Guild Wars 2

The pet controls in this game are the same controls that have been in effect for pet classes in a number of MMOs over the years. The difference is, our combat requires a different mechanic (Dodge) and thus the Pet should have been modified to suit the new system.

Micro managing does work to an extent but it also severely limits certain types of gameplay in high dps scenarios, such as melee.

TL:DR

It should have been implemented at the start based on the basic mechanics of combat in this game, but I’d settle for it being a trait choice at this point..

Pet’s need the ability to evade when the master dodge rolls.

That’s it…

My pet gets protection when I evade (due to traits)..
It’s not like I can knockdown an enemy when my dog does it either..

What a truly asinine statement. Obviously you don’t do high level fractals, or you’d know that protection doesn’t mean crap when the bosses can 1 shot. Trolls..

Araris.7839:

What a truly asinine statement. Obviously you don’t do high level fractals, or you’d know that protection doesn’t mean crap when the bosses can 1 shot. Trolls..

What a silly comment to think that I can deduce from your oh so extended post that you were referring to specific fractal play?
Also, you don’t heel your pet in fracs?

Have some food, little troll..

This game utilizes the dodge/evade mechanic in all combat scenarios. Because our pet can not utilize this mechanic, they often become fodder for high damage abilitys, often killing them in a single hit.

Just a note for any new players to the game.

Araris.7839:

I understand you’re obviously limited in some way. Allow me to elaborate so you can understand. This game utilizes the dodge/evade mechanic in all combat scenarios. Because our pet can not utilize this mechanic, they often become fodder for high damage abilitys, often killing them in a single hit.

Better?

Better explained (although I’m still missing a specific fractals mention here, oh well), but no reason to be so conceited like you are.. :P

Yeah, pets can’t dodge, true that.. But you do know that we are the only class that has an extra controllable entity, right? We can call our pet back (right before that boss will one-shot) or quickly switch to another.. So with some decent micro managing you can get your pet out of a lot of dire situations.. But once again: When you’re messing with such high DPS enemies, it might be better to have a supportive pet next to you heeled?

Next thing you know some mesmer will start whining that his clones don’t dodge either and get killed while running towards their target before shattering..
;-)

The pet controls in this game are the same controls that have been in effect for pet classes in a number of MMOs over the years. The difference is, our combat requires a different mechanic and thus the Pet should have been modified to suit the new system.

You keep on defending a broken system. Micro managing does work to an extent but it also severely limits certain types of gameplay in high dps scenarios, such as melee.

Your comment on mesmers shows me that you’re not logically thinking this out, the two things are completely different, beginning with the basic concept and recast times. As no other person would usually make that connection, I can only assume you’re attempting to troll and derail this thread.

Won’t be replying to you further. Enjoy.

Tribio.8531:

Araris.7839:

What a truly asinine statement. Obviously you don’t do high level fractals, or you’d know that protection doesn’t mean crap when the bosses can 1 shot. Trolls..

What a silly comment to think that I can deduce from your oh so extended post that you were referring to specific fractal play?
Also, you don’t heel your pet in fracs?

Have some food, little troll..

Dude, pets getting crushed by bosses and AoEs has been a Ranger bane since day one. If you don’t know that you don’t really belong in this forum.

Pets need something, a way to evade, some sort of AoE protection, something. Having to share your evade with your pet, I think, would be acceptable. I think a lot of Rangers wouldn’t like it, but they’re the same ones that want to get rid of their pets anyway. It’s another level of micro management and I’m totally ok with that.

Araris.7839:

You keep on defending a broken system. Micro managing does work to an extent but it also severely limits certain types of gameplay in high dps scenarios, such as melee.

I don’t defend a broken system, I just mention that I have gotten used to it.. Trust me, you don’t want ANet to fix this broken system, or your pet would be nerfed into oblivion..

Your comment on mesmers shows me that you’re not logically thinking this out, the two things are completely different, beginning with the basic concept and recast times.

Agree, and here you say it again: Mesmer completely different than ranger (also, you didn’t notice the ;-) underneath the italic part in my post). So mesmers have clones who cannot dodge and whatever, … And rangers have pets that can’t dodge.. You kinda learn to live with it.. I seriously don’t wanna L2P you here, trust me..

I can only assume you’re attempting to troll and derail this thread.

Have your assumption.. You post a thread asking for input, but when the input is not to your liking, you ditch it? Might be better next time to post your thread in Notepad or so..

Won’t be replying to you further. Enjoy.

And a nice day to you too.. :-)

Kal Spiro.9745:

Dude, pets getting crushed by bosses and AoEs has been a Ranger bane since day one. If you don’t know that you don’t really belong in this forum.

Let me guess, just like Confusion was the zergling’s bane?
Jeezes, with such an array of pets at our disposal (and the knowledge that they are not that tanky by themselves), you should always have a pet either active and hitting or passive and buffing..

Pets need something, a way to evade, some sort of AoE protection, something.

“Any boon you get is shared with your pet”

I think a lot of Rangers wouldn’t like it, but they’re the same ones that want to get rid of their pets anyway. It’s another level of micro management and I’m totally ok with that.

I don’t wanna get rid of my pet, I like it like it is.. But yet I don’t agree with OP here..

I assume I’ll have another one now who won’t be replying to me, but hey, see me care..

I don’t PvE much because I am in a WvW focused guild but if ANet ever introduces raids or more large scale battles, us Rangers are going to have a hard time keeping our DPS up if they don’t figure out a way to keep our pets alive during these large scale encounters.

In Zerg vs Zerg, our pets are going to die fast in any engagement that has 20+ enemies. I don’t know if pet evasion when we dodge roll is going to be enough. My issue is the lack our F2 ability after our pets are die. Us Rangers are good at staying alive but our poor pets we can never use them or their F2.

Last night I did some SPvP hotjoins before I went to sleep and the pet is fine in smaller engagements but the second I run with a zerg of 20+ in WvW, I can only think about the Ranger’s survival and the pet is a little more useful than a mini-pet. I just hope ANet see this issue that we lost access to our F2 abilities all the time during these large battles which is disappointing because our pets have some cool abilities.

Tribio.8531:

Kal Spiro.9745:

Dude, pets getting crushed by bosses and AoEs has been a Ranger bane since day one. If you don’t know that you don’t really belong in this forum.

Let me guess, just like Confusion was the zergling’s bane?

I don’t know what that means.

Jeezes, with such an array of pets at our disposal (and the knowledge that they are not that tanky by themselves), you should always have a pet either active and hitting or passive and buffing..

You should never have your pet on passive, that’s a complete waste of a pet. Some are tanky by themselves, but that’s no different. Because of the mechanics of the game, swapping pets at inappropriate times, or “calling them back” is absurd. If just running out of an AoE, or away from an alpha strike was a legitimate move there would be no reason to even have dodge. The simple fact is that the game is designed to use dodge to avoid hits, but Pets have no access to it. That it a problem because of the very specific design and synergy of a pet for its Ranger.

You obvious use different pets, probably favoring range because they can avoid the mechanic. Simple fact, a workaround is not the answer to a problem, it is a way of dealing with the problem until it’s fixed. Relying on tactics that are suboptimal in order to avoid the blaring deficiency of the system, and sticking to the handful of pets that are able to avoid it doesn’t make the system stop being deficient.

Kal Spiro.9745:

Kal Spiro.9745:

Pets need something, a way to evade, some sort of AoE protection, something.

“Any boon you get is shared with your pet”

In what way does this even approach being a legitimate argument.
1) there is no boon, including protection and aegis that is going to save a pet consistently for any period of time.
2) in order to get this trait at all you have to be running a build that follows that line and actually includes that trait. If this is your answer to the entire problem it means that every other possible build is illegitimate, which completely breaks the very design of the game and the direction the devs built it for.

Kal Spiro.9745:

Kal Spiro.9745:

I think a lot of Rangers wouldn’t like it, but they’re the same ones that want to get rid of their pets anyway. It’s another level of micro management and I’m totally ok with that.

I don’t wanna get rid of my pet, I like it like it is.. But yet I don’t agree with OP here..

I assume I’ll have another one now who won’t be replying to me, but hey, see me care..

Obviously you don’t agree. And your desire to disagree is entirely your right, but if you’re going to voice your disagreement to the point of actually trying to argue why it shouldn’t be the case, have arguments that are in any way legitimate. It’s your complete disregard for reason, logic and the intents behind the design of the game itself that puts me off, but I’m far too stuborn to stop just because you don’t make any sense.

Tribio.8531:

Araris.7839:

Your comment on mesmers shows me that you’re not logically thinking this out, the two things are completely different, beginning with the basic concept and recast times.

Agree, and here you say it again: Mesmer completely different than ranger (also, you didn’t notice the ;-) underneath the italic part in my post). So mesmers have clones who cannot dodge and whatever, … And rangers have pets that can’t dodge.. You kinda learn to live with it.. I seriously don’t wanna L2P you here, trust me..

Um, no, you don’t seem to understand. We’re talking about the difference between a classes unique mechanic and another classes skill set and even weapon set. If our pet dies, we can swap it, if the next one dies a second later we have nothing. If a mesmer clone dies they can summon a phantasm, or another clone, and if that one dies, they can swap weapons and do it again. They have infinately more access to their clones than we have to our pets. We have two pets, only one of which can be active at a time, and if it’s down it’s down. You don’t wanna L2P him? Well how about I L2P you then, because you’re arguing game mechanics that have nothing to do with eachother.

But let me first take out the fuse from this keg: I am not calling anyone here a bad player or so, please understand that.. Also no offence is meant whatsoever in my post..

I don’t know what that means.

Well, because of a lot of QQ about the damage Confusion did, it was nerfed into the ground.. While this mechanic wasn’t broken at all, it just showed that the lesser players always like to complain about something..

You should never have your pet on passive, that’s a complete waste of a pet.
…….
and the direction the devs built it for.

I assume there is a reason that there is an option to keep your pet heeled. And I am quite sure that this option was put in by devs.. Ok, I’m not a supporter of “keep your pet heeled at all time”, but when the situation arises, I’ll do so.. See and react..

You obvious use different pets, probably favoring range because they can avoid the mechanic. Simple fact, a workaround is not the answer to a problem, it is a way of dealing with the problem until it’s fixed.

I use a ranged one (spider) and a melee one (dog), for the record..

In what way does this even approach being a legitimate argument.

You complained about that a ranger has absolutely no means whatsoever to keep his pet alive a bit longer in the heat of battle, I just gave you one..
True, you’ll have to build towards that specific setup, but I guess that’s just how things work, no? You can’t expect to be a glass cannon, tank, supportive healer and puppetmaster at the same time..

It’s your complete disregard for reason, logic and the intents behind the design of the game itself that puts me off, but I’m far too stuborn to stop just because you don’t make any sense.

I do enjoy a nice discussion about something, and I like that you keep fueling it.. But I’m not an unreasonable person and I do master the basics of logic.

Well how about I L2P you then, because you’re arguing game mechanics that have nothing to do with eachother.

Well, how about I L2R you, and show you the nice smiley underneath my mention of those mesmer clones..
It has totally nothing to do with this specific problem, but just wanted to show that each profession has something to complain about their profession-specific skills/tools/… if they want..

The pets used to have no control, and throughout beta were given more an more control by player request. Passive mode was implemented to stop pets from agroing on everything all the time while players ran around. If they had maintained better control of their pets this probably wouldn’t have been a problem, but as you implied, there are a lot of bad players who complain about stupid things. (I don’t concider this to be one of them. I don’t concider this a priority either, but it is an issue that I feel should be addressed.)

Agro rules for pets, though, have since been changed making it less likely that a mob will trigger a pet agro, making it even less necessary to ever put a pet into passive.

So that’s why passive exists. It does not exist so that you can make them ineffectual during an actual fight.

As for your trait argument, no you didn’t. You indicated a trait that is benefitial to the pet, but in NO way saves them from anything. I can save my pet for 4 second with Signet of Stone, that doesn’t change the fact that there is a flaw in the system because they’ll still die from the next attack.

The biggest drawback of the pet is when your group stacks on the boss. You can set the pet to passive, recall it, swap it, heal it, it will die anyway. Do it twice and you will be sitting 30-40secs without a chunk of your dps.
Or you can always range it, keep your pet alive, most likely bad mouthed by your pug and kicked afterwards, because you refused to stack.

You cannot expect your pug-mates of 4 to cater you (1). And the most effective strat on most dungeon/fractal is stacking. The moment your 2nd pet dies, you are not pulling your own weight dps-wise (many will even argue that ranger never pulled his own weight dps-wise).

Unless Anet decides to change things in dungeons and fractals, making every encounter ranged-only, allowing the pet to evade when the master dodges is a good fix. And the cherry on the top, your pet can keep attacking while evading.

Araris.7839:

Pet’s need the ability to evade when the master dodge rolls.

This again… no. Just no. IF pets ever get some form of evade or dodge mechanic, it should NOT be linked to our dodge. I can’t stand this idea that pops up a couple of times per month. It would be a worthless implementation, and it needs to be a lot better than that to be even remotely useful.

Keep the ideas flowing, but PLEASE don’t ask for a mechanic that forces us to dodge to save our pets – we need our dodges for ourselves.

Tribio.8531:

Araris.7839:

I understand you’re obviously limited in some way. Allow me to elaborate so you can understand. This game utilizes the dodge/evade mechanic in all combat scenarios. Because our pet can not utilize this mechanic, they often become fodder for high damage abilitys, often killing them in a single hit.

Better?

Better explained (although I’m still missing a specific fractals mention here, oh well), but no reason to be so conceited like you are.. :P

Yeah, pets can’t dodge, true that.. But you do know that we are the only class that has an extra controllable entity, right? We can call our pet back (right before that boss will one-shot) or quickly switch to another.. So with some decent micro managing you can get your pet out of a lot of dire situations.. But once again: When you’re messing with such high DPS enemies, it might be better to have a supportive pet next to you heeled?

Next thing you know some mesmer will start whining that his clones don’t dodge either and get killed while running towards their target before shattering..
;-)

You’re saying that as if rangers are superior above all else.

OGDeadHead.8326:

Araris.7839:

Pet’s need the ability to evade when the master dodge rolls.

This again… no. Just no. IF pets ever get some form of evade or dodge mechanic, it should NOT be linked to our dodge. I can’t stand this idea that pops up a couple of times per month. It would be a worthless implementation, and it needs to be a lot better than that to be even remotely useful.

Keep the ideas flowing, but PLEASE don’t ask for a mechanic that forces us to dodge to save our pets – we need our dodges for ourselves.

I’ll never understand some people. You do understand that 99.99% of the time if you need your pet to dodge, you should be dodging also, right?

Perhaps you’d prefer an auto dodge for pets, while you keep all your endurance stored for dps?

Listen carefully, the devs are not going to implement something that gives without taking. This is by far the best option to all PvE pet damage issues.

Yes, one day you may need to dodge in order to save your pet while you’re standing in the back spamming range auto attacks, but that’s the price you’ll pay to keep the pet alive.

Araris.7839:

I’ll never understand some people. You do understand that 99.99% of the time if you need your pet to dodge, you should be dodging also, right?

Really now? Sigh…

OGDeadHead.8326:

Araris.7839:

Pet’s need the ability to evade when the master dodge rolls.

This again… no. Just no. IF pets ever get some form of evade or dodge mechanic, it should NOT be linked to our dodge. I can’t stand this idea that pops up a couple of times per month. It would be a worthless implementation, and it needs to be a lot better than that to be even remotely useful.

Keep the ideas flowing, but PLEASE don’t ask for a mechanic that forces us to dodge to save our pets – we need our dodges for ourselves.

That’s the point. This is making your choose, you or your pet. It’s another level of micro management for Rangers to deal with, or ignore. I know for me, though, I’m rarely in a situation where both me and my pet need to be able to dodge, it’s usually just one of us. In those situations I would happily trade off a dodge to save my pet.

It’s cool you don’t like the idea, but maybe “No no no, I’m greedy,” isn’t the best argument, maybe something constructive?

I’d prefer dodge/evade on F3 over dodge/evade on our dodge, but I’m sure there are even better ideas than that.

Give pets an endurance bar, then give them the AI coding from the Queensdale bandits. Problem solved.

For those who don’t know – the bandits in Queensdale are programmed to dodge AoE attacks, and will do it twice, at which point they are (presumably) out of endurance.

If pets had this, a LOT of complaints about pets would be gone.

(My personal complaint would still be there. I HATE having no choice but to have an npc do 40% of my damage. Pets should be doing minimal damage, and ranger weapon coefficients should be brought more in line with other classes. Pets should be providing boons and conditions, not damage. bleh.)

Tribio.8531:

Araris.7839:

I understand you’re obviously limited in some way. Allow me to elaborate so you can understand. This game utilizes the dodge/evade mechanic in all combat scenarios. Because our pet can not utilize this mechanic, they often become fodder for high damage abilitys, often killing them in a single hit.

Better?

Better explained (although I’m still missing a specific fractals mention here, oh well), but no reason to be so conceited like you are.. :P

Yeah, pets can’t dodge, true that.. But you do know that we are the only class that has an extra controllable entity, right? We can call our pet back (right before that boss will one-shot) or quickly switch to another.. So with some decent micro managing you can get your pet out of a lot of dire situations.. But once again: When you’re messing with such high DPS enemies, it might be better to have a supportive pet next to you heeled?

Next thing you know some mesmer will start whining that his clones don’t dodge either and get killed while running towards their target before shattering..
;-)

Ok, so you lose a third of your damage in exchange for a ‘support’ pet, which might get off 2 useful skills every 40 seconds. Does that have the same effectiveness as a pet would were it able to use all of its skills and damage? No? Then you’re objectively worse off than another class in that same scenario, and the imbalance needs to be addressed. Besides, as soon as the boss targets you with a one-shot AoE skill, your pet dies.

As for mesmers, clones don’t have a third of their damage and cc, and are expendable anyways. Boss winds up? Shatter the clones. Cast new ones after the attack, because the cooldown is under 30 seconds, and you can get several such skills on your bar at a time.