Guild Wars 2

-> new spirit added

Why does arenanet just do their own thing and not listen at all. Rangers don’t like that passive kitten. Yes, there are exceptions but instead of atleast limiting the amount of spirits to the way it is now you even add more?

Do you listen at all?

That being said despite all the changes you did you fail to remove the horrible trait that puts spirit efficiency from 3.5% to 7%. I mean how OBVIOUS can a badly designed trait be. There is no way to limit build variety harder than making stupid adept tier must have traits whenever you run the corresponding utility skill.

This makes me think there is no hope for this game.

Only spirit I will run is frost spirit for the passive bonus and thats in dungeons…. like COF p1 where class doesn’t matter that much.

Sorry, but other than the passive on frost spirit in dungeons, spirits suck worse than a turbocharged hoover on meth. Of course, they only suck if you care about actually doing damage.

Want to make spirits worth a kitten ? Make them EXACTLY like warrior banners.

EDIT: Speaking strictly from PVE/Dungeon PoV as I don’t WVW/s/tPVP.

I like spirits. I’m not sure how many people there are like me nor am I sure how many people there are like you who do not like spirits. I am sure that ANet would have more data than the two of us.

It’s fine to disagree with the decision, as always.

My issue isn’t that they picked a spirit. I don’t like any class that forces you into taking one of the features (signets, spirits, traps, beastmaster) at the expense of the others. Remember the stealth ubercat? That was just as annoying! Likewise, if I had to take piercing arrows to make ANY bow build work, that too would get old fast. It should make it better but not be necessary.

This spirit provides a really good new type of heal. Looking at hps misses the greater picture of how many seconds. Healing spring backloads regen and starts with only a modest heal. This skill frontloads regen and then allows you to get a bigger heal on demand later.

PLUS, if you trait Nature’s Vengance you can get an “extra” heal. I tend to need that extra heal under the same circumstances that would cause the spirit to die anyway.
At worst, I know I get an extra heal and when it is coming.

Want to know what really gets under my skin is not a new spirit but the fact that we have so few condition removers that it is really hard to build without empathic bond which is 30 in Wilderness Survival. That would be my pet peeve.

+1 for spirit appreciation, the exception being Storm Spirits’ passive.

Bombsaway.7198:

This spirit provides a really good new type of heal. Looking at hps misses the greater picture of how many seconds. Healing spring backloads regen and starts with only a modest heal. This skill frontloads regen and then allows you to get a bigger heal on demand later.

PLUS, if you trait Nature’s Vengance you can get an “extra” heal. I tend to need that extra heal under the same circumstances that would cause the spirit to die anyway.
At worst, I know I get an extra heal and when it is coming.

To each their own and such, but my issue with spirits isn’t that they’re useless, but that they’re mind-numbingly boring. You set it, forget it, and then most likely just spam 1 on your shortbow. Oh, the excitement! That the new spirit heal may be good or useful seems to me entirely beside the point.

I don’t like spirit ranger but viability > enjoyment when you play to win.

I dislike spirits mainly because their passive effects are what preparations from Guild Wars 1 could potentially be in this game, but are instead attached to a killable entity.

That being said, I will be integrating Sun Spirit into my build on December 10th, which will more than likely be this: http://gw2skills.net/editor/?fMAQNAV8fjEVl19VKWgWCiVBB1ekp+jpXh07UUKSVwmK-jUCBIOCy0CwkHBKPqIaslhFRjVfETtCQxaR1eFER1A-w

Honestly though, depending on how that initially works out, I might opt for just going with the straight up 0/0/30/25/15 “old school” build, since with Mighty Swap, you and your pet can potentially have perma 3 stacks of might AND an additional 5% damage on top of that. Though I’m sure with Mighty Swap and 10 in Marksmanship, it’s about the same amount of damage output from you as the player (the pet probably does more in the second setup).

Still, Sun Spirit is basically our own version of Dhuumfire/Incendiary Powder, but with no precision investment needed. It seems worthwhile to incorporate it into a BM styled build.

Also, 0/0/30/20/20 could be worthwhile to pick up Vigorous Training, since WS 5 is getting nerfed down to 25% endurance regen.

I don’t mind spirits (in spvp) they give decent buffs and yadda yadda yadda.

But I do wish there were more builds available to rangers in spvp. BM bunker is kitten poor damage compared to engi bunker. Longbow power/crit is laughable compared to thief s/d or d/p. And traps are like a well necros kittened brother.

Only reason spirits are acceptable is the team bonus.

I don’t know why people play spirits so passively. I tend to constantly use my actives to cc or slow down groups or blind when I see a big windup animation.

And you still have your pet and weapon skills.

I know you can create a build that is passive, but that is just a bad build IMHO for spirits.

jcbroe.4329:

I dislike spirits mainly because their passive effects are what preparations from Guild Wars 1 could potentially be in this game, but are instead attached to a killable entity.

This.

We dont like spirits because they die (very very easily). Because they dont travel with us innately. Its like being a totem shaman in wow, except your 1hp totems have no damage avoidance and are on long &$# cooldowns. Makes no sense except to serve as a frustrating un-enjoyable game mechanic.

They should be auras that radiate out from the ranger. The active effect should be centered on the ranger.

The end.

Spirits are a great mechanic done horribly wrong though. That 10 second effect recharge for something only alive 10 seconds is awful.

The biggest problem with spirits is that you have to trait for things which should be innate. I have the same problem with traps.

I have a very basic guideline. If you wouldn’t use the abilities (spirits, traps etc) without THE trait (NOT without SOME trait), then it should be looked at in terms of making it innate.

I mean really, you need to trait to have them move? You know this should be innate when I have yet to see someone seriously play spirits without the trait.

More HPs INNATE.
Greater chance to hit TRAIT.
Moves with us INNATE
Blast on Death and Bigger Radius TRAIT.

That way you easily could use a spirit without traiting or going up in nature.

Traps (My assumption is that untraited traps just don’t do enough damage)
The increased condition duration (INNATE)
Throw Traps (TRAIT but can it be a bit farther please?)
Radius increase (TRAIT but can we trait to hit 10 v 5 plz with this trait????)
Reduced Cooldowns (TRAIT but add a second ability like an ability to decide when the trap goes off by pressing the trap key after it is set).

I use spirits regularly. Every now and then i take a build heavy into Nature Magic. Not even then i take spirits unbound. Heck, apart from the cookie-cutter Spirit build i never found that trait appealing and even that one didn’t have much mileage with me…

See i tend to lean more to melee and even with Spiritual Knowledge trait, spirits don’t withstand much punishment in the fray of combat so being immoble is a plus. After much error eventually i got around picking them spots safe for spirits.

You should try a combo i pull all the time with a sword:
Cast spirit dive in and deliver the pain, during the fight i see the spirit cooldown about to run out i save up
Hornet sting,
Cast spirit away from the melee danger zone,
Use Monarch leap after the spirit is in safe spot.

So please don’t take this sort of tricks away from me.-

Its what jcbroe said actually..With the new spirit heal and the nerf to sun and storm spirit i think Anet is trying to make spirit build more supportive..They try to remove the offense and add more support.

In spvp the spirit build had survivability, offense and group support..I think its pretty logical to remove some of the offense and increase the support.

Still in this game i dont know if it worth to go support, the only support class i know is Guardian and only cause of aoe stability they give..

So Rangers should provide something else equal to aoe stability to be taken instead of a Guardian..Its a tough task cause it can be OP in other aspects of the game easily.

In the other hand they must increase the offense of other builds to not restrain Rangers in one build-role.From the changes i can see that Rangers wont have any other role, we will be worse than a Mesmer, Ele, thief in term of raw dmg-survivability…Those classes have many options into going in, deliver the burst and then draw back…Rangers must play totally perfect to do this, one little mistake and you are totally dead.No blinks, no immunities, nothing..

We will have to wait and see what this healing spirit can do…If it scales well with healing power i can see some potentials..We will see

I never use spirits…… For me it’s me, my bow and my pet!

They have done the same for thieves. The players don’t appreciate venoms so we will give them more venoms so they will appreciate them more.

I’m guessing this means that they don’t think a spirit/venom build does enough to make the traits worthwhile therefore adding more spirit/venom skills will make a build viable. It still leaves a whole load of skills that are poor without traits.

Ariete makes a good point. Spirits die far more often when you try to get into melee combat or not be backline.

In that case, it is often better to place a spirit that is immobile (like a trap) and count on the passive. Only if the enemy gets close do you activate it.

In that case, you are relying more on the passive than the active.

I tend to play backline mid-range attacks. I will run in intentionally with my spirits just to setoff the actives, then run back out still providing passives (usually they live that long).

Absolutely, many playstyles would do better having the spirits placed so they don’t take as much damage and that means make them immobile.

Gotta agree with a lot of the spirit sentiments.

GW had preparations and spirits. The difference is that they were both much more creative than our spirits in GW2. Mostly because they could be used in synergy with other spirits/preparations for some interesting results.

GW2 spirits are far too drop & forget, and have such small effective range that they’re often placed in the line of fire. If, by chance, they don’t die and you move on, you have to wait way too long to resummon them. They need a sacrifice option so you can force the recharge.

The spirit traits don’t enhance them from useful to awesome. Instead, they enhance them from rubbish to useful. They’re never awesome.

You can sacrifice a spirit easily by just changing the utility out with another skill then back (assuming out of combat).

Drop and forget is great for the passives and the range isn’t bad for them.
The actives are every bit as big as traps and a lot of the crowd control is similar. Downside is the spirit can die.

Kinda related.

Tooltip says cooldown 10 secs. Can the effect only proc once every 10 secs or the aura refresh 10 secs?

If they made the spirit a permanent “pet” that followed you around and took no damage that actually buffed you and your allies.. I don’t think people would have a problem with it.

People begin to have a problem with it when it dies within a few seconds of activating it. This makes them nearly pointless 90% of the time.

I get why people want spirits to take no damage. It would be fun.
But they really don’t die as quickly with a little spirit management.

Placement helps.
Dropping them when you need them vs having them follow you all the time (even with unbound) helps.
Realizing that many times NOT having them follow you is more valuable if you just want the passive helps.
Learning to kill them by switching skills helps.

There are times where the spirits die quickly. Classic example is siege. This is also a classic example of when not to pull out spirits until you need the actives or get into the thick of combat.

Spirits are very much support focused but too often rangers try to make them about ranger damage.

Bombsaway.7198:

You can sacrifice a spirit easily by just changing the utility out with another skill then back (assuming out of combat).

Didn’t know this. Thanks for the tip.
Still, it’s clumsy to have to do this rather than the skill allowing it with a single button press.