Guild Wars 2

50 replies bug.

Carpboy.7145:

ItIsFinished.9462:

Carpboy.7145:

More dmg is a bad thing if you have to sacrifice a lot of survivability….

Sacrificing a lot of survivability by not taking EB? Lol…

Or bark skin, yes. You’re essentially trading either of those for 125 damage per second. Since you can already easily get 100% poison uptime

For case of argument, lets say I’m running sword/dagger + axe torch. Dual birds. How can I achieve 90%+ poison uptime with this combination?

Answer: You can’t.

Unless you are running Poison Master.

Sword/Dagger is 21 seconds of Poison Alone

At no point should you ever run Poison Master over EB….EB itself is one of our best Condition Removal abilities, and it isn’t good enough against most Condition Builds.. dropping it for the equiv of 1 bleed stack and something you should be applying most of the time anyway with ease is just silly.

Terravos.4059:

Sword/Dagger is 21 seconds of Poison Alone

At no point should you ever run Poison Master over EB….EB itself is one of our best Condition Removal abilities, and it isn’t good enough against most Condition Builds.. dropping it for the equiv of 1 bleed stack and something you should be applying most of the time anyway with ease is just silly.

So you drop 21 seconds of Poison on them then they use a condi cleanse. That 21 seconds becomes…nothing.

EB is a like a 2 sided blade. It can help remove conditions(randomy) at the expense of killing your pet. And, as you know first hand, when your pet is dead, so are you.

ItIsFinished.9462:

Terravos.4059:

Sword/Dagger is 21 seconds of Poison Alone

At no point should you ever run Poison Master over EB….EB itself is one of our best Condition Removal abilities, and it isn’t good enough against most Condition Builds.. dropping it for the equiv of 1 bleed stack and something you should be applying most of the time anyway with ease is just silly.

So you drop 21 seconds of Poison on them then they use a condi cleanse. That 21 seconds becomes…nothing.

That’d be a problem.. if Sword/Dagger wasn’t on insanely low cooldowns in the first place

Also I swap my pet every 16 seconds….Chances of killing my pet in those 16 seconds with conditions very slim

Carpboy.7145:

ItIsFinished.9462:

Carpboy.7145:

More dmg is a bad thing if you have to sacrifice a lot of survivability….

Sacrificing a lot of survivability by not taking EB? Lol…

Or bark skin, yes. You’re essentially trading either of those for 125 damage per second. Since you can already easily get 100% poison uptime

Just curious…. But how do you plan on having 100% poison uptime? You’re using Sword/dagger, sweet, so are you only using that ONE weapon set? No? Then your poison will be dropping off. Are you playing against enemies with condi removal? That poison will be dropping off.

And it’s hardly a “huge survivability trade” as you keep seeming to think, itsfinished is CLEARLY using a pet oriented build (how else would birds hit for 4k?) this means him taking EB is not only a DPS decrease due to chill, cripple and weakness being transferred to the pet, but its ALSO clearing his pets might stacks when he’s forced to swap due to the pet being dissolved by conditions.

Also, poison mastery increases the damage by a pretty significant margin, it makes the poison you apply from serpent strike + stalkers strike (assuming no other condi duration is boosting it) by 2k damage, that’s nothing to scoff at, especially since poison master makes it no matter how much they beg, or cleanse, or plead they will NEVER be free from your poison.

And if you don’t see how strong that is I have no more to say to you, because you’ll never understand a good trait when you see it.

Terravos.4059:

ItIsFinished.9462:

Terravos.4059:

Sword/Dagger is 21 seconds of Poison Alone

At no point should you ever run Poison Master over EB….EB itself is one of our best Condition Removal abilities, and it isn’t good enough against most Condition Builds.. dropping it for the equiv of 1 bleed stack and something you should be applying most of the time anyway with ease is just silly.

So you drop 21 seconds of Poison on them then they use a condi cleanse. That 21 seconds becomes…nothing.

That’d be a problem.. if Sword/Dagger wasn’t on insanely low cooldowns in the first place

Also I swap my pet every 16 seconds….Chances of killing my pet in those 16 seconds with conditions very slim

The whole point is you would be able to take other weapon sets besides the traditional sets while still being able to apply poison regularly. Which has opened up a lot of build choices for me.

Durzlla.6295:

Carpboy.7145:

ItIsFinished.9462:

Carpboy.7145:

More dmg is a bad thing if you have to sacrifice a lot of survivability….

Sacrificing a lot of survivability by not taking EB? Lol…

Or bark skin, yes. You’re essentially trading either of those for 125 damage per second. Since you can already easily get 100% poison uptime

Just curious…. But how do you plan on having 100% poison uptime? You’re using Sword/dagger, sweet, so are you only using that ONE weapon set? No? Then your poison will be dropping off. Are you playing against enemies with condi removal? That poison will be dropping off.

And it’s hardly a “huge survivability trade” as you keep seeming to think, itsfinished is CLEARLY using a pet oriented build (how else would birds hit for 4k?) this means him taking EB is not only a DPS decrease due to chill, cripple and weakness being transferred to the pet, but its ALSO clearing his pets might stacks when he’s forced to swap due to the pet being dissolved by conditions.

Also, poison mastery increases the damage by a pretty significant margin, it makes the poison you apply from serpent strike + stalkers strike (assuming no other condi duration is boosting it) by 2k damage, that’s nothing to scoff at, especially since poison master makes it no matter how much they beg, or cleanse, or plead they will NEVER be free from your poison.

And if you don’t see how strong that is I have no more to say to you, because you’ll never understand a good trait when you see it.

Thanks Durzlla, I’m at work so its hard to type out full scenarios.

@everyoneelse: I don’t want people to think this is the new “go to” trait. As it seems to benefit certain build types. It’s simply the perfect trait for my current setup I run.

ItIsFinished.9462:

Terravos.4059:

ItIsFinished.9462:

Terravos.4059:

Sword/Dagger is 21 seconds of Poison Alone

At no point should you ever run Poison Master over EB….EB itself is one of our best Condition Removal abilities, and it isn’t good enough against most Condition Builds.. dropping it for the equiv of 1 bleed stack and something you should be applying most of the time anyway with ease is just silly.

So you drop 21 seconds of Poison on them then they use a condi cleanse. That 21 seconds becomes…nothing.

That’d be a problem.. if Sword/Dagger wasn’t on insanely low cooldowns in the first place

Also I swap my pet every 16 seconds….Chances of killing my pet in those 16 seconds with conditions very slim

The whole point is you would be able to take other weapon sets besides the traditional sets while still being able to apply poison regularly. Which has opened up a lot of build choices for me.

oh, So you’re going to take Greatsword/Longbow then and sport Poison master.. since those are the only two weapons that don’t have it..

you’d be better off running The Poison Sigils and keeping EB.

Durzlla.6295:

Carpboy.7145:

ItIsFinished.9462:

Carpboy.7145:

More dmg is a bad thing if you have to sacrifice a lot of survivability….

Sacrificing a lot of survivability by not taking EB? Lol…

Or bark skin, yes. You’re essentially trading either of those for 125 damage per second. Since you can already easily get 100% poison uptime

Just curious…. But how do you plan on having 100% poison uptime? You’re using Sword/dagger, sweet, so are you only using that ONE weapon set? No? Then your poison will be dropping off. Are you playing against enemies with condi removal? That poison will be dropping off.

And it’s hardly a “huge survivability trade” as you keep seeming to think, itsfinished is CLEARLY using a pet oriented build (how else would birds hit for 4k?) *this means him taking EB is not only a DPS decrease due to chill, cripple and weakness being transferred to the pet, but its ALSO clearing his pets might stacks when he’s forced to swap due to the pet being dissolved by conditions. *

Also, poison mastery increases the damage by a pretty significant margin, it makes the poison you apply from serpent strike + stalkers strike (assuming no other condi duration is boosting it) by 2k damage, that’s nothing to scoff at, especially since poison master makes it no matter how much they beg, or cleanse, or plead they will NEVER be free from your poison.

And if you don’t see how strong that is I have no more to say to you, because you’ll never understand a good trait when you see it.

hey you know what is also a DPS decrease? Being Dead because you lack condition removal

Terravos.4059:

ItIsFinished.9462:

Terravos.4059:

ItIsFinished.9462:

Terravos.4059:

Sword/Dagger is 21 seconds of Poison Alone

At no point should you ever run Poison Master over EB….EB itself is one of our best Condition Removal abilities, and it isn’t good enough against most Condition Builds.. dropping it for the equiv of 1 bleed stack and something you should be applying most of the time anyway with ease is just silly.

So you drop 21 seconds of Poison on them then they use a condi cleanse. That 21 seconds becomes…nothing.

That’d be a problem.. if Sword/Dagger wasn’t on insanely low cooldowns in the first place

Also I swap my pet every 16 seconds….Chances of killing my pet in those 16 seconds with conditions very slim

The whole point is you would be able to take other weapon sets besides the traditional sets while still being able to apply poison regularly. Which has opened up a lot of build choices for me.

oh, So you’re going to take Greatsword/Longbow then and sport Poison master.. since those are the only two weapons that don’t have it..

Axe MH and OH, Torch, Warhorn…

Terravos.4059:

Durzlla.6295:

Carpboy.7145:

ItIsFinished.9462:

Carpboy.7145:

More dmg is a bad thing if you have to sacrifice a lot of survivability….

Sacrificing a lot of survivability by not taking EB? Lol…

Or bark skin, yes. You’re essentially trading either of those for 125 damage per second. Since you can already easily get 100% poison uptime

Just curious…. But how do you plan on having 100% poison uptime? You’re using Sword/dagger, sweet, so are you only using that ONE weapon set? No? Then your poison will be dropping off. Are you playing against enemies with condi removal? That poison will be dropping off.

And it’s hardly a “huge survivability trade” as you keep seeming to think, itsfinished is CLEARLY using a pet oriented build (how else would birds hit for 4k?) *this means him taking EB is not only a DPS decrease due to chill, cripple and weakness being transferred to the pet, but its ALSO clearing his pets might stacks when he’s forced to swap due to the pet being dissolved by conditions. *

Also, poison mastery increases the damage by a pretty significant margin, it makes the poison you apply from serpent strike + stalkers strike (assuming no other condi duration is boosting it) by 2k damage, that’s nothing to scoff at, especially since poison master makes it no matter how much they beg, or cleanse, or plead they will NEVER be free from your poison.

And if you don’t see how strong that is I have no more to say to you, because you’ll never understand a good trait when you see it.

hey you know what is also a DPS decrease? Being Dead because you lack condition removal

Condi’s roll off the pro rangers

Terravos.4059:

Durzlla.6295:

Carpboy.7145:

ItIsFinished.9462:

Carpboy.7145:

More dmg is a bad thing if you have to sacrifice a lot of survivability….

Sacrificing a lot of survivability by not taking EB? Lol…

Or bark skin, yes. You’re essentially trading either of those for 125 damage per second. Since you can already easily get 100% poison uptime

Just curious…. But how do you plan on having 100% poison uptime? You’re using Sword/dagger, sweet, so are you only using that ONE weapon set? No? Then your poison will be dropping off. Are you playing against enemies with condi removal? That poison will be dropping off.

And it’s hardly a “huge survivability trade” as you keep seeming to think, itsfinished is CLEARLY using a pet oriented build (how else would birds hit for 4k?) *this means him taking EB is not only a DPS decrease due to chill, cripple and weakness being transferred to the pet, but its ALSO clearing his pets might stacks when he’s forced to swap due to the pet being dissolved by conditions. *

Also, poison mastery increases the damage by a pretty significant margin, it makes the poison you apply from serpent strike + stalkers strike (assuming no other condi duration is boosting it) by 2k damage, that’s nothing to scoff at, especially since poison master makes it no matter how much they beg, or cleanse, or plead they will NEVER be free from your poison.

And if you don’t see how strong that is I have no more to say to you, because you’ll never understand a good trait when you see it.

hey you know what is also a DPS decrease? Being Dead because you lack condition removal

I hear there’s this thing called SoR, and SoTF, that also remove conditions, and rumor has it our best heal ALSO, removes conditions and that we even have a pet that can not only remove conditions from us, but ALSO up to 4 allies WITHOUT killing themselves!! Wanna know the best part? There’s also this strange myth going around that GASP allows you to dodge incoming conditions just like direct damage!! The best part is EVERYONE can do that and it negates the entire condition!!! There’s also these things called runes and sigils that supposedly have this magical ability to remove conditions, but those can’t possibly be used by rangers now can they?

But you know, better run EB instead cause everyone knows we have no other good condi removals…

At no point ever, is SoR/SoTF/Healing Spring/EB/Sigils remotely enough Condition Removal in this game.

The number one rule of Condition Removal in this game is simply, you can’t have enough condition removal.

Deciding that you’re going to drop our best form of condition removal for the equiv of 1 extra bleed stack and a 10 second poison every 20 seconds is just silly..just flat out silly

ItIsFinished.9462:

Terravos.4059:

ItIsFinished.9462:

Terravos.4059:

ItIsFinished.9462:

Terravos.4059:

Sword/Dagger is 21 seconds of Poison Alone

At no point should you ever run Poison Master over EB….EB itself is one of our best Condition Removal abilities, and it isn’t good enough against most Condition Builds.. dropping it for the equiv of 1 bleed stack and something you should be applying most of the time anyway with ease is just silly.

So you drop 21 seconds of Poison on them then they use a condi cleanse. That 21 seconds becomes…nothing.

That’d be a problem.. if Sword/Dagger wasn’t on insanely low cooldowns in the first place

Also I swap my pet every 16 seconds….Chances of killing my pet in those 16 seconds with conditions very slim

The whole point is you would be able to take other weapon sets besides the traditional sets while still being able to apply poison regularly. Which has opened up a lot of build choices for me.

oh, So you’re going to take Greatsword/Longbow then and sport Poison master.. since those are the only two weapons that don’t have it..

Axe MH and OH, Torch, Warhorn…

Chances are if you’re running Axe MH, You’re going to be running Sword Mainhand as your other weapon, and most likely you’ll be taking dagger on one of those weapons.

Unless you’re some weird Trapper build, in which case..you have Poison Trap..and if you remove EB, you have no Condition Removal of note at all.

Terravos.4059:

At no point ever, is SoR/SoTF/Healing Spring/EB/Sigils remotely enough Condition Removal in this game.

The number one rule of Condition Removal in this game is simply, you can’t have enough condition removal.

Deciding that you’re going to drop our best form of condition removal for the equiv of 1 extra bleed stack and a 10 second poison every 20 seconds is just silly..just flat out silly

It’s hardly our best form of condi removal when it completely kittens over a lot more builds than it helps, how about you stop living in denial and realize there’s more than one way to skin a cat? Just because YOU don’t avoid conditions and YOU like gutting your pet to stay up doesn’t mean everyone does.

If you can’t beat a condi build while using an active condi removal instead of one that does the work for you that’s YOUR problem, not ours, not Anets. And more importantly if YOU can’t see the strength of poison master that doesn’t mean it’s bad.

As I said earlier, if you can’t see why the trait is good you’ll never understand a good trait when you see it. Me and itsfinished have provided countless examples of why its a good trait and EB isn’t needed and all you can come up with is, “but conditions!!”

I’m done stating the same points over and over for someone who clearly isn’t grasping them, if you come up with a real argument as to why EB is magically needed more than other condi removals fine, otherwise I’m done replying to you, all you’re doing is making yourself look ignorant which is quite sad.

Durzlla.6295:

Terravos.4059:

At no point ever, is SoR/SoTF/Healing Spring/EB/Sigils remotely enough Condition Removal in this game.

The number one rule of Condition Removal in this game is simply, you can’t have enough condition removal.

Deciding that you’re going to drop our best form of condition removal for the equiv of 1 extra bleed stack and a 10 second poison every 20 seconds is just silly..just flat out silly

It’s hardly our best form of condi removal when it completely kittens over a lot more builds than it helps, how about you stop living in denial and realize there’s more than one way to skin a cat? Just because YOU don’t avoid conditions and YOU like gutting your pet to stay up doesn’t mean everyone does.

If you can’t beat a condi build while using an active condi removal instead of one that does the work for you that’s YOUR problem, not ours, not Anets. And more importantly if YOU can’t see the strength of poison master that doesn’t mean it’s bad.

As I said earlier, if you can’t see why the trait is good you’ll never understand a good trait when you see it. Me and itsfinished have provided countless examples of why its a good trait and EB isn’t needed and all you can come up with is, “but conditions!!”

I’m done stating the same points over and over for someone who clearly isn’t grasping them, if you come up with a real argument as to why EB is magically needed more than other condi removals fine, otherwise I’m done replying to you, all you’re doing is making yourself look ignorant which is quite sad.

You’re clearly not understanding

I’m not saying EB is magically needed more then other conditional removals..I’m stating that you need ALL the bloody condition removals you can get. If you want to continue pvping the hard way, I’m not going to stop ya… Some people prefer Bearbow rangers as well..Doesn’t make it actually any good

Ranger #1 says, “Ouch, I’ve just been inflicted with Immobilize, Chill, Weakness, Fear, 15 Stacks of Bleeding, 5 stacks of Torment and 4 stacks of Confusion. My Empathic Bond will save me!”

Ranger #2 sits and watches as only 3 conditions are removed after 9 seconds pass.

Ranger #1 says, “Help me Ranger #2!”

Ranger #2 Pop’s SoR, removes the remaining four conditions off of Ranger #1 + the 3 additional conditions that were added during that long 9 second RNG Empathic Bond to kick in.

Later after that match, Ranger #1 secretly tries out a different spec, dropping EB and picking SoR -he never looks back.

The End.

You shouldn’t be using poison for it’s damage imo, its mainly to hamper your targets healing capabilities.

Poison Master is a bad trait only because EB and BS both outclass this trait by a country mile.

ItIsFinished.9462:

Ranger #1 says, “Ouch, I’ve just been inflicted with Immobilize, Chill, Weakness, Fear, 15 Stacks of Bleeding, 5 stacks of Torment and 4 stacks of Confusion. My Empathic Bond will save me!”

Ranger #2 sits and watches as only 3 conditions are removed after 9 seconds pass.

Ranger #1 says, “Help me Ranger #2!”

Ranger #2 Pop’s SoR, removes the remaining four conditions off of Ranger #1 + the 3 additional conditions that were added during that long 9 second RNG Empathic Bond to kick in.

Later after that match, Ranger #1 secretly tries out a different spec, dropping EB and picking SoR -he never looks back.

The End.

So what part of you need all the condition removal you can get doesn’t click with you?

Ranger 1 would most likely be running EB with SoR if he had half a brain…Ranger 2 sounds like a genius right up until he uses in SoR, and is instantly hit with a boatload of conditions again, and realizes that using SoR to remove Condition Burst is useful, but relying solely on SoR for your condition removal is downright moronic.

Terravos.4059:

ItIsFinished.9462:

Ranger #1 says, “Ouch, I’ve just been inflicted with Immobilize, Chill, Weakness, Fear, 15 Stacks of Bleeding, 5 stacks of Torment and 4 stacks of Confusion. My Empathic Bond will save me!”

Ranger #2 sits and watches as only 3 conditions are removed after 9 seconds pass.

Ranger #1 says, “Help me Ranger #2!”

Ranger #2 Pop’s SoR, removes the remaining four conditions off of Ranger #1 + the 3 additional conditions that were added during that long 9 second RNG Empathic Bond to kick in.

Later after that match, Ranger #1 secretly tries out a different spec, dropping EB and picking SoR -he never looks back.

The End.

So what part of you need all the condition removal you can get doesn’t click with you?

This would be a relevant question if at any point during this thread I mentioned that a Ranger could have too much condition removal.

I don’t have a problem with conditions. You might, but I don’t. And, if I did have an issue with mad conditions being thrown at me, EB wouldn’t do anything that SoR couldn’t do. And if SoR wasn’t enough, then I would of died anyways.

Terravos.4059:

Ranger 1 would most likely be running EB with SoR if he had half a brain…Ranger 2 sounds like a genius right up until he uses in SoR, and is instantly hit with a boatload of conditions again, and realizes that using SoR to remove Condition Burst is useful, but relying solely on SoR for your condition removal is downright moronic.

Nah, Ranger #1 would be running Spirit, because that’s what the forums tell them to do.

I was one of the first Rangers to theorycraft a Celestial build for 1vs1 and Zerg play. At first people were critical of it. Then, a couple months later you started seeing builds pop up….many builds. This will be one of those traits people will use, and like it. They’ll find ways to implement and utilize the high poison uptime, while not being pigeon holed into one weapon set. Even you, Xsorus, will one day post a build with this trait implemented, and I will bump this thread reminding you of your criticism.

I’ve been using Poison Master on a Survival of the Fittest Axe/Dagger Sword/Torch duelist build, as well as a Soldier’s (PvP) Settler’s Shout build, and I can honestly say I’m impressed with the condition output.

With a geomany/hydromancy combo on the weaponsets, I can literally soft CC lockdown an opponent, and on top of that, I can maintain 1k+ total condition DPS without burning (Dagger 5 + Axe 3 + Dagger 4 + Swap +Throw Torch can push it to 11 bleed stacks, 8 seconds of chill, 10 + seconds of poison, and burning for a grand total of around or over 2k condition DPS depending on condition investment).

The best part is that every single one of these is almost completely maintainable. It’s a definite boost to condition builds. I’d say the builds are much more suited to dueling though (excluding the shout build which is more all around due to support abilities).

1. Kinda discourages using poisonous pets because their own poison tics for much lower damage and can be stacked up for quite a long time. If the spider spits or webs first thing, you get good damage, but if it poison clouds first, you might have a long time to wait before you see the bigger numbers.
2. Submitted a bug report, when a spider applies its own poison in addition to the poison master proc, and then you swap to another pet, the poison tics from the first pet’s own poison will sometimes not show on the screen but the enemy still appears to be taking the damage.
3. Doesn’t seem to work with malicious training.

Durzlla.6295:

I hear there’s this thing called SoR, and SoTF, that also remove conditions, and rumor has it our best heal ALSO, removes conditions and that we even have a pet that can not only remove conditions from us, but ALSO up to 4 allies WITHOUT killing themselves!! Wanna know the best part? There’s also this strange myth going around that GASP allows you to dodge incoming conditions just like direct damage!! The best part is EVERYONE can do that and it negates the entire condition!!! There’s also these things called runes and sigils that supposedly have this magical ability to remove conditions, but those can’t possibly be used by rangers now can they?

But you know, better run EB instead cause everyone knows we have no other good condi removals…

One thing about SOR—and this is as much a question as comment—I hardly find the active condition removal reliable. The range for the pet actually pulling the conditions off of you seems so small that it often doesn’t work. I know, I know, I try summon a pet right before I use SOR, but the thing is , when you need to use it’s active, you NEED TO USE IT’S ACTIVE NOW! So your pet summons may not be off CD and if you are at range, and your pet is melee (or visa versa), you’re screwed.

Anyone else notice this problem?

Bredin.5368:

Durzlla.6295:

I hear there’s this thing called SoR, and SoTF, that also remove conditions, and rumor has it our best heal ALSO, removes conditions and that we even have a pet that can not only remove conditions from us, but ALSO up to 4 allies WITHOUT killing themselves!! Wanna know the best part? There’s also this strange myth going around that GASP allows you to dodge incoming conditions just like direct damage!! The best part is EVERYONE can do that and it negates the entire condition!!! There’s also these things called runes and sigils that supposedly have this magical ability to remove conditions, but those can’t possibly be used by rangers now can they?

But you know, better run EB instead cause everyone knows we have no other good condi removals…

One thing about SOR—and this is as much a question as comment—I hardly find the active condition removal reliable. The range for the pet actually pulling the conditions off of you seems so small that it often doesn’t work. I know, I know, I try summon a pet right before I use SOR, but the thing is , when you need to use it’s active, you NEED TO USE IT’S ACTIVE NOW! So your pet summons may not be off CD and if you are at range, and your pet is melee (or visa versa), you’re screwed.

Anyone else notice this problem?

The sig is a 600 range radius, most of the time when I get hit by condis and need the active my pet is within 600 easily, otherwise I tend to be far enough to not be at risk of a condi burst.

It is a problem I have had when using SoR. Especially since you often will want to pet swap after using the signet, so swapping to make you pet be next to you before using the signet is not really an ideal solution either.

Its mostly a problem if your pet is ranged and you are melee, or vice versa, but I dont use SoR much anymore so…

This thread has become quite heated I see. I can see some value in poison master, and there are certainly alternative condition removal options (especially now with SotF). Personally my preference for EB really ony comes from my love of trap builds, which whilst fun, do back you into a corner utility, rune and even sigil wise. EB is just the best solution to condition removal for traps, IMO, but in another setup I could surely see myself taking Poison Master over EB (make not Bark Skin though :P but I couldnt say without trying it).

Cufufalating.8479:

It is a problem I have had when using SoR. Especially since you often will want to pet swap after using the signet, so swapping to make you pet be next to you before using the signet is not really an ideal solution either.

Its mostly a problem if your pet is ranged and you are melee, or vice versa, but I dont use SoR much anymore so…

This thread has become quite heated I see. I can see some value in poison master, and there are certainly alternative condition removal options (especially now with SotF). Personally my preference for EB really ony comes from my love of trap builds, which whilst fun, do back you into a corner utility, rune and even sigil wise. EB is just the best solution to condition removal for traps, IMO, but in another setup I could surely see myself taking Poison Master over EB (make not Bark Skin though :P but I couldnt say without trying it).

This thread was never about “You need to take Poison Master over EB”. It’s just that some people took it that way…. Idk…

But you are right, there are certain builds that will benefit from this trait, while other builds, it simply won’t work.

ItIsFinished.9462:

I was one of the first Rangers to theorycraft a Celestial build for 1vs1 and Zerg play. At first people were critical of it. Then, a couple months later you started seeing builds pop up….many builds. This will be one of those traits people will use, and like it. They’ll find ways to implement and utilize the high poison uptime, while not being pigeon holed into one weapon set. Even you, Xsorus, will one day post a build with this trait implemented, and I will bump this thread reminding you of your criticism.

You’re going to be waiting a very long time, unless Anet magically changes how the Condition system of this game works..I’ll never choose a extra bleed tic and something i already have a lot of over removing 3 conditions every 10 seconds passively.

Gonna have to agree with Xsorus on this one.

This is my case with Poison Master:
I love running spiders/sword/dagger and can easily apply and re-apply perma poison. The extra poison damage (equivalent of 1 stack of bleed) is definitely not worth it.

Empathic Bond should never kill your pet; 3 conditions hardly puts any pressure on the pet.

Axe/Dagger + Sword/torch is actually better than sword/dagger. Don’t throw all your evades in the same basket.

if youre on a good coordinated team, having a poison bot can never be a bad thing. i believe condi thieves can do something similar now as well. want someone dead? perma poison as your team focuses them. 2-3 applications of poison is nothing on a bunker or d/d ele, they’ll cleanse it, dodge it. try perma with the pet swaps.

i see tanky utility rangers becoming really good. im calling it right now… x/x/30/x/30 with BM heals, or enhanced petting zoo with x/x/30/30/x which i actually dread.

edit: yep just tested a rudimentary 0/0/30/10/30 settlers build without any minmaxing, and specs that depend on stealth + heal like thieves and mesmers are crushed. bunkers with perma poison on them have half the survivability. have fun guys.

kiwituatara.6053:

Gonna have to agree with Xsorus on this one.

This is my case with Poison Master:
I love running spiders/sword/dagger and can easily apply and re-apply perma poison. The extra poison damage (equivalent of 1 stack of bleed) is definitely not worth it.

Empathic Bond should never kill your pet; 3 conditions hardly puts any pressure on the pet.

If you are running dual spiders, then there is no reason to take Poison Master.( I edited my OP to further reflect my thoughts)

But in my case I’m running dual birds, so my pets are hitting 2-4k hits, while dropping blindness, chill and 10 seconds of poison on my enemy’s.

but whats the point of running dual spiders? they dont give ON DEMAND poison.

mistsim.2748:

but whats the point of running dual spiders? they dont give ON DEMAND poison.

Condition Coverage, Anyway all spiders have the Poison Field (which isn’t super great) but more importantly a 4 second immobilize with Malicous Training, and one of the Spiders has access to an incredibly long duration poison whenever it hits for its F2, The other you generally use has Weakness/Vulnerability one, but what makes it incredibly good is the fact you pick up intimidation training, making it so they’re applying a Cripple that’s bloody insane as well, the poison spider for example will do close to 30 seconds of poison alone, along with 20 seconds of cripple

Lévis.5489:

Axe/Dagger + Sword/torch is actually better than sword/dagger. Don’t throw all your evades in the same basket.

Not really true.

That’s a play style choice right there.

Wow. I was very skeptical of this trait at first, but ended up giving it a shot with a 0/2/6/6/0 SotF build for WvW roaming. It feels a lot better in action than it looks on paper. Even with the poison available via SB and sword, this trait made a noticeable impact on my poison up-time and healing reduction. I don’t think I lost a single 1v1 while running this trait.

And warriors? I almost feel sorry for them (but not quite…)

That said, I didn’t lose any 1v1s while running the same build with Bark Skin instead of Poison Master, so I am still undecided there. I am also considering dropping 10 points from WS to pick up Keen Edge for the added bleed burst.

All-in-all, this trait seems like a solid add to our stable while not over-shadowing everything else.

http://gw2skills.net/editor/?vMAQRAsY3fjMq0xaNLusQ1agYVQQtHcy8Yy9YU+HAl8pmA-TwAAzCpI8R5jzHjPSfs+M8Y5xukZJA

This is what I run at the moment. It averages around 51 potential condition clears per minute.

Might need to change the amulet since the build doesn’t need crit chance.

Apologize for the tangent but you know what would be interesting, if Poison Master changed all the ranger’s poison applications (Sw#3, Sb#2, dagger, trap, etc) to torment application.

Talk about having to choose between healing reduction/damage and movement control/damage. Granted a pet could cover the poison so the torment application could not be too high. But really,the toxic alliance sylvari rangers had it, why not us eh?

I can only presume that Ranger finally having access to a few viable specs has driven people insane, bunch of people need to calm down here. Either that or there is a secret ploy to have EB buffed by pretending its bad (I wouldn’t say no to EB and Bark Skin being merged if we are trying this).

Either way I don’t think devoting our utilities, runes, sigils and heals to condi removal so we can take poison master is really better then just taking sigil of doom and EB but I’ll test it when the stars align and both me and Karka are awake at the same time.

i see that most dont like poison master
what would make it interesting if poison have lesser impact on
a poison master.
i mean try to fight against a thief that apply perma poison und u cant clean it
its horrible just because we must waste our heal some time
reduced poison duration isnt helpful because its really easy for most classes to stack poison uptime
maybe we have lesser heal decrease when under poison? or no and we have no healing decrease?
then no one can argue that PM is weak

So… to everyone saying that Poison master is bad, me and my friends were dueling yesterday (a warrior running Mace/Shield + GS and a Guardian running a DPS spec) and after me winning quite a few of the matches (it was always very close between me and the warrior and it normally came down to “can he run away and come back?” sorta thing) they both commented how the #1 damage source on them was poison by quite a chunk, and the thing is i regularly had ~15 stacks of bleed on them, but with poison mastery we just have so much poison uptime that even through cleanses it’s still there, ticking and preventing their healing.

So to the people saying it doesn’t deal damage or w/e bullkitten, i’ve now got evidence to say you’re wrong.

Durzlla.6295:

So… to everyone saying that Poison master is bad, me and my friends were dueling yesterday (a warrior running Mace/Shield + GS and a Guardian running a DPS spec) and after me winning quite a few of the matches (it was always very close between me and the warrior and it normally came down to “can he run away and come back?” sorta thing) they both commented how the #1 damage source on them was poison by quite a chunk, and the thing is i regularly had ~15 stacks of bleed on them, but with poison mastery we just have so much poison uptime that even through cleanses it’s still there, ticking and preventing their healing.

So to the people saying it doesn’t deal damage or w/e bullkitten, i’ve now got evidence to say you’re wrong.

Sorry, but that’s bullkitten. They may commented that that poison was the biggest issue for them, since they have strong healing, but I don’t believe in your statement that it did more damage than regulary applied 15 stacks of bleeding as you say.

Poison with poison master does damage equal to 3 stacks of bleeding vs. frequent 15 stacks of bleeding.

That’s a huge difference and I have trouble taking this seriously when you have only 1 more source of poison every 12 seconds taking perfect conditions you had around 5 times better damage from it.
Assuming you know what’ does “covering” bleeding mean, but hey, if you managed to stack 15 stacks couple times at least, I guess you should, shouldn’t you ?

Aside from that, I think that some people here are overhyped like a starving man for a sandwich.
I know that we got buffed, I know it’s cool and those patch notes are first for a long time that do anything significant to Ranger.
But honestly speaking, these things are not like Ranger’s long time-awaited salvation for all problems or such a big thing.
These are options. Some of them are pretty good, b/c devs aimed to try to solve some certain expectioned things (Survival of the Fittest), some are just side effects of having no idea (Strider’s) and some are basic options (the rest).
If the only condition you can really keep up is poison, then poison master is a buff. But if you can apply few stacks of bleeding, burning and keep them there, it’s a mere increase.

Rym.1469:

Durzlla.6295:

So… to everyone saying that Poison master is bad, me and my friends were dueling yesterday (a warrior running Mace/Shield + GS and a Guardian running a DPS spec) and after me winning quite a few of the matches (it was always very close between me and the warrior and it normally came down to “can he run away and come back?” sorta thing) they both commented how the #1 damage source on them was poison by quite a chunk, and the thing is i regularly had ~15 stacks of bleed on them, but with poison mastery we just have so much poison uptime that even through cleanses it’s still there, ticking and preventing their healing.

So to the people saying it doesn’t deal damage or w/e bullkitten, i’ve now got evidence to say you’re wrong.

Sorry, but that’s bullkitten. They may commented that that poison was the biggest issue for them, since they have strong healing, but I don’t believe in your statement that it did more damage than regulary applied 15 stacks of bleeding as you say.

Poison with poison master does damage equal to 3 stacks of bleeding vs. frequent 15 stacks of bleeding.

That’s a huge difference and I have trouble taking this seriously when you have only 1 more source of poison every 12 seconds taking perfect conditions you had around 5 times better damage from it.
Assuming you know what’ does “covering” bleeding mean, but hey, if you managed to stack 15 stacks couple times at least, I guess you should, shouldn’t you ?

Aside from that, I think that some people here are overhyped like a starving man for a sandwich.
I know that we got buffed, I know it’s cool and those patch notes are first for a long time that do anything significant to Ranger.
But honestly speaking, these things are not like Ranger’s long time-awaited salvation for all problems or such a big thing.
These are options. Some of them are pretty good, b/c devs aimed to try to solve some certain expectioned things (Survival of the Fittest), some are just side effects of having no idea (Strider’s) and some are basic options (the rest).
If the only condition you can really keep up is poison, then poison master is a buff. But if you can apply few stacks of bleeding, burning and keep them there, it’s a mere increase.

You do realize that the way condis are cleansed poison is one of the lowest on the food chain right? Most condition cleanses have a priority system, it’s NOT first on, last off, the reason i had 15 stacks of bleeding is because of how trivial it is to stack when you’re using Axe/Dagger with geomancy sigs and krait runes.

Bleeding at 15 stacks is almost ALWAYS going to be the first condition that gets pulled off when they cleanse, while my poison was able to sit on there ticking nearly endlessly, not to mention I had 3 (4 if you include the runes, which i’m not) poison applications, one of which is 7.5s, one is 6.5s, and one is 11s, which is easy to keep at 100% even if one, or two of the applications are being cleansed regularly because I, unlike most rangers, stagger them unless i absolutely need the evade.

Durzlla.6295:

Most condition cleanses have a priority system, it’s NOT first on, last off,

“For generic condition removal, the most recently applied condition or conditions will be removed first” -Gw2 wiki
Not really. There’s a reason why Necromancers run Signet of Spite, it’s a cover.

Some condition removals prioritize, same like condition/boon strips, corruptions or steals. But not the most.

Durzlla.6295:

So… to everyone saying that Poison master is bad, me and my friends were dueling yesterday (a warrior running Mace/Shield + GS and a Guardian running a DPS spec) and after me winning quite a few of the matches (it was always very close between me and the warrior and it normally came down to “can he run away and come back?” sorta thing) they both commented how the #1 damage source on them was poison by quite a chunk, and the thing is i regularly had ~15 stacks of bleed on them, but with poison mastery we just have so much poison uptime that even through cleanses it’s still there, ticking and preventing their healing.

So to the people saying it doesn’t deal damage or w/e bullkitten, i’ve now got evidence to say you’re wrong.

The damage isn’t worth it coz numbers don’t lie. That 50% bonus is equivalent to 1 stack of bleeds.

Rym.1469:

Durzlla.6295:

Most condition cleanses have a priority system, it’s NOT first on, last off,

“For generic condition removal, the most recently applied condition or conditions will be removed first” -Gw2 wiki
Not really. There’s a reason why Necromancers run Signet of Spite, it’s a cover.

Some condition removals prioritize, same like condition/boon strips, corruptions or steals. But not the most.

That’s pretty weird then, because i KNOW my bleeding and burning is what i apply first and then cover with poison, and then normally cover that with chill/cripple (habit from GW1), maybe it’s because the burning field + keen edge or something is causing them to be shifted to be removed first.

Also wanted to add that in an actual combat scenario poison mastery is significantly useful due to the poison being so hard to remove, however in a perfect vacuum scenario where nothing is being cleansed every so you can maintain things as long and easily as you like, it’s probably not all that great (the damage increase is STILL and increase though).

kiwituatara.6053:

Durzlla.6295:

So… to everyone saying that Poison master is bad, me and my friends were dueling yesterday (a warrior running Mace/Shield + GS and a Guardian running a DPS spec) and after me winning quite a few of the matches (it was always very close between me and the warrior and it normally came down to “can he run away and come back?” sorta thing) they both commented how the #1 damage source on them was poison by quite a chunk, and the thing is i regularly had ~15 stacks of bleed on them, but with poison mastery we just have so much poison uptime that even through cleanses it’s still there, ticking and preventing their healing.

So to the people saying it doesn’t deal damage or w/e bullkitten, i’ve now got evidence to say you’re wrong.

The damage isn’t worth it coz numbers don’t lie. That 50% bonus is equivalent to 1 stack of bleeds.

Oh it’s not is it? Why isn’t it worth it? If you’re trying to min/max condi damage it’s absolutely worth it, if you’re running Rabid or Settlers armor + a condi cleanse, it’s also worth it, there’s very few situations for a condi build going 30 into WS to NOT take poison master.

EB and Barkskin are both very powerful defensive traits, but just by going 30 into WS you’ve got a kitten ton of survivability vs physical damage, and then going 30 into NM covers your condi weakness.

The trait is worth it, damage increase is damage increase, this is not going to be an end all be all trait that EB -was- (for some people) pre patch, it is still a very solid, and powerful trait that should be utilized.

Empathic Bond Changes:

• Feb 26th, 2013 – “This trait now transfers three conditions to the ranger’s pet every 10 seconds rather than all of them.”
• April 15th, 2014 – “Fixed a bug so conditions will only be transferred when the pet is alive.”

Sorry but EB isn’t all that anymore.

EB used to be the “go to” or “must have” trait back in the day. Then, Anet nerfed it by reducing it to only 3 conditions removed instead of all of them. Then, Anet nerfed it again by making it no longer remove conditions if your pet is dead.

I moved away from EB when the first nerf was introduced. Then, the second was introduced(it was actually a bug fix), that sealed the deal. With this new patch there are a few new ways to remove conditions, some of us are utilizing them already(SotF, Purity Sigils)….and….some are still stuck back in Feb 26th, 2013.

Please durzlla….fight my ranger and tell me that healing spring is a viable heal and that empathic bond isnt needed

I have been playing nothing but PvP for months and im tired of completely destroying rangers and wondering where the heck they are getting these terrible builds from then i come to the forums and every kitten build is here…