Guild Wars 2

mzt.3270:

-snip-

I pretty much agree with everything you say here.

The problem is that ANet wants the game to be played one way, and most players want to play it a different way. There’s a massive disconnect with the playerbase that isn’t being addressed. A lot of it has to do with the game itself, like the time-gating, RNG, soul-binding, trinity elimination, etc. Not saying those are good or bad right now, just that they have a large impact oh how people play the game and their expectations.

What was intended with this game by ANet is a far cry from what the reality of it is now. Yet they’ve shown time and time again they don’t want to acknowledge that disconnect.

+1. This is possibly THE most requested thing on the entire forum.

Obsidian.1328:

mzt.3270:

-snip-

I pretty much agree with everything you say here.

The problem is that ANet wants the game to be played one way, and most players want to play it a different way. There’s a massive disconnect with the playerbase that isn’t being addressed. A lot of it has to do with the game itself, like the time-gating, RNG, soul-binding, trinity elimination, etc. Not saying those are good or bad right now, just that they have a large impact oh how people play the game and their expectations.

What was intended with this game by ANet is a far cry from what the reality of it is now. Yet they’ve shown time and time again they don’t want to acknowledge that disconnect.

I have to say that I agree as well. The disconnect is that players want it different than the game itself is. But the fault is not solely with ArenaNet. It also lies with the players. Yes, ArenaNet is partly at fault here. But players, as well, are at fault for demanding that the game change to their whims.

I don’t think, though, that the game is a far cry from what it’s intentions were. It has strayed a bit, yes. But it’s not as far as many think. I think the players, at least the vocal ones around here, don’t want it and would prefer the warm comfort of the knowns of traditional MMOs. And they feel the need to try to impose that on GW2 when they run into obstacles.

SynfulChaot.3169:

Obsidian.1328:

mzt.3270:

-snip-

I pretty much agree with everything you say here.

The problem is that ANet wants the game to be played one way, and most players want to play it a different way. There’s a massive disconnect with the playerbase that isn’t being addressed. A lot of it has to do with the game itself, like the time-gating, RNG, soul-binding, trinity elimination, etc. Not saying those are good or bad right now, just that they have a large impact oh how people play the game and their expectations.

What was intended with this game by ANet is a far cry from what the reality of it is now. Yet they’ve shown time and time again they don’t want to acknowledge that disconnect.

I have to say that I agree as well. The disconnect is that players want it different than the game itself is. But the fault is not solely with ArenaNet. It also lies with the players. Yes, ArenaNet is partly at fault here. But players, as well, are at fault for demanding that the game change to their whims.

I don’t think, though, that the game is a far cry from what it’s intentions were. It has strayed a bit, yes. But it’s not as far as many think. I think the players, at least the vocal ones around here, don’t want it and would prefer the warm comfort of the knowns of traditional MMOs. And they feel the need to try to impose that on GW2 when they run into obstacles.

Actually, I would rather this game be more like GW1, but that’s not the case. GW2 is much more closer to standard MMO’s than the original game. And the decisions they’ve made post-launch are steering it even closer.

Obsidian.1328:

Actually, I would rather this game be more like GW1, but that’s not the case. GW2 is much more closer to standard MMO’s than the original game. And the decisions they’ve made post-launch are steering it even closer.

Again, I agree.

@ Obsidian.1328 & SynfulChaot.3169

Agreed both, some really good points made.

I’m all in for Pet removal because at the state, our pet are worthless to us due to intentional severe nerfs to their function as our companion.

A companion who watches us being mauled to death-
A companion who can not defend us by moving threats-
A companion who can not attack moving threats-
A companion who can not chase our threats at a far distance.
A companion who can not keep our threats at far distance.
A companion who is easily killed-
A companion who can not defend itself-
A companion who attacks poorly
A companion who can no auto-raise us when we are down.
A companion who gets lost in the heat of battle
A compamion who begs to do better but is intenetionally handicap to do so.

Comapanion, your time is up
You are no longer needed and I’m very sorry

I only wish i had the power to free you from these Imprisonment of nerfs and bugs

I make a last point to further clarify what I am trying to push here outside the whole Ranger debate, still topical and what I said on Anet not really understanding their own game.
2 hours farming on Southsun Coast with my 75% MF and an Omnom bar got me – 5 vials of Powerful blood, 1 vicious fang, 15 karka shells worth 9 silver each, a load of spiral shells, 15 potent blood , an exotic apocathery amulet and crab meat and some fangs etc. 2 hours of WvW gets me 40 silver in repairs, 30 spikes, a load of blue and green weapons. Taking keeps gets me a pile of blooddust I can’t do anything with until I reach 450 in professions and a lot of gold and level T6 mats to do that. Cutting the story short, I get more from farming and less work than the work in WVW, what with dodging 50 circles of AOE spam, crazy unequal match-ups where a lot of 5 to 6 hour timezone countries merge with largely euro servers as a ploy to make easy points . Its a mess. So what are Anet doing to make WVW attractive in its rewards? If live through all that over the top AOE spam , I am rewarded with spikes and low level blue and green – occasionally a rare but not often to the % of kills . So you can see how they really do not know the effort people take in WVW. So if we compare that same point of view but to discussing the in-equality with rangers etc to bridging the gap in classes, then Anet have a lot to answer for. It’s a great game but really they need to get the hands dirty, play alongside the common people and see what they have to experience BEFORE any changes and learn from it to improve the product.

I don’t see how you think they are actively working on it. Maybe you are more connected than any of us and know some information that we don’t, but we’ve all seen the pet health buff before. You know what it changes? Nothing. It’s a band-aid fix so that we think our pets are more useful. Our pets lack the mechanics that determine success in this game and that is evading damage and proper skill usage.

Anet has said themselves that they don’t want to give the ranger more control over his/her pets because it would be too confusing for new players (but I think there are more hidden reasons they won’t say). They also have said that giving the pet an evade on ranger evade was a bit op (but never specified if it was actually tested or theory crafted and threw in our face). So, we already know nothing is coming except some crappy hp buff (again) and maybe some skill changes. What most of us want is more control and better response out of the pet, not more health. Giving something more health doesn’t give me the impression that they are actively working on it as those are simply some values that can be changed rapidly on the spot.

Now I will mention there was a time when us rangers had hope. The pet patches way back that decreased f2 cast times and improved pet ai so melee pets hit more often. But it has been a long time since then and I feel that their focus is elsewhere (pushing the meta away from condi is pretty big on their list). I want to see improvements too, but in the meantime, perma stow please.

Indoles.1467:

I don’t see how you think they are actively working on it. Maybe you are more connected than any of us and know some information that we don’t, but we’ve all seen the pet health buff before. You know what it changes? Nothing. It’s a band-aid fix so that we think our pets are more useful. Our pets lack the mechanics that determine success in this game and that is evading damage and proper skill usage.

Anet has said themselves that they don’t want to give the ranger more control over his/her pets because it would be too confusing for new players (but I think there are more hidden reasons they won’t say). They also have said that giving the pet an evade on ranger evade was a bit op (but never specified if it was actually tested or theory crafted and threw in our face). So, we already know nothing is coming except some crappy hp buff (again) and maybe some skill changes. What most of us want is more control and better response out of the pet, not more health. Giving something more health doesn’t give me the impression that they are actively working on it as those are simply some values that can be changed rapidly on the spot.

Now I will mention there was a time when us rangers had hope. The pet patches way back that decreased f2 cast times and improved pet ai so melee pets hit more often. But it has been a long time since then and I feel that their focus is elsewhere (pushing the meta away from condi is pretty big on their list). I want to see improvements too, but in the meantime, perma stow please.

I see the pet health buff as a preliminary step so they can see how that affects our pets before they go further. And yes, some of what I’m looking forward to is based on a conversation I had with Sharp at PAX. I know that they’re aware of the pet issues. I know that they have been working on, or at least seriously discussing, how to fix some of them. And once they gather a few weeks worth of metrics from the pet health buff I’ll be looking forward to see what they’ve come up with as solutions to the issues.

Now I realize that most, if not nearly all, rangers have given up hope. Many have even went on to maining another class due to the issues endemic with our class. But I feel that allowing a buffed perma-stow before they work more on the pet will only permanently make the pet a never-used option.

I think the biggest issue that ANet has that causes that results in the disconnect with the community is the lack of open dialogue with the community. It seems like they don’t really follow up well enough to get feedback from the community, which only increases the extent of the disconnect.

For instance, they rarely ever openly search for reasoning behind the players opinions. Take this thread for example. If the devs don’t want to give players a removal option, or more control over the pets, they never ask for reasoning. Even in the state of the games, the devs break in with their assumptions as to what people want to do with changes they are asking for.

Ideally, the conversation should go:
Players: “we don’t like the pet.”
Devs: “we’re sorry you don’t like the mechanic. What’s wrong with it that is hurting your experience?”
Players: “these reasons”
Devs: “Okay, well, it looks like the core of the problem is this thing. We’ve actually been toying around with a few options to address this. Things for us can change, but right now, we really like this and this, and want to push them forward. Would this address the issue for you?”
Players: “Appropriate response to the dev response”

See, that would be really great. But what actually happens looks more like:

Players: “We don’t like this feature.”
Devs: “We’re sorry you feel this way. However, we can’t tell you anything, other than we are working on it, and that we think you will like the changes coming out in a patch that we can’t give an ETA on at this point in time.”

The biggest thing though is that what the devs are working on and what the players are requesting seem like they take different priorities. Rangers, for instance, are asking for more utilities to help get into groups and help support those groups, and the big change they announce for us is Sic’ Em. Well, yay, we get a unique ability, but it isn’t really going to push the class into the place the place the players were requesting, and it wasn’t really a priority change for players that wanted their pets to be more useful in big groups, or their spirits or utilities.

A huge part of the problem is a lack of the developer update blog that guild wars 1 had. EVERY big balance patch had a page filled with information and why changes were being made an ultimatums and philosophies and goals for the destination of where they wanted each class to be.

I’m sure most of the community would at least be more content if ANet would provide that kind of information. Some reassurance that there is a plan and a goal, and the reasoning behind the steps being taken to get there.

@ Indoles.1467
Yup, that’s a very valid point. No I don’t know anymore than you do and I don’t think the others on this forum do either. I just feel any change made to our class ( if its positive ) is a step forward. The issue is as I have said before is Anet really don’t have a clue about how different classes work. I can guarantee if an Anet product researcher took a month solidly battling in WvW and in PvE as a ranger against silver and gold champs, some serious changes would be made after seeing what issues there are; not only against the mechanics of rangers but some others too. It would be a far different story.

Anet’s issue is they listen to PvPers far too much and what is hilarious is they still have not had the gumption to put the clues together and work out why its all the guardians, elementaIists and any class in the top list as the ones that compete the most in these events, and IMO the ones suggesting that others are OP to make their class even stronger.
They even make a big thing about PvP offering prizes to the top team players. This is all wrong in a marketing point of view, because it is more or less devaluing the other players who do not take part in it and is a clear indication how simply don’t get the principle behind what is going on. It’s not rocket science, it’s plain as day to see and the facts others are saying the same thing and agreeing means there is a glaring issue.

I am actually hoping an Anet rep is reading this forum and maybe will take the challenge and document the findings on a forum post. It might be quite interesting to see what they say after actually playing a ranger against different classes and in different environments to see the underlying issues. The gauntlet is down Anet…will you take up the challenge ??.

@ jcbroe.4329
Yes this is exactly the issue, but when they do listen to people its from what they might deem as " the cream of GW2", those who compete in PVP as a main point to GW. Unfortunately getting feedback and advice from PVPers is like asking a caged chicken and a free range chicken on the issue of what constitutes daylight. One will look to the sun, the other will look to a halogen light. They cannot get an idea if they constantly listen to one set of players and the same classes constantly asking for lower classes to be nerfed.

I like having a pet and any game I play that has some form of ranger type petclass that is the one I pick first, but pets don’t work very well in gw2 that is a sad fact, sure enough they can be useful too but the only times I am raging at my screen it’s when my pet ruins my success in someway beyond my control wich sadly happens pretty much everyday, I can’t really recall having this much problem with any pet in any other game either I’m thinking more and more pets need to be removed as damage dealers and turn into some form of CD utilities that can’t die instead.

+1

SynfulChaot.3169:

Indoles.1467:

I’ve always been on the fence about this, until I played against the new Tequatl. If they are going to keep creating content where our pets are 100% useless then we need a permanent stow option. Buff or no buff, I just want the kitten thing gone in fights like that.

+1

Why is it that you all want the pets removed instead of improved? Because you don’t think it’s possible or because you don’t want them in the first place.

If it’s the latter, then you chose the wrong profession.

Maybe because after over a year playing this class pets don’t seem to improve much in the areas they have the most problems, survivability in some cases and attacking mobile targets to name the big ones and aside from cats they now also deal kitten poor damage from what they did initially.

Manekk.6981:

SynfulChaot.3169:

Why is it that you all want the pets removed instead of improved? Because you don’t think it’s possible or because you don’t want them in the first place.

If it’s the latter, then you chose the wrong profession.

Maybe because after over a year playing this class pets don’t seem to improve much in the areas they have the most problems, survivability in some cases and attacking mobile targets to name the big ones and aside from cats they now also deal kitten poor damage from what they did initially.

Again, it’s because the previous focus of class balance was PvP only. Now that we’re seeing more PvE focused changes, things should be coming to our pets soon.

As for pet DPS? Canines and drakes also do good damage, for pets, at least. And don’t overstate the pet damage nerf. It only affected the F2 skill and had far less of an impact than everyone makes it out to be. It wasn’t a major nerf. It was a minor one.

I see what you’re getting at and I understand your concern. I can’t say whether or not your concern is valid. It makes more sense to me now, but my position hasn’t swayed. Will a permanent stow feature be an excuse for them to shovel pet fixes off to the side for now? Maybe, but here is where our views differ. You are afraid this will be true while I feel that the perma stow feature is a simple addition that shouldn’t shift the time frame of any actual changes scheduled for pets. So, I’m basically asking for a band-aid fix here because I’ve been bleeding for too long and I’m near death (referring to playing ranger, especially in pve).

+1

Some glaring issues will arise if we get perma stow pet option. For example, RaO will be bad and also all of our signets will be useless.

I named all of mine peeve because they are worthless, usually cause more harm then good and that makes them my pet peeve!

gawker.8340:

+1

Some glaring issues will arise if we get perma stow pet option. For example, RaO will be bad and also all of our signets will be useless.

No it wouldn’t. You just wouldn’t get the might from your pet’s attacks (which is a mediocre boost since your pet won’t be hitting fast enough to give you much might anyway).

All signets useless? Their passive effects will still work as is.

And if it really bothers you,you could just activate the pet for when you use those and then stow it for when you’re not. If we weren’t forced to have them out in combat that is.

@mzt; You’re right, even though I’m going to throw out there that I have primarily played PvP in the past. But I’m still agreeing based on direct experience. There are a lot, A LOT, of PvP players who can’t separate themselves from their bias, and then call for changes based on that opinion. Watching the guildwars2pvptv channel, you hear things that these “top tier” streamers say about the ranger, like:

“eff the ranger, the pet carrying them”
“they don’t do anything but auto spam”
“wow, really? where did all those bleeds come from.”
“they should just delete that class”

I’ve even asked them in chat: “Hey, sorry that they are autoattack spamming. What rotation would you use that would be better or more skillful?”

And they respond: “I wouldn’t play that broken, (censored) crappy class. It’s for people with no skill that need AI to carry them.”

Then, we get people on the State of the Games, and people on the PvP forums who are considered “top tier,” who then say:

“Ranger is OP, they need a nerf”
“Rangers don’t take any skill to play and are too passive.”
“Rangers pets do way too much, they need to be looked at.”

The thing is, if those PvP players would learn to separate their own bias from their statements, they’d end up basically asking for some of the same changes the ranger community does; changes to our weapons, to make them better (by better I mean more interactive with a better opportunity to do damage or better effects; because you can’t make something stronger without increasing the amount of skill it takes to use it), or changes to our pets to make them more interactive or a more refined mechanic.

Watching the stream, take a look at any of the numerous streamers, and most of them, the moment they see a ranger, will immediately spend the next hour just complaining about the ranger class and the game. Actually, they aren’t that different than the ranger community (or any other profession subforum), who, during their low points, will just complain over and over in multiple threads.

It’s just really irritating that they can’t learn to take a step back, and with a good old fashion “don’t hate the player, hate the game” sentiment, collect their thoughts, remove their bias, and see that they are asking for the same things many of us are asking for, but with a negatively construed connotation because they are at odds with the current iteration of the class.

I just find it nightmarish that even if nobody agrees on the specifics that need to be changed; when you have a large majority, in fact, almost the entirety of the community complaining about the same core problems, that the devs won’t even speak up and have a dialogue about the issues, or offer some reassurance with helping us to understand the direction they are trying to take things and what they are trying to achieve.

Normally, I wouldn’t say something as negative as the following statement, but as far as balance updates go, it’s like the game is forced into eternal stagnation and purgatory, and every once in awhile, an update drops, that really only feels like it makes the health of the game worse, if it even changes at all.

As far as their small, gradual change philosophy goes, it’s understandable that they don’t want any knee-jerk changes being implemented into the game, so that players can get accustomed to changes being made without feeling like they have to relearn the game. However, without coming out and addressing it like I’ve mentioned previously, it gives the community of players the perception that because only small tweaks are being made, the devs probably believe that the game is close to being balanced, and big changes aren’t being made to in order to keep from disrupting that near perfect balance.

We don’t know that isn’t the case, because they simply don’t tell us, which means that players whose experience is being ruined by the state of their class are left with the frustration of not knowing whether to keep pushing onward in hopes that things will be better, or if they should simply give up the game because if it is meant to stay as is, they can finally be assured that it isn’t for them.

Not all of that is directed at you by the way lol. Got myself rambling again. Just kind of an “in addition to my previous statements” type thing.

i created my ranger at the start -3 day. nobody expected what will come. anet dont like ranged weapons and pet gameplay. we kittened…
i dont want pet. i play wvw, they are useless there.
+1

/signed op * 15 signs

• or alternatively fix our bloody skill coeficents in general instead of giving Maul its 3rd Buff -.-

Playing wvw, all you hear is pet down, pet down, your pet needs help. I know my pet needs help, but Anet refuses to help me. :/

@jcbroe.4329

Hahaha, yeah you hit the nail on the head there. I think this is why forums are good, because if people are honest about Anets own debacle in how its handling its own game.
Anyways yeah, your example is another great example ( thank you for that), where PVP elitist class earbending ear bending that travels to Anet’s ears, is basically ruining their own open-world gaming vision. It really has to stop and instead they need to address mechanics to more open world environments and WvW needs . PVP can just adapt to that not the other way around. The point is people have the choice to enter PVP, its not a requirement. Open World and WVW are required, not only for the achievement points but also for discovering maps, WvW badges for gaining legendary , dungeon discovery points, Living Story , Monthlies, Dailies . WVW and Open World is far more important than PVP, so yes… Anet need to stop listening to PVP nerf advice from " elite classes".

Nobody can learn about the big bad world if you run around all day in a maze, which PVP literally is. Its mostly a close combat scenario which as per the introduction of bows, grenades , rifles etc really have no place in. Where Pets and also ranged weapons have viability is in expansive open world applications, where range weapons and in the case of rangers, pet power is needed and start actually introducing viable programming inworld to make them effective.

By that I mean for example, keep walls that archers, riflemen and grenadiers can shoot/ lob ranged weapons over. Its not a insensitive thing to ask after all , especially as I said if mesmers can drag people over keep lip edges , people can AOE fire to destroy siege etc – then there should be a reasonable tactic for offense as there is defence.
A pet in this effect such as a bird, should be able to fly over a keep wall and attack a person, why not?… its a bird. But instead they hover and mull, peck at siege doors and just generally get shish kababed by the oppositions 30 arrowcarts in a tiny tower. Someone already rightly mentioned that a pet can’t even chase someone, I mean a lynx which is an amazingly fast creature can’t chase an Ele running away from a fight after I spent a good while battling them down?
Yet an NCP at Orr can come after me relentlessly for a good distance, hitting me with chills and stuns etc, yet my pet can’t travel more than two feet infront of me, sitting licking it’s feet and looking at me for its dinner, while said Ele is speeding off with the aid of Rune of No Battle Balls. I mean come -on Anet…really?

It’s totally ridiculous and people have the audacity to say short bows should be nerfed, that pets are OP in PVP and you actually see the need to nerf Ranger this in " class balancing" instead of actually helping it. Yet I can have a thief, who can perm stealth a group of people, who can then gank, stun a player without warning for a quick kill. Hmmm yeah So Anet… can you actually state what is considered OP now?

As for knee jerk reactions, well they did that already with magic find so I don’t think by not creating a major revamp of classes is a bad thing. As for people saying that rangers are too easy to play, its total rubbish. Thief is the easy class, spam 2 and you get everything you need for offense/ defense. It takes a very skilled person to play a ranger well especially as it has to work much harder with less to work with.

Lastly as for the guildwars2pvptv channel, well I have never had the opportunity to watch guildwars2pvptv , but to me it sounds not unlike the same mentality of chavs hanging around in a shopping mall, hands down the trousers 24/7 and spouting “Yo and bro” in every second word of a sentence. That reason in itself is possibly the reason why Anet should stop listening to them full stop. :P

I just started playing a ranger, why do I feel like many of the trait lines include pets one way or another, there needs to be a non-pet emphasis trait line.

They arent getting rid of pets. If anything what we need to request is a transformation of the idea into something that might make us happy.

For a start, let me suggest “spirit” pets. They get attributes like real pets etc, but they dont actually need to manifest and run around to attack, they just appear at the person and automatically get their attacks, albeit weaker than ordinary pet.

edit: Kind of like phantasms from mesmer…

Kilger.5490:

They arent getting rid of pets. If anything what we need to request is a transformation of the idea into something that might make us happy.

For a start, let me suggest “spirit” pets. They get attributes like real pets etc, but they dont actually need to manifest and run around to attack, they just appear at the person and automatically get their attacks, albeit weaker than ordinary pet.

edit: Kind of like phantasms from mesmer…

Oh yeah that would really be “Rangerish”.

Solid Gold.9310:

Kilger.5490:

They arent getting rid of pets. If anything what we need to request is a transformation of the idea into something that might make us happy.

For a start, let me suggest “spirit” pets. They get attributes like real pets etc, but they dont actually need to manifest and run around to attack, they just appear at the person and automatically get their attacks, albeit weaker than ordinary pet.

edit: Kind of like phantasms from mesmer…

Oh yeah that would really be “Rangerish”.

It’s more “Druidish” but we do have spirits already and can summon that ghost wolf thingy with 3 Ranger horns.

I would absolutely love to see Ranger’s given a staff and the auto attack summoned a ‘ghost wolf’ that ran toward the target and disappeared after 3 seconds.

+1

I’d like pets to be re-imagined. We get better power scaling and some buffs to our utilities and skills, our f1-4 become similar to the mesmers shatter skills, but different. For example, f1 would call in a wolf or something to knock down our opponent and deal good damage. F2 would call in a raven maybe to blind and apply bleeding or another cd to a foe. F3 would be like calling in a moa to grant aoe protection and fury. And F4 could summon a bear to tank all damage for you for a few seconds and cures cd’s on nearby allies.

Actually these may be a bit too similar to shatter skills, but you get my point.

What seems odd to me is that old trope that sometimes gets attached to rangers: jack of all trades but master of none. The GW2 ranger is like a combination of archer, druid, and especially beastmaster all rolled into one. But instead of it screaming ranger like it should, it’s just a disjointed patchwork of those three that don’t really synergize.

It’s like taking a cop, a doctor, and an animal trainer and trying to get them to work together. But they all speak a different language and nothing gets accomplished. :-(

Obsidian.1328:

What seems odd to me is that old trope that sometimes gets attached to rangers: jack of all trades but master of none. The GW2 ranger is like a combination of archer, druid, and especially beastmaster all rolled into one. But instead of it screaming ranger like it should, it’s just a disjointed patchwork of those three that don’t really synergize.

It’s like taking a cop, a doctor, and an animal trainer and trying to get them to work together. But they all speak a different language and nothing gets accomplished. :-(

Hmm…

I think it’s less that we don’t synergize and more that we don’t do anything truly well. We can be a decent archer/beastmaster. Or decent beastmaster/druid. But we can’t just be a good beastmaster. Or a good archer. We can only, at best, be ‘decent’ at any of them.

I play ranger because he a class that is at one with nature and it meant to use nature and natural things to overcome their enemy’s. Currently the pet A.I is not natural

+1

+1 , because we need it.

SynfulChaot.3169:

Manekk.6981:

SynfulChaot.3169:

Why is it that you all want the pets removed instead of improved? Because you don’t think it’s possible or because you don’t want them in the first place.

If it’s the latter, then you chose the wrong profession.

Maybe because after over a year playing this class pets don’t seem to improve much in the areas they have the most problems, survivability in some cases and attacking mobile targets to name the big ones and aside from cats they now also deal kitten poor damage from what they did initially.

Again, it’s because the previous focus of class balance was PvP only. Now that we’re seeing more PvE focused changes, things should be coming to our pets soon.

As for pet DPS? Canines and drakes also do good damage, for pets, at least. And don’t overstate the pet damage nerf. It only affected the F2 skill and had far less of an impact than everyone makes it out to be. It wasn’t a major nerf. It was a minor one.

I don’t know what you’ve been smoking, it was a very major nerf to practically all pets aside from cats who only got their major burst attack reduced by 50% wich isn’t minor in pvp, especially considering the quickness on petswap was removed at the same time.

I wasn’t overstating anything, you completely forgot how big the nerf was.

I guess I can +1 this as an option. But if it became a situation where pets never got fixed and you had to play no pet, then I would -1000 it. At the end of the day, this was supposed to be a pet class. Would be disappointed if they didn’t fix the pets to make them work vs totally give up with this option. Yet, no pets might be better than the ones we have. So between what should be done and what could realistically be done. . . .

Manekk.6981:

I don’t know what you’ve been smoking, it was a very major nerf to practically all pets aside from cats who only got their major burst attack reduced by 50% wich isn’t minor in pvp, especially considering the quickness on petswap was removed at the same time.

I wasn’t overstating anything, you completely forgot how big the nerf was.

People did the math. Yes, it did affect our DPS. But it wasn’t the 50% that everyone loves claiming it was. Not even close. I believe it was under 10% IIRC. Now yes, some of the burst damage went down by a large margin, but their overall damage output was affected far less than is constantly claimed.

Now I’m not saying that the nerf was needed. I strongly felt then, and still feel now, that it was an unnecessary nerf due to other classes in PvP refusing to attack our pets then complaining that we did too much damage when they were ignoring the heavy damage dealer. All I’m saying is that, comparatively speaking, it was a minor nerf.

I’m all for options. So some kind of passive buff or perma stow option would be nice.

Even if you’re against perma stow, the current situation is not well thought out or acceptable.

The current weapon dmg is clearly factoring the pet as being part of the DPS. When you think about it, HP increase is insufficient as a fix. Pet uptime IMO should be 100% If they’re insistent in going down this route with forced pet usage, they should give rangers multiple pet pairs to swap on the fly, with the penalty being you not able to use the pet you want when they’re down instead of having no pet at all for 60 seconds when they both get 1 shotted.

Like if my wolf/jag is down, I can switch to drake/spider, they go down, I can switch to eagle/moa etc etkittenil the first set is back up again. There should be ZERO pet down time if they’re factored as part of the toon.

SynfulChaot.3169:

Manekk.6981:

I don’t know what you’ve been smoking, it was a very major nerf to practically all pets aside from cats who only got their major burst attack reduced by 50% wich isn’t minor in pvp, especially considering the quickness on petswap was removed at the same time.

I wasn’t overstating anything, you completely forgot how big the nerf was.

People did the math. Yes, it did affect our DPS. But it wasn’t the 50% that everyone loves claiming it was. Not even close. I believe it was under 10% IIRC. Now yes, some of the burst damage went down by a large margin, but their overall damage output was affected far less than is constantly claimed.

Now I’m not saying that the nerf was needed. I strongly felt then, and still feel now, that it was an unnecessary nerf due to other classes in PvP refusing to attack our pets then complaining that we did too much damage when they were ignoring the heavy damage dealer. All I’m saying is that, comparatively speaking, it was a minor nerf.

I never spoke of 50% dps nerf I just said it was a major nerf to pet damage wich is was drakes and canines got a 20% nerf on their main attack not only the F2 like you said, that is definetly significant same thing was for the devourers who already did kitten damage on land, so no I don’t think comparatively it was a minor nerf, it should be said some few pets got some buffs too only it was the useless/near useless ones that wheren’t worth using before or after anyway.

edit: it was a 27% damage reduction for wolves and drakes.

Aridia.3042:

they should give rangers multiple pet pairs to swap on the fly, with the penalty being you not able to use the pet you want when they’re down instead of having no pet at all for 60 seconds when they both get 1 shotted.

Like if my wolf/jag is down, I can switch to drake/spider, they go down, I can switch to eagle/moa etc etkittenil the first set is back up again. There should be ZERO pet down time if they’re factored as part of the toon.

The problem is I want a well working class mechanic. Do they want us to use a kittening pet all the time? Cool that’s fine but I pretend at least some sort of emotional attachment with my pet. Pets in this game are like consumables. This class looks like pokemon online: let’s collect all those stupid pets around the world and swap them when needed like they were…consumables. I don’t want MORE pets to choose between when my pet/consumable is dying, I want one single pet that works well, or no pet at all, since they clearly don’t know how to fix the damage they made while designing this stupid class.

Manekk.6981:

I never spoke of 50% dps nerf I just said it was a major nerf to pet damage wich is was drakes and canines got a 20% nerf on their main attack not only the F2 like you said, that is definetly significant same thing was for the devourers who already did kitten damage on land, so no I don’t think comparatively it was a minor nerf, it should be said some few pets got some buffs too only it was the useless/near useless ones that wheren’t worth using before or after anyway.

edit: it was a 27% damage reduction for wolves and drakes.

It was noted, but it was not large enough for me to call it ‘major’. I firmly believe that the nerf was entirely unnecessary and was done due to to bad PvP players that couldn’t learn to adapt. That nerf affecting us worse in PvE and WvW where bunkering really isn’t a valid strategy. But it was not so major as to cause invalidation of the affected pets. I believe canines still remain the highest damage dealing pets to moving targets. Drakes are still highly used for their AoE attacks. And felines are still the spike damagers.

Yes, it was unnecessary. Yes, it was large enough to be noted. No, it was not what I would consider ‘major’.

SynfulChaot.3169:

Manekk.6981:

I never spoke of 50% dps nerf I just said it was a major nerf to pet damage wich is was drakes and canines got a 20% nerf on their main attack not only the F2 like you said, that is definetly significant same thing was for the devourers who already did kitten damage on land, so no I don’t think comparatively it was a minor nerf, it should be said some few pets got some buffs too only it was the useless/near useless ones that wheren’t worth using before or after anyway.

edit: it was a 27% damage reduction for wolves and drakes.

It was noted, but it was not large enough for me to call it ‘major’. I firmly believe that the nerf was entirely unnecessary and was done due to to bad PvP players that couldn’t learn to adapt. That nerf affecting us worse in PvE and WvW where bunkering really isn’t a valid strategy. But it was not so major as to cause invalidation of the affected pets. I believe canines still remain the highest damage dealing pets to moving targets. Drakes are still highly used for their AoE attacks. And felines are still the spike damagers.

Yes, it was unnecessary. Yes, it was large enough to be noted. No, it was not what I would consider ‘major’.

If a flat 27% damage reduction isn’t major to you then I’d hate to be on the recieveing end of what you would call a major nerf, when you say it’s not major enough to cause invalidation of them you speak as if there was an alternative when there really isn’t one, all 3 took a big hit in some way but drake and wolf alot more so because they got pure dps cut by almost a third while the cats probably have close to the same dps but instead lost practically all their burst capability.

The funny thing to me is back when they used to deal great damage they were almost entirely ignored while people whined and complained now instead I noticed more and more players actively take out the pet (with ridiculous ease too I might add) when it’s not worth nearly as much.

Manekk.6981:

If a flat 27% damage reduction isn’t major to you then I’d hate to be on the recieveing end of what you would call a major nerf, when you say it’s not major enough to cause invalidation of them you speak as if there was an alternative when there really isn’t one, all 3 took a big hit in some way but drake and wolf alot more so because they got pure dps cut by almost a third while the cats probably have close to the same dps but instead lost practically all their burst capability.

I still mainly use canines and drakes. I did before the nerf and I have continued to since. Among pets I currently find them to have the best damage output while retaining survivability in PvE. Though with the incoming pet HP buff I might start trying out felines and birds as the additional health might make them viable with my current zero in beastmastery.

Yes, their DPS was cut. No, not by a third. No, not to unviability. Remember that, IIRC, they still do the highest damage to moving targets of any pet. There is a reason many rangers still run canines. Because of their damage, CC, and active F2 skills.

Yes, the nerf was unnecessary. But no, it’s not as drastic as you keep trying to make it sound.

Manekk.6981:

The funny thing to me is back when they used to deal great damage they were almost entirely ignored while people whined and complained now instead I noticed more and more players actively take out the pet (with ridiculous ease too I might add) when it’s not worth nearly as much.

People have whined about pets since launch. Rangers complained as they noted the pet’s downsides even then. Other classes complained at the damage they do as they always seem to conveniently forget that our damage output is scaled down so we’re reliant on our pet for that additional damage to even draw close to what other classes deal directly.

Most of the rangers that complained then, and even still do now, do so because they either don’t want to the pet at all in the first place, or they’re unwilling to learn to utilize the pet properly. It is our mechanic, after all. Guardians that don’t learn to utilize their virtues don’t do as well. Elementalists that don’t learn to swap attunements don’t do as well. Why should rangers that don’t learn to utilize the pet do as well?

i changed my pets name to “I Hate Pet System”
join me if u feel the same
+1 to spirit pets
example: bear remove condis oeriodicly in aoe and on f2 it provide 2-3 sec invul in aoe.
wolf give party power buff and fear for f2. cats give us party crit and dunno what when we press f2. drakes share drake venom and aoe confusion for f2 etc…

Pets need massive work, that is an irrefutable fact. The problem is, they don’t want to split PvE/PvP and the only way for pets to work in both is for them to simply not exist. If you make pets nearly unkillable, then people will abuse them to hell and back again with regen tanks that are only ever used in spvp. We currently have a system that is designed to work for spvp and we all know how well that is working out.

It took them ~3 years or so in GW1 to figure out the only way for the game to work was 2 separate skill systems and they have said time and again that they don’t want to do it this time around. I know a lot of people don’t want their removal, but even if pets had a flawless hit system and F2’s that always worked how you wanted them to, when you wanted them to, they still would be worthless in dungeons where the boss fills the screen with instagib aoe’s that are meant to be dodged with human reflexes and in WvW where map zergs turn the pet to chum instantly and single target attacks are counter productive.

As long as we are tethered to the pet, we will never be wanted in 2/3 of the game modes populated by the vast majority of the game. This will sting even more so when WvW starts to have serious effects for servers next update.

SynfulChaot.3169:

I still mainly use canines and drakes. I did before the nerf and I have continued to since. Among pets I currently find them to have the best damage output while retaining survivability in PvE. Though with the incoming pet HP buff I might start trying out felines and birds as the additional health might make them viable with my current zero in beastmastery.

Yes, their DPS was cut. No, not by a third. No, not to unviability. Remember that, IIRC, they still do the highest damage to moving targets of any pet. There is a reason many rangers still run canines. Because of their damage, CC, and active F2 skills.

Yes, the nerf was unnecessary. But no, it’s not as drastic as you keep trying to make it sound.

I use drake too, for obvious reasons since no other pet cleaves or as I said there is no alternative, canines have always been good on moving targets due to their fast no1 skill yes, but they were always behind cats as far as damage goes aslong as you had any speed for the cat but I believe most used them because of their superior (compared to other pets) CC and again there really is no good alternative to what they have in that department.

The nerf was as drastic as it was, 27% is substantial when it’s on the main attack I’m not making it to be anything than what it was.

SynfulChaot.3169:

People have whined about pets since launch. Rangers complained as they noted the pet’s downsides even then. Other classes complained at the damage they do as they always seem to conveniently forget that our damage output is scaled down so we’re reliant on our pet for that additional damage to even draw close to what other classes deal directly.

Most of the rangers that complained then, and even still do now, do so because they either don’t want to the pet at all in the first place, or they’re unwilling to learn to utilize the pet properly. It is our mechanic, after all. Guardians that don’t learn to utilize their virtues don’t do as well. Elementalists that don’t learn to swap attunements don’t do as well. Why should rangers that don’t learn to utilize the pet do as well?

It’s not because of rangers that don’t know how to utilize their pet this thread was made, it’s because of the ones that do and still feel they too often get punished/crippled by their own class mechanic being crap in so much content.

Well… TA path F/U has been one of the hardest paths in the game and instead of Anet actually fixing that problem it was removed… i wonder if they’re going to do that with pets now… just wave them away and be like “Rangers Class Mechanic is not having one! yeah… that’s it…”

SynfulChaot.3169:

Most of the rangers that complained then, and even still do now, do so because they either don’t want to the pet at all in the first place, or they’re unwilling to learn to utilize the pet properly. It is our mechanic, after all. Guardians that don’t learn to utilize their virtues don’t do as well. Elementalists that don’t learn to swap attunements don’t do as well. Why should rangers that don’t learn to utilize the pet do as well?

I always play the (animal) petclass in every mmo I play BECAUSE I love pets (and petclasses)

I learned the (kitten) petsystem GW2 offers… it is easily the most uninspired and useless petsystem i have encountered.

On top of that it works not really good (I often counted how long it takes until my F2 ability procs… a total joke)

And dont let me start on the pathfinding problems and the AI as such…

So yes… we now got that you are happy (well not really but kind of) with the petsystem… but not everyone is – as far as I can count for everytime you “defend” the kitten petsystem 3 guys post that they dont like it.

And I dont believe that they can “fix” the petsystem of the Ranger- it just isnt a good one….

It is bad in PVE (dungeons etc) it is even worse in WvW (I dont care about sPVP)

So there you have it … I played Ranger since beta – always hoped it gets better – but actually … I dont think they can fix it…
and no: giving pets in PvE 74% more HP wont change anything at all…

Scrap the petsystem and make a new one…

GW2 actually has the only Petsystem where I dont care about my pets at all..
why should I?
They die as soon as there is AoE and then I swap to another one (wow, really a companion)…

… and they dont even remember their names…
(not to mention that taming them is like picking a plant… go there press f thats it…

I really do wish we only had ONE pet at a time… the whole having 2 pets you swap between really lessens the whole Companion vibe…

Durzlla.6295:

I really do wish we only had ONE pet at a time… the whole having 2 pets you swap between really lessens the whole Companion vibe…

Pretty much. It just reinforces the idea that the pet is nothing more than a DOT that can’t hit moving targets :/

Atherakhia.4086:

Durzlla.6295:

I really do wish we only had ONE pet at a time… the whole having 2 pets you swap between really lessens the whole Companion vibe…

Pretty much. It just reinforces the idea that the pet is nothing more than a DOT that can’t hit moving targets :/

When i first heard of the whole pet swapping thing i was like “Oh that’s pretty cool” because they sold it as a sort of “you can swap pets but it’s better to stick with just one!” sort of thing, and now we have this….

Why is it all the really awesome things about pets were changed? Like picking their skill set (including what skill was the F2) from a pool of skills, the whole evolution system… the original training system… the original beast mastery traits…