Guild Wars 2

Hey guys,

I was deep in a fight club last night, and I met a lot of players that astounded me. One was a ranger that seemed impossible to kill. The ranger referred to his build as perma regen, but I still don’t see that as enough survivability to live through my hits as well as he did. I know he used 1h axe and dagger, and I know dagger has an evade and axe has a chill, but I still don’t get how he survived so well. It’s like nothing I did was enough to kill him. What’s strange is I found out later he lost to a necromancer using a pet/condition build that just blew him up. Can someone give me some knowledge on how to fight this type of ranger?

Thanks

If your signature is correct. You are a Guardian.

Based on my experience using the “Perma Regen” build, your kitten outta luck. Guardian does not have enough tools to defeat a Perma Regen Ranger.

A necro can overwhelm a Ranger with conditions, Poison being the most important one in order to defeat the perma regen build. Furthermore, conditions still tick though dodges and evades which we have plenty of.

He probably had high toughness and healing power (pvp: Shaman, WvW: Apothecary/Settlers). Conditions by-pass Toughness though.
He probably did have the regeneration boon up the whole time. Healing spring has it as well as Nature’s Voice trait and of course Dwayna Runes. He may have had high boon duration runes instead.
So, Regeneration, Signet of the Wild (and mango pie food in WvW) and high toughness and healing power does make him very survivable against power-based builds.
You say he was using mainhand axe. It doesn’t only Chill, it also causes the pet to apply Weakness, but again, it only works against power/crit builds. He may have used a Cave Spider to give you even more weakness.

I’m not surprised he could have melted away against a condition necro. You need a lot of condition removal for that and Vitality rather than Toughness. Poison also cuts down on the effectiveness of his healing power. And weakness doesn’t affect condition damage.

What class are you? The guardian in your sig?

Regen is low, but if you aren’t running a high serker burst guardian, your damage is pretty low. In duels, Rangers often run Troll Ungent as well which gives a lot of health per second with only a small downtime between casts. This is when the Ranger would use his evades and such.

The Necro destroyed him because he was probably still running Troll Ungent which meant he had limited condition removal and his damage relies heavily on conditions himself, which a Necro will wipe constantly.

Thank you for the info guys. I am a guardian and I’m focused on heavy damage. I felt weak hitting him though, and i want some advice on ways to counter the build with my current set up

Perma regen only works well against professions who lack poison and/or stuns/cc (guardian lacks both). His main strategy was to probably keep 100% weakness up time on you (axe #3 gives the pet the ability to apply a 10s weakness on next hit) while constantly dealing marginal damage and saving dagger #4 to avoid any potential burst.

What you could do with the current setup… Luckily, I play a lot of guardian, and a similar build at that (although more tanky). First, you are going to need to be careful of the axe #3. It doesn’t matter if it hits you or misses, the pet gets the buff to apply weakness (which cripples your dps horribly). When you see the weakness, you need to cleanse it if you plan to attack. Second, your mobility is trash compared to his overall. You probably will need to run multiple gap closers so then when the opportunity presents itself, you can take full advantage of it (judges intervention is probably a must). You can actually heal quite a bit if you go for a monk’s focus meditation build (which are the stronger 1v1 builds guardian has imo), so if you aren’t doing that, I would recommend it.

As for attacking, going straight in for a whirling wrath combo isn’t going to fly. Every ranger with half a brain will probably just dodge roll backwards and save their dagger evade for something more important. You need to force their hand with constant pressure and watch how many evades they blow. If you ever see them do a double dodge and dagger evade in close proximity, your time to strike is now. However, keeping this pressure won’t be easy unless you want to use scepter/x. Going double melee against a ranger is a bad idea unless you are a stunlock warrior because you simply won’t be able to hold them in place long enough to deal any significant damage.

Another thing to look out for is something I think the ranger is one of the best professions at, and that is shifting the momentum of the fight. If you dive too deep to fight one and don’t pay too much attention to his pet, you can get caught in a nasty combination of cc and condition dumping. However, you can’t dps the pet either against decent rangers because as soon as you start doing that you leave yourself incredibly vulnerable for a counter offensive from the ranger.

In summary, it is all about action and reaction when fighting a ranger. The first person to make a mistake tends to suffer for it. Be careful of his pet (stay mobile) and keep pressure on him/her while bringing enough condition cleansing so that you don’t eat long duration poisons and weaknesses.

Indoles.1467:

Perma regen only works well against professions who lack poison and/or stuns/cc (guardian lacks both). His main strategy was to probably keep 100% weakness up time on you (axe #3 gives the pet the ability to apply a 10s weakness on next hit) while constantly dealing marginal damage and saving dagger #4 to avoid any potential burst.

What you could do with the current setup… Luckily, I play a lot of guardian, and a similar build at that (although more tanky). First, you are going to need to be careful of the axe #3. It doesn’t matter if it hits you or misses, the pet gets the buff to apply weakness (which cripples your dps horribly). When you see the weakness, you need to cleanse it if you plan to attack. Second, your mobility is trash compared to his overall. You probably will need to run multiple gap closers so then when the opportunity presents itself, you can take full advantage of it (judges intervention is probably a must). You can actually heal quite a bit if you go for a monk’s focus meditation build (which are the stronger 1v1 builds guardian has imo), so if you aren’t doing that, I would recommend it.

As for attacking, going straight in for a whirling wrath combo isn’t going to fly. Every ranger with half a brain will probably just dodge roll backwards and save their dagger evade for something more important. You need to force their hand with constant pressure and watch how many evades they blow. If you ever see them do a double dodge and dagger evade in close proximity, your time to strike is now. However, keeping this pressure won’t be easy unless you want to use scepter/x. Going double melee against a ranger is a bad idea unless you are a stunlock warrior because you simply won’t be able to hold them in place long enough to deal any significant damage.

Another thing to look out for is something I think the ranger is one of the best professions at, and that is shifting the momentum of the fight. If you dive too deep to fight one and don’t pay too much attention to his pet, you can get caught in a nasty combination of cc and condition dumping. However, you can’t dps the pet either against decent rangers because as soon as you start doing that you leave yourself incredibly vulnerable for a counter offensive from the ranger.

In summary, it is all about action and reaction when fighting a ranger. The first person to make a mistake tends to suffer for it. Be careful of his pet (stay mobile) and keep pressure on him/her while bringing enough condition cleansing so that you don’t eat long duration poisons and weaknesses.

Wow!!! Thank you for this incredible advice. I’d like to start off by saying I’ve looked into meditations, but they lack boons, which I believe make my build work the most. The HP gain from meditations isn’t bad, but I have less frequent condition cleanses with meditations, and my survivability without the protection boon goes down a whole lot. I’d appreciate it if you could give me some advice on making meditations work for me.

I never thought about the weakness condition, and that must be the reason my usually high hits were so low! I’ll have to watch my surroundings closely when I see 1h axe in main-hand from now on. Is there an animation that goes along with the #3 axe attack?

Thank you again! I’m going to focus condition cleansing on the weakness condition from now on

Yea pay attention closely to the axe attack that has a blue axe/blue trail on it, that’s the #3 axe attack and is very powerful now that it’s been buffed in recent patch.

If they’re running canines, it’s imperative to pay attention to when they do a howl animation and they look like they’re ‘crouching back’ , theyre about to leap and knock you down which does a pretty fair amount of damage especially when it crits.

What Ryan said is accurate. All I can really recommend is getting -40% condition duration food and hoelbrak runes which will gives you a total of -60% condition duration while still giving you some dps. You really can’t hope to beat the ranger unless he makes some serious mistakes because that is just the way the current meta works, but you can go for a draw. I know that sounds silly but his build in particular is such a counter to most guardians (like I said earlier guardian has, no poison, little cc, few conditions) that you really just can’t win. And I’ll catch some heat for this, but the ranger really shouldn’t be losing to Necros either. Then again, his build probably sacrifices too much offense for defense that doesn’t work well against Necros in particular.

Indoles.1467:

What Ryan said is accurate. All I can really recommend is getting -40% condition duration food and hoelbrak runes which will gives you a total of -60% condition duration while still giving you some dps. You really can’t hope to beat the ranger unless he makes some serious mistakes because that is just the way the current meta works, but you can go for a draw. I know that sounds silly but his build in particular is such a counter to most guardians (like I said earlier guardian has, no poison, little cc, few conditions) that you really just can’t win. And I’ll catch some heat for this, but the ranger really shouldn’t be losing to Necros either. Then again, his build probably sacrifices too much offense for defense that doesn’t work well against Necros in particular.

You aren’t going to catch that much about the necros vs rangers thing, it’s actually a pretty even fight, depending on the build. Rangers have all the necessary tools to win out against necros, but necros also have all the necessary tools they need to overpower and beat the ranger. It’s definitely a matchup the relies more on player skill than build composition.

As for the thread, I honestly can’t add anything more, other than on my Guardian, I prefer Staff for my ranged support. Of course, I’m also running an AH build, so staff makes sense in my build.

jcbroe.4329:

Indoles.1467:

What Ryan said is accurate. All I can really recommend is getting -40% condition duration food and hoelbrak runes which will gives you a total of -60% condition duration while still giving you some dps. You really can’t hope to beat the ranger unless he makes some serious mistakes because that is just the way the current meta works, but you can go for a draw. I know that sounds silly but his build in particular is such a counter to most guardians (like I said earlier guardian has, no poison, little cc, few conditions) that you really just can’t win. And I’ll catch some heat for this, but the ranger really shouldn’t be losing to Necros either. Then again, his build probably sacrifices too much offense for defense that doesn’t work well against Necros in particular.

You aren’t going to catch that much about the necros vs rangers thing, it’s actually a pretty even fight, depending on the build. Rangers have all the necessary tools to win out against necros, but necros also have all the necessary tools they need to overpower and beat the ranger. It’s definitely a matchup the relies more on player skill than build composition.

As for the thread, I honestly can’t add anything more, other than on my Guardian, I prefer Staff for my ranged support. Of course, I’m also running an AH build, so staff makes sense in my build.

Most experienced players know that about ranger vs necro, but the inexperienced cry, “Necro op! Fear chain! Condi burst!” and would lash out at me for even mentioning something like this with remarks about how bad the pet is or something. Staff is a viable option, I almost included it. The only issue I find with it in 1v1 is the lack of any cc outside of a 40s ward which doesn’t really count since it doesn’t help you land your other skills very much. But yeah, I think I covered just about everything a guardian can do. I should add Traveler runes as a viable option to Hoelbrak.

Indoles.1467:

jcbroe.4329:

Indoles.1467:

What Ryan said is accurate. All I can really recommend is getting -40% condition duration food and hoelbrak runes which will gives you a total of -60% condition duration while still giving you some dps. You really can’t hope to beat the ranger unless he makes some serious mistakes because that is just the way the current meta works, but you can go for a draw. I know that sounds silly but his build in particular is such a counter to most guardians (like I said earlier guardian has, no poison, little cc, few conditions) that you really just can’t win. And I’ll catch some heat for this, but the ranger really shouldn’t be losing to Necros either. Then again, his build probably sacrifices too much offense for defense that doesn’t work well against Necros in particular.

You aren’t going to catch that much about the necros vs rangers thing, it’s actually a pretty even fight, depending on the build. Rangers have all the necessary tools to win out against necros, but necros also have all the necessary tools they need to overpower and beat the ranger. It’s definitely a matchup the relies more on player skill than build composition.

As for the thread, I honestly can’t add anything more, other than on my Guardian, I prefer Staff for my ranged support. Of course, I’m also running an AH build, so staff makes sense in my build.

Most experienced players know that about ranger vs necro, but the inexperienced cry, “Necro op! Fear chain! Condi burst!” and would lash out at me for even mentioning something like this with remarks about how bad the pet is or something. Staff is a viable option, I almost included it. The only issue I find with it in 1v1 is the lack of any cc outside of a 40s ward which doesn’t really count since it doesn’t help you land your other skills very much. But yeah, I think I covered just about everything a guardian can do. I should add Traveler runes as a viable option to Hoelbrak.

Yeah you got everything lol.

I only use staff on a AH build, for the healing more than anything. It’s a good keep away support weapon to kind of just kite around and get some breathing room, but it wouldn’t be the crux of the build, and Scepter is much more valuable to a DPS build.

The particular build that actually made me think of suggesting it is how VoTF seems to run their Guardians, which is like a Soldiers/Zerkers mix AH/Shout build with Greatsword/Staff. Then again, their builds are more meant for grouping than solo, so the staff really has to be evaluated player to player to see how valuable it is for what they’re doing.

Good stuff though, by the way. I came into the topic and was like “well, I’m not really needed here” lol.

The perma regen ranger also likely has high armor (apothecary/settler’s), so it is tough for you to get his hp down as you don’t have the burst.

On the other hand, in a fight of more than 10 people, he is next to useless and you are very valuable (depending on your build).

Here’s a perma regen ranger build that I’ve been using for a while. The only necessary traits are Nature’s voice, Shout mastery, and Nature’s bounty. The rest comes down to personal preference. To play, just keep guard on cool down. Use Sic ’em when burst is needed. A bonus is that you also get perma swiftness too. Dodging to remove poison and keeping healing at max is icing on the cake.

Enjoy!

http://gw2skills.net/editor/?fMAQNAsYRnEV0FcVQKWwaZAppQTskniZJWcPGlOJEPZFTqF-jUCBYLERjUgZkEBgKBKLqIas1NFRjVxATpiIq2poIa1A-w

Indoles.1467:

What Ryan said is accurate. All I can really recommend is getting -40% condition duration food and hoelbrak runes which will gives you a total of -60% condition duration while still giving you some dps. You really can’t hope to beat the ranger unless he makes some serious mistakes because that is just the way the current meta works, but you can go for a draw. I know that sounds silly but his build in particular is such a counter to most guardians (like I said earlier guardian has, no poison, little cc, few conditions) that you really just can’t win. And I’ll catch some heat for this, but the ranger really shouldn’t be losing to Necros either. Then again, his build probably sacrifices too much offense for defense that doesn’t work well against Necros in particular.

I believe I’m the ranger in question here Mes HawksEyes. What most folks have said is right. This build played well is kind of the bone ANet threw rangers for roaming. It’s OP against every class I play against except that necro. And the quoted text above is right. I sacrificed too much offense for defence in my duels against the necro. Most necros I do not have an issue with but he had me down and I refused to adjust. I was running entangle which was a big mistake instead of rampage as one. I also had my melandru set off and was running rune of the grove. To his credit though he beat me with skill and I failed to counter effectively. And as the other person said this is pure roaming. When it gets into massive zergs I am aware that this build does not bring as much to the table in damage or support as many other classes/builds.

As far as gear goes I have full apothecary and settlers that I run a mix of with separate sets of runes. I switch off hands from time to time but I prefer Sword/Dagger. I know I know sword/torch is better. But I run what I’m comfortable with

I’ll post a link of running this build in a second.

HawksEyes of Abyss

Condi necros are tricky

Simple tip for condi necros: Most do a fear + spite combo… Slot lightning reflexes for that combo alone. It breaks the fear and evades the spite combo. Bait the fear, wait for the yellow signet pop over his head then within 3/4 seconds pop LR.

Main things to look for when fighting a condi necro atleast:

1. green reaper above their head – is a fear cast, dodge it if you can
2. yellow signet looking pop over their head – this is the signet of spite active cast, you have 3/4 seconds to dodge that , if you don’t you’ll have alot of conditions on you.
3. most run the pet knockdown elite , watch for when he rushes at you, you can dodge it if you’re quick and on your feet
4. most run marks, specifically , look for the mark with the green smoke coming out of the middle, this is a fear mark
5. RUN ROOTS and wait till they’ve blasted their heal already , then pop it. its usually their only condi removal. if you run RaO , they’ll usually just convert it condi anyway. the spirit elite also isn’t bad in a scenario vs a condi necro either.

—

power necros, run 30 marks and slot the signet of stone and the signet affects you trait and slot heal as one (their burst counters the regen ticks on troll) for the short cooldown, having a high burst heal with low cooldown is pretty good against power necros, dance with them until they get semi-low and bait their lich form , while in lich form , eat a couple attacks then pop signet of stone and try to burst down as fast as possible. good power necros are pretty tough to kill in my experiences of fighting some of the best ones in wvw. you have to pop signet of stone while youre bursting, lich form is essentially ‘their gimmick’. if you can survive it and have a heal afterwards, you’ve pretty much won the fight unless you mess up horribly.

or just outheal him and let your dps pet kill him :p

Ryan.8367:

Condi necros are tricky

Simple tip for condi necros: Most do a fear + spite combo… Slot lightning reflexes for that combo alone. It breaks the fear and evades the spite combo. Bait the fear, wait for the yellow signet pop over his head then within 3/4 seconds pop LR.

Main things to look for when fighting a condi necro atleast:

1. green reaper above their head – is a fear cast, dodge it if you can
2. yellow signet looking pop over their head – this is the signet of spite active cast, you have 3/4 seconds to dodge that , if you don’t you’ll have alot of conditions on you.
3. most run the pet knockdown elite , watch for when he rushes at you, you can dodge it if you’re quick and on your feet
4. most run marks, specifically , look for the mark with the green smoke coming out of the middle, this is a fear mark
5. RUN ROOTS and wait till they’ve blasted their heal already , then pop it. its usually their only condi removal. if you run RaO , they’ll usually just convert it condi anyway. the spirit elite also isn’t bad in a scenario vs a condi necro either.

—

power necros, run 30 marks and slot the signet of stone and the signet affects you trait and slot heal as one (their burst counters the regen ticks on troll) for the short cooldown, having a high burst heal with low cooldown is pretty good against power necros, dance with them until they get semi-low and bait their lich form , while in lich form , eat a couple attacks then pop signet of stone and try to burst down as fast as possible. good power necros are pretty tough to kill in my experiences of fighting some of the best ones in wvw. you have to pop signet of stone while youre bursting, lich form is essentially ‘their gimmick’. if you can survive it and have a heal afterwards, you’ve pretty much won the fight unless you mess up horribly.

Ryan thank you very much for your in depth response. I appreciate your taking the time to help out. I will be looking for all those signs you mentioned at the next fight club. Hopefully your knowledgable input just upped my game a little.

Hawk

SubAce.9863:

Indoles.1467:

What Ryan said is accurate. All I can really recommend is getting -40% condition duration food and hoelbrak runes which will gives you a total of -60% condition duration while still giving you some dps. You really can’t hope to beat the ranger unless he makes some serious mistakes because that is just the way the current meta works, but you can go for a draw. I know that sounds silly but his build in particular is such a counter to most guardians (like I said earlier guardian has, no poison, little cc, few conditions) that you really just can’t win. And I’ll catch some heat for this, but the ranger really shouldn’t be losing to Necros either. Then again, his build probably sacrifices too much offense for defense that doesn’t work well against Necros in particular.

I believe I’m the ranger in question here Mes HawksEyes. What most folks have said is right. This build played well is kind of the bone ANet threw rangers for roaming. It’s OP against every class I play against except that necro. And the quoted text above is right. I sacrificed too much offense for defence in my duels against the necro. Most necros I do not have an issue with but he had me down and I refused to adjust. I was running entangle which was a big mistake instead of rampage as one. I also had my melandru set off and was running rune of the grove. To his credit though he beat me with skill and I failed to counter effectively. And as the other person said this is pure roaming. When it gets into massive zergs I am aware that this build does not bring as much to the table in damage or support as many other classes/builds.

As far as gear goes I have full apothecary and settlers that I run a mix of with separate sets of runes. I switch off hands from time to time but I prefer Sword/Dagger. I know I know sword/torch is better. But I run what I’m comfortable with

I’ll post a link of running this build in a second.

HawksEyes of Abyss

Omg! It is you thank you for taking time to respond. You and your krewe really gave me a run for my money