Guild Wars 2

So I was bored since my computer is in the repair shop, again, and I was skimming through all the class forums and it seems that out all of them Ranger have the most threads about players complaining about their class. Sure there are 1 or 2 threads in each forum complaining about their class, but Rangers exceed that by having almost the entire front page of complaining threads.

There’s either on of two problems here:
1. The ranger community has a whole doesn’t know how to play and complain too much.

2. ANet poorly designed this class since every other class seems to be content with how their class is running.

Now what I think it is, a little bit of 1, mostly people complaining about pets being broken (except Fractals I agree they are broken there) and how they don’t compare to warriors or thieves in damage (no kitten Sherlock). However, I think it is more of 2 because there is a general consensus on this forum that isn’t seen on any other forum that the class needs some major work. Mind you that the same player population that is playing ranger could also be the same population playing the other professions as alts and there is no complaining there.

So I invite everyone who usually defends the class and argues that there is no problem at all L2P to browse through the other forums and see how a functioning class’ forum looks like, and then share your thoughts with me.

Note: I love playing this class, been playing it since BWE1 and I think I have a fairly good handle on it since I do tons of dungeons. However, I think it needs some minor tweaks that will improve the class tremendously that ANet seems scared to make.

Same old story, expect the same old posts. People saying Rangers are fine and dandy as they still don’t understand that the real problems are all in PvP and not PvE, people saying they kill lots of other players in WvW (where you’re up against weaker players), people saying they rock in sPvP just to boast on the forums.

Lots of classes have issues, Rangers are the only class with broken core mechanics in PvP (damage from pets and projectiles not functioning as intended). The class doesn’t need minor tweaks, it needs urgent fixing. In PvE it needs minor tweaks like any other class (some non-sensical or useless traits, pets dying too easily in dungeons).

Great, the other classes are easier to pick up and play. Ranger’s have a deceptively high skill cap in the sense that you need to pay attention to two healthbars, something that most of complaining population refuses to do.

The only complaints I really view as valid are spirits going pop way to quickly (few counters), and pets being broken in fractals and Jade Maw (no counters).

Every other complaint on this forum I have found a counter too. Which means yes its a l2p issue. Its just that most vocal rangers have refused to l2p and demand the class gets dumbed down to pew pewing arrows.

Daemon.4295:

Same old story, expect the same old posts. People saying Rangers are fine and dandy as they still don’t understand that the real problems are all in PvP and not PvE, people saying they kill lots of other players in WvW (where you’re up against weaker players), people saying they rock in sPvP just to boast on the forums.

Lots of classes have issues, Rangers are the only class with broken core mechanics in PvP (damage from pets and projectiles not functioning as intended). The class doesn’t need minor tweaks, it needs urgent fixing. In PvE it needs minor tweaks like any other class (some non-sensical or useless traits, pets dying too easily in dungeons).

Completely agree, and I think the people who are trying to defend the class are actually hindering it’s ability to progress because ANet will see them and think that the class is doing alright.

DaisyRogers.6837:

Great, the other classes are easier to pick up and play. Ranger’s have a deceptively high skill cap in the sense that you need to pay attention to two healthbars, something that most of complaining population refuses to do.

The only complaints I really view as valid are spirits going pop way to quickly (few counters), and pets being broken in fractals and Jade Maw (no counters).

Every other complaint on this forum I have found a counter too. Which means yes its a l2p issue. Its just that most vocal rangers have refused to l2p and demand the class gets dumbed down to pew pewing arrows.

I agree, however there are some major issues that aren’t L2P issue like pets in fractals and spirits. The pet fractals issue is affecting our dungeon experience and is an unfair disadvantage. Spirits are horrible no matter how you play them you are better off bringing something else than those skills that barely do any support. I agree that rangers have a steep learning curve, but there are just too many essential parts that are broken and can’t be overcome by L2P.

And I don’t think the other classes are happier because they are easier to pick up, because classes like mesmer and ele still have a learning curve to work effectively. They are just working as intended with minimal bugs and problems.

Peter.9406:

Completely agree, and I think the people who are trying to defend the class are actually hindering it’s ability to progress because ANet will see them and think that the class is doing alright.

And I think that’s rubbish, I think people that whine and whine and whine as well as those making posts that some of our most powerful assets are totally broken while also spreading lies or misconceptions that “we can’t even 1v1 a support spec class” are the ones that take away attention where it’s REALLY needed.

Like our pet issues (in all aspects of the game) and our mundane traits and signets, to name just two of our many issues.

No one has said we don’t have issues, but it’s getting tiring to read posts from people that claim to know all there is to know about rangers and yet they haven’t worked out we have an “about face” button while they whine we’re broken because you have to turn the camera 180 degrees and it’s “hard”.

Guys, aside from the silly lack of agony resistance in fractals, pets dying in dungeons is NOT THAT BIG A DEAL! If you’re having trouble micromanaging them with F1 and F3 just put them on defensive mode and use them for buffing, you’ll contribute to your group just fine. People continuously bringing this up detracts attention from the Ranger’s major issues, which are pets and arrows not connecting with their targets in PvP.

This “silly” lack of AR is causing us to lose half our damage and utilities, other dungeons aren’t a problem if you micromanage however in fractals that doesn’t work. I don’t PvP much but I don’t see how they can fix pets, you would just have to learn to snare your target so they can keep up. The arrows however can be a problem.

Daemon.4295:

Guys, aside from the silly lack of agony resistance in fractals, pets dying in dungeons is NOT THAT BIG A DEAL! If you’re having trouble micromanaging them with F1 and F3 just put them on defensive mode and use them for buffing, you’ll contribute to your group just fine. People continuously bringing this up detracts attention from the Ranger’s major issues, which are pets and arrows not connecting with their targets in PvP.

Personally I think both of those points are issues, one which will effect one type of person more than another depending on what they play more.

If you put your pet away though, you ARE bringing down your DPS, even if you’re not BM spec (which lets face it, is pointless using in high level fractals because your pet just isn’t used much).

capuchinseven.8395:

If you put your pet away though, you ARE bringing down your DPS, even if you’re not BM spec (which lets face it, is pointless using in high level fractals because your pet just isn’t used much).

Yeah because they are dead due to agony, if they gave them AR then they would be used more

capuchinseven.8395:

Daemon.4295:

Guys, aside from the silly lack of agony resistance in fractals, pets dying in dungeons is NOT THAT BIG A DEAL! If you’re having trouble micromanaging them with F1 and F3 just put them on defensive mode and use them for buffing, you’ll contribute to your group just fine. People continuously bringing this up detracts attention from the Ranger’s major issues, which are pets and arrows not connecting with their targets in PvP.

Personally I think both of those points are issues, one which will effect one type of person more than another depending on what they play more.

If you put your pet away though, you ARE bringing down your DPS, even if you’re not BM spec (which lets face it, is pointless using in high level fractals because your pet just isn’t used much).

Yes, but the difference is that while you can perfectly well do a dungeon with lower DPS (basically it’s more or less like taking a lvl 75 character into a 5 man dungeon instead of a lvl 80 character), you have serious problems facing other players in PvP. Statistically speaking, the final outcome of a dungeon run is not affected anywhere near as much as the final outcome of an sPvP match.

Daemon.4295:

capuchinseven.8395:

Daemon.4295:

Guys, aside from the silly lack of agony resistance in fractals, pets dying in dungeons is NOT THAT BIG A DEAL! If you’re having trouble micromanaging them with F1 and F3 just put them on defensive mode and use them for buffing, you’ll contribute to your group just fine. People continuously bringing this up detracts attention from the Ranger’s major issues, which are pets and arrows not connecting with their targets in PvP.

Personally I think both of those points are issues, one which will effect one type of person more than another depending on what they play more.

If you put your pet away though, you ARE bringing down your DPS, even if you’re not BM spec (which lets face it, is pointless using in high level fractals because your pet just isn’t used much).

Yes, but the difference is that while you can perfectly well do a dungeon with lower DPS (basically it’s more or less like taking a lvl 75 character into a 5 man dungeon instead of a lvl 80 character), you have serious problems facing other players in PvP. Statistically speaking, the final outcome of a dungeon run is not affected anywhere near as much as the final outcome of an sPvP match.

Yeah, for me PVP issues are more important but that doesn’t mean that I don’t understand issues for players that are more focused on PVE.

Daemon.4295:

capuchinseven.8395:

Daemon.4295:

Guys, aside from the silly lack of agony resistance in fractals, pets dying in dungeons is NOT THAT BIG A DEAL! If you’re having trouble micromanaging them with F1 and F3 just put them on defensive mode and use them for buffing, you’ll contribute to your group just fine. People continuously bringing this up detracts attention from the Ranger’s major issues, which are pets and arrows not connecting with their targets in PvP.

Personally I think both of those points are issues, one which will effect one type of person more than another depending on what they play more.

If you put your pet away though, you ARE bringing down your DPS, even if you’re not BM spec (which lets face it, is pointless using in high level fractals because your pet just isn’t used much).

Yes, but the difference is that while you can perfectly well do a dungeon with lower DPS (basically it’s more or less like taking a lvl 75 character into a 5 man dungeon instead of a lvl 80 character), you have serious problems facing other players in PvP. Statistically speaking, the final outcome of a dungeon run is not affected anywhere near as much as the final outcome of an sPvP match.

This is true, however it is still an issue because the ranger shouldn’t be the dead weight in the team because ANet’s faulty design. And if you can’t contribute to a team, then a team won’t pick you up. So, in actuality this is more of a problem because this problem can be the deciding factor in if the team will pick you up or not which is the determinate if you can even enter the dungeon. You can still enter PvP with your problems and still get kills and cap points, so by your argument there is no difference.

They are both problems of importance that have to be addressed.

I’m pretty sure, ranger’s pet must share all his boons and special things (like Agony resist) in the anyway without any traits, signets, etc...

Maybe, some experienced ranger will create a thread about suggestions to fix Ranger and will add this suggestion too.

capuchinseven.8395:

Daemon.4295:

capuchinseven.8395:

Daemon.4295:

Guys, aside from the silly lack of agony resistance in fractals, pets dying in dungeons is NOT THAT BIG A DEAL! If you’re having trouble micromanaging them with F1 and F3 just put them on defensive mode and use them for buffing, you’ll contribute to your group just fine. People continuously bringing this up detracts attention from the Ranger’s major issues, which are pets and arrows not connecting with their targets in PvP.

Personally I think both of those points are issues, one which will effect one type of person more than another depending on what they play more.

If you put your pet away though, you ARE bringing down your DPS, even if you’re not BM spec (which lets face it, is pointless using in high level fractals because your pet just isn’t used much).

Yes, but the difference is that while you can perfectly well do a dungeon with lower DPS (basically it’s more or less like taking a lvl 75 character into a 5 man dungeon instead of a lvl 80 character), you have serious problems facing other players in PvP. Statistically speaking, the final outcome of a dungeon run is not affected anywhere near as much as the final outcome of an sPvP match.

Yeah, for me PVP issues are more important but that doesn’t mean that I don’t understand issues for players that are more focused on PVE.

Of course, you’re right, but I think our PvE issues are pretty much on par with those experienced by other classes, while in PvP we definitely got the short end of the stick. I actually do far far more PvE than sPvP or WvW, I’d say in the past month I’ve spent well over 80% of my time in dungeons, fractals, and general PvE, if not 90%. PvE issues affect me more day to day, but I realize that the PvP problems are more urgent and should take priority in the devs’ backlog of necessary fixes.

imho it’s same problem like with hunters in WOW. People are used to play faceroll classes then come to class which require longer learning and they give up after a while. You didn’t see many very good hunters in WOW, but when u met one you evaded him for the rest of the match.

Sure rangers here have some minor problems, but all other classes do.

Daemon.4295:

capuchinseven.8395:

Daemon.4295:

capuchinseven.8395:

Daemon.4295:

Guys, aside from the silly lack of agony resistance in fractals, pets dying in dungeons is NOT THAT BIG A DEAL! If you’re having trouble micromanaging them with F1 and F3 just put them on defensive mode and use them for buffing, you’ll contribute to your group just fine. People continuously bringing this up detracts attention from the Ranger’s major issues, which are pets and arrows not connecting with their targets in PvP.

Personally I think both of those points are issues, one which will effect one type of person more than another depending on what they play more.

If you put your pet away though, you ARE bringing down your DPS, even if you’re not BM spec (which lets face it, is pointless using in high level fractals because your pet just isn’t used much).

Yes, but the difference is that while you can perfectly well do a dungeon with lower DPS (basically it’s more or less like taking a lvl 75 character into a 5 man dungeon instead of a lvl 80 character), you have serious problems facing other players in PvP. Statistically speaking, the final outcome of a dungeon run is not affected anywhere near as much as the final outcome of an sPvP match.

Yeah, for me PVP issues are more important but that doesn’t mean that I don’t understand issues for players that are more focused on PVE.

Of course, you’re right, but I think our PvE issues are pretty much on par with those experienced by other classes, while in PvP we definitely got the short end of the stick. I actually do far far more PvE than sPvP or WvW, I’d say in the past month I’ve spent well over 80% of my time in dungeons, fractals, and general PvE, if not 90%. PvE issues affect me more day to day, but I realize that the PvP problems are more urgent and should take priority in the devs’ backlog of necessary fixes.

I don’t know of any other class that experiences a 50% or more decrease in damage due to agony in fractals. I mean perhaps ele who run pets or necro who run MM, but they have the choice of switching those skills out so they can overcome it, we can’t.

I don’t think you can really prioritize which problem is more of an issue compared to the other because it is all relative the player. For instance, I hardly ever do an sort of PvP so those problems don’t matter much to me and to the other players who PvE as much as I do. On the other hand, PvP players would see them as major issues while the PvE ones not so much. The only common issue I can see is probably utility skills that are just broken, e.g. spirits. So in any case those should take priority over anything according to your approach.

Dhunis.9072:

imho it’s same problem like with hunters in WOW. People are used to play faceroll classes then come to class which require longer learning and they give up after a while. You didn’t see many very good hunters in WOW, but when u met one you evaded him for the rest of the match.

Sure rangers here have some minor problems, but all other classes do.

Never played WoW so I can’t really understand your reference here. I don’t believe the class should be faceroll capable, and I understand the mechanics of the class really well. However, there are just too many parts of it broken to avoid. You are right that all classes have minor problems, but ranger have problems that are an integral role in the how you play. Like I said go to any other forum and you’ll notice how different it is compared to these forums, much less complaining about things. This is because their problems aren’t as critical as ours.

I have played a lot of MMO’s, and my class of choice has always been the Ranger/Archer class. I have always enjoyed the challenge of being the proverbial “glass cannon”, dealing high damage and being cunning enough to survive.

With Guild Wars 2, I consider the Ranger to be three-faced.

In PvE, I am extremely happy with the Ranger. My pet acts as a tank for the most part, and I was easily able to get to level 80 faster than I was able to do so with any other class. I am not much for dungeons, so I really have not spent enough time there to formulate an educated opinion.

By far the weakest area for my Ranger is in PvP. A testament to this is trying to complete the PvP dailies. I can play 10 PvP matches, and often times I won’t get top stats in any of them. But if I switch to any other class, I get top stats almost every time. I think the problem is that there are too many line-of-sight problems in PvP for my personal style of play. I am used to being a glass cannon, so I have always been adept at using the terrain, while moving and sniping. Since my weapon of choice are the bows, I simply can not do this in PvP because there are just so many angles to deal with. In order for me to do damage, I have to be right on top of my enemies, and this is not conducive to success for me.

I have more luck in WvW, as it has more open spaces. I am able to move around while fighting. WvW is much more suited to my playstyle.

Peter.9406:

DaisyRogers.6837:

Great, the other classes are easier to pick up and play. Ranger’s have a deceptively high skill cap in the sense that you need to pay attention to two healthbars, something that most of complaining population refuses to do.

The only complaints I really view as valid are spirits going pop way to quickly (few counters), and pets being broken in fractals and Jade Maw (no counters).

Every other complaint on this forum I have found a counter too. Which means yes its a l2p issue. Its just that most vocal rangers have refused to l2p and demand the class gets dumbed down to pew pewing arrows.

I agree, however there are some major issues that aren’t L2P issue like pets in fractals and spirits. The pet fractals issue is affecting our dungeon experience and is an unfair disadvantage. Spirits are horrible no matter how you play them you are better off bringing something else than those skills that barely do any support. I agree that rangers have a steep learning curve, but there are just too many essential parts that are broken and can’t be overcome by L2P.

And I don’t think the other classes are happier because they are easier to pick up, because classes like mesmer and ele still have a learning curve to work effectively. They are just working as intended with minimal bugs and problems.

I should re-clarify. Other classes are more straightforward to pick up, they do what you expect them to do. Even Ele and Mesmer are straightforward and doesn’t take long to get it rolling. Rangers cannot until you learn to work with the pet.

You will never see the damage numbers unless you work with the pet; CC with freeze, entangle, cripple whatever to get your pet in range (since fix pets hit pretty reliably once they are in range). You can also kite in a way to force your opponent into the pet. Melee makes it overly simple to max out your damage.

and when you fail to utilize the controls we have for our pet (what seperates us from MM) yes I expect your dps to suffer.

And yes, as I mentioned and you more or less repeated, I agree, we are broken in fractals, and most of our spirits are underwhelming (except stone and Elite) and insanely squishy when we fail to place them in an overly protective place.

Wrenn Haldane.3208:

I have played a lot of MMO’s, and my class of choice has always been the Ranger/Archer class. I have always enjoyed the challenge of being the proverbial “glass cannon”, dealing high damage and being cunning enough to survive.

With Guild Wars 2, I consider the Ranger to be three-faced.

In PvE, I am extremely happy with the Ranger. My pet acts as a tank for the most part, and I was easily able to get to level 80 faster than I was able to do so with any other class. I am not much for dungeons, so I really have not spent enough time there to formulate an educated opinion.

In PvE we do great because honestly PvE is not that hard in this game any class will do great. Go run some higher level dungeons, like Arah, CoF, HotW, and high level Fractals, and you’ll start seeing the problems. While other classes can easily come up with builds we are stuck using signets and traps with the occasional shout here and there. And not to mention in Fractals and higher dungeons our pets just get facerolled by bosses, more in Fractals in other dungeons a lot micromanaging is key, and obliterated by agony.

Wrenn Haldane.3208:

I have played a lot of MMO’s, and my class of choice has always been the Ranger/Archer class. I have always enjoyed the challenge of being the proverbial “glass cannon”, dealing high damage and being cunning enough to survive.

With Guild Wars 2, I consider the Ranger to be three-faced.

In PvE, I am extremely happy with the Ranger. My pet acts as a tank for the most part, and I was easily able to get to level 80 faster than I was able to do so with any other class. I am not much for dungeons, so I really have not spent enough time there to formulate an educated opinion.

By far the weakest area for my Ranger is in PvP. A testament to this is trying to complete the PvP dailies. I can play 10 PvP matches, and often times I won’t get top stats in any of them. But if I switch to any other class, I get top stats almost every time. I think the problem is that there are too many line-of-sight problems in PvP for my personal style of play. I am used to being a glass cannon, so I have always been adept at using the terrain, while moving and sniping. Since my weapon of choice are the bows, I simply can not do this in PvP because there are just so many angles to deal with. In order for me to do damage, I have to be right on top of my enemies, and this is not conducive to success for me.

I have more luck in WvW, as it has more open spaces. I am able to move around while fighting. WvW is much more suited to my playstyle.

Anyone going glasscannon in GW2 is going to have a problem, it tends not to be a good idea unless you’re a thief who get away with it because of faceroll stealth and faceroll distance covering.

At the height of my rage against ArenaNet, I decided to roll a Guardian. Ended up really enjoying it.

Then I made a Rifle Warrior. Really enjoyed that, too! Got both the Warrior AND the Guardian in two full sets of exotics and run dungeons and WvW with them frequently.

What I found for myself, however, is how much I still enjoyed my Ranger. I still see flaws that need to be improved (dodge roll interrupting Sword 1 chain, please; Longbow, enough said) but I’m not as enamored by the other classes anymore. In fact on my Warrior I’m downed more often because I lack the means to escape – unlike my Ranger. On my Guardian I have more uptime but severely lack in crit chance – unlike my Ranger.

Its great to see how the other classes compare and ultimately I love my Ranger the most but still wish to see some improvements to the class…although, not as many as I once believed.

DaisyRogers.6837:

I should re-clarify. Other classes are more straightforward to pick up, they do what you expect them to do. Even Ele and Mesmer are straightforward and doesn’t take long to get it rolling. Rangers cannot until you learn to work with the pet.

You will never see the damage numbers unless you work with the pet; CC with freeze, entangle, cripple whatever to get your pet in range (since fix pets hit pretty reliably once they are in range). You can also kite in a way to force your opponent into the pet. Melee makes it overly simple to max out your damage.

and when you fail to utilize the controls we have for our pet (what seperates us from MM) yes I expect your dps to suffer.

And yes, as I mentioned and you more or less repeated, I agree, we are broken in fractals, and most of our spirits are underwhelming (except stone and Elite) and insanely squishy when we fail to place them in an overly protective place.

Very valid points. First, I’m not complaining about the pet mechanics or damage, aside from in Fractals, at all. I always run with at least 15 in BM because I understand that without BM and proper micromanaging you are not gonna function well. My argument was that no other class has more of their damage curtailed because of agony than rangers, Fractals being the only place where our dps drops because of pets without us having the ability to control it.

In regards to spirits, even when placed securely they have the chance of not affecting everyone in the group because of their aggro bubble. Also, with their inner cooldown and poor survival I don’t think any spirit aside from the elite is worth bringing. Honestly what is the point of having the spirits follow you, that’s just asking for them to get killed quicker. They need buff their survival tremendously so that the traits they made are actually usable and get rid off that inner cooldown timer or reduce it by a lot, at least in PvE so it doesn’t affect PvP like it did in beta. Idk why ANet doesn’t split the spirit skills PvE/PvP like they did in GW1 and some GW2 skills, with beta spirits as PvE and a buffed version of the current spirits as PvP.

yeah, ranger too weak. needs like 2x pet damage increase or somethin’

deepwinter.9015:

At the height of my rage against ArenaNet, I decided to roll a Guardian. Ended up really enjoying it.

Then I made a Rifle Warrior. Really enjoyed that, too! Got both the Warrior AND the Guardian in two full sets of exotics and run dungeons and WvW with them frequently.

What I found for myself, however, is how much I still enjoyed my Ranger. I still see flaws that need to be improved (dodge roll interrupting Sword 1 chain, please; Longbow, enough said) but I’m not as enamored by the other classes anymore. In fact on my Warrior I’m downed more often because I lack the means to escape – unlike my Ranger. On my Guardian I have more uptime but severely lack in crit chance – unlike my Ranger.

Its great to see how the other classes compare and ultimately I love my Ranger the most but still wish to see some improvements to the class…although, not as many as I once believed.

Rangers are great at doing a bit of everything pretty well, I agree they are a great class and fun to play. However, they are in need of crucial changes. I have played with many Warriors and Guardians, most of my guildies play those classes, and excel at what they are meant to do. If you go on both of those profession threads you won’t find many threads on the problems you mentioned because they are not that problematic. Go on the ranger forums and they’ll be countless thread on the problems because they affect game play critically based on a general consensus.

The only changes I think are in need are spirits, pets AR, and then some maybes like increase longbow damage, fix sword root, and lessen signet cooldowns. Honestly, with the exception of the sword root I think these changes can easily be made without affecting the games balance.

Vinhoney.4517:

yeah, ranger too weak. needs like 2x pet damage increase or somethin’

I don’t think that’s the problem, they aren’t meant to be a damage heavy class.

Peter.9406:

So I was bored since my computer is in the repair shop, again, and I was skimming through all the class forums and it seems that out all of them Ranger have the most threads about players complaining about their class. Sure there are 1 or 2 threads in each forum complaining about their class, but Rangers exceed that by having almost the entire front page of complaining threads.

There’s either on of two problems here:
1. The ranger community has a whole doesn’t know how to play and complain too much.

2. ANet poorly designed this class since every other class seems to be content with how their class is running.

Now what I think it is, a little bit of 1, mostly people complaining about pets being broken (except Fractals I agree they are broken there) and how they don’t compare to warriors or thieves in damage (no kitten Sherlock). However, I think it is more of 2 because there is a general consensus on this forum that isn’t seen on any other forum that the class needs some major work. Mind you that the same player population that is playing ranger could also be the same population playing the other professions as alts and there is no complaining there.

So I invite everyone who usually defends the class and argues that there is no problem at all L2P to browse through the other forums and see how a functioning class’ forum looks like, and then share your thoughts with me.

Note: I love playing this class, been playing it since BWE1 and I think I have a fairly good handle on it since I do tons of dungeons. However, I think it needs some minor tweaks that will improve the class tremendously that ANet seems scared to make.

Are you serious ? Everyone other class is content with what they have ? Either joking or trolling.

Peter.9406:

I don’t think you can really prioritize which problem is more of an issue compared to the other because it is all relative the player. For instance, I hardly ever do an sort of PvP so those problems don’t matter much to me and to the other players who PvE as much as I do. On the other hand, PvP players would see them as major issues while the PvE ones not so much. The only common issue I can see is probably utility skills that are just broken, e.g. spirits. So in any case those should take priority over anything according to your approach.

I absolutely think you can prioritize the problems, and here’s why. The broken mechanics in PvP actually affect the outcome of your battles, while the PvE issues at most affect the total time spend to complete a dungeon (marginally, and that’s if you’re a beastmaster that has to pull most of the weight in your group). I personally have never experienced any sort of flak from a dungeon party for being a ranger, and certainly have never seen a group wipe because of a dead pet.

People tend to complain about the issues they live the most of course, but each issue has a different level of gravity so let’s try to be objective. Yes, lack of agony resistance for pets is just silly and needs to be addressed, but I don’t think we can honestly say that the ranger is any worse off in PvE overall than other classes. In PvP, on the other hand, we’re rock bottom with major, game-breaking bugs.

I don’t believe anyone defending Rangers ever said they didn’t have problems, They clearly do….Spirits for example are just frankly a broken mess that needs to be changed.

Some of the pets need a rework in my opinion to make them usable.

Rangers are probably the class that is most worst off in the game right now as well.

However with that said, The Ranger isn’t a horrible class, Nor is it unplayable in any regard.

You can absolutely wreck people 1v1 on a Ranger… You can sorta Zerg Surf with the class…..

Its no on the level that a lot of people are complaining about, Some people just cry constantly that their pet is always dying….My pet doesn’t always die, I can keep him alive fairly often….which makes me believe they’re not managing their pet very well.

Lets face it though, some people will have that trouble, and they honestly should of rolled a Thief or Warrior if they really wanted to use a Bow.

If you play a Ranger, you’re playing the Pet class of the game, you’re going to have to manage that class, If you want to use a Bow, you have 3 Classes to pick from, so decide if you want to deal with a Pet or not.

Peter.9406:

There’s either on of two problems here:
1. The ranger community has a whole doesn’t know how to play and complain too much.

2. ANet poorly designed this class since every other class seems to be content with how their class is running.

Well, if one class forum is filled to the brim with mostly complaints, while other class forums boast about how they own this and that, you can’t simply play the “L2P-card” – something is clearly broken with the class, and needs urgent attention – now.

The small babysteps Anet are taking every third month or so won’t cut it anymore. So far, since release, rangers haven’t really seen anything significant enough to be worth mentioning, with the exception of pet rez underwater, which wasn’t even asked for in the first place.

You may see stuff you would consider buffs in the patchnotes, but only if you read them as someone who have never ever really played this class to its full potential. Almost all of our so called buffs are crappy stuff we never asked for in the first place, OR, they are general buffs that apply to all classes.

In a duel earlier today vs a an ele in wvw, I noticed my pet land maybe one or two attacks in a fight that lasted for a good 3 minutes, maybe more.

Pets are our downfall, and they’re the reason we fall short in this game. Don’t get me wrong now, I started to play the ranger because of the pets, but seriously, they need major work, and we need it now, not in six months, not in another year and a half, but now.
Sure, pets can burst for decent to high damage, but for kittens sake – they need to land their hits. We have to dish out all our cc to get our pets to land at least one hit, and not even then we can be sure of getting a hit in.
It’s so simple to avoid pets it’s laughable. My least feared opponent in this game is another ranger, and that’s purely because of how incredibly easy it is to avoid the pets 90% of the time.

In spvp, playing as a ranger, you’ll 90% of the time be the target of choice from the other team. Now ask yourselves – why is that? Is it because all ppl playing rangers suck, or is it something with our class that makes us subpar compared to other classes, even if the player behind the class is of equal, or many times of higher, skill compared to others?

I’ve said it before, and I’ll say it again – to be a good ranger in pvp that can hold your ground vs other classes, you’ll need to be twice the player, especially compared to thieves.

*

In the ranger forums you’ll mostly see “qq-posts” yes, but there’s a reason for that. Go to the thieves forums, and you’ll of course see some “qq-posts” there as well, but just compare the two – they all seem to have a lot more fun in the thieves, mesmers and ele-forums, wouldn’t you agree?

It’s not like we don’t have alts, OP :p

There’s alot of decent critiques for the class that examine it on it’s own merits and flaws, but that feedback is so muddled with this sort of lingering malcontent that’s more about dashed expectations. It’s hard to tell how many are dissatisfied with Ranger, and how many are just dissatisfied in general that they can’t find a class that represents an aesthetic or common mechanical theme they enjoy.

I don’t hear nearly as much griping in the Engi forum…but it’s not like people are raging that it doesn’t play enough like TF2 Engi. You know?

Forzani.2584:

Peter.9406:

So I was bored since my computer is in the repair shop, again, and I was skimming through all the class forums and it seems that out all of them Ranger have the most threads about players complaining about their class. Sure there are 1 or 2 threads in each forum complaining about their class, but Rangers exceed that by having almost the entire front page of complaining threads.

There’s either on of two problems here:
1. The ranger community has a whole doesn’t know how to play and complain too much.

2. ANet poorly designed this class since every other class seems to be content with how their class is running.

Now what I think it is, a little bit of 1, mostly people complaining about pets being broken (except Fractals I agree they are broken there) and how they don’t compare to warriors or thieves in damage (no kitten Sherlock). However, I think it is more of 2 because there is a general consensus on this forum that isn’t seen on any other forum that the class needs some major work. Mind you that the same player population that is playing ranger could also be the same population playing the other professions as alts and there is no complaining there.

So I invite everyone who usually defends the class and argues that there is no problem at all L2P to browse through the other forums and see how a functioning class’ forum looks like, and then share your thoughts with me.

Note: I love playing this class, been playing it since BWE1 and I think I have a fairly good handle on it since I do tons of dungeons. However, I think it needs some minor tweaks that will improve the class tremendously that ANet seems scared to make.

Are you serious ? Everyone other class is content with what they have ? Either joking or trolling.

Yes I am serious. On a general consesus based off of the forums everyone is content with their class. Aside from necro, everyone seems happy go look for youselves. Of course there is a complaint thread here and there, that’s to be expected, but overall as a community they are content. It is much different then the ranger thread and if you can’t notice that then you need to brush off on your reading comprehension skills.

Daemon.4295:

Peter.9406:

I don’t think you can really prioritize which problem is more of an issue compared to the other because it is all relative the player. For instance, I hardly ever do an sort of PvP so those problems don’t matter much to me and to the other players who PvE as much as I do. On the other hand, PvP players would see them as major issues while the PvE ones not so much. The only common issue I can see is probably utility skills that are just broken, e.g. spirits. So in any case those should take priority over anything according to your approach.

I absolutely think you can prioritize the problems, and here’s why. The broken mechanics in PvP actually affect the outcome of your battles, while the PvE issues at most affect the total time spend to complete a dungeon (marginally, and that’s if you’re a beastmaster that has to pull most of the weight in your group). I personally have never experienced any sort of flak from a dungeon party for being a ranger, and certainly have never seen a group wipe because of a dead pet.

People tend to complain about the issues they live the most of course, but each issue has a different level of gravity so let’s try to be objective. Yes, lack of agony resistance for pets is just silly and needs to be addressed, but I don’t think we can honestly say that the ranger is any worse off in PvE overall than other classes. In PvP, on the other hand, we’re rock bottom with major, game-breaking bugs.

I can see you your point, PvP should have a higher priority but regardless pet and Fractals needs to be fixed and is up there on the list. However, when it comes to choosing skills and making build I believe rangers are worse off in PvE.

Vox Hollow.2736:

It’s not like we don’t have alts, OP :p

There’s alot of decent critiques for the class that examine it on it’s own merits and flaws, but that feedback is so muddled with this sort of lingering malcontent that’s more about dashed expectations. It’s hard to tell how many are dissatisfied with Ranger, and how many are just dissatisfied in general that they can’t find a class that represents an aesthetic or common mechanical theme they enjoy.

I don’t hear nearly as much griping in the Engi forum…but it’s not like people are raging that it doesn’t play enough like TF2 Engi. You know?

I don’t think it’s that hard to find those who dissatisfied with the class if you read into the threads.

OGDeadHead.8326:

Peter.9406:

There’s either on of two problems here:
1. The ranger community has a whole doesn’t know how to play and complain too much.

2. ANet poorly designed this class since every other class seems to be content with how their class is running.

Well, if one class forum is filled to the brim with mostly complaints, while other class forums boast about how they own this and that, you can’t simply play the “L2P-card” – something is clearly broken with the class, and needs urgent attention – now.

The small babysteps Anet are taking every third month or so won’t cut it anymore. So far, since release, rangers haven’t really seen anything significant enough to be worth mentioning, with the exception of pet rez underwater, which wasn’t even asked for in the first place.

You may see stuff you would consider buffs in the patchnotes, but only if you read them as someone who have never ever really played this class to its full potential. Almost all of our so called buffs are crappy stuff we never asked for in the first place, OR, they are general buffs that apply to all classes.

In a duel earlier today vs a an ele in wvw, I noticed my pet land maybe one or two attacks in a fight that lasted for a good 3 minutes, maybe more.

Pets are our downfall, and they’re the reason we fall short in this game. Don’t get me wrong now, I started to play the ranger because of the pets, but seriously, they need major work, and we need it now, not in six months, not in another year and a half, but now.
Sure, pets can burst for decent to high damage, but for kittens sake – they need to land their hits. We have to dish out all our cc to get our pets to land at least one hit, and not even then we can be sure of getting a hit in.
It’s so simple to avoid pets it’s laughable. My least feared opponent in this game is another ranger, and that’s purely because of how incredibly easy it is to avoid the pets 90% of the time.

In spvp, playing as a ranger, you’ll 90% of the time be the target of choice from the other team. Now ask yourselves – why is that? Is it because all ppl playing rangers suck, or is it something with our class that makes us subpar compared to other classes, even if the player behind the class is of equal, or many times of higher, skill compared to others?

I’ve said it before, and I’ll say it again – to be a good ranger in pvp that can hold your ground vs other classes, you’ll need to be twice the player, especially compared to thieves.

*

In the ranger forums you’ll mostly see “qq-posts” yes, but there’s a reason for that. Go to the thieves forums, and you’ll of course see some “qq-posts” there as well, but just compare the two – they all seem to have a lot more fun in the thieves, mesmers and ele-forums, wouldn’t you agree?

I agree with you completely. We have a steeper learning curve and require much more skill to master than the other classes. But honestly, I don’t see how they can fix pet pathing to be able to keep track of a human player. To program it would be really hard and could easily cause a OP pet if done incorrectly. The fact is a human player is gonna be smarter than the AI most of the time, so to fix a problem like this can be really difficult. However, the other problems should have been fixed already since they shouldn’t present that much of a problem.

spvp – ranger is a great dueliest, decent bunker and quite effective
wvw – decent duelist, but it makes no diff, and u’ll get zerged down. next to useless otherwise and easily replaced by warrior, mesmer, guard, thief, ele.
pve – who cares.

pets are subpar at best, spirits are completely utterly useless and so is most of their trait line, traps are in the wrong trait tree, LB on ranger is the worst weapon in the game, shouts next to useless and not worth slotting, half of signets useless

Peter.9406:

I agree with you completely. We have a steeper learning curve and require much more skill to master than the other classes.

this is one the main reasons i play my ranger. the high skillcap required for dodging, evading, vigor tanking, microing pets, and timing our small burst is FUN. but even at the level of complete mastery, the ranger cant make a single mistake against a good opponent and is arguably outclassed by many other profs at the same level of play.

Peter.9406:

There’s either on of two problems here:
1. The ranger community has a whole doesn’t know how to play and complain too much.

It amazes me how much people, especially my fellow rangers, complain about our profession. I have had great success with my ranger. Last night I defeated Simin, High Priestess of Dwayna. That encounter has a very strict burn time. We did it no problem. Rangers damage is fine.

In spvp, we have the tools to do well. It comes down to figuring it out. I have done my fair share of spvp, and to great success.

Stop complaining about the profession, and try to understand it. You will do a lot better.

DaisyRogers.6837:

Peter.9406:

DaisyRogers.6837:

Great, the other classes are easier to pick up and play. Ranger’s have a deceptively high skill cap in the sense that you need to pay attention to two healthbars, something that most of complaining population refuses to do.

The only complaints I really view as valid are spirits going pop way to quickly (few counters), and pets being broken in fractals and Jade Maw (no counters).

Every other complaint on this forum I have found a counter too. Which means yes its a l2p issue. Its just that most vocal rangers have refused to l2p and demand the class gets dumbed down to pew pewing arrows.

I agree, however there are some major issues that aren’t L2P issue like pets in fractals and spirits. The pet fractals issue is affecting our dungeon experience and is an unfair disadvantage. Spirits are horrible no matter how you play them you are better off bringing something else than those skills that barely do any support. I agree that rangers have a steep learning curve, but there are just too many essential parts that are broken and can’t be overcome by L2P.

And I don’t think the other classes are happier because they are easier to pick up, because classes like mesmer and ele still have a learning curve to work effectively. They are just working as intended with minimal bugs and problems.

I should re-clarify. Other classes are more straightforward to pick up, they do what you expect them to do. Even Ele and Mesmer are straightforward and doesn’t take long to get it rolling. Rangers cannot until you learn to work with the pet.

You will never see the damage numbers unless you work with the pet; CC with freeze, entangle, cripple whatever to get your pet in range (since fix pets hit pretty reliably once they are in range). You can also kite in a way to force your opponent into the pet. Melee makes it overly simple to max out your damage.

and when you fail to utilize the controls we have for our pet (what seperates us from MM) yes I expect your dps to suffer.

And yes, as I mentioned and you more or less repeated, I agree, we are broken in fractals, and most of our spirits are underwhelming (except stone and Elite) and insanely squishy when we fail to place them in an overly protective place.

The problem with what your saying is that for some reason you seem to thinks pets are working like they should be. They are not. I almost exclusively play WvW because that is what i enjoy but I can probably count on the fingers of one hand where my pet was a deciding factor in a 1v1 fight. I have said this in another thread but when was the last time you heard or read in chat a warning to “watch out you have a Rangers pet on you”? Or “hurry up and focus that pet down”? Really most dont even pay attention to a rangers pet myself included. When i fight a ranger 1v1 I dont even worry about their pet at all.

I dont really do dungeons but PvE in general i consider the ranger class AWESOME. I typically have no problem whatsoever fighting 4 lvl 80 mobs at the same time. it is WvW where we have problems and i would assume SPvP but i cant say for sure as I rarely go there after getting repeatedly killed by thieves with next to no effort at all.

Kaname.1925:

Peter.9406:

There’s either on of two problems here:
1. The ranger community has a whole doesn’t know how to play and complain too much.

It amazes me how much people, especially my fellow rangers, complain about our profession. I have had great success with my ranger. Last night I defeated Simin, High Priestess of Dwayna. That encounter has a very strict burn time. We did it no problem. Rangers damage is fine.

In spvp, we have the tools to do well. It comes down to figuring it out. I have done my fair share of spvp, and to great success.

Stop complaining about the profession, and try to understand it. You will do a lot better.

Are you saying you soloed the High priestess? When you say “WE” I am assuming you did not so I am not exactly sure what you are trying to say here.

You can spot a bad Ranger by the pet. Is it dead? Is it a significantly worse version of something else? Is it pig? Do they even swap pets? Or reposition it out of red circles using F3 F1? And the number one indicator…. is it unnamed? Just kidding… about that last one but to iterate my point… If you are not hiting F1-F4 as often as an Ele you are playing Ranger sub-optimally.

I’ve noticed that other class forums are either complaining about their class or playing Gaurdian, Warrior, Thief or DD/Ele and all I can say is… there is NO bad class only bad players.

Another way to spot a green ranger is by asking them what weapons they use. If they only ever use bows and the occasional war horn offhand for moving they are only playing half of the class. Ranger can be played as a front line melee just as effectively as a long range melee.

Long range melee, Tiriel?

Without wanting to write much, I will just say I think the ranger is fine. What some of you claim as broken, others find success with, so it’s hard to agree with you. It’s like:

“My pet sucks it never hits.”

Me thinking Huh? My pet hits just fine? There’s no way I took out that bunker guardian alone, I was specced into defense? I didn’t make those 2.5k hits?

Jazenn.7526:

Without wanting to write much, I will just say I think the ranger is fine. What some of you claim as broken, others find success with, so it’s hard to agree with you. It’s like:

“My pet sucks it never hits.”

Me thinking Huh? My pet hits just fine? There’s no way I took out that bunker guardian alone, I was specced into defense? I didn’t make those 2.5k hits?

I’m sure at one point in history, a soldier managed to survive a one on one with an enemy by flinging dung in his face.

Point is that while flinging dung can be effective, you’ll much rather go to war with a firearm. It’s just that much more effective.

Likewise, while a ranger can be effective, you’ll much rather go to war with a warrior, thief, mesmer, elementalist, guardian, or necromancer.

Agadar.4931:

Jazenn.7526:

Without wanting to write much, I will just say I think the ranger is fine. What some of you claim as broken, others find success with, so it’s hard to agree with you. It’s like:

“My pet sucks it never hits.”

Me thinking Huh? My pet hits just fine? There’s no way I took out that bunker guardian alone, I was specced into defense? I didn’t make those 2.5k hits?

I’m sure at one point in history, a soldier managed to survive a one on one with an enemy by flinging dung in his face.

Point is that while flinging dung can be effective, you’ll much rather go to war with a firearm. It’s just that much more effective.

Likewise, while a ranger can be effective, you’ll much rather go to war with a warrior, thief, mesmer, elementalist, guardian, or necromancer.

Hmmm, except I wouldn’t say that the ranger is dung lol.

I like this analogy: In a toolkit, the ranger would be the swiss army knife. And I like that.

Jazenn.7526:

Agadar.4931:

Jazenn.7526:

Without wanting to write much, I will just say I think the ranger is fine. What some of you claim as broken, others find success with, so it’s hard to agree with you. It’s like:

“My pet sucks it never hits.”

Me thinking Huh? My pet hits just fine? There’s no way I took out that bunker guardian alone, I was specced into defense? I didn’t make those 2.5k hits?

I’m sure at one point in history, a soldier managed to survive a one on one with an enemy by flinging dung in his face.

Point is that while flinging dung can be effective, you’ll much rather go to war with a firearm. It’s just that much more effective.

Likewise, while a ranger can be effective, you’ll much rather go to war with a warrior, thief, mesmer, elementalist, guardian, or necromancer.

Hmmm, except I wouldn’t say that the ranger is dung lol.

I like this analogy: In a toolkit, the ranger would be the swiss army knife. And I like that.

The broken swiss army knife that has one and a half of it’s many tools even remotely useful

Jay.3284:

Jazenn.7526:

Agadar.4931:

Jazenn.7526:

Without wanting to write much, I will just say I think the ranger is fine. What some of you claim as broken, others find success with, so it’s hard to agree with you. It’s like:

“My pet sucks it never hits.”

Me thinking Huh? My pet hits just fine? There’s no way I took out that bunker guardian alone, I was specced into defense? I didn’t make those 2.5k hits?

I’m sure at one point in history, a soldier managed to survive a one on one with an enemy by flinging dung in his face.

Point is that while flinging dung can be effective, you’ll much rather go to war with a firearm. It’s just that much more effective.

Likewise, while a ranger can be effective, you’ll much rather go to war with a warrior, thief, mesmer, elementalist, guardian, or necromancer.

Hmmm, except I wouldn’t say that the ranger is dung lol.

I like this analogy: In a toolkit, the ranger would be the swiss army knife. And I like that.

The broken swiss army knife that has one and a half of it’s many tools even remotely useful

No, just a regular swiss army knife. Some don’t know all the functions, might get frustrated and call it dung, but others use it well.

Jazenn.7526:

Jay.3284:

Jazenn.7526:

Agadar.4931:

Jazenn.7526:

Without wanting to write much, I will just say I think the ranger is fine. What some of you claim as broken, others find success with, so it’s hard to agree with you. It’s like:

“My pet sucks it never hits.”

Me thinking Huh? My pet hits just fine? There’s no way I took out that bunker guardian alone, I was specced into defense? I didn’t make those 2.5k hits?

I’m sure at one point in history, a soldier managed to survive a one on one with an enemy by flinging dung in his face.

Point is that while flinging dung can be effective, you’ll much rather go to war with a firearm. It’s just that much more effective.

Likewise, while a ranger can be effective, you’ll much rather go to war with a warrior, thief, mesmer, elementalist, guardian, or necromancer.

Hmmm, except I wouldn’t say that the ranger is dung lol.

I like this analogy: In a toolkit, the ranger would be the swiss army knife. And I like that.

The broken swiss army knife that has one and a half of it’s many tools even remotely useful

No, just a regular swiss army knife. Some don’t know all the functions, might get frustrated and call it dung, but others use it well.

While you use that swiss army knife on that enemy of yours, i’ll be using a rifle.

Jay.3284:

Jazenn.7526:

Jay.3284:

Jazenn.7526:

Agadar.4931:

Jazenn.7526:

Without wanting to write much, I will just say I think the ranger is fine. What some of you claim as broken, others find success with, so it’s hard to agree with you. It’s like:

“My pet sucks it never hits.”

Me thinking Huh? My pet hits just fine? There’s no way I took out that bunker guardian alone, I was specced into defense? I didn’t make those 2.5k hits?

I’m sure at one point in history, a soldier managed to survive a one on one with an enemy by flinging dung in his face.

Point is that while flinging dung can be effective, you’ll much rather go to war with a firearm. It’s just that much more effective.

Likewise, while a ranger can be effective, you’ll much rather go to war with a warrior, thief, mesmer, elementalist, guardian, or necromancer.

Hmmm, except I wouldn’t say that the ranger is dung lol.

I like this analogy: In a toolkit, the ranger would be the swiss army knife. And I like that.

The broken swiss army knife that has one and a half of it’s many tools even remotely useful

No, just a regular swiss army knife. Some don’t know all the functions, might get frustrated and call it dung, but others use it well.

While you use that swiss army knife on that enemy of yours, i’ll be using a rifle.

From a toolbox? Lol but no.

This is all just empty talk anyway.

Daemon.4295:

Same old story, expect the same old posts. People saying Rangers are fine and dandy as they still don’t understand that the real problems are all in PvP and not PvE, people saying they kill lots of other players in WvW (where you’re up against weaker players), people saying they rock in sPvP just to boast on the forums.

Lots of classes have issues, Rangers are the only class with broken core mechanics in PvP (damage from pets and projectiles not functioning as intended). The class doesn’t need minor tweaks, it needs urgent fixing. In PvE it needs minor tweaks like any other class (some non-sensical or useless traits, pets dying too easily in dungeons).

Nah, I had about 30 kills, two keep captures, and 2 deaths tonight in dubs in about an hour of casual play (teaching a party of new rangers my tactics such as FLANK STEAK, which is a tactic that isn’t in the current meta…not what you think it is). I just think you’re mistaken. I really wish I could party up with you guys and show you how it’s done.

And by the way I’m not here to boast. I’m here to defend the class. People like you spread this incorrect nonsense about this class being somehow less than other classes in a battle and it’s just opinion based on anecdotal experience of a few disgruntled players.

For you guys, though, I’ve realized that you’ll never shut up. All you do is complain and bring up these tired old topics over and over again. No matter how many pain inveter videos you see, no matter how much math I show to prove equivalent DPS, no matter how much I try to explain that the players skill and keybindings tilt the battlefield, no matter how much I try to help, literally help, you learn to play this class…it’s almost as if you don’t actually want to improve and/or are using claims of “broken mechanics” as a substitute for personal responsibility.

Either way, there are bugs, but the problems are just simply not drastic enoigh to warrant the NOISE you give it. Your foolishness is why PUGs think rangers suck…even in dungeons! I struggle to PUG dungeons these days. People are like “oh…a ranger?” And it’s all because of you guys spreading lies.

For example, arah path four: you need roughly 3000 attack per person on simin, not “three warriors a guardian and mesmer only”. That kind of nonsense is bad for players like me and bad for the game in general. (I beat path 4 arah with engineer, guardian, elementalist, warrior, and myself).

Seriously, you guys make me sick and not want to ever use these forums. Like I know the names of the top three whiners and we’re all over your drivel. Just stop. LeAve.