Guild Wars 2

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/hot/Upcoming-Global-Change-to-Player-Minions/first#post5625354

In case the HoT thread gets missed

Sweet.

I was thinking that the raid thing where minons didn’t get hit was a bug, but since it is a feature a Druid with frost/stone spirit is a great idea.

Took them 3 years and it’s actually making most spirits in PVE viable, now.

Now they just need to fix sword and we’ll be nearly good.

It’s ONLY for pve.
In pvp and WvW they will die same way.

Rizo.9534:

It’s ONLY for pve.
In pvp and WvW they will die same way.

But it’s a fantastic start.

Damage immune pets would be hella OP in PvP. I like the suggestion that’s been brought up a few times about pets in WvW getting DR based on number of enemies around or something.

Who cares about PvP anyway.
Pets die in PvE because of insane damage from bosses. If they die in PvP it is working as intended. (Maybe they can look at zerk vs. zerk in WvWvW, but hey, for now, pets might work in PvE – yay!)

This is a fantastic step forward for pets. Now lets fix their hit rate in pvp!

Irenio CalmonHuang.2048:

This was the systemic change to help with pet survivability that I’d alluded to earlier.

I’ll be listening for feedback on the changes to see how the 95% damage reduction feels and whether we need to tweak the numbers some more.

Irenio – is there plans to fix pet hit rate in pvp? As of right now pets miss upwards of 70% of their attacks.

Brilliant change especially for spirit use in dungeons, can’t wait.

Also Irenioooooo while you’re onliiiineee….. any chance there’s been improvements to CA skill 1? (pls pls pls AoE increase and insta cast time pls pls pls pls )

will this override pet damage immunity to certain things like the lava in Megadestroyer?

Hi Irenio,

this “systemic change” is a missed opportunity and rather disappointing for us pvp-only folk. especially for the wvw’ers. here is the feedback I left in Roy’s thread, please have a read.

in WvW, ranger pets get decimated in seconds by zerg aoe’s and are virtually non-functional outside of small skirmishing scenarios. the other areas you missed: engie turrets and other non-pet AI in pvp, theyre totally useless. spirit weapons, spirits, gyros and so on.

SUGGESTION #1

I can see the CHALLENGE of trying to balance player’s AI in pvp. but the simple thing to do is just make them immune to 5-player aoe attacks (includes ele’s pbaoes, necros wells, etc.), but still keep the damage the same on CLEAVE and single target attacks, while slightly buffing some of their HP.

this basically means the opponent must at the very least aim or even select the AI he wants to destroy, instead of just facerolling aoe’s and pbaoe’s until everything is dead. I thought gw2 was supposed to reward skill-based play? wouldn’t minion/ai builds be interesting to pick apart over time? wouldn’t that require an additional layer of strategy as it buys time for the controller of said ai? wouldn’t this make the game more interesting?

I was completely against what you guys did to turret engies, even though I only play the ranger. previous to the turret changes, I enjoyed picking apart turret engies, blowing up their turrets one by one before moving in for the kill. instead of seeing opportunity in this and just slightly nerfing the HP of turrets, you guys knee-jerked the build into complete uselessness. when will you learn? when will you stop doing this?

SUGGESTION 2

the other option is to have a DYNAMIC system that takes into account how many aoe’s are on the ground, and just cap off how many affect the pet, i.e. max of 3 aoe’s at a time.

SUGGESTION 3

here is ANOTHER good suggestion that should be easy to implement in my opinion, at least for rangers. simply allow us to stow the pet in heavy aoe situations, and bring him out only when he is needed. i.e. we can enter combat WITHOUT the pet! once he is brought out, he has to be out for a while before swapped to the second one. this may indeed lead to his death, but at the very least he wouldn’t be following us into a zerg and getting melted, effectively reducing our effectiveness right off the bat. no skill involved, just silly mechanics.

these “systemic changes” for minions/ai mean absolutely nothing to pvp’ers who wanna play builds involving minions/ai. these builds are unviable competitively and have been for a very long time. hope u guys have a look at my feedback above.

I am very happy.

As someone who loves all my pets. . .

I am so happy right now!

Irenio CalmonHuang.2048:

This was the systemic change to help with pet survivability that I’d alluded to earlier.

I’ll be listening for feedback on the changes to see how the 95% damage reduction feels and whether we need to tweak the numbers some more.

that’s verry nice, thanks!
but with this changes it’s time to bring back spirits unbound please

Gaile Gray.6029:

I thought my fellow rangers would like this news.

Any bit of help is very welcome…

We love it in pve Gaile!

Meanwhile in wvw… When the ground is littered by red circles as far as the eye can see… Dead ranger pets (that account for 30% or whatever number of our damage) are all around… How about those stationary spirits…

Gaile Gray.6029:

I thought my fellow rangers would like this news.

I do like this news, now just fix pet’s ability to hit in combat and I will be sated. Is there any way you can get us word if the devs are working on fixing pet’s ability to hit in pvp?

3 years in the making, but better late than never, right? 95% is very generous. Hope it doesn’t get tweaked (down) too much in the future.

Gaile Gray.6029:

Remember, you’ve seen that many designers are actively reviewing professions. So don’t give up hope, and be sure to keep in mind that the devs have to look at the big picture as well as the small. There is a lot of careful and critical review taking place, and I have a feeling there will be other changes in the future. (And no, I don’t know what they are, but I’m glad that the professions are getting so much attention these days, and this change seems a really great step in the right direction!)

It is just that the steps ANet takes are so, so random.

Like we get healers and tanks now, and raids and stuff.

While I really like the pet change for my mains being mesmer, ranger and necro, you can never be sure that there won’t be some very questionable change ahead, like let’s say the NPE or the trait change back in the days.

I will embrace the news, but I will not trust the decision making of ANet. It is just too confuse…

Gaile Gray.6029:

I thought my fellow rangers would like this news.

Hi Gaile,

only the ones who exclusively do pve. it’s a missed opportunity for those of us who aren’t interested in GW2’s pve. GW2 isnt a pve-only game. but if I did play just pve, I would be happy, for sure.

but as you said, a bunch of us have a new hope for this ugly duckling of a profession (since release) with Irenio actively reading our feedback and acting on it.

sorry to be such a negative Nancy, but those of us who have stuck with the profession since release have been through a lot of “game-related hardship”.

Gaile Gray.6029:

Remember, you’ve seen that many designers are actively reviewing professions. So don’t give up hope, and be sure to keep in mind that the devs have to look at the big picture as well as the small. There is a lot of careful and critical review taking place, and I have a feeling there will be other changes in the future. (And no, I don’t know what they are, but I’m glad that the professions are getting so much attention these days, and this change seems a really great step in the right direction!)

We are angry, bitter and venting many years of frustration Gaile, don’t go waving the happy wand around these parts! Get off our lawn!

95% looks extreme. Ohwell ;-)

mistsim.2748:

Gaile Gray.6029:

I thought my fellow rangers would like this news.

Hi Gaile,

only the ones who exclusively do pve. it’s a missed opportunity for those of us who aren’t interested in GW2’s pve. GW2 isnt a pve-only game. but if I did play just pve, I would be happy, for sure.

but as you said, a bunch of us have a new hope for this ugly duckling of a profession (since release) with Irenio actively reading our feedback and acting on it.

sorry to be such a negative Nancy, but those of us who have stuck with the profession since release have been through a lot of “game-related hardship”.

It is, at least, a step in the right direction.

Imo, if they were to implement a damage reduction for pets using the Mistlock Instability:Playing Favorites mechanic, then pets would be in a good place for both PvP and WvW.

This is a good change for PvE though and made spirit builds viable for that mode at least. Oh, and no need to pick tanky pets for encounters if a DPS pet would be better.

Justine.6351:

95% looks extreme. Ohwell ;-)

Please don’t start with this crap. If you think 95% is extreme then you haven’t played PvE at a high level at all.

Mesmer illusions have 7-10k HP at most, mobs in fractal 50 swing for 7k autoattacks and some abilities hit as hard as 16-20k damage. We need that level of mitigation to sustain more fragile minions.

This is great news.

Any chance/thoughts we can get them to follow again

Heimskarl Ashfiend.9582:

Imo, if they were to implement a damage reduction for pets using the Mistlock Instability:Playing Favorites mechanic, then pets would be in a good place for both PvP and WvW.

wow, that is so cool. didn’t know about that. should have been easy to implement, no?

what the hell is the point of pets dying RANDOMLY?

Zenith.7301:

Justine.6351:

95% looks extreme. Ohwell ;-)

Please don’t start with this crap. If you think 95% is extreme then you haven’t played PvE at a high level at all.

Mesmer illusions have 7-10k HP at most, mobs in fractal 50 swing for 7k autoattacks and some abilities hit as hard as 16-20k damage. We need that level of mitigation to sustain more fragile minions.

20k x .05 = 1k dmg.

I may not lvl 50 fractal but that seems excessive. Any other place in pve/wvw(yeah there are npcs ingame beside pve/lvl 50 fractal) it will 100% carry. I’m not upset, I can take the most glass pet over devourer and not have to manage pet or watch healthbar anymore.

Any possibility of increasing the auto attack range and possibly adding cleave to more pets outside of the drake family? In this video you can see that the Polymorph Elite Skill from Mesmer drastically increases the performance of the pet. In the tool tip, pet’s auto attacks have an attack range of 130 while the auto attack on the auto attack for the moa form has an attack range of 250 while also cleaving as it says on the wiki page. As it is, pets have difficulty tracking moving targets, and this would help fix that issue for Ranger in PvP and WvW since pets are mainly used for utility and CC in these areas.

Shoe.5821:

will this override pet damage immunity to certain things like the lava in Megadestroyer?

Or the cannon phase of Mai Trin

This is a great question

DoogySnowStalker.2069:

Any possibility of increasing the auto attack range and possibly adding cleave to more pets outside of the drake family? In this video you can see that the Polymorph Elite Skill from Mesmer drastically increases the performance of the pet. In the tool tip, pet’s auto attacks have an attack range of 130 while the auto attack on the auto attack for the moa form has an attack range of 250 while also cleaving as it says on the wiki page. As it is, pets have difficulty tracking moving targets, and this would help fix that issue for Ranger in PvP and WvW since pets are mainly used for utility and CC in these areas.

I see people keep asking for this but can you imagine an enemy ranger’s pet on you that never fails to hit unless you dodge or use a movement skill? The attrition would be horrible. Definitely something to go into beastmastery line and not just baseline.

Justine.6351:

DoogySnowStalker.2069:

Any possibility of increasing the auto attack range and possibly adding cleave to more pets outside of the drake family? In this video you can see that the Polymorph Elite Skill from Mesmer drastically increases the performance of the pet. In the tool tip, pet’s auto attacks have an attack range of 130 while the auto attack on the auto attack for the moa form has an attack range of 250 while also cleaving as it says on the wiki page. As it is, pets have difficulty tracking moving targets, and this would help fix that issue for Ranger in PvP and WvW since pets are mainly used for utility and CC in these areas.

I see people keep asking for this but can you imagine an enemy ranger’s pet on you that never fails to hit unless you dodge or use a movement skill? The attrition would be horrible. Definitely something to go into beastmastery line and not just baseline.

That is true, but our pet is meant to be an extension of ourselves, allowing us to maintain a presence in two places at once. Although, as it is currently for pets, we can only rely on them for utility and CC. Maybe not increase it to the same amount as 250, but somewhere in between so the pet can get some attacks in while the enemy is trying to kite the pet, at least that way the pet isn’t always on the enemy.

Justine.6351:

Zenith.7301:

Justine.6351:

95% looks extreme. Ohwell ;-)

Please don’t start with this crap. If you think 95% is extreme then you haven’t played PvE at a high level at all.

Mesmer illusions have 7-10k HP at most, mobs in fractal 50 swing for 7k autoattacks and some abilities hit as hard as 16-20k damage. We need that level of mitigation to sustain more fragile minions.

20k x .05 = 1k dmg.

I may not lvl 50 fractal but that seems excessive. Any other place in pve/wvw(yeah there are npcs ingame beside pve/lvl 50 fractal) it will 100% carry. I’m not upset, I can take the most glass pet over devourer and not have to manage pet or watch healthbar anymore.

Now multiply that by multiple sources. I take it you haven’t done Verdant Brink dynamic events on a mesmer. The amount of deadly AoE spam, especially on the Wyvern encounter, requires THAT kind of mitigation.

Thank you this was a much needed change.

Any news on the sword auto?

Justine.6351:

I see people keep asking for this but can you imagine an enemy ranger’s pet on you that never fails to hit unless you dodge or use a movement skill?

Soooo, it would finally, after 3 years, actually work like proper player skills and be worth the loss in damage and lack of competitive burst/spike on the class?

That would be horrible!

Oh thank god. To finally have this brings tears to my eyes. It’s really frustrating to have your pet die instantly to unavoidable AoE from bosses. AoE is around more than ever with HoT….I remember in the beta my pet was dead for most of the fights against the legendary wyvern.

Irenio CalmonHuang.2048:

This was the systemic change to help with pet survivability that I’d alluded to earlier.

I’ll be listening for feedback on the changes to see how the 95% damage reduction feels and whether we need to tweak the numbers some more.

Now would you please take a good look on Sword 1 and 2.

Axe 5, and Warhorn 4?

Sword 1 will be a fetal in more difficult contents in the future due to the horrendous self-root attack pattern (and the only weapon that can’t hit at max melee range because of how it attacks)

Sword 2 evade occurs way too late, and the whole animation is clunky and slow.
It should work like Daredevil’s staff 3.

Axe 5 still rooting yourself, while Engineer’s shield 4 and Guardian’s shield 5 all unroot themselves while blocking projectiles already.

War-horn 4 still has no function at all, long CD, low damage with no additional effect.
There’s not a single skill in the game is like this..

Fluffball.8307:

Damage immune pets would be hella OP in PvP. I like the suggestion that’s been brought up a few times about pets in WvW getting DR based on number of enemies around or something.

People keep using this, please stop, if they can make boons prioritize players they can make damage prioritize players. This is not an excuse.

I’m curious if the damage reduction is just for direct damage only. The Mistlock Instability, Playing Favorites, reduces both direct and condition damage. Will this act the same way?

Irenio CalmonHuang.2048:

This change reduces duration of conditions applied by 95% and the amount of direct damage by 95%.

Just for clarification, the damage reduction won’t apply to [Empathic Bond], activated [Signet of Renewal], and [Protect Me] right?

And what about placing a spirit/pets to block projectiles from Old Tom in the Fractals?

Wondrouswall.7169:

I’m curious if the damage reduction is just for direct damage only. The Mistlock Instability, Playing Favorites, reduces both direct and condition damage. Will this act the same way?

the problem with implementing Playing Favourites in pvp (if we were to do so) is that the pet would still contribute to 5 target aoe caps. meaning that zergs could run a bunch of necros and rangers to “tank” aoe damage.

so this leads me back to my third suggestion: allow us to enter combat without our pet and simply summon him as needed. once summoned, he has to stay out for x amount of seconds. while he may likely die, at least this way we will have more control over our pets and their abilities instead of entering combat crippled with one pet dead.

[going off of this, we could even play around with a new mechanic – when ranger summons the pet, there is an additional effect upon the pet’s “arrival”. I could be an aoe boon, a cleanse, some sort of debuff, or a small amount of damage.]

[again, to restate the problem for WvW rangers: because zerg vs. zerg is so crucial to this game mode, and because pets follow us blindly as we wade through the blanket of ground-targeted aoe spells, we basically make contact with the opposing side with one pet already dead. this has been an oversight for 3 years.]

this change would be a lot easier to implement than any of the other suggestions as a simple QoL adjustment.

Irenio CalmonHuang.2048:

This change reduces duration of conditions applied by 95% and the amount of direct damage by 95%.

Nice. Thanks for the quick reply! Keep up the fantastic job, man!

mistsim.2748:

-snip-

Not even sure why you quoted me and typed that reply. My question was simply asking if it would reduce condition damage like “Playing Favorites.” Whatever floats your boat, though.

Wondrouswall.7169:

Not even sure why you quoted me and typed that reply. My question was simply asking if it would reduce condition damage like “Playing Favorites.” Whatever floats your boat, though.

I’m just whipping out feedback ideas as they come. it was actually pertaining to Heim’s suggestion to implement Playing Favourites for WvW, so I guess I quoted the wrong person.

I was actually hoping there would be a little bit more solidarity among the ranger community regarding bringing this to wvw where mass aoe’s are a much larger problem than in pve; but most users appear glassy-eyed over the strictly pve changes (which, I concede, are fantastic and long-awaited by those players). yet many of us don’t even play pve, and wvw rangers have been partially crippled in zerg fights since release.

Zenith.7301:

Justine.6351:

Zenith.7301:

Justine.6351:

95% looks extreme. Ohwell ;-)

Please don’t start with this crap. If you think 95% is extreme then you haven’t played PvE at a high level at all.

Mesmer illusions have 7-10k HP at most, mobs in fractal 50 swing for 7k autoattacks and some abilities hit as hard as 16-20k damage. We need that level of mitigation to sustain more fragile minions.

20k x .05 = 1k dmg.

I may not lvl 50 fractal but that seems excessive. Any other place in pve/wvw(yeah there are npcs ingame beside pve/lvl 50 fractal) it will 100% carry. I’m not upset, I can take the most glass pet over devourer and not have to manage pet or watch healthbar anymore.

Now multiply that by multiple sources. I take it you haven’t done Verdant Brink dynamic events on a mesmer. The amount of deadly AoE spam, especially on the Wyvern encounter, requires THAT kind of mitigation.

Correction 20k x 0.5 = 10k dmg. that equals dead pet

95% of 20k = 1k, which may be a bit too high but they are looking at it. I figure it’ll get down to the 60-70% mark eventually.

Very very very happy with the change, i’m glad spirits are being made viable and my pet won’t drop dead as I walk into a raid zone!