Guild Wars 2

They need a 1200m leash, they follow targets way too far, its not right.

Once they get far enough they heal like they are out of combat if there master is.

Necromancer Minions leash, Ranger pets should as well. Otherwise out of combat regeneration needs removed.

Hmmm.

A pet can’t just be 30% of your damage that can die, it needs to bring something to the table that’s beneficial or it’s just not a proper profession mechanic. Pets being the only weapon in the game that can hit something above 1500 units away is one of the few pros we have to counterbalance a long agonizing list of cons. If we want to take that off the table, I think it’s a fair discussion point; but there’s got to be an equivalent exchange.

Pet mechanics just don’t have very many functions they can serve in PvP games. It’s prettymuch either Chasing or Area Denial. So which is a more frightening prospect; a pet that can come after you from 2,800 units away and chase you up to 5,000 units but can be outrun, or a pet restricted to 1,200 units that will hit you absolutely without question?

Daecollo.9578:

They need a 1200m leash, they follow targets way too far, its not right.

Once they get far enough they heal like they are out of combat if there master is.

1. Maybe they need a shorter leash, but who are you to say that leash should be 1200m? Hell no. Just no.

2. If they heal like that (never seen that), then that is a bug.

Pet leash range was already mentioned in a SoTG with Anet developers. I think they acknowledged that it was a little high? In Battle of Khylo (clock tower map), it’s ridiculous that I can send my pet all the way to clock tower from the side points. So I expect that a reduction in leash range is already on its way.

However, 1200 would be stupidly short – especially given that longbow range can get up to 1500. I would expect you’ll see something like 2000 for range.

Regarding pet healing:
Yes, they heal very quickly when the ranger is out of combat. Attacking the pet does not keep the ranger in combat. But, if the pet attacks you, the ranger is in combat. So it’s not like a pet will be killing you with out-of-combat healing. That never happens. And if a pet is running away from you, you shouldn’t be wasting your time hitting it anyways.

Daecollo.9578:

They need a 1200m leash, they follow targets way too far, its not right.

Once they get far enough they heal like they are out of combat if there master is.

Necromancer Minions leash, Ranger pets should as well. Otherwise out of combat regeneration needs removed.

hmm…that cud be a cheap way to down me some champions pretty easily

Mesmer portal. Thief Shadow trap especially. 10000 range and we can’t have our pets be useful? Come on. Its only single target damage too. This is a key ranger mechanic and not something that should be changed. Keeping people in combat is lame though but this has all been discussed in other threads.

You kinda failed to mention how exactly this is a problem? The pet aren’t really capable of downing you on its own. You can easily outrun it with increased movement speed, or just avoid its damage by running in circles.

Just no when the pet run to far press F3 thats What its for, I personally think it should be 5000 range.

Daecollo.9578:

They need a 1200m leash, they follow targets way too far, its not right.

Once they get far enough they heal like they are out of combat if there master is.
.

1. That’s a ridiculously short leash. A traited longbow can shoot at about 1800, you can’t make the pet leash shorter than that. Anyway, the pet won’t start attacking anything that is too far.

2. A ranger won’t leave combat if the pet is attacking, and the pet won’t heal if it’s being attacked even if the ranger is out of combat.

They regen for being out of combat because the pet was chasing but not hitting. If the pet attacks (hit or miss) or is hit, both the pet and ranger are now in combat. This also means that, unless you are attacking something (or even attacking the pet but missing for some reason) or being hit, you too will be considered out of combat and heal back up.

I have, with a BM tank build, sent my pet after up levels and have killed them by pet alone but this is rare as it tends to happen to those who are under geared (being up leveled) and/or they actually try and fight the pet to realize too late that the pet is stronger.

I also take advantage of the range and the lack for needing line of sight to use my pet to attack siege equipment (ie. trebs).

All you need to do, is run. Remember that if you strafe you are not running as fast as a forward run. A pet with an increase movement speed won’t change anything either. Since the pet has to stop to attack and there is an animation based cast time, so long as you are not crippled, immobilized, stunned, or chilled (did I miss any?), you will be out of range by the time the pet finishes with the cast time. Unfortunately our pets are very limited to being able to reduce movement speeds. Since, well, the skills that can have a cast time.

Leash the pet in spvp if and only if top teams agree it’s OP. Do not leash in wvw or pve (for obvious reasons as a class mechanic: sending pets to attack siege, or tank mobs while kiting).

I just wanted to say, since some seems to think otherwise:

It’s perfectly legit that a ranger pet can kill a player!

Getting upset because you got killed by a ranger pet and because of that claiming that pets are op in a trillion different ways is just ignorant.

Since there are some loudmouths trolling the forums these days, campaigning against rangers to the point even plenty of people on this part of the forum are starting to fall for the “op rangers” talk, I thought that stating the obvious was needed.

Daecollo.9578:

They need a 1200m leash, they follow targets way too far, its not right.

Once they get far enough they heal like they are out of combat if there master is.

Necromancer Minions leash, Ranger pets should as well. Otherwise out of combat regeneration needs removed.

F3.

As a Minionmancer I have to say this: “Deal with it”

Your pets are god tier. Be happy.

Daecollo.9578:

They need a 1200m leash, they follow targets way too far, its not right.

Once they get far enough they heal like they are out of combat if there master is.

Necromancer Minions leash, Ranger pets should as well. Otherwise out of combat regeneration needs removed.

Maybe if they were like warrior banners and could not be killed. Until then no range should be placed on them.

The comparison to warrior banners is nonsensical. Meaning that it makes no sense. The two aren’t remotely similar.

I’m not entirely against a leash range for pets, but it would have to be quite large.

The problem I’m seeing that now WvWvW doesn’t have culling, the pet and the player can still see you even when your really really far away. If the pet is far enough away from the player hes essencially (out of combat.) because the player is leashing.

When that happens, rangers can just sit back and use artillery for example, while there invincible pet tanks 2-3 players (its using all its buffs+out of combat regeneration.)

Its really not fair, if you think otherwise then you should really rethink balance.

Daecollo.9578:

The problem I’m seeing that now WvWvW doesn’t have culling, the pet and the player can still see you even when your really really far away. If the pet is far enough away from the player hes essencially (out of combat.) because the player is leashing.

When that happens, rangers can just sit back and use artillery for example, while there invincible pet tanks 2-3 players (its using all its buffs+out of combat regeneration.)

Its really not fair, if you think otherwise then you should really rethink balance.

It would be useful for you to read what has been said here, and also use some common sense.

If a pet is attacked, neither it nor the ranger are put into combat. But if the pet does attack, regardless of the distance between it and the ranger, both are put into combat.

If 1 pet is taking on 2-3 players then the players are absolutely kitten. Even with full bm and buffs (which only last a few seconds, unless there’s someone buffing the ranger constantly), there’s no reason it should take that many people to kill a pet.

Semil.8279:

Daecollo.9578:

The problem I’m seeing that now WvWvW doesn’t have culling, the pet and the player can still see you even when your really really far away. If the pet is far enough away from the player hes essencially (out of combat.) because the player is leashing.

When that happens, rangers can just sit back and use artillery for example, while there invincible pet tanks 2-3 players (its using all its buffs+out of combat regeneration.)

Its really not fair, if you think otherwise then you should really rethink balance.

It would be useful for you to read what has been said here, and also use some common sense.

If a pet is attacked, neither it nor the ranger are put into combat. But if the pet does attack, regardless of the distance between it and the ranger, both are put into combat.

If 1 pet is taking on 2-3 players then the players are absolutely kitten. Even with full bm and buffs (which only last a few seconds, unless there’s someone buffing the ranger constantly), there’s no reason it should take that many people to kill a pet.

The pets i’ve encountered in WvWvW when they are far enough heal for 30-50% of there life every second, basicly “out of combat” regeneration.

Its like the Necromancer’s golem, except the golem leashes when targets are too far away, however PET AI is special and does not apparently.

I’ve never seen this in PvE or WvW. But I’ve also never seen people run away from my pet.

Ah, Warrior Daecollo graced us with his presence and brought his warped views of reality again I see…? What happened? Did you have a bear chasing your kitten in WvW and now you’re making stuff up just to see it nerfed?

Make a video of these pets being supposedly invincible and show it to us or go away. But none of these figments of your imagination and no photoshopped images! kkthxbai

Daecollo, wth are you on about pet healing for 30-50% more when they are far enough away from the ranger, even though they are in combat? I’ve never heard or seen this.

IF there’s any truth in what you’re saying, that would be a bug that should be fixed, and of course will be fixed. But again, I’ve never, ever heard about this before. Strange that it pops up now, when there are some loudmouths on the forums working their kitten off in an effort to nerf rangers.

Just ignore him – he’s a troll. Won’t be pleased till warriors have a “press 1 to kill area” button.

@quoted from SPVP Forums

Since rangers can only tell the pet to attack a target within ~1200 range (might be 1500 but still), yet the pet can travel up to I believe ~4000 range (could be less or more, just guess-timating) to the point where the ranger is no longer even considered in combat, it doesn’t seem like an intended function.

1800-2000 should probably be the maximum range (slightly outside of bow range). Current F1 range should be the minimum (about ~1200-1500).

It works exactly like this. Many rangers are exploiting this bug in WvWvW and teams of rangers are running around using this trick to kill roamers.

So you demand nerfs based on a random thing, a random person said?
Without checking it for yourself first?

Rengaru.4730:

So you demand nerfs based on a random thing, a random person said?
Without checking it for yourself first?

It wasn’t random, It had happend to be before as well, its not something you really notice until its on the other end.

It may be fun and cool for the ranger, but not everyone else.

Also, not a nerf but a fix.

Just make it so that if pet is in combat so is ranger.

Eurantien.4632:

Just make it so that if pet is in combat so is ranger.

This is how it is now – if my pet attacks something, I’m in combat, regardless of what I happen to be doing. If this breaks at large range, it needs to be fixed. It doesn’t, as far as I can tell, ever break though. At least, I couldn’t get my pet to attack anything, regardless of range, without being considered in combat.

Daecollo.9578:

Rengaru.4730:

So you demand nerfs based on a random thing, a random person said?
Without checking it for yourself first?

It wasn’t random, It had happend to be before as well, its not something you really notice until its on the other end.

It may be fun and cool for the ranger, but not everyone else.

Also, not a nerf but a fix.

I will rephrase that:
It doesn’t work.
Create a Ranger go to the Heart of the Mists and try it for yourself.

Rengaru.4730:

Daecollo.9578:

Rengaru.4730:

So you demand nerfs based on a random thing, a random person said?
Without checking it for yourself first?

It wasn’t random, It had happend to be before as well, its not something you really notice until its on the other end.

It may be fun and cool for the ranger, but not everyone else.

Also, not a nerf but a fix.

I will rephrase that:
It doesn’t work.
Create a Ranger go to the Heart of the Mists and try it for yourself.

Did you have LoS to your pet?

Daecollo.9578:

Did you have LoS to your pet?

Doesn’t matter.
I tried it with LoS and just now did without LoS.
Same result: Im stuck in combat until my pet kills the target or gets too far away (around 4000-5000 range units) from me.

edit:
Wow, so I just randomly browsed other subforums and saw this

Daecollo.9578:

With the new traps coming into play, revealed should be completely removed, its not needed anymore if you can trap a stealthed foe.

Im sorry, I will stop posting in this thread.
I just can’t take you serious anymore.

Rengaru.4730:

Daecollo.9578:

Did you have LoS to your pet?

Doesn’t matter.
I tried it with LoS and just now did without LoS.
Same result: Im stuck in combat until my pet kills the target or gets too far away (around 4000-5000 range units) from me.

That depends on a MOVING target, if your pets attacking a target that its chasing (out of rank of you.) its still attacking it but continually missing, but since its constantly missing, every time it misses its considered out of combat until it hits, then if it misses again its out of combat, its something you really need to do in WvWvW and not on a practice dummy.

“If your 5000 meters away, and the pet is still chasing a target “especially a player.” it will try to hit it, and if it misses it will be out of combat for those few seconds until it does hit, then its placed in combat again for a second, then out again."

It should have a 2000m Leash Limit and as long as your pet is chasing something you should be in combat.

stale.9785:

Eurantien.4632:

Just make it so that if pet is in combat so is ranger.

This is how it is now – if my pet attacks something, I’m in combat, regardless of what I happen to be doing. If this breaks at large range, it needs to be fixed. It doesn’t, as far as I can tell, ever break though. At least, I couldn’t get my pet to attack anything, regardless of range, without being considered in combat.

I can have my pet attack someone I can pull off of them get out of combat and full heal and then go back in while they have been in combat the whole time.

If the range is 2000 and you CC me then turn around and RTL with swiftness or what have you is my pet supposed to stop going after you because you can out run me?

He quoted me by the way, and yes, I can confirm that there is something going on with ranger pets where if you have engaged your pet but then reach a certain distance away from it (without attacking), the pet will continue to attack even though it is out of combat.

I do this frequently in WvW, I’ll tell my pet to attack a door, then I’ll back out of combat and switch utilities (if I want to switch in a spirit for the heck of it, or switch to my longbow).

The only thing I can’t confirm is whether or not the pet also acts as if it’s in combat as well.

I haven’t even been WvWing that long (only a week or so) and I’ve noticed and abuse it to this degree, but in s/tpvp, I’ll get my pet to attack whoever is holding mid, then I go back and bunker the side point. Now I’m essentially at two entirely different parts of the map, pressuring a target at one point, while holding a point at the other.

I mean, I know we all have a lot of ranger pride, but there has to be a point where we acknowledge that a mechanic like that is a little broken, especially since you can’t even sic your pet on a target outside of the 1200-1500(guess-timated, but still a limited range) range I mentioned. So why should it be attacking something 4000 range away, even though I can’t make it go that far with the F1 key.

I know there are people in the ranger community that will probably rage at me on this, but I don’t care, because I’m actually able to acknowledge that this current implementation has some exploitable behavior, as well as it having a quirky feel.

jcbroe.4329:

He quoted me by the way, and yes, I can confirm that there is something going on with ranger pets where if you have engaged your pet but then reach a certain distance away from it (without attacking), the pet will continue to attack even though it is out of combat.

I do this frequently in WvW, I’ll tell my pet to attack a door, then I’ll back out of combat and switch utilities (if I want to switch in a spirit for the heck of it, or switch to my longbow).

The only thing I can’t confirm is whether or not the pet also acts as if it’s in combat as well.

I haven’t even been WvWing that long (only a week or so) and I’ve noticed and abuse it to this degree, but in s/tpvp, I’ll get my pet to attack whoever is holding mid, then I go back and bunker the side point. Now I’m essentially at two entirely different parts of the map, pressuring a target at one point, while holding a point at the other.

I mean, I know we all have a lot of ranger pride, but there has to be a point where we acknowledge that a mechanic like that is a little broken, especially since you can’t even sic your pet on a target outside of the 1200-1500(guess-timated, but still a limited range) range I mentioned. So why should it be attacking something 4000 range away, even though I can’t make it go that far with the F1 key.

I know there are people in the ranger community that will probably rage at me on this, but I don’t care, because I’m actually able to acknowledge that this current implementation has some exploitable behavior, as well as it having a quirky feel.

If that’s how it’s working then it is indeed broken – I suppose I’ve never left my pet attacking something in WvWvW and myself moved onto something else.

Needs a fix – the obvious one being making sure the ranger remains in combat as long as the pet is engaged. That should result in normal combat situations for HP regen, which is the root of the complaint.

Other than the combat situation the leash range needs to stay because it is a core part of what makes rangers good. However, we should not be able to be halfway across the map and hit F3 and have our pet insta return to use without having to pet swap. If we choose to let half of ourselves go then we should have to swap pets of have that half return to us the slow way.

stale.9785:

jcbroe.4329:

He quoted me by the way, and yes, I can confirm that there is something going on with ranger pets where if you have engaged your pet but then reach a certain distance away from it (without attacking), the pet will continue to attack even though it is out of combat.

I do this frequently in WvW, I’ll tell my pet to attack a door, then I’ll back out of combat and switch utilities (if I want to switch in a spirit for the heck of it, or switch to my longbow).

The only thing I can’t confirm is whether or not the pet also acts as if it’s in combat as well.

I haven’t even been WvWing that long (only a week or so) and I’ve noticed and abuse it to this degree, but in s/tpvp, I’ll get my pet to attack whoever is holding mid, then I go back and bunker the side point. Now I’m essentially at two entirely different parts of the map, pressuring a target at one point, while holding a point at the other.

I mean, I know we all have a lot of ranger pride, but there has to be a point where we acknowledge that a mechanic like that is a little broken, especially since you can’t even sic your pet on a target outside of the 1200-1500(guess-timated, but still a limited range) range I mentioned. So why should it be attacking something 4000 range away, even though I can’t make it go that far with the F1 key.

I know there are people in the ranger community that will probably rage at me on this, but I don’t care, because I’m actually able to acknowledge that this current implementation has some exploitable behavior, as well as it having a quirky feel.

If that’s how it’s working then it is indeed broken – I suppose I’ve never left my pet attacking something in WvWvW and myself moved onto something else.

Needs a fix – the obvious one being making sure the ranger remains in combat as long as the pet is engaged. That should result in normal combat situations for HP regen, which is the root of the complaint.

Well the other part of the complaint comes from the esport/competitive thought process part of the game.

In sPvP/tPvP, you can run to mid, sic the pet on a target, then run back and hold home node. This is basically hitting somebody with like a 4000 range DPS, but worse than that, it is AI controlled. Meaning that you have essentially used a homing damage source on somebody while you go off and do something else.

It requires little to no management (other than calling back/switching pets if it gets close to death), and with how high the passive regen is, it is almost impractical to attack the pet, especially since the ranger will in general use this tactic during a team fight so that the pet isn’t the only target.
The mindset is that there is no counter play for this, and the playstyle itself isn’t engaging for the player. It isn’t like the player has to control where the pet moves or what attack the pet uses; they can literally just sic the pet on somebody then go and support/contest and entirely different area of the map.

If you read through the spvp threads about this, it is not considered something that is healthy for the metagame. Personally, I accept how powerful it is and I will use it until it gets fixed or there is a stronger build available to rangers.

I’m not going to be one to say who is wrong or right, because we all have our own opinions on this. All I’m saying for myself is that it doesn’t make logical sense that I can only sic my pet on a target that is 1200-1500 range away, but it will continue to attack that target even when I’m 4000 range away.

Regardless of what change gets made in the end, if that is the way pets function, F1 should function at the entire length of the leash range, regardless of what the final range is. (basically, I’m saying why can’t I sic my pet on a target that is far away, but it will attack a target that is far away?).

The mindset that there is no counter play is a faulty one. Players wants to ignore our pets, that’s the core of the issue, they don’t want to “waste time” on fighting the pet. Well, I would like to ignore mesmer phantasms as well, but that can prove to be a fatal mistake.

You can send your pet to attack targets at far greater distance than 1500, not sure where you got that information from? Just go to the mists and see for yourself. A pet is not a weapon like a sword or a bow, and should therefore not be bound by the same limitations, that’s rather logical imho. It’s our core mechanic, don’t try to dumb it down to the status of yet another weapon, because it’s not.
Of course we should be able to perform things with our class mechanic that are unique to us, just as all the other classes can perform things that are unique to them through their class mechanics.

There also needs to be an area that extends over the maximum distance that you can send your pet, where the pet can move around in, otherwise one small step back by your enemy would instantly send our pets back to us, and that would be a bad, bad mechanic.

In other words – as it works today, more or less.

OGDeadHead.8326:

The mindset that there is no counter play is a faulty one. Players wants to ignore our pets, that’s the core of the issue, they don’t want to “waste time” on fighting the pet. Well, I would like to ignore mesmer phantasms as well, but that can prove to be a fatal mistake.

You can send your pet to attack targets at far greater distance than 1500, not sure where you got that information from? Just go to the mists and see for yourself. A pet is not a weapon like a sword or a bow, and should therefore not be bound by the same limitations, that’s rather logical imho. It’s our core mechanic, don’t try to dumb it down to the status of yet another weapon, because it’s not.
Of course we should be able to perform things with our class mechanic that are unique to us, just as all the other classes can perform things that are unique to them through their class mechanics.

There also needs to be an area that extends over the maximum distance that you can send your pet, where the pet can move around in, otherwise one small step back by your enemy would instantly send our pets back to us, and that would be a bad, bad mechanic.

In other words – as it works today, more or less.

I was testing it from an arbitrary guess-timation standpoint. But if I had to actually measure (since I don’t have a measuring tape) the F1 range seems to be around 2500-3000 in the mists.
But I also tested the leash range, and it’s somewhere between 6000-7000 range. Meaning I can do things like cap on mid point(or at least contribute to the midpoint fight) while my pet attacks a treb on khylo, or again, get the pet on mid while defending a different node.

So basically, we have a bot tethered to ourselves, and we tell that bot to go and attack something while we go and do something else (in a general metaphorical sense). Some people might enjoy that something is playing the game for them, but again, it is not a competitive concept. It is a mind-numbingly easy build to play in pvp (that or I’ve been playing ranger way too long) and the ability to basically send a bot to attack something then dodge around until that something dies is not competitive because it lacks any sort of intuitive design.

And counter play? Okay. You’re defending mid, I ranger runs up to where they can sic the pet on you, then leaves back to their node. There are really 3 options:
-let the pet attack you, try to ignore it, and continue to defend the point
okay great, if the pet wasn’t able to hit upwards of 2k damage at times, weakening you significantly so that you are at a disadvantage in any fight.
-leave the node the opposite direction until the pet leash is hit and it disappears.
okay, now you’re probably at least 1000 range off of any node you were on, and a team could be on it, neutralize it, and capture it because you left to mitigate damage
-kill the pet
okay, except pets are fairly durable with the right build, and you will probably have to burn some cooldowns to kill it, putting you at a disadvantage if they come to take the node from you

The only other option is to go after the ranger, which is the same as the second scenario, you leave the current node unprotected to be captured.
Not a single option there is presents a counter play option that isn’t detrimental to you or the progress of your team.

In PvE, pets are fine. In WvW, pets are probably fine too. But in spvp, with the node system currently being the only game mode, the leash is much too far with what the pet is capable of accomplishing.

I don’t see why I have to take flak just because I’m a ranger player admitting that there is an exploitable mechanic. I can go out of combat while my pet attacks something. That is the icing on the cake right there.

jcbroe.4329:

So basically, we have a bot tethered to ourselves, and we tell that bot to go and attack something while we go and do something else (in a general metaphorical sense). Some people might enjoy that something is playing the game for them, but again, it is not a competitive concept. It is a mind-numbingly easy build to play in pvp (that or I’ve been playing ranger way too long) and the ability to basically send a bot to attack something then dodge around until that something dies is not competitive because it lacks any sort of intuitive design.

I’d have to ask then, what good is an AI NPC that can be easily outsmarted? They currently are pretty easy to outsmart, you just run around in a manner so they can’t hit you, outrun them or kill them. It’s hardly ‘having a bot play for you’ since relying on it will basically get your slower results than any other method in the game and said bot cannot be precisely controlled at all even within 1200 range.

If a change should be made, it probably should be to keep both Ranger and Pet in combat when when either is in combat. The main advantage of Ranger is that they can do 2 things at once (one of those things at less efficiency though) and I’d hate for that to change.

But I feel this issue is more a concern with the whole ‘out of combat’ mechanic to begin with. It feels tacky that players can just exit combat and refill an infinite amount of times with no limit. A good balance for WvW would likely be to just nerf all instances of ‘out of combat’ recovery by putting a timer on how often you can do so. That’d automatically fix the pet issue, as it’d be impossible to constantly shift in and out of combat, but also cull other annoying issues like how long-distance jumps + cleanse is pretty much a full heal.

So leash is too long in pvp. Well, it might be. What if you were to use “Guard” on one node, and you yourself were to head to another node, that wouldn’t be ok either? Is mesmer portal ok?

(Speaking of mesmers, what’s the leash ranger on their phantasm and illusions? Just curious, since I’ve had them follow me a great distance while the mesmer himself sets off in another direction.)

If splitting up pet on one location, and ranger on one location, that’s basically half a character on each location. Or are people honestly claiming that ranger without pet is as strong as other classes? Or that the pet alone without the ranger is as strong as a real class?

And again about the pet being able to attack stuff while you are out of combat. I honestly never thought of this, but if this is indeed how it works, it’s a bug and should be fixed asap – simple as that. Can’t say I’ve seen it though, will have to check more carefully.

Ya I agree with OGDeadHead. When we are split up from our pet we are significantly weaker. No one is “playing the game for us” when we send our pet off. The leash range is good but allowing the pet to insta-return by using pet F3 is not ok (F4 is ok). Because if we choose to send off a pet we should have to swap or have it run back (usually it does have to run back pretty far). But in the end we are much weaker without our pet within a 600 unit range because anything beyond gives us 0 condition removal.

The problem is that is what it does, it just happens when the ranger is usually 2000m range it keeps the target in combat but not the ranger because both are really far away. So the ranger’s pet is constantly getting in combat for its hits then phasing out and healing instantly. All because its so far away chasing.

Now I agree they could get a “Attack” while moving moreso buff to compensate for this fix, but I don’t agree that the god-pet should be allowed to heal up so quickly, its already hard to kill enough. I have 94% critical damage and 100% critical and it tanks my 100b better then most players can ridiculous. Lol.

Like I’ve said numerous times already Daecollo, if that’s indeed how it works it should of course be fixed. I see that as a bug, and I would think all rangers can agree on that.

It’s really simple – if the ranger or the pet is fighting something, both should be in combat state, ’nuff said.

Leo G.4501:

I’d have to ask then, what good is an AI NPC that can be easily outsmarted? They currently are pretty easy to outsmart, you just run around in a manner so they can’t hit you, outrun them or kill them. It’s hardly ‘having a bot play for you’ since relying on it will basically get your slower results than any other method in the game and said bot cannot be precisely controlled at all even within 1200 range.

If a change should be made, it probably should be to keep both Ranger and Pet in combat when when either is in combat. The main advantage of Ranger is that they can do 2 things at once (one of those things at less efficiency though) and I’d hate for that to change.

But I feel this issue is more a concern with the whole ‘out of combat’ mechanic to begin with. It feels tacky that players can just exit combat and refill an infinite amount of times with no limit. A good balance for WvW would likely be to just nerf all instances of ‘out of combat’ recovery by putting a timer on how often you can do so. That’d automatically fix the pet issue, as it’d be impossible to constantly shift in and out of combat, but also cull other annoying issues like how long-distance jumps + cleanse is pretty much a full heal.

The point is that it is a node capture system. You can sit on a point, tell the pet to attack something, then literally just dodge around and not die. It doesn’t have to kill them, you just have to not die, and the pet the entire time is pressuring the person without you having to really do anything.

You can literally push F1, then dodge around, use our weapon evades, swap with energy sigil, use more evades and dodges, and repeat, while sitting on a node wracking up points, while the pet when it hits is capable of doing up to about 2k damage.

Granted it isn’t the only bunker in the game, and there are other bunker classes (particularly guardians) that have other means of just sitting on a node and keeping it from being neutralized, but if those guardians were to attempt to do damage, it would be another ability they would have to juggle along with staying alive.

Rangers on the other hand can sic a pet on the target that does consistently strong damage, while the player can just keep themselves alive without even having the necessity to worry about a target, because the pet will eventually pressure them enough to make them leave the node, and the entire time you sit on it defending, you’re earning score towards winning the game.

YES, this is an inherent flaw with focusing the game 100% around node capturing, and yes, I’ve already said this is the only place where this is a broken mechanic.

However, a very simple fix would be to simply scale down the damage on the pets significantly, but scale up some their survival and the utility they’re capable of, then rework the traits in the line towards making them significantly buff the utility or capabilities of the redesigned pet mechanic.
The damage lost gets put back in to the ranger skillset. Now, when there is a faceoff, the pet is still a target worth focusing, because the utility it provides while still being able to pressure should be a significant boon towards the ranger. While at the same time, the ranger, in order to effectively fight somebody, now has to use the pet in a different manner other than a damage crutch while the player survives.

Instead, they now have to actively work with their pets to use the utility options in a fight, and in order to kill somebody or force somebody away from the point, the player is going to have to contribute more towards the damage output, which would involve more player skill, and make it more of a skill vs skill matchup than a survival+AI vs Skill matchup.

At this point in the theoretical pet design, it is also worth mentioning that there should be damage pets. But as such, these pets should perform like glass cannons in that sense, and should be sacrificing any redesigned utility function in order to achieve the damage they are capable of.

People can disagree all they want, but this is simply my opinion. I’ve had this opinion on pets since the month after the launch of the game when I started running the pet build in pvp, and there isn’t anything that can change that opinion. I will continue to play the class towards the strengths, I will continue to main ranger, and I will continue to love it.
But as far as I’m concerned, I’ve made my point, and I don’t feel the need to discuss it anymore, as it’s just opinion versus opinion. Ultimately, the majority of people should be agreeing at a basic sense that there is something going on with the pet leash thing right now that is a little off, or not working as intended, and it needs to be looked into, more from a pvp aspect of the game than anything else.

Besides that, the future of the class is ANets decision.

OGDeadHead.8326:

So leash is too long in pvp. Well, it might be. What if you were to use “Guard” on one node, and you yourself were to head to another node, that wouldn’t be ok either? Is mesmer portal ok?

(Speaking of mesmers, what’s the leash ranger on their phantasm and illusions? Just curious, since I’ve had them follow me a great distance while the mesmer himself sets off in another direction.)

If splitting up pet on one location, and ranger on one location, that’s basically half a character on each location. Or are people honestly claiming that ranger without pet is as strong as other classes? Or that the pet alone without the ranger is as strong as a real class?

And again about the pet being able to attack stuff while you are out of combat. I honestly never thought of this, but if this is indeed how it works, it’s a bug and should be fixed asap – simple as that. Can’t say I’ve seen it though, will have to check more carefully.

There’s nothing wrong with using guard to do this in my opinion. You’re burning a cooldown to create the function and sacrificing a utility slot you could’ve used for something else. Same opinion on mesmer portal. Sure, it’s a powerful utility, but it has to be utilized properly and shares a cooldown with some of the elites in the game, and mesmers are sacrificing a slot to take this skill over something else.

I wouldn’t be able to comment on the clone/phantasm range until I test it myself. But I can get an answer on that, and if there is a correlation, then I see where you’re going with it (not being a unique design for the ranger, and it being a balancing factor, which I would be obligated to agree if phantasms have a crazy leash range as well).

And no, I don’t think I’m claiming the pet is as strong as a class. But I do find the ability to do 2 different things on 2 different nodes at one time a little too efficient considering that if utilized appropriately it requires no cooldown and minimum micromanagement.

But getting past that a little, in the last SoTG, the devs acknowledged (in their own way) that it is a potential problem, and was on their list of things to keep on eye on (I’m probably paraphrasing).

So no matter how loud we are all with our opinions, it won’t matter much in the long run lol.

If our pets aren’t supposed to be a force to be reckoned with, you might just as well get rid of them, and rebuild the ranger class completely. They don’t hit nearly often enough vs a good player that knows the flaws in their ai.

Is it annoying to have a pet constantly chase you and try and take a bite out of your kitten For sure, and it kitten well should be!
Stealth is annoying as hell also, so are the illusions/clones/phantasms of mesmers, and guardians sanctuary skill and so on so forth.

Maybe I don’t get this, but here goes. How does a BM ranger without a pet hold a node? He won’t have the damage to kill most players me thinks.

Back on topic, the 2500-3000 F1 range sounds strange. I mostly play wvw, and I need to get into roughly 1500 range to send my pet on anyone. Doesn’t matter whether I’m attacking the target out of range or just pressing F1. An F1 range of 2000-2500 doesn’t sound OP considering the fact it needs to jog its way there. The max leash should be around 4000-5000 in wvw, might need different limit in sPvP due to smaller maps, defending 2 nodes at the same time (by standing in them) doesn’t sound ok to be honest. And if pets get out of combat healing when attacking, that needs to be fixed as well, as it is surely a bug.

Daecollo.9578:

@quoted from SPVP Forums

Since rangers can only tell the pet to attack a target within ~1200 range (might be 1500 but still), yet the pet can travel up to I believe ~4000 range (could be less or more, just guess-timating) to the point where the ranger is no longer even considered in combat, it doesn’t seem like an intended function.

1800-2000 should probably be the maximum range (slightly outside of bow range). Current F1 range should be the minimum (about ~1200-1500).

It works exactly like this. Many rangers are exploiting this bug in WvWvW and teams of rangers are running around using this trick to kill roamers.

Okay, the pet will chase that far. The ranger MUST get within range to be able to even tell it to attack in the first place.

I see no problem.

Daecollo.9578:

They need a 1200m leash, they follow targets way too far, its not right.

Once they get far enough they heal like they are out of combat if there master is.

Necromancer Minions leash, Ranger pets should as well. Otherwise out of combat regeneration needs removed.

You want the pet leash to be shorter than the range of their weapon?

A pet fighting a target will be in combat. They don’t get out of combat regen while fighting. What you are seeing is the in combat regen they have from a grand master trait and Signet of the Wild combined with the ranger heal which also heals the pet. Troll Unguent, Natural Healing, Signet of the Wild and Cleric’s armour can give the pet a lot of passive healing that might look like out of combat regen to ignorant people.

OGDeadHead.8326:

If our pets aren’t supposed to be a force to be reckoned with, you might just as well get rid of them, and rebuild the ranger class completely. They don’t hit nearly often enough vs a good player that knows the flaws in their ai.

Is it annoying to have a pet constantly chase you and try and take a bite out of your kitten For sure, and it kitten well should be!
Stealth is annoying as hell also, so are the illusions/clones/phantasms of mesmers, and guardians sanctuary skill and so on so forth.

That’s flawed logic. If a pet is poorly programmed with its ai and is only expected to hit 1/10 times, and the programmer intended its DPS to be 1000, they wouldn’t go about fixing the problem by making the pet hit for 10k damage because it rarely ever hits, they would fix it by fixing the ai so that it works as intended.

Bad AI shouldn’t create excuses, and there are no excuses for bad AI.