineer who knows how to abuse Automated Response.

Terravos.4059:

I think a lot of people overestimate Survival of the Fittest, and think you’ll still be able to get by without Empathetic Bond

Unless you’re planning on running Anti Condition runes, in which case you’re going to be running Signet of the Hunt most likely, you’re really going to only have room for Lightning Reflex (Since SoR will take your last spot) ..which means you’re trading 3 conditions removed every 10 seconds for 2 conditions removed every 32 seconds.

You can never have to much condition removal in this game.

most likely people who will be running Survival of the fittest (me and jcbroe for sure) will be running Lreflex and muddy terrain (must). Last slot is optional depending on your play style. This is me talking about PVP game play. Possibly WvW as well if you’re going to roam with the build, rather try to roam with the build and survive encounters.

I think people underestimate the trait, look at it in a different side, EB is every 10 seconds for 3 conditions, which you don’t have any control of cause you don’t know when will that cleanse go off cause it has no indicator saying “condi cleanse in…3..2…1..” in your UI. Compare to Survival, 2 conditions when you want on the spot. Traited Muddy terrain is 20s CD, Lreflex is 32s CD. For another insta cleanse and another stun break you can put SoR in there as well. Or if you really want to go “kill or be killed” put it quickening zephyr in there. (my style and i can speak for jcbroe probably his as well)

Survival trait, IMO promotes strategy, when will you use your skills to get rid of conditions that needs to be cleansed and will you be able to finish the fight off when you blow your skills. The good thing about it as well is it gives you that fury, which is really intended for that power play.

EB is a hard trade off for sure (for those considering to get EB off) cause its a passive condi cleanse which everyone adapted to use in their build cause you don’t need to worry about anything, you just wait for that 10s or pop that SoR or HS.

Different game plays for sure for different players which is good, we will be seeing Ranger players walk different paths.

I used to run EB heavily, but in the past few months my WvW builds have frequently included Bark Skin (blasphemy!), and oftentimes have no GM traits at all.

Maybe after the pet responsiveness F2 update, more people will try a bit harder to keep their pets alive.

jcbroe.4329:

The real trick is going to be combining Empathic Bond with Survival of the Fittest, which I’m not sure whether or not it has been mentioned in this thread or not. A 10/0/30/30/0 build should be just about the most difficult build to kill with conditions outside of an Engineer who knows how to abuse Automated Response.

The question would be: Why would you do this? The only point would be when bunkering in PvP. But you will probably lack Stability so people can push you off of the cap point. On the other hand, LB+Muddy Terrain basically mimics decap Engis which could be pretty nice.

I personally really look forward to using Survival of the Fittest although I’m quite sure I won’t combine it with EB. But there is one thing which really bothers me. For me, it feels like Survival of the Fittest and EB should switch traitlines.

Xaylin.1860:

jcbroe.4329:

The real trick is going to be combining Empathic Bond with Survival of the Fittest, which I’m not sure whether or not it has been mentioned in this thread or not. A 10/0/30/30/0 build should be just about the most difficult build to kill with conditions outside of an Engineer who knows how to abuse Automated Response.

The question would be: Why would you do this? The only point would be when bunkering in PvP. But you will probably lack Stability so people can push you off of the cap point. On the other hand, LB+Muddy Terrain basically mimics decap Engis which could be pretty nice.

I personally really look forward to using Survival of the Fittest although I’m quite sure I won’t combine it with EB. But there is one thing which really bothers me. For me, it feels like Survival of the Fittest and EB should switch traitlines.

Pretty much just for counter comp’ing in PvP, though right now most classes meta builds aren’t very heavy condition based.

So right now it would actually have more to do with the WvW roaming scene than anything else, with perplexity runes on every class and the dual sword warriors, clone death mesmers, confusion engis, etc.

Not that the build would be any use anywhere outside of roaming, and not even that great at taking camps compared to our other specs, so really, just to counter other players in WvW. Also, there are always those duelists and fight club style players that would certainly appreciate a build that might finally be able to deal with a PU clone death build in that environment.

I’m not arguing for the builds viability though, I’m just saying, it certainly has the condition removal capabilities if you choose to go that route lol.

Basicly we shouldn’t even use GM traits for balanced builds…
Its for those who want to be really good ad something – in sacrifice of else.

EB is useless in bus, given that the pet is almost always dead; I was also running bark skin, and was relying on Melandru Runes and allies to manage conditions.
Going in that line means an almost 50% uptime warhorn boost, and the 7% vita to power – which I couldn’t fit in my previous build.

I understand why they didn’t put it in EB (toughness/condition line). It makes sense to me for it to be in boons duration line.
And, though it’s not really the case here, I find it nice that they mix attack/defense in different lines…
As stated elsewhere, noone forces anyone to take the new traits / unlock them / change their builds…

Jocksy.3415:

EB is useless in bus, given that the pet is almost always dead; I was also running bark skin, and was relying on Melandru Runes and allies to manage conditions.
Going in that line means an almost 50% uptime warhorn boost, and the 7% vita to power – which I couldn’t fit in my previous build.

I understand why they didn’t put it in EB (toughness/condition line). It makes sense to me for it to be in boons duration line.
And, though it’s not really the case here, I find it nice that they mix attack/defense in different lines…
As stated elsewhere, noone forces anyone to take the new traits / unlock them / change their builds…

Also theres no point in putting it in WS tree again, where is build diversity in that when you put 2 condi cleanse trait in 1 line. NS is right as it gives you that extra health for survivability and the line compliments power build.

It’s too deep to compliment power builds in NS imo. If it were a 20pt trait it would compliment them better. I wish it were in Skirmishing to be honest.

People go skirmishing for traps and that’s about it. Moment of Clarity is a strong trait, but the chances to maximize it are limited. A shame we don’t have a fast hands trait as that would certainly make moment of clarity more valuable.

Skirmishing is where I wish they would have put it.

Do we know if these are the only changes we’re getting or are there more to come? If this is it, I’m disappointed.

Don’t forget that the healing is AE and the ranger doesn’t need to be by the bird or pet.
It is all about the value, but it really could be useful especially helping someone in a close fight by sending in the birds so to speak.

Lobo.1296:

Do we know if these are the only changes we’re getting or are there more to come? If this is it, I’m disappointed.

if you rewatch the ready up stream on youtube or twitch, whatever you prefer, you can see at the bottom of each slide it says high level balance, they started with GM traits for all classes, there are still more to come for each tier of traits for all class. Thats a big hint already.

high level balance
Does not mean balance from the ground up, just, balance on a high level, which, in this instance is GM level…

more to be waited from
- bug fixes
entries than unannounced (in the sense of “unspoken of”) change in traits…

Jocksy.3415:

high level balance
Does not mean balance from the ground up, just, balance on a high level, which, in this instance is GM level…

more to be waited from
- bug fixes
entries than unannounced (in the sense of “unspoken of”) change in traits…

if you’re convinced that way then sure. i get that some people dont like being disappointed so just ignore what i said.

Jocksy.3415:

EB is useless in bus, given that the pet is almost always dead; I was also running bark skin, and was relying on Melandru Runes and allies to manage conditions.
Going in that line means an almost 50% uptime warhorn boost, and the 7% vita to power – which I couldn’t fit in my previous build.

I understand why they didn’t put it in EB (toughness/condition line). It makes sense to me for it to be in boons duration line.
And, though it’s not really the case here, I find it nice that they mix attack/defense in different lines…
As stated elsewhere, noone forces anyone to take the new traits / unlock them / change their builds…

EB is bugged and still removes conditions when the pet is dead. It has always been that way, but is getting fixed apparently.

Remember also that running EB allows you the utilities of your choice. The nm trait means you must take two survival skills, so its no use to a signet build.