Guild Wars 2

just to help you guys out with a discussion I’m not remotely interested in, five percent is 0.05. 20000 × 0.05 = 1000. so for pve, it’s going to be just fine. maybe not for illusions, but ranger pets will be fine.

Hate to be the cynic..but here goes.

This isn’t a change to make ranger better, as it includes all player minions. Even worse, this change is not helpful in the least for WvW where pets get instagibbed in zerg vs zerg.

General question for the devs, do you guys really fear pet’s this much? What I mean is, truly if they were changed to be 95% reduction in all game modes unless specifically targeted…you think that would be game breaking?

Note, not ALL minions. Ranger pets. Specifically ranger pets. Which saddens me to be lumped in the ‘minion’ category as they are a vital part of the Ranger. It’s not like we can spec out of them like necros or insta kill them for massive damage / conditions like mesmer.

Gotejjeken.1267:

Hate to be the cynic..but here goes.

This isn’t a change to make ranger better, as it includes all player minions. Even worse, this change is not helpful in the least for WvW where pets get instagibbed in zerg vs zerg.

General question for the devs, do you guys really fear pet’s this much? What I mean is, truly if they were changed to be 95% reduction in all game modes unless specifically targeted…you think that would be game breaking?

Note, not ALL minions. Ranger pets. Specifically ranger pets. Which saddens me to be lumped in the ‘minion’ category as they are a vital part of the Ranger. It’s not like we can spec out of them like necros or insta kill them for massive damage / conditions like mesmer.

pretty much =( pets are our " prof mechanic".

Gotejjeken.1267:

Hate to be the cynic..but here goes.

This isn’t a change to make ranger better, as it includes all player minions. Even worse, this change is not helpful in the least for WvW where pets get instagibbed in zerg vs zerg.

General question for the devs, do you guys really fear pet’s this much? What I mean is, truly if they were changed to be 95% reduction in all game modes unless specifically targeted…you think that would be game breaking?

Note, not ALL minions. Ranger pets. Specifically ranger pets. Which saddens me to be lumped in the ‘minion’ category as they are a vital part of the Ranger. It’s not like we can spec out of them like necros or insta kill them for massive damage / conditions like mesmer.

The problems plaguing Ranger pets are largely the same problems plaguing any other minion type. Aside from Mesmer illusions and the occasional place-and-detonate approach to Engineer turrets, minion builds of any kind suffer in current content. If the fix is available, it’d be foolish to apply it to only one instance of minion inadequacy. Fixing the minion builds of other classes doesn’t invalidate the value it has for Rangers.

I agree that it’d be nice to get such changes for WvW and PvP as well, but it’s at least been made clear that they are now paying attention to pet and minion failings.

kiwituatara.6053:

Irenio CalmonHuang.2048:

This change reduces duration of conditions applied by 95% and the amount of direct damage by 95%.

Just for clarification, the damage reduction won’t apply to [Empathic Bond], activated [Signet of Renewal], and [Protect Me] right?

And what about placing a spirit/pets to block projectiles from Old Tom in the Fractals?

I’m curious about the first part myself.

On the second part: I do that to Old Tom all the time. My drakes can facetank his entire poison bolt barrage before I even have to swap them. If the 95% damage reduction applies to old tom’s AoE, that just means I can slot 2 cats instead of 2 drakes.

They really need to implement this for Ranger pets in WvW and PvP too, 95% would be too much, but 50% should be fine. All other minions are optional play styles and as we all know some play styles do not suit certain areas, but Ranger pets are not optional, so we should not be in a position where an entire class does not suit certain areas of the game purely because of its class mechanic.

What happens for any conditions transferred to the ranger’s Pet by Signet of Renewal or Empathetic Bond? Are they full duration or also reduced by 95% since they are not directly targeting the pet?

Will Green Moas be tamable?

Prophet.1584:

95% of 20k = 1k, which may be a bit too high but they are looking at it. I figure it’ll get down to the 60-70% mark eventually.

Have to also remember that this is including all minions, pets, and etc. Even though pets have a much larger amount of health than turrets, illusions, and spirits, I would rather they tweak the band-aid of pet vitality in PVE instead of tweaking 95% lower because of pet vitality.

1k damage from a 20k hit maybe small when looking at a pet’s health, but an untraited spirit and most turrets have about 5-7k health. 1k is still a fair chunk of its health, and with spam-happy mobs and multiple shot AOEs, the 95% reduction is a pretty fair deal.

you just can’t please everyone, as prime beast master spec, this is awesome

Gaile Gray.6029:

I thought my fellow rangers would like this news.

In deed, i love it ^^

Thanks!

Next on the list to fix, for pvp and wvw, is the loooooonnnnngggg activation times on pets F2 skills. Especially for wvw, where targets are so far away by the time 1.5 seconds passes they may as well be on another borderland. Not so much of a problem in spvp where people tend to stand on circles…

When F2’s are down to 1/4 or at max 1/2 second activation time I might be tempted to try and ranger in spvp again, or even wvw roaming.

I still feel my ele is more use than a healing ranger ( as well as being able to tag enemies for loot).

Gaile Gray.6029:

I thought my fellow rangers would like this news.

That Rangers are becoming tolerable for Dungeons the same day that dungeons are having their rewards gutted?

The amount of ‘better’ in ‘better late than never’ it seems can be very slight indeed.

This… Is what i have been waiting for!!!!! The only thing left on the table is a retooling of the sword #1 chain and I will have nothing left to come in here and kitten about.

Jasper Defthand.3018:

This… Is what i have been waiting for!!!!! The only thing left on the table is a retooling of the sword #1 chain and I will have nothing left to come in here and kitten about.

Shortbow rework maybe? =3

Axe 5

Fifteen characters

Maybe stupid question,
Do vines we make get the 95% dmg reduction aswell?

Talking ancient seeds, entangle, rune of the grove, binding roots and grasping vines.

Problem with WvW, pets, and minions is that it is a sheer numbers game. PvE is a bit more controlled, same with sPvP (player cap). WvW – not so much so the balance is a bit more difficult to do.

Personally, would be nice if they addressed the lack of pet stealth when running trapper runes. This will be a issue in sPvP as well so should have a somewhat higher priority I would think.

Edit: I would also think other stealth classes would appreciate this fix because I am assuming player mini’s get treated the same way or same code when stealth. I just followed a thief last night who had a mini out Stealth + mini = following the bread crumbs to a free loot bag.

So for PVE realistically would a better build be BM/NM/Druid for boon sharing and increased pet stats to allow the pet to dps while we heal or are we still stuck with skirmishing to provide spotter?

Ideally in a group with 2 or more rangers one could go full heal clerics while the other two either off-heal or DPS old school

Prophet.1584:

So for PVE realistically would a better build be BM/NM/Druid for boon sharing and increased pet stats to allow the pet to dps while we heal or are we still stuck with skirmishing to provide spotter?

Ideally in a group with 2 or more rangers one could go full heal clerics while the other two either off-heal or DPS old school

potentially for raids, but not for 5 man groups. You will still be required to heavily dps in 5 mans.

Prophet.1584:

So for PVE realistically would a better build be BM/NM/Druid for boon sharing and increased pet stats to allow the pet to dps while we heal or are we still stuck with skirmishing to provide spotter? …

Don’t forget about Quick Draw! It procs when you go into and out of CAF, so you will be able to trigger it pretty frequently when combined with weapon swaps. Meaning you can add a fair bit more DPS/support/healing as you prefer. Sharpened Edges is also pretty nice because both you and your pet will be might stacked. So, Skirmishing is not all bad

Pets had an increase of their health pool for PvE in a prwvious attempt to make them useful in dungeons. Would this change allow to bring it back to normal HP?

Also, when that change occured in PvE (twice higher health), it was stated it couldn’t be implemented in PvP or WvW because it would be unfair, which I concede.
But the necessity to target the pet, I believe, would bring an higher level of play in WvW and PvP. I do know it can’t be applied for all minions (imagine having to target one by one all minions to get to the minion mancer…), but I wish it could be implemented for professions mechanics (mesmers and rangers) even in PvP and WvW situations.

Tl;dr :
Profession mechanism (ranger pet, mesmer illusions) should get an incoming untargetted damage reduction from all sources (players also), and not just from NPC.

Illusions and phantasm aren’t on the same level as our pet. They’re meant to be spammed and destroyed in pvp at least. Our pet on the other hand simply doesn’t do much other than being an f2 bot in pvp, and for this they have to be alive

this change does very little for my active pvp/wvw ranger. Oh well, pet still useless in wvw, still dead in team fights in pvp. Maybe ill consider playing my ranger in pve now, the little of it I do play these days. Guess I can play it though HoT safely enough

Gaile Gray.6029:

Man, and rangers, as a rule, are usually so nice! Well, all I can say is "HUMPH!!*

I’ll just leave this here…
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zDh4qk1Tl8k

Also I really like how you made a distinction between humans and rangers. Way to keep our spirits up (no pun intended).

;)

Gaile Gray.6029:

I thought my fellow rangers would like this news.

3 years Gaile. And ranger is always in the same situation.

I Don’ t want to be too hard but you have no idea about how many rangers have quitted this game and will never buy Hot for this.

Anet truly lost many customers among the ranger community.
That’ s sad for everyone, Anet and community.

Darkness.9732:

Gaile Gray.6029:

I thought my fellow rangers would like this news.

3 years Gaile. And ranger is always in the same situation.

I Don’ t want to be too hard but you have no idea about how many rangers have quitted this game and will never buy Hot for this.

Anet truly lost many customers among the ranger community.
That’ s sad for everyone, Anet and community.

Their metrics can probably prove it’s wrong….

Very cool change and probably very needed for raids

As for WvW, pets need to be immune to AoE as well. It’s fine in PvP as is.

Also, pets have more health in PvE than in WvW for the past 2 years or so.

Gaile Gray.6029:

Swagger.1459:

Gaile Gray.6029:

Remember, you’ve seen that many designers are actively reviewing professions. So don’t give up hope, and be sure to keep in mind that the devs have to look at the big picture as well as the small. There is a lot of careful and critical review taking place, and I have a feeling there will be other changes in the future. (And no, I don’t know what they are, but I’m glad that the professions are getting so much attention these days, and this change seems a really great step in the right direction!)

We are angry, bitter and venting many years of frustration Gaile, don’t go waving the happy wand around these parts! Get off our lawn!

Man, and rangers, as a rule, are usually so nice! Well, all I can say is "HUMPH!!*

And we are the nicest community of players in GW2, always available to help!! but that doesn’t mean we can’t spit some salty and bitter comments on the way.. Just because we live alone in the forest and the loneliness of not being listened by anyone make us so. But always with a good heart in hand

Actually i don’t see permanent damage mitigation like a problem solver here. It’s a dirty fix but i don’t see it like really working. For pvE there shouldn’t be much complaining though, anything that can make the pets survive the megadestroyer’s lava like AoE boss areas is very welcome, but the main problem with the pets AI is in PvP and WvW.

While the team can’t find a solution for this the general mentality of ranger = useless will not change, the ranger’s teammates have to be able to appreciate the pet to change that.

If more fine grain control is not possible Just making the pet smarter so they actually help the ranger/other players would be fantastic. I think things like the dogs breaking stomps channeled skills, the bears offer cover with the immunity skill, birds dropping swiftness on crippled teammates or moa healing allies when is they need it instead fully random would change that mentality really quick.

arkealia.2713:

Jasper Defthand.3018:

This… Is what i have been waiting for!!!!! The only thing left on the table is a retooling of the sword #1 chain and I will have nothing left to come in here and kitten about.

Shortbow rework maybe? =3

The only thing on sb i would change is how #1 applies bleed, everything else on it is just fine.

the number 4 could use some love. perhaps inflict a couple of torment stacks as well.

What is the rationale for not doing something like this for our pets in PvP? Does Anet have any idea how much aoe is in HoT? How do you keep a pet alive when tempest overloads their air attunement? Or how about when a reaper uses any shout? Guardian traps? We need some kind of passive damage mitigation for our pet in PvP too…

Photinous.4628:

What is the rationale for not doing something like this for our pets in PvP?

They have an idea. They don’t have the same capacity to code things that way for player-administered damage. With an NPC there’s always a definite somebody at the top of the aggro list. Players can be splashing damage all over the place with no clear target.

Chokolata.1870:

the number 4 could use some love. perhaps inflict a couple of torment stacks as well.

I would love to see the animation and range nerfs reversed…

Justine.6351:

95% looks extreme. Ohwell ;-)

Depends on the way you look at it.
Pets are source of our DPS that no one else was hindered by (except mesmers that had an easy “refresh” on them).

If we think about how unfair it was till now – it doesn’t really look extreme. It does solve most of our pet problems, though. And that’s how it should be.
Reliability for PvE just got buffed by tons. And we really needed this change.

Ranger pets need a complete code re-invention to be much more like a “second body” for the ranger, something that provides a unique tactical, fluid cohesion.

That’s what the mechanic should have been from the beginning, or it’s not worthy of being a core mechanic. Right now Rangers have one minimally-responsive pet as their core mechanic in a field where other classes have armies of ‘pets’ at their disposal. When I fight rangers, as long as I’m not standing still I’m almost entirely ignoring their pets to no ill effect.

If I prime my Black Widow with immobilize before engaging a target, it will be a good five+ seconds before that target is immobilized. I don’t need to point out how ridiculous that is.

Okay, so now we have a change that keeps pets from dying in big fights/boss fights. Well..so what? They don’t contribute anything to these anyway!

Nike.2631:

Photinous.4628:

What is the rationale for not doing something like this for our pets in PvP?

They have an idea. They don’t have the same capacity to code things that way for player-administered damage. With an NPC there’s always a definite somebody at the top of the aggro list. Players can be splashing damage all over the place with no clear target.

They could just give the pets a blanket damage reduction then. Or when the pet takes damage, check to see if it was targeted, if it was not, then halve the damage.

They already have the code for Playing Favorites Mistlock Instability, just apply that globally to PvP when damaging pets.

Spirits need this in PvP anet..

Thank you! Thank You! THANK YOU!

Gaile Gray.6029:

Remember, you’ve seen that many designers are actively reviewing professions. So don’t give up hope, and be sure to keep in mind that the devs have to look at the big picture as well as the small. There is a lot of careful and critical review taking place, and I have a feeling there will be other changes in the future. (And no, I don’t know what they are, but I’m glad that the professions are getting so much attention these days, and this change seems a really great step in the right direction!)

After the ridiculous nerf in Celestial Form (so ridiculous that I still think it is a bug) and now a hard nerf (-50% damage and removal of the on demand smoke field making it now AI controlled …) to the only good thing that happened to ranger in that expansion, the smokescale, can you come back here and tell us to not give up hope?
Was there ever any update where rangers got buff without a trade off or followed by a hard nerf?

Pikka.6023:

Ranger pets need a complete code re-invention to be much more like a “second body” for the ranger, something that provides a unique tactical, fluid cohesion.

That’s what the mechanic should have been from the beginning, or it’s not worthy of being a core mechanic. Right now Rangers have one minimally-responsive pet as their core mechanic in a field where other classes have armies of ‘pets’ at their disposal. When I fight rangers, as long as I’m not standing still I’m almost entirely ignoring their pets to no ill effect.

If I prime my Black Widow with immobilize before engaging a target, it will be a good five+ seconds before that target is immobilized. I don’t need to point out how ridiculous that is.

Okay, so now we have a change that keeps pets from dying in big fights/boss fights. Well..so what? They don’t contribute anything to these anyway!

your post got me thinking,

i might be kittening outside the bucket but here goes

1. remove pets for druids (trust me no one will notice)
2. make celestial avatar our “class mechanic”
3. make celestial avatar mechanic like the death/reaper shroud
(same build up style,same cooldown mechanic same extra health bar, same everything) but instead of facemelting pewpew skills , It would be godly life giving skills)

4. BONUS. like that reaper shroud epic looking cosmetic staff/scythe thing they getwhile transfored, give us an epic… anything really… a rock if its too hard to code

Edit: oh yeah… 1a) pets account in theory for 25-30% of our damage, as a druid with no pet, give us that 30% damage to staff.

5% damage reduction is nothing. I have no idea why people think this is going to help.

Even if someone takes 1000 pts of damage, that 5% isn’t even noticeable.
I guess thanks for something, anyway.

Ramethzero.3785:

5% damage reduction is nothing. I have no idea why people think this is going to help.

Even if someone takes 1000 pts of damage, that 5% isn’t even noticeable.
I guess thanks for something, anyway.

Its 95% reduction, not 5% reduction.

Hrm. I misinterpreted then. 95% total overall reduction is a much nicer game changer. Thanks for clarification on that.

I’ve not really played either of my rangers since the HoT dropped. Spent it all on my Ele.

Ramethzero.3785:

Hrm. I misinterpreted then. 95% total overall reduction is a much nicer game changer.

It is indeed. Pets and spirits are wayyyy better now in PvE. With the current state of the Druid and Smokescale, this minion damage reduction is the single best thing that happened to the class with the expansion. I just wish it also applied in wvw.

So this is why I could ignore pet management a lot of the time. My pets, currently Rumble and Rathalos, are having fun taking relevant damage from very, very little. So instead of taking a heal skill that helps my pet I’ve been using the Druid Glyph and kind of ignoring them. I’m enjoying not having pet downtime, ever.

SqualZell.7813:

1. remove pets for druids (trust me no one will notice)

it may surprise you but I would notice that
and I’d be really unhappy about that

Gaile Gray.6029:

Swagger.1459:

Gaile Gray.6029:

Remember, you’ve seen that many designers are actively reviewing professions. So don’t give up hope, and be sure to keep in mind that the devs have to look at the big picture as well as the small. There is a lot of careful and critical review taking place, and I have a feeling there will be other changes in the future. (And no, I don’t know what they are, but I’m glad that the professions are getting so much attention these days, and this change seems a really great step in the right direction!)

We are angry, bitter and venting many years of frustration Gaile, don’t go waving the happy wand around these parts! Get off our lawn!

Man, and rangers, as a rule, are usually so nice! Well, all I can say is "HUMPH!!*

PLZ give me my Tiger im sick and tired of that 2h event which i have to camp for my PROFESSION skills, what a poor poor game design is that PLZ CHANGE IT and chage it NOW

Prophet.1584:

Zenith.7301:

Justine.6351:

Zenith.7301:

Justine.6351:

95% looks extreme. Ohwell ;-)

Please don’t start with this crap. If you think 95% is extreme then you haven’t played PvE at a high level at all.

Mesmer illusions have 7-10k HP at most, mobs in fractal 50 swing for 7k autoattacks and some abilities hit as hard as 16-20k damage. We need that level of mitigation to sustain more fragile minions.

20k x .05 = 1k dmg.

I may not lvl 50 fractal but that seems excessive. Any other place in pve/wvw(yeah there are npcs ingame beside pve/lvl 50 fractal) it will 100% carry. I’m not upset, I can take the most glass pet over devourer and not have to manage pet or watch healthbar anymore.

Now multiply that by multiple sources. I take it you haven’t done Verdant Brink dynamic events on a mesmer. The amount of deadly AoE spam, especially on the Wyvern encounter, requires THAT kind of mitigation.

Correction 20k x 0.5 = 10k dmg. that equals dead pet

95% of 20k = 1k, which may be a bit too high but they are looking at it. I figure it’ll get down to the 60-70% mark eventually.

Very very very happy with the change, i’m glad spirits are being made viable and my pet won’t drop dead as I walk into a raid zone!

20k x 0.5 (that means 50% not 5%)
5% would be x0.05

sry you also did your math the wrong direction. 95% of 20k is 19k (not 1k). so if your pet gets hit for 20k damage it will be reduced by 19k thus only receiving 1k damage.

so in the end it is EXTREMELY favorable towards rangers. Specially in PvP and WvW where people tend to ignore our pets.