Guild Wars 2

They were decent with the grandmaster trait already. Now they are decent without it and totally nuts with it.

• 8 seconds of +25% dmg and stability every 48 seconds
• prestacking signet of the hunts attack of opportunity makes your first attack hit for another +50% dmg and those will always crit
• this all applies to the pet aswell

I know what I will be running now in WvW. The imrovements I see from this patch is that signets and some wilderness survival are now viable utilities instead. Traps when traited. Spirits still bad. Shouts still awkward.

I find it hilarious that Signet of Stone, traited, is hugely better than Warrior Endure Pain…I mean, seriously? It was already better…now it also buffs my toughness a load when I don’t need it?

What I fear is that they nerf it just because the Grandmaster trait is what it makes it insane. Would be totally the wrong move again. They need to tune down the gandmaster tait if they decide it is too strong because untraited it isn’t.

Maybe the grandmaster should increase the cooldown when getting it. I would also be fine with Endure Pain buffs though because warrior lacks sustain.

I was using signets before the patch. I dropped ten more points in marksmanship and I’m using signet actives after the patch. I don’t know about WvW or PvP but it feels pretty good in dungeons.

Endure Pain is a stun breaker. That’s a massive advantage over Signet of Stone. When traited it can last for five seconds, so only second less. It has a longer cool down but the powerful effect + stun breaker justifies it. Signet of Stone is not a stun breaker.

Been running a signet build for a good few weeks now and love it, mainly for WvW. Requires a certain play style and learning when to activate the signets.

Shiren.9532:

Endure Pain is a stun breaker. That’s a massive advantage over Signet of Stone. When traited it can last for five seconds, so only second less. It has a longer cool down but the powerful effect + stun breaker justifies it. Signet of Stone is not a stun breaker.

The difference here, again, is to trait Endure Pain you use Sure Footed. Sure Footed is a trash of a trait. It’s pathetic and I’d never bother with it for an extra second from EP or 2 sec from Balanced Stance. I never really used Frenzy or Berserker’s stance…

On the other hand, Signet of the Beastmaster is a good trait. You actually want it, possibly even need it for some builds as it can make a huge difference. Yeah, EP is a stun breaker, which is its only saving grace. You can still use Signet of Stone while stunned since it’s instant, so for the differences, Endure Pain is still pretty much inferior in every way (lol if you get CC’ed while in EP, what then? :P).

That said, I feel that’s mainly an issue of Warrior and it sort of hits a sore spot for me because I wanted my first Warrior to be a ‘stance warrior’ but it’s not really a playstyle at all

Leo G.4501:

The difference here, again, is to trait Endure Pain you use Sure Footed. Sure Footed is a trash of a trait. It’s pathetic and I’d never bother with it for an extra second from EP or 2 sec from Balanced Stance. I never really used Frenzy or Berserker’s stance…

The issue here, is that a ranger needs to put 30 points into a traitline they might not even want in the first place to be able to use signets on themselves at all.

Signet of the Beastmaster is a good trait because signets are barely worth bringing without it. So much of people thinking it’s a good trait is because signet actives are really only worth it if they are traited to effect the ranger himself. Warriors don’t have to trait that, they get 100% efficient from their skills without traits.

I think you are undervaluing stun breakers.

Leo G.4501:

The difference here, again, is to trait Endure Pain you use Sure Footed. Sure Footed is a trash of a trait. It’s pathetic and I’d never bother with it for an extra second from EP or 2 sec from Balanced Stance. I never really used Frenzy or Berserker’s stance…

On the other hand, Signet of the Beastmaster is a good trait. You actually want it, possibly even need it for some builds as it can make a huge difference. Yeah, EP is a stun breaker, which is its only saving grace. You can still use Signet of Stone while stunned since it’s instant, so for the differences, Endure Pain is still pretty much inferior in every way (lol if you get CC’ed while in EP, what then? :P).

As someone already said, sure footed is far better than signet of the beast master, which is an awful trait in that you need it for signets to do what they do for every other class, and you have to invest 30 points to get it!!

And yes you can use signet of stone when stunned but that only negates their damage, with endure pain you can break the stun and actually attack them whilst they attempt to burst you – much more useful.

Wanderer.5471:

Leo G.4501:

The difference here, again, is to trait Endure Pain you use Sure Footed. Sure Footed is a trash of a trait. It’s pathetic and I’d never bother with it for an extra second from EP or 2 sec from Balanced Stance. I never really used Frenzy or Berserker’s stance…

On the other hand, Signet of the Beastmaster is a good trait. You actually want it, possibly even need it for some builds as it can make a huge difference. Yeah, EP is a stun breaker, which is its only saving grace. You can still use Signet of Stone while stunned since it’s instant, so for the differences, Endure Pain is still pretty much inferior in every way (lol if you get CC’ed while in EP, what then? :P).

As someone already said, sure footed is far better than signet of the beast master, which is an awful trait in that you need it for signets to do what they do for every other class, and you have to invest 30 points to get it!!

And yes you can use signet of stone when stunned but that only negates their damage, with endure pain you can break the stun and actually attack them whilst they attempt to burst you – much more useful.

That is a very shallow approach. Ranger signet effects are far stronger compared to other classes because they were designed to do what they do for the pet. Signet of the Beasmaster now makes them so much stornger because it transfer this for a signet overly powerful effect to the ranger as well. Yes, you have to go all they way for it but atleast currently this isn’t a hard decision because most ranger utilties require you to go all the way (it is the same for traps).

OGDeadHead.8326:

Leo G.4501:

The difference here, again, is to trait Endure Pain you use Sure Footed. Sure Footed is a trash of a trait. It’s pathetic and I’d never bother with it for an extra second from EP or 2 sec from Balanced Stance. I never really used Frenzy or Berserker’s stance…

The issue here, is that a ranger needs to put 30 points into a traitline they might not even want in the first place to be able to use signets on themselves at all.

That was before the signet patch. I’m loving the changes on paper so far, gonna see how it feels once my game finishes patching

Wanderer.5471:

Leo G.4501:

The difference here, again, is to trait Endure Pain you use Sure Footed. Sure Footed is a trash of a trait. It’s pathetic and I’d never bother with it for an extra second from EP or 2 sec from Balanced Stance. I never really used Frenzy or Berserker’s stance…

On the other hand, Signet of the Beastmaster is a good trait. You actually want it, possibly even need it for some builds as it can make a huge difference. Yeah, EP is a stun breaker, which is its only saving grace. You can still use Signet of Stone while stunned since it’s instant, so for the differences, Endure Pain is still pretty much inferior in every way (lol if you get CC’ed while in EP, what then? :P).

As someone already said, sure footed is far better than signet of the beast master, which is an awful trait in that you need it for signets to do what they do for every other class, and you have to invest 30 points to get it!!

And yes you can use signet of stone when stunned but that only negates their damage, with endure pain you can break the stun and actually attack them whilst they attempt to burst you – much more useful.

That is a very shallow approach. Ranger signet effects are far stronger compared to other classes because they were designed to do what they do for the pet. Signet of the Beasmaster now makes them so much stornger because it transfer this for a signet overly powerful effect to the ranger as well. Yes, you have to go all they way for it but atleast currently this isn’t a hard decision because most ranger utilties require you to go all the way (it is the same for traps). For a direct damage build there aren’t many other option anyway.

OGDeadHead.8326:

The issue here, is that a ranger needs to put 30 points into a traitline they might not even want in the first place to be able to use signets on themselves at all.

Which is why I think Ranger Signets are fine. The OP feels that the signets may be too strong with the trait, but I don’t. It’s because you can trait signets to be as strong as they are which can make the sacrifice worthwhile.

Shiren.9532:

Warriors don’t have to trait that, they get 100% efficient from their skills without traits.

I think you are undervaluing stun breakers.

But even traited, it doesn’t actually change the use of the stances…it just makes them last a second or two longer. And I’m not undervaluing stun breakers, I know how crucial they can be for a build, especially a squishy one. But remember, EP is a stun breaker on a 90sec cooldown so it’s not like it will serve you much when you get CC’ed again right after using it.

Sigil of Intelligence + Signet of the Hunt + Signet of the Beastmaster is kinda fun.

Start the fight with a guaranteed crit +150% damage Maul, and then during the fight save the active Signet of the Hunt until I swap back to Greatsword for another guaranteed crit +150% damage Maul. Because these big hits are guaranteed, I can lose some Precision and mix in Cavalier or Valkyrie that keeps the high power and crit-damage but adds in some defense.

Had this for awhile, but now with the other changes I am more likely to actually trigger the other signets and get the +25% damage.

Dojo.1867:

.Ranger signet effects are far stronger compared to other classes because they were designed to do what they do for the pet.

No, they were designed to work for both when traited; it’s not like the developers intended the ability to only work on pets then the players created the signet of the beastmaster trait!

The ranger’s effectiveness is split between the pet and ranger. You’re saying signets effecting pet and ranger with beastmastery is more powerful than other signets because it works on the player (100% effectiveness) as with other classes, but then it also effects a pet (extra 50% effectiveness) which other classes don’t have, so it’s more powerful (150% effectiveness).

What you fail to account for is that the ranger’s effectiveness is split between pet and ranger about 60% ranger, 40% pet depending on build. So the ability working on rangers when traited isn’t akin to 100% effectiveness from other classes, it’s only 60% effectiveness, only when ranger and pet are taken together is a ranger as powerful as another class, so when a signet effects both, that’s 100% effectiveness as with other classes, it’s no more effective just because it effects two entities, as the individual entities are less powerful.

Wanderer.5471:

only when ranger and pet are taken together is a ranger as powerful as another class, so when a signet effects both, that’s 100% effectiveness as with other classes, it’s no more effective just because it effects two entities, as the individual entities are less powerful.

Sounds like a bunch of hearsay and guessing.

IMO, signets (specifically those skills spread across the different professions and not the traits involved) are designed differently depending on the profession. They aren’t created equally in the sense of opportunity cost and traits.

I mean, are you going to tell me, just because an Elementalist gets 100% effectiveness from their signets, that they are better than Ranger untraited signets? It’s all dependent on circumstances and isn’t as cut and dry as one being 50% as good as the other.

Even with Written in Stone, I’d hardly say Ele signets match up to Ranger untraited signets if only because you have to dip 30 points into earth for it but it only lets you keep the passives. IMO, Ele signets only get really good when you add in traits like Fire’s Embrace + aura traits or Arcane Energy as an ele doesn’t need passives, but active effects to survive.

But I’d like to see a signet that grants 25% damage to something. Or reduces damage to 0.

Nope, still ain’t using signets. I lose too much in other skill lines to make the active signets useful… still.

How do y’all that use signets have your traits lined up?

What the hell, ele signets are great — it’s just cantrips are stupidly better.

Ele fire signet gives a 10 second burn 30 sec cd active, and when in passive grants a whopping 9% extra crit chance. That’s pretty big.

Signet of earth is pretty standard on scepter builds as the root helps land a wallop with Dragon’s Tooth, and it gives them 180 toughness to boot. Signet of water is the same as our signet of renewal except for the active, which is lower cd to compensate for their lesser effect.

The reason eles don’t use their signets is not because their signets are bad — it’s because other combinations are even better. What’s bad on eles is the elementals and the glyphs and some conjures.

But if you run a thor conjure hammer elementalist build, and use signet of fire, you are also the highest sustained class in the game, and that signet of fire is key because you need to crit with the autos to see the big numbers, and in case burning drops off a mob (the build need burning on target for 10% extra damage) you can pop the signet.

Ranger signets on the other hand are complete garbage without 30 points into the crappiest traitline rangers have.

People complain about SoS active, but to have it you’re giving up wilderness survival or pet damage. It’s just not worth it because most BM bunker rangers run condi builds and investment into a power line is just bad.

Ranger power builds in general are terrible because they have no way of dealing with boon abusers besides condition specs.

thefantasticg.3984:

Nope, still ain’t using signets. I lose too much in other skill lines to make the active signets useful… still.

How do y’all that use signets have your traits lined up?

Only time you spec into it is for glass cannon zerker ranger.

30 marksman, 20 skirmish, 20 beastmastery. That’s your best sustained damage build with burst, and the signets make sense for the extra DPS. You substitute signet of the hunt in pve for either guard or sic em.

Wanderer.5471:

Dojo.1867:

.Ranger signet effects are far stronger compared to other classes because they were designed to do what they do for the pet.

No, they were designed to work for both when traited; it’s not like the developers intended the ability to only work on pets then the players created the signet of the beastmaster trait!

No but when they finished implementing the signet of the beastmaster they saw how much they kittened it up and were like “welp lets just double the cooldown on ranger signets”. I still remember bw1 and believe me. It went down exactly like that.

I actually use two signets, and only 20 points in Marks. Been doing that for like 6 months. Beastmaster sig just isn’t nearly worth what I’d have to give up to use it. But then again, I only like the two signets for their passive effect.

As for warriors…they pretty much own me if they stay in melee range for too long(which is often). So I it’s hard for me to sympathize.

o/

Signets are huge support utilities and they can be used in most pvp builds I have seen and tested.

For example…
- stunbreak like SoR, or QZ, or LR, or WS-III Shared Anguish
- condition remove like SoR, or SoN, or WS-XI Emphatic Bond, or runes like lyssa / water / …, Healing Spring doesnt count!
- speed like SB#4 QS, or WH#5 CotW, or RAO, or SotH, or Skrimishing(5) Tail Wind, or Quickening Screech (Birds)
- huge damage and support like SotH, or SotW with MS-XI SotB
Grab some heal gear alongside SotW.
There are some Traits that effect your pets regeneration too…
- BM12 Natural Healing
- Skirmishing7 Carnivorous Appetite

Activate a signet is more like pressing a panic button,
except SotH and SotW can be used more aggressive / offensive.
Most signets work well even without MS-XI Signet of Beastmastery.

Oh, and I almost forget to point out SoS …
This skill can be a life saver and a few professions only can get invulnerable via command.
Rangers can fight while SoS is active not like the Mist Form of dropping ele’s.

I had no problems to kill enemies in tpvp and now I can capture points even when signets are activated and I can use them more often \o/
Signets effects where good but with the shorter CD and fixes its even better.
Today and yesterday signet CDs feels just perfect to me.

misterdevious.6482:

Sigil of Intelligence + Signet of the Hunt + Signet of the Beastmaster is kinda fun.

Start the fight with a guaranteed crit +150% damage Maul, and then during the fight save the active Signet of the Hunt until I swap back to Greatsword for another guaranteed crit +150% damage Maul. Because these big hits are guaranteed, I can lose some Precision and mix in Cavalier or Valkyrie that keeps the high power and crit-damage but adds in some defense.

Had this for awhile, but now with the other changes I am more likely to actually trigger the other signets and get the +25% damage.

Don’t forget moment of clarity, you can always 150% maul after an interrupt.

I just made an entirely new build to try out signets in WvW. I went and spent 2k badges on Carrion gear, added Earth runes I think they are(?) that give you protection and toughness, swapped from bows to Axe/Dagger + Sword/Horn and traited 30/0/30/0/10. Took all signet traits in Marksman, Renewal Offhand Training and Barkskin in WS and I can’t remember what in BM.

I have to get use to the weapon set, and I’m sure that my gear isn’t the best it could be… but I didn’t want to drop more than 30 gold on an experiment. Overall I’m pretty happy with what the signets do for you. With the shorter cooldowns I feel like I am cycling through Stone/Hunt/Wild effects multiple times in each encounter… which means I am doing a lot less damage but also surviving a lot longer I guess since most fights were over a lot quicker in either direction before.

I also like that I can run inside a castle, swap my Marksman traits to steady focus / piercing arrows / eagle eye, pull out the bows and start defending from the walls without losing too much. I really miss the 50%+ crit chance, I might try swapping to different jewelry to try to up it a bit. I get up near 30% with fury, but it’s just not what I’m use to.

Will give this a week or two and see how it feels, may go back to zerker backline stuff in the end, but it’s fun so far and I approve the signet portion of this patch for sure!

Pet AI improvements I’m not really seeing though… my pet still runs off all the time, takes forever to catch up to me when I jump off of something and gets in front of me when we are traveling. It’s nice that he doesn’t aggro stuff anymore, but I have a feeling that is going to change back because you can twist that to your advantage so easily that it just feels wrong.

Khayoss.2019:

…

lyssa runes have the best effect for carrion gear and 15 points in shirmishing.
I run this gear as catssassin with GS and Axe + Dagger (30-20-0-0-20) in pvp.

For 30 points in WS I was using rune of the krait and more bleeding duration via sigils.

addition: not lyssa only but all precision and crit dmg runes

Zenith.7301:

Ele fire signet gives a 10 second burn 30 sec cd active, and when in passive grants a whopping 9% extra crit chance. That’s pretty big.

-shrug-
If I wanted crit chance, I just lean on my sigil of intelligence and/or arcane power for guaranteed crits. Burning is good on a condition build which is why I do like that signet for that. For a direct crit build, I pass.

Signet of earth is pretty standard on scepter builds as the root helps land a wallop with Dragon’s Tooth, and it gives them 180 toughness to boot. Signet of water is the same as our signet of renewal except for the active, which is lower cd to compensate for their lesser effect.

I like Arcane skills better. Or even Glyphs. You can get better immobilize elsewhere but it’s nice. And, in the past, Signet of Water was just overshadowed by pretty much every other condition removal you can get….Focus earth, staff and dagger water, water attunement, regen, ether renewal…that could change now but the active is pretty bad.

The reason eles don’t use their signets is not because their signets are bad — it’s because other combinations are even better. What’s bad on eles is the elementals and the glyphs and some conjures.

Differing opinions then. I like glyphs. Some have their place to shine but overall situational. Same with Conjures. Signets, on the other hand, are more like extra attacks that happen to buff you if you don’t use them (or have a certain trait)…but Elementalist isn’t strapped for ‘attacks’. Their different weapons all fulfill what the signets do. Blind? The weapons have blinds. Burn? So many traits and skills burn. Chill? Same. Immobilize? While there are only a few skills that do and not for as long, it’s also not uncommon if you trait for something like immobilize on arcane skills which could turn instant high damage skills or AoEs into immobilizes.

My opinion is, Ele signets are just underwhelming as they provide pretty much the same thing as your weapons do. I’m hoping they buff up the actives to make them more entertaining.

Ranger signets on the other hand are complete garbage without 30 points into the crappiest traitline rangers have.

People complain about SoS active, but to have it you’re giving up wilderness survival or pet damage. It’s just not worth it because most BM bunker rangers run condi builds and investment into a power line is just bad.

Ranger power builds in general are terrible because they have no way of dealing with boon abusers besides condition specs.

-shrug-

I like the traitline myself. I just run a simple tankerish build with healing power and toughness and a bit of vitality. It works for me in dungeons where I pretty much just face-tank mobs and let my pet do most of the damage. Signets help the pet do more damage and can also help me survive, the extra damage it gives me is rather a consequence of the build as it doesn’t improve my lower damage by much.

thefantasticg.3984:

Nope, still ain’t using signets. I lose too much in other skill lines to make the active signets useful… still.

How do y’all that use signets have your traits lined up?

Here is my signet build that I have been using for a good few weeks now and absolutely love, especially after the latest patch with the reduced cool downs. Requires a certain play style and learning when to activate the signets, but it’s a lot of fun playing in bursts, i.e. longbow attacks at range, suddenly switching to greatsword to apply more pressure and then retreating back to range if need be.

http://gw2buildcraft.com/calculator/ranger/?6.4|1.1g.h4|3.1g.h17|1c.7r.1c.7r.1c.7r.1c.7r.1c.7r.1c.7r|2s.0.21j.0.31j.0.21k.0.31k.0.2s.0|u4ab.0.k4a.k59.0|16.8|4i.4x.4p.4r.54|e

Depending on the situation I swap Eagle Eye for Piercing Arrows when in WvW and for Spotter in Dungeons/Fractals. Also when roaming in WvW with my group I will use Signet of the Hunt and then swap back to Muddy Terrain before engaging with the enemy. If you’re roaming for small fights like 1v1’s or 1v2’s then you’ll probably want to keep SotH to activate the damage buff and combine it with Maul. You can obviously change the armour runes and food, but I mainly play WvW and find the -condition duration to really help my survivability.

Leo G.4501:

Wanderer.5471:

only when ranger and pet are taken together is a ranger as powerful as another class, so when a signet effects both, that’s 100% effectiveness as with other classes, it’s no more effective just because it effects two entities, as the individual entities are less powerful.

Sounds like a bunch of hearsay and guessing.

It’s an accepted fact that rangers are only only as powerful as other classes with a pet! It’s built into their class abilities and damage, i don;t know how anyone could argue this!

Dojo.1867:

Wanderer.5471:

Dojo.1867:

.Ranger signet effects are far stronger compared to other classes because they were designed to do what they do for the pet.

No, they were designed to work for both when traited; it’s not like the developers intended the ability to only work on pets then the players created the signet of the beastmaster trait!

No but when they finished implementing the signet of the beastmaster they saw how much they kittened it up and were like “welp lets just double the cooldown on ranger signets”. I still remember bw1 and believe me. It went down exactly like that.

I remember bw1 too and i don’t remember the devs making the thought processes behind their decisions public. And if what you say is true they wouldn’t have just halved ranger signet cooldowns in the patch!