Guild Wars 2

Dear ANet.

I am a devoted “Ranger” player. In every MMORPG/RPG game I play where possible I gravitate toward the “Ranger/Hunter” class. Lots of games have different takes on "What makes a “Ranger” a “Ranger”.

Objectively speaking, some of the first things that come to mind when you think “Ranger” are nature, bow/arrow, growth, mobility, agility, swiftness, stealthy, animal affinity, primal affinity, living off the land/outdoorsy, Druidic [etc.]. Therefore as long as you touch on some of these elements you can keep a “Ranger-Lover” like myself happy as a clam….However

For the first time I am really having a difficult time “Loving” my Ranger in GW2. How can this be when you’ve done such a great job making the ranger “Feel like a Ranger”? Well to be honest, It’s the end-game feeling of the ranger that makes it a dissappointment. From level 1-79 I experimented with all the weapons, and different combinations. I tested and spent time learning each and every pet and their quirks. I got 100% world completion on my ranger and enjoyed almost every second of it! This is because the Ranger is one of your most PVE-leveling content completion friendly classes. Utilizing pets, the Ranger has the ability to easily coast through most PVE environments, and feels effective and balanced [if not a little bit too easy]. However, when I hit level 80, and I ran out of world to explore…I began to feel the burden of “lacklusterness” that a lot of rangers feel when our class clearly doesn’t mesh well with the current “Endgame Meta”. It is difficult to get a group for Fractals and high level dungeons because the Ranger class while “Good at everything – is great at nothing!”

Who wants a condition build Ranger, who is constantly hitting 25 stacks of low duration bleed on an opponent so that other “more potent” bleeds like the necromancers can’t get through? Who wants a Ranger in melee mode, who puts out less damage overall than a thief, guardian, or Warrior…and goes down quicker too? Who wants a Ranger on Jade Maw, with their dumb un-stowable pets being targeted by the beam over and over again? Your development team has stated that the Rangers damage output is based largely upon their ability to micro-manage their pet…but then you gave pets the most unsatisfying excuse for an AI system that they spend half the time swinging at air! Half of the weapons you’ve given my Ranger the ability to use aren’t viable for high level play! Spirits are useless minions, with no survivability and pathetic activated abilities. I look at my trait trees and I wonder….why did they go to the trouble of making so many different traits…and then make a class that can only afford to be built 1-2 different ways if they want to be even remotely efficient at endgame play? I feel consistently outmatched in PVP/WvW, and I honestly beg ANet to consider making it an option [like in GW1] for a Ranger to forgo having a pet in exchange for higher damage output on their weapons.

I am sure, that people are going to say that “I need to learn to play” and that my complaints have no merit to them. However, It has come to the point that “Why play my ranger, when one of the other classes can do whatever my ranger can do…better.” I am sick and tired of people seeing that I am a ranger and refusing to invite me to a party because they need a “Guardian/Warrior/Mesmer”. I am tired of pounding my F2 key/holding it down until the pet AI “figures out what I want”. I am tired of “Lick Wounds” not working for no reason. I am tired of my pet “trailing behind me being hit by enemy abilities….which then forces me to walk super slow even if I am out of range/not being hit.”

Seriously ANet…You went to the trouble of making the Ranger one of your playable classes….now put some effort into making them viable for level 80 content. There should be perks to the ranger that will make groups WANT a ranger in party! Make the spirits better! make the pet smarter?! Make Duel-wielding axes a viable weapon combination! ANYTHING! Just do something! Something to help a “Ranger Lover” like me actually feel useful/beneficial to the parties I play with.

-Cole Winters

Agreed. Or at least they could make the pets a little more tankier or something to stop them being dead over 50% of the time. Pets are useless in most cases. The only thing good about the pets are that some of there special abilities are quite good, however you can’t use them half the time because they’re dead before they even get to the enemy. Also, rangers in boss fights = no pet at all. The boss normally just 1 shots the pet always, in nearly every situation. I’m also a ranger lover with that being my first choice in nearly every game that gives me that choice.

One of the worst changes they made is to how pets resurrect. In dungeons, both of your pet swaps are easily used up from crazy AoE damage. They need to reduce the damage pets take in AoE, and either reduce the cooldown on swaps, or change the mechanics of how you resurrect your pets.

Also, I feel like as a ranger, pets need to be more personalized and unique. I know you can tell them to attack or stay, but that’s not enough to separate them from other in game minions. They should have some kind skill tree or at least something unique to make them a “ranger” pet.

Amen. Your post contains nothing but honesty.

I agree wholeheartedly with the OP hopfully more people get on and see the post before the trolls come in and start ruining the conversation.

I wholeheartedly agree. A lot of work needs to be done to make Rangers a useful and desired class. I’d much rather have only one pet that I am actually attached to, that I rely to deal the missing portion of my damage, than remain with the current state of things. As of now, pets feel like disposable punching bags that are as amiable as a wet towel.

I feel about the same most of the time. The ranger is a great class but what is really difficult is the pet in dungeons, especially fractals.
Until they implement agony resistance for the pet (should have the same agony resistance as the ranger) pet’s die simply too fast.

Then there are the ranged pets. They deal extremely bad damage compared to a jaguar/lynx or birds.
Why is there no pure damage ranged pet. It should do like 70% of the damage of the melee damage pets without having any CC’s or any other useful buffs.
That way it wouldn’t be too powerful.
We need such an option since melee pets die just too fast in many situations.
Stowing pets is very important. The mechanic is there already. Just change it so that we can stow it and it stays stowed even if we enter a fight.

While I can understand that they might not want that pets survive everything we need the tools to make it survive if we do good micromanagement.
But as it is now even that doesn’t work because of AoE damage.
Pets should get max 50% damage from pure AoE sources which are not directly aimed at the pet. Even 50% is alot but that would probably at least stop all these onehits. If it can survive these huge AoE hits even with only 20-30% life thats already alot better than it is now. We at least have the time then to react.
And again – the agony resistance is very important. Without agony resistance pets are not useful in fractals. You even implemented that attribute for the pets. The problem is it is always at zero.

The Ranger is a really nice class. I also like the idea of having an important pet. But like the OP said we need options to control the pet for certain situations.

It is disappointing to have 30 points on Beastmastery and still my pet dies in 5 seconds in Dungeon, even in a small fight in Eternal Battlegrounds Jumping puzzle…

I expected more of a community reaction to this. Thank you to the people who supported my views!

I would change the pets resurrection similar to players.
If I kill a foe, my pet would get rallied.
1.This would make pets more viable in dungeons.
2.I think this wouldn’t make pets OP in PvP, because you still need to kill a foe, not just down. And you can still swap your pet even if it dies in 1v1.(I hope you understand what I’m trying to say).

If Anet implemented this feature, but lowered pets dmg, it would be a message from Anet saying “You are balanced on having your pet dead most of the time”, which is opposite to the Class balance philosophy (or what ever it is called) where Anet said Ranger being balanced on having the pet always with him/her. But this is only an If.

Good points, although one little nit-pick: Pets will only force you into combat if they attack back at mobs, not if they are hit. Either set them to passive behavior (the blue dove icon), or spam F3 (Return to Me) when they get hit.

Rangers also achieve their best damage output when they are using all types of damage at their disposal. For example, even if you aren’t specced primarily into condition damage, it’s worthwhile to use a trap or two, or throw your torch at the enemy for some burn damage, then switch to your longbow or power-specced shortbow and fire away. Have a good amount of toughness as well, and make use of the plentiful access to vigor, regeneration, and quickness buffs.

I believe that’s what ANet meant by “Jack of all Trades.”

Anybody ever play FFXII? Anet should just steal the gambit system and apply it to pets. Just copy it wholesale, in addition to some much needed basic AI improvements.

You know what is funny. Was looking some froums today to see which class I might pick up to do the general PvE and a bit WvW with it. I looked up Necro, Ranger , Ele and Engi and in all froums there is at least on thread like this claming the other classes do way better others. I can only judge for the Mesmer and Guardian. The Guardian sure is the King of PvE atm

skittlebob.4850:

They need to reduce the damage pets take in AoE, and either reduce the cooldown on swaps, or change the mechanics of how you resurrect your pets.

decreasing switch time is bad tbh… that would make pvp pet swapping even more effective (i use duel dogs) on a 20 second time-line i get access to a howl (another pet, heal, or fear) and 2 seconds of quickness. quickness is single handedly the best boon possible and it’s almost readily available every 20 seconds if built right. and is great for rezzing, burst, and basically everything. if lucky ranger can chain 10 seconds of quickness (rune of rage+qz+petswap)

the timer though should be the regular timer if the pet dies though not the long one we have now.

I’m new to the game but I was told that melee rangers can put out some dps… and guardian dps is weak… now your (op) is saying guardian can put out more dps than a melee ranger?? Now I’m confused.

Cole Winters.2764:

I expected more of a community reaction to this. Thank you to the people who supported my views!

I think a lot of people have put their rangers on the way side until things get sorted out. As at the moment we get turned over for everything as it is more beneficial for them to take warrior’s and guardian’s. I love my ranger and I hope they will soon give us the option for choosing between pets or no pets(without being gimped).

I have also finally put my Ranger in Southsun Shore, and I log in once per day to mine the rich orichalcum node. Now that my guardian has hit level 80…why use my Ranger for anything else until ANet makes some changes to make the Ranger more useful in level 80 PVE Content.

They could just copy WoW…

1. Pet AI automatically strives to be behind enemy when attacking. This way they avoid frontal cones and swipes.
2. Pets take reduced aoe damage.
3. Pets can be stowed permanently.
4. Pets can be used autonomously (eyes of the beast)

Now for one specific to GW2; Rangers have a hotkey that when pressed will make their pet do a dodge.

There! Pet fixed, and Rangers can play in Endgame content.

(Ok that doesn’t address the bleed issue but that’s a entirely different discussion that involves other classes. My Alt is a necro so I know all about it…)

I agree with most of what you’ve said.
My girlfriend got refused for a Dungeon because of her ranger.

Though I do enjoy using my Ranger for PvP
http://i1137.photobucket.com/albums/n519/CourageousFlame/GW2/gw050_zps614b42c6.jpg

I agree with OP and most people here really. Rangers need some love, and the pet system need to be taken care of.
I think dmg-wise its ok with rangers with their best pets. But Rangers makes me rarely smile when i use rangerskills animation-wise, as i imagine the thieves do when in stealth, etc.. And the pets that cant really keep up with my targets or is dead is just depressing! I rather not pay attention to the pets.

So Anet, please..

1. The ranger has a pet. I want to like (love?) it.

If the pet, as already suggested in a post in this thread, tries to always get behind or on the side of the enemies it would be GREAT! It would trigger at least three benefits: Pets can make more critical or bleeding if from the side/behind, so the enemy would need to pay attention to it, or soak it up.. If the enemy turns towards it then the ranger shortbow can actually make the monsters bleed more. It will loosen the aggro towards the ranger a bit. And finally the pet wil get way less dmg if the monsters keep their focus on the player. Then the pet is an intelligent ally! THAT would put a huge smile on my face!

Also, the pets need to be able to soak some more dmg through more HP and thoughness i think.
The different pets should have the same amount of life (a bit less if ranged), weather it is a pig, bear, cat or dog, cause this is a RPG-MMO and the RPG stands for Role Playing Game, and that implies that it actually matters to be able to choose what kind of pet you got.. I want to look good in my uber armor, but then i got this pig at my feets because it might have the stats/skill i look for.. no good. At least it doesnt help making me love pets more^^
It would also be lovely if we could choose which eliteskill the pet is using, from the existing eliteskills. It sure would make me like my pet so much more if i can choose. And the pet could just use it of its own, as the first thing it does, and on every recharge = No more F2 stress for me.
And.. i miss my white tiger from GW. .

2. Spirits. As of today they are practically useless. How many rangers use them?
I would like to put up one spirit. And it should be the one i feel is the best for me and my team for the situation/build. One spirit is enough. Three rangers could put up three spirits and be more popular in end-game dungeons. And please make it easy, fun and practical. Let me put it up more or less on recharge, and perhaps even make a dedicated skillslot for it, instead of the pet-skill. That way it would feel like a lovely addition.

3. I would love to have one skill that has more power and geist to it and that also looks awsome (animation) like the Burning Arrow from GW. With poisen, weakness and burning..! Nice stuff..!
I would feel more like a powerful marksman with that then with the Hunter’s Shot/Concussion Shot as of today.

4. The warrior and thief got better looking skills with the bow then the ranger. I suggest to just remove the bow from them to begin with! And let us have their skills in, lets say, a Recurve bow and a (one-hand/two-hand) Cross bow..! That means we can have some cool new weapons also. The warrior has his shotgun and the thieves have pistols, so no need to steal our signature ranged weapon! I would love to have a one-handed crossbow like in D3, with the thieves skills on it, in one hand and a warhorn in the other^^ THAT would put a smile on my face..

Ok, enough from me for now

Backtrap.1807:

I’m new to the game but I was told that melee rangers can put out some dps… and guardian dps is weak… now your (op) is saying guardian can put out more dps than a melee ranger?? Now I’m confused.

This is because when armors and weapons that give 2-3 stats per piece factor in, a Guardian can start to go the Cleric route for Power/Toughness/Healing Power, giving their attacks a good amount of raw damage, lowering the damage they take from non-condition attacks via toughness and making their many heals (dodge roll included) stronger via Healing Power. They have many ways to remove conditions to support the P/T/H route. They can create pretty much every kind of boon with some of their shouts and every fifth hit inflicts the burning condition thanks to one of their Virtues.

Heck, they get a nifty Smite Conditions utility that on top of a passive healing signet removing conditions 1 per 10 seconds (2 per 10 if traited) will do extra damage if a condition is on them.

Easy access to condition removal, heals all around that are best done by being a DnD cleric (bashing enemy’s face in while providing boons), with raw power (stat) can make even dps-specced guardians damaging while having a lot of survivability. Even tank-specced guardians can have a lot of dps. The spirit weapons, namely the sword, cannot be killed and vanish after a certain time and are free damage.

A well-specced and geared guardian can bring heaps of benefits to any group while bringing a lot of pain. A ranger simply cannot do that nearly as effectively. They struggle with range, but even Sceptre has that Smite power as number 2 that just decimates anything sticking in melee. Mace/Focus guardians have access to two blocks, one is good for three hits, but a mace/shield guardian is more team-focused.

Valor, the line that beefs up Toughness also beefs up critical damage percentage. Honor beefs up Vitality and Healing Power, which is a wonderful way to compliment the extra hp given by Honor line.

Rangers on the other hand have trait lines that don’t make much sense (the same could be said of all aside from guardian/warrior) and their class mechanic is actually a problem in most cases, mainly due to poor AI and pet attribute scaling. Even rangers say that 30 points into BM isn’t much useful in dungeons and fractals.

Honestly, I feel like the pet shouldn’t even be killable at all. What other class can actively have a big chunk of their utility and damage shut down so easily? They should just have a mechanic that causes us the player to take like 10% of the pets damage as our own to discourage passive play but still allow the idea of pet tanking. As it stands, the pet can’t tank anything that would need it and when any kind of AoE gets thrown around, end-game or WvW, they fold faster than Superman on laundry day.

The only other class that so heavily relies on NPC’s is the Mesmer and they actually benefit, quite heavily if traited right, when their minions die.

If they really want it to be “Part of the ranger” or whatever than they should have put a little stupid npc that I can kill to disable thief initiative regen or warrior adrenalin gain.

Like most mmo’s have realized in last few years. A 90% dmg reduction from AoE is pretty mandatory. And with the way things hit in this game thats still a bad day unless your running BM line right. Using your roll, switching etc.

*@ Sub… As Anet has said 1000 times Mesmers “minions” as u say, are NOT pets. Nor minions… That’s all part of their mechanics. Giving similar to this class would be to OP; like when Spirits actually worked before the nerf that destroyed them.

Its Necros and Rangers (at least the BM line; but all should get it built in) that need this. At least a trait.

100% support the op. I only wished it could be stickied long enough for the devs to pay attention to it because you are completely right.

+1

(Message Body length must at least be 15.)

Cole Winters.2764:

I expected more of a community reaction to this. Thank you to the people who supported my views!

l support all your points.

Let’s have a proper viable Ranger, and a pet that’s actually worth something, (or take the darned thing away altogether).

I haven’t reached endgame with my lvl 80 ranger yet but I feel that based on what others have said, perhaps I should go slowly to give Anet time to make some changes

I haven’t reached endgame for exactly the reasons the OP liked their ranger. It’s just too easy. Got to level 51 or so but just lost interest. Which is a shame cos this should be my favorite class and toon. Everything about it is just right, except the dull gameplay and all too obvious pet problems.

I am really hoping to get a developer comment on this – Perhaps one that is on the “Ranger balancing team”…that is assuming there is one…

Bows? Pets? Forget that. I model myself after a real Ranger.

Cole Winters.2764:

Who wants a Ranger on Jade Maw, with their dumb un-stowable pets being targeted by the beam over and over again?

Either make a permanent stow function, or pets not being targeted by Jade Maw!

Cole Winters.2764:

There should be perks to the ranger that will make groups WANT a ranger in party! Make the spirits better! make the pet smarter?! Make Duel-wielding axes a viable weapon combination! ANYTHING! Just do something! Something to help a “Ranger Lover” like me actually feel useful/beneficial to the parties I play with.

100 % agree!

My Sweet Lily.1952:

If I kill a foe, my pet would get rallied.

This would actually be really good! Of course in addition to reduced AoE damage intake for pets.

I read posts like this all the time and I totally agree with every point you make. Has ANet ever given a response to the ranger such as upcoming fixes to this?

I am sick of keeping a closer eye on my pets health than my own. Even the bears have been dead in 1 second leaving me with a minute CD on swap, greatly reducing my already low damage.

You can’t avoid the fact that the change WoW implented (reduced AoE damage to pets) changed everything to the better. It will change everything in GW2 as well, making us more favorable in endgame while resolving many damage issues and whatnot… Make it a trait and it will be one of those you can’t be without.

Totally agree with everything that’s been said and suggested here.

Give us the Ranger that we want, not one the way that Anet “think” it should be.

I agree, for me it really boils down to pet AI. Pet skills need to be more reliable, mashing F2 is frustrating, pets need to be better at hitting moving targets, and need to have some way of avoiding or mitigating AoE. Just an idea: a trait that causes pets to dodge-roll in sync with the ranger. Definitely need a permanent stow option as well, for those hairy moments in dungeons.

I know GW2 is going out of it’s way to be completely different from similar games, and mostly, have gotten it right, but please, take the time to learn from the mistakes of other games who have ranger/hunter characters.

Having played a hunter in Vanilla WoW, I feel I’ve gone right back there again and lost 6 years worth of improvements that were made to make hunters and their pets work in end game scenarios/dungeons.

Fully support this thread and request some tlc for this class

+1 on this post.

I stowed my Ranger away before Christmas and haven’t logged into the game since. No other class interests me at this point, so I just check the update notes waiting for spirits and pets to be fixed.

while there are some very vaild points in the OP I will say that on the survivability aspect of melee ranger you’re just using the wrong spec or don’t know how to use your evasive and Blocking moves properly, don’t get me wrong I agree on the damage portion of what you said, as for survivability that part is a L2P issue on your part.

Only thing I really disagree with you on.

Totally agree with the OP. I remember the good ‘ol days of GW when massive group of B/P rangers went into dungeons looking for trouble. Ranger pets didn’t die from the slightest breeze from a boss or aoe attack. The Ranger is built right: a pet, some bows, some swords, and some great skills. Unfortunately, many of them don’t work right. The LB is weak & situational, the SB is a boring #1 spammer, the spirits are underpowered and more fragile than the pets, the pets have more bugs than I’ll mention here. The idea behind the Ranger is fantastic. I love it the most. But the execution leaves much to be desired.

Agreed Cole, Ive made posts like this multiple times. Anet hasnt done anything to change the state of ranger thus far. Ive given up hope of anything real coming from them and am just passing time while I wait to see the patch notes in hopes that Ill be surprised. Its sad how bad pets are for rangers. Come on ESO and Neverwinter.

The fact that this has not been answered by A-net breaks my heart. One of the better threads I’ve seen on the matter. Good on you OP.

Seras.5702:

Totally agree with the OP. I remember the good ‘ol days of GW when massive group of B/P rangers went into dungeons looking for trouble. Ranger pets didn’t die from the slightest breeze from a boss or aoe attack. The Ranger is built right: a pet, some bows, some swords, and some great skills. Unfortunately, many of them don’t work right. The LB is weak & situational, the SB is a boring #1 spammer, the spirits are underpowered and more fragile than the pets, the pets have more bugs than I’ll mention here. The idea behind the Ranger is fantastic. I love it the most. But the execution leaves much to be desired.

I agree with you and Cole.

I haven’t been playing ranger long, but I have been playing long enough to know they are lacking in endgame. Long bow is situational, a bit too much situational; They need to take off that damage at range and decrease the #1 skill speed slightly. I have been using the short bow since I made my character, and in my opinion, it feels like a weak, spam weapon. I can’t give much feedback because I haven’t experimented with rangers enough in dungeons or all their abilities yet, but I do know they’re lacking and need attention.

^ They really should. Alot of people dont think longbow should be addressed till other issues are but imo its just as important. Most rangers I know wanted to play a longbow ranger but ended up going shortbow or melee because the state longbow is in. Im rdy to quit until the longbow is buffed/changed personally, I know others who are as well. Hopefully anet gets their act together and can focs less time on op classes that compete and more on ranger so we can compete. The meta game is stupid, absolutely stupid, seems anet is doing what ghostcrawler did in wow and focusing on the most played classes aka mage and warrior.

Amen brother. I feel this thread should stay on the first page, maybe eventually someone from Anet will give it a look :/

this needs to be stickied on the front page. the amount of truth is overwhelming.

This is so “everything” that’s wrong with the Ranger.

I am also a massive Ranger fan, I always play a Ranger, l loved my GW1 Ranger, I actually played one Ranger, my only ever character, from the release of GW1 to a few months before GW2 was released.

And now I find my Ranger lacklustre and nothing like my brilliant GW1 Ranger, my pets rubbish, it’s a liability, I’m dragging it around dead most of the time (Don’t tell me I need to “micro” manage it because it dies so quickly and even when it’s recovered to 80% health it still stands there like a banana). No I don’t want it at all.

But I don’t think we are going to get anywhere here, Anet are going to stick with how they see “their” Ranger, which is really a Beastmaster.

I won’t be making any other characters, and may have to just park my ranger up.

(No you can’t have my stuff).

Just want to give my support to the OP. I love the ranger and also loved the Hunter in WOW. However, both games failed to make the classes beneficial to end game content.

If the hunter’s main attribute is the pet, then the pet should possess something to make it worth while. I don’t agree that pet’s shouldn’t take any damage but if they had a 90% damage reduction constant across any damage (single or aoe) then I think this would give the ‘edge’ that would actually produce some very exciting and variable gameplay adding a new layer to a ranger.

Could you imagine a full ‘range’ styled play with a devourer and long bow, that would be awesome!

I have a fully kitted out Mesmer, Warrior and Ele as well as my Ranger but my Ranger is still my main. Great survivability in dungeons, never been refused a FotM or even felt like the weakest member, my pet spends the majority of the the time alive and I rip it up in pvp using stuff like the ‘broken’ 1-h sword and gs.

While I agree the Ranger has aspects that could be improved, spirits being a big case in point, I disagree that we are nearly as bad as many people claim. I also notice a lot of the people that complain about Rangers or claim x & y about other classes play nothing but Ranger. Try making a few more toons and get a real perspective about your class. Once you realise that the Mesmers, Warrs and thiefs all have major drawbacks too you might feel a bit less hard done by.

It’s gotten so bad that even I feel bad when I join Dungeons/Fractals on my Ranger. Like I honestly feel guilty for being there on her, not because I’m a bad player, but because I have 4 other useful 80s I could have joined with instead.

I have an 80 Thief, 80 Ele, 80 Guardian and an 80 Necro.

But I still enjoy the Ranger class above them all, maybe it’s because I do Archery in real life. I just greatly dislike what GW2 has done with them. They’re holding them back from being potentially awesome.

At one point in Beta, I said to myself “Ranger’s are in a pretty good spot, they’re really strong!” and they were. However, Anet nerfed us to the ground. TO THE GROUND! >:[ And continued to nerf us even after release, with minimal compensation or further fixes. So here we are.

Anyone know if changes have been made or are planning on being made to rangers? My ranger is 60 and if not I’ll work on a new profession.

Sorry if I necro bumped this, but I couldn’t agree more with Cole.
I support the OP of this thread, and express my frustrations on being a Ranger (even though it’s the class that I most enjoy, and the reason why I decided to play Guild Wars 2 in the first place).