Guild Wars 2

this just hit me…why are the devs so afraid of making this GM interesting?

increase its damage bonus to 50% so that it’s doing significantly more dps than bleeds, and healing debuff to -50%. it’s in Wilderness, and we have to give up condi cleanse for it. make it good. also we have to equip weak weapons to get enough poison stacks, decreasing our overall effectiveness, and dps from other condis like bleeds and burning (for example: s/d, SB and the serpent trap instead of torch, axe, flame trap).

buff this, make the poison ranger and SB interesting and relevant (yes, stealth SB whine).

What if it worked with Lead the Wind? Allow it to poison all the targets the arrow passes through. Apply poison to five targets instead of one?

I think they are likely going to make poison a focus for an elite specialization. Perhaps an assassin thief, a toxologist engi/ necro or a botanist ranger ;-)

Justine.6351:

I think they are likely going to make poison a focus for an elite specialization. Perhaps an assassin thief, a toxologist engi/ necro or a botanist ranger ;-)

Which one, though?
Only the Ranger is unknown (Engie coming this week).

I think he meant a future elite spec in the next expansion, by which time there will be no ranger players left and anet won’t have to waste dev hours on it.

I agree that Poison Master should make it so effective healing on targets you poison -50% instead of the normal -33%. Would also be nice if the poison damage increase applied to the pets, too. =/

I’d like to see condi removal on poison application.

I’d opt for transferring a condition when applying poison instead. Keep the trait offensive.

A completely random idea that went through my mind.

“Poison Master blah blah same effects…
… And your poison can no longer be cleansed.”

Hmm? Hmm? Anyone?

Tragic Positive.9356:

A completely random idea that went through my mind.

“Poison Master blah blah same effects…
… And your poison can no longer be cleansed.”

Hmm? Hmm? Anyone?

Have you been taking your medication?

Tragic Positive.9356:

A completely random idea that went through my mind.

“Poison Master blah blah same effects…
… And your poison can no longer be cleansed.”

Hmm? Hmm? Anyone?

How would that work, mechanically?

Heimskarl Ashfiend.9582:

Tragic Positive.9356:

A completely random idea that went through my mind.

“Poison Master blah blah same effects…
… And your poison can no longer be cleansed.”

Hmm? Hmm? Anyone?

How would that work, mechanically?

All outgoing poison instead applies new effect.

I wouldn’t go down this road simply because anet has been changing effects into boons. Is taunt a condition?

I thought it would be interesting to change a % of all outgoing dmg/conditions into a dot but with a +% increase in dmg. Trading a spike for heavier dot.

Heimskarl Ashfiend.9582:

How would that work, mechanically?

Would probably have a poison icon that differs from the normal one to indicate when a person is poisoned by a PM Ranger that they are kittened.

Wondrouswall.7169:

Heimskarl Ashfiend.9582:

How would that work, mechanically?

Would probably have a poison icon that differs from the normal one to indicate when a person is poisoned by a PM Ranger that they are kittened.

Just like Mesmer’s swiftness from focus,
Or just like Mesmer’s Mass Invisibility that doesn’t add to stealth but instead Adds another icon with the very same effect.
EDIT: Ideally if ranger applying the poison would apply a condition that prevented any poison on the target from being cleansed.

Agree it’s a pretty weak trait, especially nestled among 2 virtually mandatory condi removal traits. I think +50% on poison plus some kind of limited condi transfer from ranger to target might bring it up to par.

Or instead of making poison non-removable they could code your poisons to not be removed before all other conditions are. Sort of like thief stealing boons is coded for priority. It wouldn’t be impossible to remove, just very stubborn to remove.

Or they could give your poison “stability” requiring multiple attempts of condition removal to finnaly remove it.

I guess there are interesting options, but I would really like to see a poison master elite spec ;-)

Wondrouswall.7169:

Heimskarl Ashfiend.9582:

How would that work, mechanically?

Would probably have a poison icon that differs from the normal one to indicate when a person is poisoned by a PM Ranger that they are kittened.

If it was totally non-cleansable, it would be a bit OP. Perhaps still use the icon on initial poison application but instead of the poison being non-cleansable, make it re-apply actual poison on hitting someone with the icon if not already poisoned. So you can maintain if you continually attack, but they can also cleanse it.

Justine.6351:

Or instead of making poison non-removable they could code your poisons to not be removed before all other conditions are. Sort of like thief stealing boons is coded for priority. It wouldn’t be impossible to remove, just very stubborn to remove.

Or they could give your poison “stability” requiring multiple attempts of condition removal to finnaly remove it.

I guess there are interesting options, but I would really like to see a poison master elite spec ;-)

Could do this by adding another boon on top of poison application. Say, torment. That would be pretty cool.

Heimskarl Ashfiend.9582:

If it was totally non-cleansable, it would be a bit OP. Perhaps still use the icon on initial poison application but instead of the poison being non-cleansable, make it re-apply actual poison on hitting someone with the icon if not already poisoned. So you can maintain if you continually attack, but they can also cleanse it.

You mean sacrificing all and any real and reliable condition cleanse we have is too OP as a trade for 1 condition that cannot be cleansed???
To make us finally a defined role for PvP = anti-healers?

I mean … You really believe so ?

Heimskarl Ashfiend.9582:

Wondrouswall.7169:

Heimskarl Ashfiend.9582:

How would that work, mechanically?

Would probably have a poison icon that differs from the normal one to indicate when a person is poisoned by a PM Ranger that they are kittened.

If it was totally non-cleansable, it would be a bit OP. Perhaps still use the icon on initial poison application but instead of the poison being non-cleansable, make it re-apply actual poison on hitting someone with the icon if not already poisoned. So you can maintain if you continually attack, but they can also cleanse it.

http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Refined_Toxins

already can keep good uptime if you or pet are above 90% hp. Even if you cant, pet swap = poison again if they get a hit before falling below 90%. Or just use a devourer or spider.

Keeping a stack of poison on people isn’t terribly difficult, its building stacks to deal dmg that is.

After looking on wiki, ranger really is lacking in poison-stack-producing skills. Is it realistic to bump +10 poison stacks and maintain them for +5sec every 10sec? Even that is weak compared to bleed or lolburning.

Poison just isn’t meant for stacking dmg. They would need some serious skill cleanup focusing poison. Or they can just add an elite spec focusing poison.

Tragic Positive.9356:

Heimskarl Ashfiend.9582:

If it was totally non-cleansable, it would be a bit OP. Perhaps still use the icon on initial poison application but instead of the poison being non-cleansable, make it re-apply actual poison on hitting someone with the icon if not already poisoned. So you can maintain if you continually attack, but they can also cleanse it.

You mean sacrificing all and any real and reliable condition cleanse we have is too OP as a trade for 1 condition that cannot be cleansed???
To make us finally a defined role for PvP = anti-healers?

I mean … You really believe so ?

I have already advocated many times that Ranger should be able to maintain Poison on anyone permanently. When I say permanently, I mean continual reapplication. But not with a special condition that cannot be cleansed. If it were Poison application on hit, fine, that is good because the Ranger has to continue attacking to maintain it. If it is fire and forget so you can Super Poison the bunker and rotate off, letting whoever else is there kill it, its too much. imo.

Heimskarl Ashfiend.9582:

Tragic Positive.9356:

Heimskarl Ashfiend.9582:

If it was totally non-cleansable, it would be a bit OP. Perhaps still use the icon on initial poison application but instead of the poison being non-cleansable, make it re-apply actual poison on hitting someone with the icon if not already poisoned. So you can maintain if you continually attack, but they can also cleanse it.

You mean sacrificing all and any real and reliable condition cleanse we have is too OP as a trade for 1 condition that cannot be cleansed???
To make us finally a defined role for PvP = anti-healers?

I mean … You really believe so ?

I have already advocated many times that Ranger should be able to maintain Poison on anyone permanently. But not with a special condition that cannot be cleansed. If it were Poison application on hit, fine, that is good because the Ranger has to continue attacking to maintain it. If it is fire and forget so you can Super Poison the bunker and rotate off, letting whoever else is there kill it, its too much. imo.

You know our longest-lasting poison is 8 seconds, right?
Plus poison is not really a hard-ticking condition.

We are still talking about sacrificing out only condition cleanse – so you can almost say that we trade it for allowing enemies to stack all conditions on us without any real way to cleanse them.

If that still sounds too OP – let it have 2 stacks that prevent it from being cleansed (so poison can be cleansed only after 2 stacks of randomly named condition). Would have a counter-play, would make it a risk/reward option… And would still promote rangers as a counter against healing eles, guardians and occasional warriors.

Tragic Positive.9356:

Heimskarl Ashfiend.9582:

Tragic Positive.9356:

Heimskarl Ashfiend.9582:

If it was totally non-cleansable, it would be a bit OP. Perhaps still use the icon on initial poison application but instead of the poison being non-cleansable, make it re-apply actual poison on hitting someone with the icon if not already poisoned. So you can maintain if you continually attack, but they can also cleanse it.

You mean sacrificing all and any real and reliable condition cleanse we have is too OP as a trade for 1 condition that cannot be cleansed???
To make us finally a defined role for PvP = anti-healers?

I mean … You really believe so ?

I have already advocated many times that Ranger should be able to maintain Poison on anyone permanently. But not with a special condition that cannot be cleansed. If it were Poison application on hit, fine, that is good because the Ranger has to continue attacking to maintain it. If it is fire and forget so you can Super Poison the bunker and rotate off, letting whoever else is there kill it, its too much. imo.

You know our longest-lasting poison is 8 seconds, right?
Plus poison is not really a hard-ticking condition.

We are still talking about sacrificing out only condition cleanse – so you can almost say that we trade it for allowing enemies to stack all conditions on us without any real way to cleanse them.

If that still sounds too OP – let it have 2 stacks that prevent it from being cleansed (so poison can be cleansed only after 2 stacks of randomly named condition). Would have a counter-play, would make it a risk/reward option… And would still promote rangers as a counter against healing eles, guardians and occasional warriors.

Are you still talking about a non-cleansable, special poison icon? What duration would you think to have for that?

The best thing about poison is the -33%.

If it were me, I would make it apply 1s of Poison every attack, then run something like this http://gw2skills.net/editor/?vNAQJATRnMqAtsg1CC+rActghOhyD8Aow/WYAO8OY37TugVHA-TpBFABxs/g4lBQ4QAQwFAYhjAAAPAAA

Edit: Actually, I would make Refined Toxins apply 1s Poison on hit and then add something else to PM, like +20% Poison duration.

here let me help.

Poison master will never see use because its competing with 2 good condi cleansing traits. It will have to be made so absurdly op to see use that it isn’t going to happen.

Anything you could want out of poison (-33% healing, upkeep) can be done without this trait. The exception, serious condition dmg. Nobody with a brain will sacrifice at minimum a solid source of condi removal and at top end, op survival trait.

A trait granting a single unremovable poison stack is going to see about as much play as lolcondilongbow.

Well, it already was 50 %. They nerfed it before patch went live because it was deemed “too powerful”. Which is hilarious considering how burn ticks melt people these days.

The sad thing is I used to run this all the time because Empathic Bond and Survival of the Fittest was more condi removal than I what I needed. Haven’t touched it after the specialization patch outside PvE. They didn’t just nerf its functionality, they made it compete with our most viable cleanse option.

Even if druid offers some cleanse, I don’t see myself not running survival skills in pvp. They’re just way better than most other utility skills.

@Heim
I dunno…
Let’s say 6 seconds? with 10 sec internal cooldown?
The numbers do not really matter. The idea of anti-cleansing anti-healer mechanic is the point.

It’s just another idea how to make the trait a viable choice, after all. It needs a huge kick forward if it wants to compete with our only cleanse options.

Justine.6351:

here let me help.

Poison master will never see use because its competing with 2 good condi cleansing traits. It will have to be made so absurdly op to see use that it isn’t going to happen.

Anything you could want out of poison (-33% healing, upkeep) can be done without this trait. The exception, serious condition dmg. Nobody with a brain will sacrifice at minimum a solid source of condi removal and at top end, op survival trait.

A trait granting a single unremovable poison stack is going to see about as much play as lolcondilongbow.

I’m sure something has happened in your personal life Justine, I’m not sure what it is but your comments lately have become snide and kitteny. They didn’t used to be. Just saying.

A non-removable stack of Poison would likely see Ranger into the Meta as a bunker/sustain buster, because Bunker has excellent condi removal, this would totally counter them. If you look at the build I posted, it has enough condi cleanse to go without WK and that is without a BB or purity sigils.

Tragic Positive.9356:

@Heim
I dunno…
Let’s say 6 seconds? with 10 sec internal cooldown?
The numbers do not really matter. The idea of anti-cleansing anti-healer mechanic is the point.

It’s just another idea how to make the trait a viable choice, after all. It needs a huge kick forward if it wants to compete with our only cleanse options.

Oh, you mean to have an ICD too? Only 60% uptime would not be super OP if the duration on it could not be extended through condi duration. Although, I still have a sweet spot for Apply Poison type effects because it is more pressure, to continually attack and apply poison at the same time.

Poison Master is in a good place. The problem is that it shares traits with our only potent condi removal.

To fix Poison Master, fix Invigorating Bond. Give IB 2 condi removal. By doing so, allows PM to be chosen and IB would actually be useful. The trade off is that you lose Protective Ward.

the problem with poison in general is that its either too strong for pvp or too weak for pve…

either dmg or heal, not both. Thief has 20% one (had 50% but nerfed)

They could add this:

Every few seconds, a nearby poisoned foe takes a condition from you.