Guild Wars 2

Is piercing arrows worth it ? I mean all the traits in marksmanship are extremely bad and useless. Is it worth it to put 20 traits in marksmanship for it ?

I like this tree a lot for the added power… also, I sometimes use the extra longbow range or the trait that allows you to receive bonus from activating signets for the 6 seconds of invulnerability in pvp.

Also, since I did not answer your question… lol, I really like this skill… but only when fighting groups… it works well with the longbows number 4 shot… it pushes back everything rather then just one of the mobs. In pvp, it is not as effective because people are not often standing on top of one another.

It depends. There are times where it can come in handy and times where its kinda useless.

To hit some good times to use it:

Around large groups of mobs, just target 1 central target and run around in a circle pressing 1.

In dungeons where bosses have things that buff them (i.e. path 1 HOTW or path 1 COF) piercing arrows is good so you can target the boss and stand behind the object and hit both.

But like I said there are bad times to use it that would make the other only useful trait at 20 marksman more worth it (the +70 precision buff):

Monsters that are really spread out

Single boss fights that do not tend to spawn help

I personally have 20 marksman for the precision buff (gives about 4% crit chance at level 80) because it helps my build more than hitting 1 or 2 more targets would with piercing arrows, but what it really just boils down to is positioning.

It helped me take down three targets once in spvp. I was running a complete glass cannon build, and i use entangle, and as luck would have it, they all lined up. So i used quickness and signet of stone and demolished them lol

But yeah, i don’t like Power tree either. That vulnerability strike is completely garbage. The only good thing about the power tree is the Signet of the Beastmaster, which sadly makes you invest 30 points into this kitteny tree

I use it with longbow and love it. With my build I drop entangle, use barrage, target someone in the back then use the number 2 ability and numbers fly like crazy. In WvW the best use it gets is in taking down camps with 2 players but on occasion you can line up two or more player characters but usually the trade off is getting too close to maneuver the line up. I hardly see other players with it though I think the once in a blue moon collateral hit concerns people. I can’t imagine it being practical in PvP however.

i use it mainly for farming. Its good to use to hit multiple targets when they are all stacked on top of each other…. in order to get the maximum number of loot. (ofcourse you have to hit the target to get the loot)

Every additional mob you hit with each skill use is increasing your overall dps. I would venture to say piercing shots is necessary for any bow using ranger.

Yes I love piercing arrows. I use it for sPvP and WvW. I switch to eagle eye for longer range if I’m on a tower wall.

Sounds good on paper, but can still be blocked.
I went 20,20,10,10,10 for a long while due to the mediocrity of the grandmaster traits.

giving this a run now http://www.guildhead.com/skill-calc#mmoc0m0zMowhgMMrhgMxGaa0oaRoamc8070z7kiQ7070M7kIV707kIV

This trait is a must for any PvE build that uses a bow.

Yes, you won’t be able to get the pierce effect in every fight, but once you pierce even with 2 enemies, you are doubling your dps. There is no other talent that comes close to increasing your dps that much.

Your utility abilities on a bow also suddenly become AoE utility abilities. AoE stun, AoE cripple, etc.

By investing in marks, you’re also getting a boost to your power, which is your biggest dps stat.

There is simply no reason to pass it up if you’re doing any PvE.

i love piercing arrows, highly suggest it

I won’t go without this if I’m doing PvE with my crit build. It’s very nice however can get you in trouble in places like the Cursed Shore. I’ve had arrows go though my target and hit a random mob behind that was minding it’s own business and pissed it off. I’ve pulled a lot of extra trash that wasn’t needed.

Keep in mind that it’s limited to 3 targets max/arrow.

krojack.4920:

I won’t go without this if I’m doing PvE with my crit build. It’s very nice however can get you in trouble in places like the Cursed Shore. I’ve had arrows go though my target and hit a random mob behind that was minding it’s own business and pissed it off. I’ve pulled a lot of extra trash that wasn’t needed.

Keep in mind that it’s limited to 3 targets max/arrow.

I’ve gotten into trouble with it as well, but still believe its one of our “must have” traits! I often find myself looking for ways to line up a good chain with the short bow and longbow.

Just imagine: Short Bow 2 on a swarm of mobs. The five arrows pierce up to 3 targets each. Pure goodness.

This, along with ranged traps, is one of the reasons that rangers are one of the best farming characters for tagging mobs in events.

Dahkeus.8243:

This trait is a must for any PvE build that uses a bow.

Yes, you won’t be able to get the pierce effect in every fight, but once you pierce even with 2 enemies, you are doubling your dps. There is no other talent that comes close to increasing your dps that much.

Your utility abilities on a bow also suddenly become AoE utility abilities. AoE stun, AoE cripple, etc.

By investing in marks, you’re also getting a boost to your power, which is your biggest dps stat.

There is simply no reason to pass it up if you’re doing any PvE.

Your points would have more validity if the ranger didn’t have any weapons with built in AoE attacks, but we do, so it kind of negates the point of Piercing Arrows. It’s a nice trait if you want to use both bows, but I find that the shortbow and longbow don’t play well together.

I recently dropped all my points from Marksmanship, in favor of higher Wilderness Survival and Beast Mastery. I don’t miss Piercing Arrows at all.

Piercing Arrows is a great trait in pvp. It lets you stay locked onto hitting a target even if pets/other players get in the way-in fact it turns that into a positive scenario as you can damage multiple enemies!

It is also fabulous when you manage to root a couple of players and unload quickness and SB auto attack, you’ll likely get this chance a lot in Legacy of the Foefire when the enemy team is trying to take out your lord.

Quarktastic.1027:

…but I find that the shortbow and longbow don’t play well together.

Quite the contrary.

Forgoing another argument over Ranger buffs, a Short Bow and Longbow work very well together, provided you don’t take the trait to increase the Longbow’s range out to 1500.

At the time of this post, I’m using a Berserker spec with a Short Bow main weapon and a Longbow secondary. (I prefer the use of the Short Bow as my primary weapon because I can maintain consistent DPS from any distance)

My usual rotation is to burn through my Short Bow’s abilities (2 and 3), pop cooldowns and switch to Longbow. While switching weapons I gain Fury and unleash Hunter’s Shot followed by Rapid Fire with Quickening Zephyr for a massive burst of damage. I’ll then usually fire a Barrage followed by a second Hunter’s Shot before swapping back to Short Bow. By the time the weapon swap cooldown is up, all my Longbow abilities will be off cooldown and I can begin the rotation again.

I never want to stay in Longbow for very long because its autoattack is lackluster; however, the range penalty on damage does not apply to Rapid Fire, Barrage or Hunter’s Shot.

By using Longbow as a secondary weapon the two bows work very well together and Piercing Arrows becomes a must for this combo.

I almost exclusively WvW and find it useful. It can be swapped out with the Eagle Eye trait for extended range when you’re on top of a wall, or attacking others on top of a wall.

Quarktastic.1027:

Dahkeus.8243:

This trait is a must for any PvE build that uses a bow.

Yes, you won’t be able to get the pierce effect in every fight, but once you pierce even with 2 enemies, you are doubling your dps. There is no other talent that comes close to increasing your dps that much.

Your utility abilities on a bow also suddenly become AoE utility abilities. AoE stun, AoE cripple, etc.

By investing in marks, you’re also getting a boost to your power, which is your biggest dps stat.

There is simply no reason to pass it up if you’re doing any PvE.

Your points would have more validity if the ranger didn’t have any weapons with built in AoE attacks, but we do, so it kind of negates the point of Piercing Arrows. It’s a nice trait if you want to use both bows, but I find that the shortbow and longbow don’t play well together.

I recently dropped all my points from Marksmanship, in favor of higher Wilderness Survival and Beast Mastery. I don’t miss Piercing Arrows at all.

The shortbow is by far the highest damage weapon that a ranger has. The only way you can compete with this damage is to use something like the 1h sword with a torch offhand and that still only compares in an ideal situation where you’re able to stick on your target with the problematic rooting main attack and where you’re not attacking a target that already has a full duration of burning applied.

You can also tag a lot more mobs with piercing arrows than with a melee cleave weapon. Instead of chasing around mobs and having to have them grouped up, you can pivot at your position and unleash without any down time. When mobs are spread out, you can simply use Poison Volley.

So, yes, you can pick up a melee weapon for the cleave, but you’ll be doing significantly less damage and will need a bigger investment in survival talents. If you’re rolling with a tanky build, then that’s fine, but if you’re going for a damage dealing role, nothing compares to a short bow build with piercing arrows.

Dahkeus.8243:

Quarktastic.1027:

Dahkeus.8243:

This trait is a must for any PvE build that uses a bow.

Yes, you won’t be able to get the pierce effect in every fight, but once you pierce even with 2 enemies, you are doubling your dps. There is no other talent that comes close to increasing your dps that much.

Your utility abilities on a bow also suddenly become AoE utility abilities. AoE stun, AoE cripple, etc.

By investing in marks, you’re also getting a boost to your power, which is your biggest dps stat.

There is simply no reason to pass it up if you’re doing any PvE.

Your points would have more validity if the ranger didn’t have any weapons with built in AoE attacks, but we do, so it kind of negates the point of Piercing Arrows. It’s a nice trait if you want to use both bows, but I find that the shortbow and longbow don’t play well together.

I recently dropped all my points from Marksmanship, in favor of higher Wilderness Survival and Beast Mastery. I don’t miss Piercing Arrows at all.

The shortbow is by far the highest damage weapon that a ranger has. The only way you can compete with this damage is to use something like the 1h sword with a torch offhand and that still only compares in an ideal situation where you’re able to stick on your target with the problematic rooting main attack and where you’re not attacking a target that already has a full duration of burning applied.

You can also tag a lot more mobs with piercing arrows than with a melee cleave weapon. Instead of chasing around mobs and having to have them grouped up, you can pivot at your position and unleash without any down time. When mobs are spread out, you can simply use Poison Volley.

So, yes, you can pick up a melee weapon for the cleave, but you’ll be doing significantly less damage and will need a bigger investment in survival talents. If you’re rolling with a tanky build, then that’s fine, but if you’re going for a damage dealing role, nothing compares to a short bow build with piercing arrows.

You’re forgetting the mainhand axe can also hit 3 targets, and they don’t have to be lined up. In addition, if you’re only attacking two targets, Ricochet will actually deal more damage than crossfire, since it will hit one of the targets twice.

Quarktastic.1027:

Dahkeus.8243:

Quarktastic.1027:

Dahkeus.8243:

This trait is a must for any PvE build that uses a bow.

Yes, you won’t be able to get the pierce effect in every fight, but once you pierce even with 2 enemies, you are doubling your dps. There is no other talent that comes close to increasing your dps that much.

Your utility abilities on a bow also suddenly become AoE utility abilities. AoE stun, AoE cripple, etc.

By investing in marks, you’re also getting a boost to your power, which is your biggest dps stat.

There is simply no reason to pass it up if you’re doing any PvE.

Your points would have more validity if the ranger didn’t have any weapons with built in AoE attacks, but we do, so it kind of negates the point of Piercing Arrows. It’s a nice trait if you want to use both bows, but I find that the shortbow and longbow don’t play well together.

I recently dropped all my points from Marksmanship, in favor of higher Wilderness Survival and Beast Mastery. I don’t miss Piercing Arrows at all.

The shortbow is by far the highest damage weapon that a ranger has. The only way you can compete with this damage is to use something like the 1h sword with a torch offhand and that still only compares in an ideal situation where you’re able to stick on your target with the problematic rooting main attack and where you’re not attacking a target that already has a full duration of burning applied.

You can also tag a lot more mobs with piercing arrows than with a melee cleave weapon. Instead of chasing around mobs and having to have them grouped up, you can pivot at your position and unleash without any down time. When mobs are spread out, you can simply use Poison Volley.

So, yes, you can pick up a melee weapon for the cleave, but you’ll be doing significantly less damage and will need a bigger investment in survival talents. If you’re rolling with a tanky build, then that’s fine, but if you’re going for a damage dealing role, nothing compares to a short bow build with piercing arrows.

You’re forgetting the mainhand axe can also hit 3 targets, and they don’t have to be lined up. In addition, if you’re only attacking two targets, Ricochet will actually deal more damage than crossfire, since it will hit one of the targets twice.

The axe is our lowest dps weapon on its auto attack and can only come close to decent damage when you use splitblade on a target at melee range to stack bleeds.

Let me put it this way:
When there’s one enemy, the shortbow does about double the damage of the axe autoattack.
When there are two enemys, you may do slightly more damage to one target and half damage to the other by using an axe.
When there are 3 enemies, the axe still does half the damage of a shortbow hitting the same targets.
When there are more than 3 targets, your bow can hit every one that is lined up while your axe will only hit 3.

The lateral bouncing of an axe will hit targets that your linear bow attack won’t, but this doesn’t make up for the drastic loss in damage done per target along with the limit of targets that you can hit and as soon as you’re down to a single target fight, you’re at a very distinct disadvantage with the axe.

This is before we even take into account that you can apply bleeding, cripple, stun and poison while continuing to AoE with your shortbow.

It’s a good weapon, don’t get me wrong, but it’s just not practical to use one as your primary weapon. It’s good for applying bleeding and can keep up mediocre damage while you swap to use an offhand, but it will never replace a shortbow that can pierce.

Go out to Orr and see how many mobs you can tag with your axe, then do the same with a piercing bow. You’ll see the difference.

Dahkeus.8243:

Great wall of text

I don’t need to tag mobs in Orr because I don’t follow the mindless zerg. But when I do want to tag mobs, I use barrage, and traps.

As for:

Dahkeus.8243:

as soon as you’re down to a single target fight, you’re at a very distinct disadvantage with the axe.

This is when you switch to your shortbow. Or can we not switch weapons anymore?

Dahkeus.8243:

When there are more than 3 targets, your bow can hit every one that is lined up while your axe will only hit 3.

And how often do you see more than 3 enemies lined up perfectly? How often do they stay that way?

Dahkeus.8243:

This is before we even take into account that you can apply bleeding, cripple, stun and poison while continuing to AoE with your shortbow.

Poison Volley pierces even without Piercing Arrows. And let’s not forget that the axe lets you equip an offhand. If you equip a torch, you get a PBAoE burn and DoT, as well as a ranged single target burn. Burning deals roughly the same DPS as 6 stacks of bleeding.

You can go on all day about the advantages of Piercing Arrows and how much the axe sucks as a primary weapon choice, but I personally find the extra 10 points in beast mastery and 10 points in wilderness survival to be much more effective than that single trait.

Let’s break this down: Each hit of an axe does roughly half the damage of a single bow attack (before you take into account traits). This means:

- If you have two targets not lined up, the axe will do more damage.
– If you have two targets lined up, the bow will more damage. (axe hits target 1 twice and target 2 once, bow hits each target once for twice as much damage per hit).

– If you have 3 targets not lined up, the axe will do more damage.
– If 2 of the 3 targets are lined up, the bow will do more damage (3 axe hits vs 2 bow hits of 2x damage of axe).

So, I’ll admit that if you’re not flanking, the shortbow damage isn’t twice as much, but it’s still close. Yes, you may not always be able to hit as many targets as you would with an axe when you only have a few mobs, but it’s easy to always hit at least 2, which means at worst, you’re doing roughly equal damage.

And yes, if you only have 3 mobs, you won’t likely land every hit on all 3, but you can hit at least 2 frequently and 3 occaisionally. And if you have more than 3? This is pretty common and the more targets you have, the easier it is to pierce.

Look, just go out to the mists and do some damage tests, then try piercing arrows and actually make an effort to line up your shots. There may be a handful of situations where the axe may edge you ahead a bit more than a bow, but that’s why we can weapon swap. However, for the vast majority of situations, you will be better off with a piercing bow because it does so much more damage per hit, can apply more conditions, and has no limit to number of targets that can be hit.

I have nothing against axes and until they come out with a better 1h weapon, I’ll be using one for my second weapon swap to access a good offhand, but they’re not strong enough to be a primary weapon, even in most AoE situations.

To me it’s invaluable. It’s easy (for me anyway) to line enemies and hit multiple ones at once, even when there is a pile of people attacking. I consider it my 2nd AoE.

Honestly, the skill has it’s benefits and drawbacks. I’ve recently been using a SB/GS combo, where I mainly use the GS so I don’t have the skill currently, but I would tend to say that I like it. You can control the pierce by your proximity to the enemy, and targeting the enemy in the back will always pierce what is in front, so you can get some pretty solid damage on multiple enemies that way.

Dahkeus.8243:

Let’s break this down: Each hit of an axe does roughly half the damage of a single bow attack (before you take into account traits). This means:

- If you have two targets not lined up, the axe will do more damage.
– If you have two targets lined up, the bow will more damage. (axe hits target 1 twice and target 2 once, bow hits each target once for twice as much damage per hit).

– If you have 3 targets not lined up, the axe will do more damage.
– If 2 of the 3 targets are lined up, the bow will do more damage (3 axe hits vs 2 bow hits of 2x damage of axe).

So, I’ll admit that if you’re not flanking, the shortbow damage isn’t twice as much, but it’s still close. Yes, you may not always be able to hit as many targets as you would with an axe when you only have a few mobs, but it’s easy to always hit at least 2, which means at worst, you’re doing roughly equal damage.

And yes, if you only have 3 mobs, you won’t likely land every hit on all 3, but you can hit at least 2 frequently and 3 occaisionally. And if you have more than 3? This is pretty common and the more targets you have, the easier it is to pierce.

Look, just go out to the mists and do some damage tests, then try piercing arrows and actually make an effort to line up your shots. There may be a handful of situations where the axe may edge you ahead a bit more than a bow, but that’s why we can weapon swap. However, for the vast majority of situations, you will be better off with a piercing bow because it does so much more damage per hit, can apply more conditions, and has no limit to number of targets that can be hit.

I have nothing against axes and until they come out with a better 1h weapon, I’ll be using one for my second weapon swap to access a good offhand, but they’re not strong enough to be a primary weapon, even in most AoE situations.

I don’t know where you’re getting your damage numbers, but Ricochet actually deals MORE damage per hit than Crossfire.

Here’s some proof using steady weapons in the mists.

Quarktastic.1027:

Dahkeus.8243:

Let’s break this down: Each hit of an axe does roughly half the damage of a single bow attack (before you take into account traits). This means:

- If you have two targets not lined up, the axe will do more damage.
– If you have two targets lined up, the bow will more damage. (axe hits target 1 twice and target 2 once, bow hits each target once for twice as much damage per hit).

– If you have 3 targets not lined up, the axe will do more damage.
– If 2 of the 3 targets are lined up, the bow will do more damage (3 axe hits vs 2 bow hits of 2x damage of axe).

So, I’ll admit that if you’re not flanking, the shortbow damage isn’t twice as much, but it’s still close. Yes, you may not always be able to hit as many targets as you would with an axe when you only have a few mobs, but it’s easy to always hit at least 2, which means at worst, you’re doing roughly equal damage.

And yes, if you only have 3 mobs, you won’t likely land every hit on all 3, but you can hit at least 2 frequently and 3 occaisionally. And if you have more than 3? This is pretty common and the more targets you have, the easier it is to pierce.

Look, just go out to the mists and do some damage tests, then try piercing arrows and actually make an effort to line up your shots. There may be a handful of situations where the axe may edge you ahead a bit more than a bow, but that’s why we can weapon swap. However, for the vast majority of situations, you will be better off with a piercing bow because it does so much more damage per hit, can apply more conditions, and has no limit to number of targets that can be hit.

I have nothing against axes and until they come out with a better 1h weapon, I’ll be using one for my second weapon swap to access a good offhand, but they’re not strong enough to be a primary weapon, even in most AoE situations.

I don’t know where you’re getting your damage numbers, but Ricochet actually deals MORE damage per hit than Crossfire.

Here’s some proof using steady weapons in the mists.

Ok, let me correct myself, it hits for twice as much DPS, not damage.

Go to a dummy, remove your talents, then auto attack it with axe auto attack alone and time how long til it’s dead. Do this again with the short bow. There’s your answer.

And do it with a steady weapon to take out the RNG factor.

I’m seriously considering this trait, however I’m very wary that it will inadvertantly make pulling that much harder due to the risk of arrows flying through targets and hitting some other mob in the distance, possibly drawing 2 or more enemies into the fight.

Zaxares.5419:

I’m seriously considering this trait, however I’m very wary that it will inadvertantly make pulling that much harder due to the risk of arrows flying through targets and hitting some other mob in the distance, possibly drawing 2 or more enemies into the fight.

I’ve never had this happen and this is pretty rare mostly because when you target an enemy, the arrow hits them relatively low to center on their hitbox, which makes the arrow arc down soon after passing them. Because of this, when you want to pierce many targets, you want to aim for the enemy in the far back, but if you don’t want it to go through that far, just hit a closer target.

i used to use piercing arrows, until it got me thinking why should i forgo a trait when i can get it from the axe. I now use shortbow/axe-warhorn combination. The axe can do better, but as a support role its pretty good. And if there is two enemy, it will bounce back to the first aimed enemy. So effectively, the axes total damage can be very high.

lchan.2169:

i used to use piercing arrows, until it got me thinking why should i forgo a trait when i can get it from the axe. I now use shortbow/axe-warhorn combination. The axe can do better, but as a support role its pretty good. And if there is two enemy, it will bounce back to the first aimed enemy. So effectively, the axes total damage can be very high.

I had the same thought. I was already using an axe and torch as my secondary weapon set, and I felt that taking extra time to line up my targets wasn’t worth the effort. So now an axe+torch with a superior sigil of fire, and ranged traps satisfy all my AoE needs.

i am pushing for a final setup shortbow/axe-warhorn

10 – I
30 -VI, IX, X or XI
20 – VI, VII
10 – V

any comments..much appreciated.

The day I got the piercing arrow trait is the day I started to really enjoy my ranger. I was running a shortbow/ longsword/ warhorn build, so I really did not have much AoE capacity. Suddenly, after getting this trait, I was able to line up my targets and essentially kill 2 mobs in the time it used to take me to kill one. I use a lot of swiftness buffs and then the cripple and stun of the shortbow allow me to outmaneouver enemies and make sure that each arrow hits at least 2 targets. In events with huge masses of enemies, I always keep my target on the farthest back enemy so I pierce through the maximum amount of targets. The only drawback is occasionally aggro’ing a mob that I hadn’t intended to, but this happens rarely and hasn’t become an issue yet. I highly recommend this trait to builds that rely on a bow for damage.

lchan.2169:

i am pushing for a final setup shortbow/axe-warhorn

10 – I
30 -VI, IX, X or XI
20 – VI, VII
10 – V

any comments..much appreciated.

I’d recommend this instead:
http://gw2skills.net/editor/?fMAQNAV3fjEVV2RWKWsWCgli9CspgTN5MOkxvgEmVZjB;TsAg0CnomxMjYG7MuZkzsIYExWAA
Similar build, but instead is:
10 – I, VIII
25 – I, X
20, VI, IV
5

- 10% damage with full endurance.
– Piercing for reasons mentioned previously.
– Pet critical +30% damage but pet speed +30% is good too.*
– Quick draw mostly for the utility of the short bow since the main damage comes from the auto-attack. There are other viable choices for this slot.
– Wilderness Knowledge is a no-brainer for any build with QZ.
– Vigor on heal because it both gives you more protection boon time and keeps you at full endurance more often for the 10% damage increase.