Guild Wars 2

http://strawpoll.me/882885

to me, the profession mechanics of Engineer & Elementalist show that limiting profession complexity should not be an excuse with regards to controlling Ranger pets. it is a double standard.

pet management has potential for so much more depth than we have & much of our team utility is locked away in pet passives.

old argument from Sharp the last time this topic was under discussion:

“PvE Elementalists will often sit in Fire attunement for long periods without swapping.”

that is the CHOICE of that Elementalist to play this way. Rangers are given no CHOICE. Rangers are forcefully handicapped to cater to the lowest denominator.

No, we don’t need it and it would make it very clunky in terms of being able to command the pet.

And we are not handicapped, the pet AI is really smart on when to use their skills, if you stop for a moment and learn when the pets use their skills and fight around that, as well as watching your pet to see what they’re doing, you’ll be a lot better off and realize that it’s in no way, shape or form “random”.

And i don’t know why you’re dragging Engineer and elementalist in here, they have very simple prof mechanics, the engineers profession mechanic is about as simple as it gets, all it is is 4 extra utility skills. Elementalist just gives them 2 additional weapon swaps, not very complex.

The reason that elementalists sit in one attunement in PvE is because many people play elmenetalist so they can be “The mage” and they want to be an <insert element here> mage and as such they think that they can play effectively by not using any other attunement.

It’d be like if you rolled ranger and think “I don’t wanna use a pet!” so you keep it on passive the whole time and never actually do anything involving the pet and never send it in, you’re gimping yourself because you’re not playing the prof because you have some stupid notion in your head that the square peg will fit through the circle hole.

Durzlla.6295:

the pet AI is really smart

dude…. cmon

What’s the poll?

Anyway, honestly pet AI isn’t bad nor good. There isn’t any!

It simply starts running to close the gap of it’s attack range when you start hitting a mob and it uses its abilities in sequence. Devours only have a script to evade when attacks along with bear’s Defy Pain.

Other than that there’s the pathing chapter which isn’t perfect but let’s be real, it can ever be perfect, still you can help to mitigate it by issuing ocasional retreat and attack commands.

Bottom line you control the pet entirely it merealy follows inputs. If you conceive this, your frustration will be lessen.

The major problem is that half the time in any kind of combat encounter in pvp or WvW the pet is dead in seconds and your left with a 60 second timer on using it again. And the second pet dies as fast as the first one meaning you have no class mechanic to use, let alone use correctly. Combine that with pet F2 skills that have an additonal timers, and your chances of actually using a pet in any meaningful way are extremely slim. Its then further compounded by Anets insistance that Rangers skills “synergize” with the pet, instead of other players.

In PVE the issues are glazed over a bit due to the HP buff the pets got and the bad AI of both the pets and enemies.

Tell me though, does any other profession have its class mechanic completely and utterly disabled for minutes at a time? Does any other profession have its weapon damage reduced to compensate for its class mechanic? Does any other class have multiple timers for a single class mechanic skill?

And this is coming from a player who mains a Ranger. I really like the class, and was a GW1 ranger for 5+years.

Bottom line; Pets while not “broken” are so badly designed and implemented they may as well not even be there for all the good they do.

Durzlla.6295:

No, we don’t need it and it would make it very clunky in terms of being able to command the pet.

And we are not handicapped, the pet AI is really smart on when to use their skills, if you stop for a moment and learn when the pets use their skills and fight around that, as well as watching your pet to see what they’re doing, you’ll be a lot better off and realize that it’s in no way, shape or form “random”.

And i don’t know why you’re dragging Engineer and elementalist in here, they have very simple prof mechanics,the engineers profession mechanic is about as simple as it gets, all it is is 4 extra utility skills. Elementalist just gives them 2 additional weapon swaps, not very complex.

The reason that elementalists sit in one attunement in PvE is because many people play elmenetalist so they can be “The mage” and they want to be an <insert element here> mage and as such they think that they can play effectively by not using any other attunement.

It’d be like if you rolled ranger and think “I don’t wanna use a pet!” so you keep it on passive the whole time and never actually do anything involving the pet and never send it in, you’re gimping yourself because you’re not playing the prof because you have some stupid notion in your head that the square peg will fit through the circle hole.

So much wrong with this, I would not know where to start. Its hard to think this is a real post and not a troll.

Vaxx.3178:

Durzlla.6295:

No, we don’t need it and it would make it very clunky in terms of being able to command the pet.

And we are not handicapped, the pet AI is really smart on when to use their skills, if you stop for a moment and learn when the pets use their skills and fight around that, as well as watching your pet to see what they’re doing, you’ll be a lot better off and realize that it’s in no way, shape or form “random”.

And i don’t know why you’re dragging Engineer and elementalist in here, they have very simple prof mechanics,the engineers profession mechanic is about as simple as it gets, all it is is 4 extra utility skills. Elementalist just gives them 2 additional weapon swaps, not very complex.

The reason that elementalists sit in one attunement in PvE is because many people play elmenetalist so they can be “The mage” and they want to be an <insert element here> mage and as such they think that they can play effectively by not using any other attunement.

It’d be like if you rolled ranger and think “I don’t wanna use a pet!” so you keep it on passive the whole time and never actually do anything involving the pet and never send it in, you’re gimping yourself because you’re not playing the prof because you have some stupid notion in your head that the square peg will fit through the circle hole.

So much wrong with this, I would not know where to start. Its hard to think this is a real post and not a troll.

hes absolutely kidding. ( right??? )

No guys Durzlla has some very valid points..

To simple give us another F like and F5 for another pet skill isnt going to work..
Its a lot of work to rebalance the whole skills to adjust em in the active control.Cause right now some of them are strong cause of the RNG factor..

But i will agree that we need more control over pets.

I think being able to choose which skill we wanna use in F2 would be great…Drakes tail swipe is more important to be a active skill than their current F2..
Moas too, i dont think that there is a right time to give aoe fury, just give it as soon as we engage..I dont care..Healing tho is more importan to be active..

Also remove the cone aoe from some spells..

You can still micromanage the pets to make em hit more often the uncontrolable abilities but its not fun gameplay and it doesnt pay you off for the effort youve made…

Example:you keep your drake close to you and you miss some dmg cause hes not autoattacking…After seeing the target immob you unleash him with F1 and some swiftness buff…Still its not effective enough for the effort you put on..cause he may still have a miss debuff on him, he may try some strange path, he may just decide not to do it by the time he reachs the target, etc etc…We defently need more control over pets and that this will raise the skill floor is a myth….
The skill floor on pet managing is already very high……

If the skills actually worked when you press them(like in other games) it would be good. But Anet has the most crappy companion AI in gaming history so you would end up more frustrated than you are now.

The easist, simplest and best solution to pet F2 skills is to make them all instantaneous. IE no casting time. Simply press and go, ya know the way every other class mechanic works.

Anet keeps insisting that the pet is our class mechanic and yet we cannot use it properly even with supreme micro management because of issues with the system such as skills failing to fire when pressed, pets attacking after F2 skill usage when on passive, pets not able to reach target because its moving at the same speed or faster than the pet, its inability to “see” AoE and running through it, its inability to dodge, and excessive timers on skills.

Yes please. I want to be able to use my eagle’s swiftness when I’m fleeing.
I want to be able to attack with my wolf and have the knockback ready if anything goes wrong.
I want to be able to stealth my jaguar and burst with it the way I want.
I want to be able to immobilize my enemy with my spiders.
I want to be able to heal my party when it’s needed with my moa.
Etc….

Dardamaniac.1295:

No guys Durzlla has some very valid points..

To simple give us another F like and F5 for another pet skill isnt going to work..
Its a lot of work to rebalance the whole skills to adjust em in the active control.Cause right now some of them are strong cause of the RNG factor..

But i will agree that we need more control over pets.

I think being able to choose which skill we wanna use in F2 would be great…Drakes tail swipe is more important to be a active skill than their current F2..
Moas too, i dont think that there is a right time to give aoe fury, just give it as soon as we engage..I dont care..Healing tho is more importan to be active..

Also remove the cone aoe from some spells..

You can still micromanage the pets to make em hit more often the uncontrolable abilities but its not fun gameplay and it doesnt pay you off for the effort youve made…

Example:you keep your drake close to you and you miss some dmg cause hes not autoattacking…After seeing the target immob you unleash him with F1 and some swiftness buff…Still its not effective enough for the effort you put on..cause he may still have a miss debuff on him, he may try some strange path, he may just decide not to do it by the time he reachs the target, etc etc…We defently need more control over pets and that this will raise the skill floor is a myth….
The skill floor on pet managing is already very high……

Durzlla is wrong. See my other reply.

F1 – Attack/Return (tap to toggle)
F1 Held (0.3 to 0.5 sec) – Swap pet // This can be double-tap too, but mechanics for held buttons are already in the game.
F2 – Skill 2
F3 – Skill 3
F4 – Skill 4

I don’t really see your point and it seems like you are contradicting yourself.
“that this will raise the skill floor is a myth….”
Are you saying that it won’t raise the skill floor?
“The skill floor on pet managing is already very high……”
Then why is this a problem?

The skill floor is low enough for the normal player and will teach him/her how the pet moves around the ranger and also how to call/send them back properly.

Imagine an invisible rubber rope connected to you and your pet. The rubber flings the pet to your other side once it’s stretched too much.

Durz is actually right, you can predict what your pet does. For example wolves almost always execute their leap on F1 while drakes use tail swipe. The main problem is of you want to save those abilities. That’s where having access to more pets may be better.

A possible solution is to raise the stats of all pets and make it so you only have one pet.
Then the pet commands can be changed to:
F1 toggle for Auto-attack and return.
F2 as is.
F3 for skill 3
F4 for skill 4

gpassucc.5961:

Durzlla.6295:

the pet AI is really smart

dude…. cmon

Yea no kidding…

React based on how/when our pets use skills? So we are to just stand there and watch our pet miss 60% of it’s attacks or just bug out when we hit F2?

Now I wonder how our wolf will react if an enemy zerg was bearing down on you… would it run in and howl at the perfect time, or would it just run in, stand around for a few seconds before dying..

I can already predict what the pet will do (like every other pet), runs in and dies. Or tries to chase someone down, misses all their attacks.

Some people… lol

Now, if we could possibly assume for the form of our pet (much like we take the form of a snow leopard) and attack that way, that I think might work. However I suppose we’d be considered more of a druid at that point.

I guess haters will just continue to hate. Other than short range and F2 delay pets are fine. Fix #1 and people will complain that Rangers will be the EZ mode bot-carried class and ANet already said they can’t/won’t fix #2 any time soon.

The main problem with Rangers are we are too trait dependent and we don’t have good trait compression/placement. Most of our utilities just suck unless they’re traited. Coupled with bad scaling just leaves a meh class.

gpassucc.5961:

Durzlla.6295:

the pet AI is really smart

dude…. cmon

Lol I mean when they’ll use the skills the AI was out in charge of controlling, when it comes to you making your pet do stuff , like “yo drake use your F2 on that guy!” They’re pretty freaking kittened, and then the whole F4 delay…. But other than that I don’t have many issues with them.

This would be a complete waste of time until pets are actually responsive. When I push F2 and my wolf howls .5 seconds later we can start to discuss the merits of giving me another key to control when my dog leaps. But when I push F2 and 5 seconds go by before my dogs howls makes me wonder how effective telling my dog to leap on my opponent will be.

I’m absolutely fine with the micro management aspect of it. I just don’t think ANet is actually capable of ever making it work.

It has been suggested numerous times before though.

ChillyChinaman.6057:

Durz is actually right, you can predict what your pet does. For example wolves almost always execute their leap on F1 while drakes use tail swipe. The main problem is of you want to save those abilities. That’s where having access to more pets may be better.

A possible solution is to raise the stats of all pets and make it so you only have one pet.
Then the pet commands can be changed to:
F1 toggle for Auto-attack and return.
F2 as is.
F3 for skill 3
F4 for skill 4

To be honest if they did this I’d be ecstatic, I’d much rather have one pet than 2, and then you’d also get micro, and your pet would be stronger to boot.

Honestly, the pet is useless and ANet should get rid of it. When I play my ranger I want to play with my ranger, I don’t want to play with the pet and keep tabs on the pet, I have to keep my eye’s on my opponent to see what they are doing, not the pet!

Pets are awesome. . . concepts.
They lack a few things.
1) Make them run and attack faster than anything else. We need them to get their attacks off.
2) Speed up animations and give a small 60-90 range to allow for the animation. Especially the F2 skills. They need to launch fast!
3) Create a buff of 50% less damage when out of combat. That would help them run in and do damage without dying and manage splash damage.
4) Return to me should result in the pet being unable to attack for 5 seconds AND should immediately take pet out of combat (so it takes 50% less damage)

Durzlla.6295:

ChillyChinaman.6057:

Durz is actually right, you can predict what your pet does. For example wolves almost always execute their leap on F1 while drakes use tail swipe. The main problem is of you want to save those abilities. That’s where having access to more pets may be better.

A possible solution is to raise the stats of all pets and make it so you only have one pet.
Then the pet commands can be changed to:
F1 toggle for Auto-attack and return.
F2 as is.
F3 for skill 3
F4 for skill 4

To be honest if they did this I’d be ecstatic, I’d much rather have one pet than 2, and then you’d also get micro, and your pet would be stronger to boot.

I’d prefer this as well. It’d make a choice of the pet before each battle even more important. I’d probably make it so each of the animals in each “type” fit into 4 fields or a mix of them, Conditions, Power, Support, Healing. So the support one would come with more support oriented F abilities, the power would be direct damage based, the conditions would be running crowd control and conditions, and the healing would be…healing, like each of the 4 attunements elementalists have.

We know the pets aren’t perfect (or the tools we’re given), but if you’re not willing to learn how to micro-manage your pet to keep them alive, attacking, and their skills accessible, you might wanna roll a different class. Not that it’s easy, and it can be incredibly frustrating at times, but it’s absolutely necessary to get the most from the class.

Jaysin X.6740:

We know the pets aren’t perfect (or the tools we’re given), but if you’re not willing to learn how to micro-manage your pet to keep them alive, attacking, and their skills accessible, you might wanna roll a different class. Not that it’s easy, and it can be incredibly frustrating at times, but it’s absolutely necessary to get the most from the class.

This is the tired and old “l2p” excuse, trying to cover up failed pet mechanics. You don’t have much “micro-manage” abilities when our control over the pet is minimal.

It has nothing to do learning how to mico-manage a pet. In PvE, sure it aint hard. In WvW it is a mess.

1. We control one pet ability that has a delay. That is 1/2 kitten d. Do we REALLY need one button for attack and another for retreat? No. One button for attack/retreat, another for “tail swipe/leap/posion/ etc”, and one for swap. Being able to control what your pet does a little more makes more sense.

2. We have melee pets that cant hit a moving target due to world-wide pet AI. Ever run though a pack of wolves without getting hit? Yup, so do enemy players. Anet cant fix this because it would effect every wolf, drake, etc. Again, 1/2 kitten d.

The failings of the pet (and lack of control) is only one reason why this class is sub par.

Vaxx.3178:

Jaysin X.6740:

We know the pets aren’t perfect (or the tools we’re given), but if you’re not willing to learn how to micro-manage your pet to keep them alive, attacking, and their skills accessible, you might wanna roll a different class. Not that it’s easy, and it can be incredibly frustrating at times, but it’s absolutely necessary to get the most from the class.

This is the tired and old “l2p” excuse, trying to cover up failed pet mechanics. You don’t have much “micro-manage” abilities when our control over the pet is minimal.

It has nothing to do learning how to mico-manage a pet. In PvE, sure it aint hard. In WvW it is a mess.

1. We control one pet ability that has a delay. That is 1/2 kitten d. Do we REALLY need one button for attack and another for retreat? No. One button for attack/retreat, another for “tail swipe/leap/posion/ etc”, and one for swap. Being able to control what your pet does a little more makes more sense.

2. We have melee pets that cant hit a moving target due to world-wide pet AI. Ever run though a pack of wolves without getting hit? Yup, so do enemy players. Anet cant fix this because it would effect every wolf, drake, etc. Again, 1/2 kitten d.

The failings of the pet (and lack of control) is only one reason why this class is sub par.

I said the mechanics were not great. Anet is aware of it, but they ain’t changing anytime soon. So we have to make do with what we got.

If they could just give us a popup skill bar like henchmen had in GW1 that would be enough. Most of the problem is a lack of information. All we really need is skill buttons with cooldown timers and click to enable/disable, boons/conditions, and better response times on the F2 abilities.

Jaysin X.6740:

I said the mechanics were not great. Anet is aware of it, but they ain’t changing anytime soon. So we have to make do with what we got.

Right. So my point is, why do people keep bringing up l2p and micro manage, when there is not much to micro manage?

If pets took less AoE damage, could actually hit a moving target, and we had control over the skills, then yes, I could see it as a l2p issue. But its not.

I’ve been in that same boat: i kept getting frustrated, a few pounds on the table, a hundread more “sighs” and now? I keep preaching that instead of wanting the whole game mechanic to change for you, do the one change you can control – change yourself.

And for the 5th or 6th time now, i can’t really recall for sure, i’ll throw it up there: add my name in-game, let’s do a <insert content>, i’d be happy to show how you can work with your brother in arms.

Regardless on wheather you take my invite or not, trust me, the grass is much greener on this side of the fence.

Killsmith.8169:

If they could just give us a popup skill bar like henchmen had in GW1 that would be enough. Most of the problem is a lack of information. All we really need is skill buttons with cooldown timers and click to enable/disable, boons/conditions, and better response times on the F2 abilities.

OMG if all pets/minions/summonables had that then this game would be so much more fun for me.

I want to be able to sync finishers and knockdowns and such with my pets. Give me f1 as autoattck and f2 f3 f4 as pet skills.

Vaxx.3178:

Jaysin X.6740:

I said the mechanics were not great. Anet is aware of it, but they ain’t changing anytime soon. So we have to make do with what we got.

Right. So my point is, why do people keep bringing up l2p and micro manage, when there is not much to micro manage?

If pets took less AoE damage, could actually hit a moving target, and we had control over the skills, then yes, I could see it as a l2p issue. But its not.

Idk why other ppl bring it up, but I was simply saying we have to learn to play with what we’re given. Sure there’s not a ton to micro manage, but there’s enough to make a difference if we actively incorporate it into our playstyle. A dead pet is useless, and 2 dead pets really handicap the Ranger. That’s why I think it’s important to use what we have to always have a pet in the fight. Sure it sucks and sometimes there’s nothing you can do before ole Wolfy gets nuked, but it’s been like this for a year and Anet has made it clear it’s not changing soon.

Half the time most of you guy totally ignore your pet then get mad when it doesn’t insta cast its skills. I know where my pet is most of the time and I have no trouble getting its skills to work. Unless it dazed or inturrpted.

Pets also suffer from summoning sickness. so if you switch pets then use the skill right away it wont work you need like two secinds before using the skill.

Pet also use their big attack after being summon if its not on cool down.

We don’t need more control as it is now rangers don’t use what they have now.

By the way i found that casting either attack or retreat right after the swap and before the cast of F2 greatly improve its response.

Serraphin Storm.2369:

Half the time most of you guy totally ignore your pet then get mad when it doesn’t insta cast its skills. I know where my pet is most of the time and I have no trouble getting its skills to work. Unless it dazed or inturrpted.

Pets also suffer from summoning sickness. so if you switch pets then use the skill right away it wont work you need like two secinds before using the skill.

Pet also use their big attack after being summon if its not on cool down.

We don’t need more control as it is now rangers don’t use what they have now.

^this 100%agree
the best buff that ranger can get would be an int buff ><

okay now some srsly words, full control would be to much micro managment but what would be nice would a kind of set bar for the skills

I would like “Guard!” to give some more control over the pet, rather than being a primary tool to trigger “Nature’s Voice”. Changing the primary class mechanic should be handled with caution, though. The worst issues at the moment are the pet not being able to hit their target when moving and the reaction time on the F2 ability. Those issues are not fixed by giving the player more control over the pet’s abilities. Imagine being able (and forced) to micro-manage every pet ability, but keeping the delay that we are currently plagued by with the F2 command. That would be one step in the right direction, but two steps back.

Yes. At least give us control of 2 skills of our choice. That would be a MASSIVE buff to the ranger that would help players of every skill level. If I want to be highly effective at top pvp play I have to control pet skills through skill canceling so that I can get things like wolf knockdowns when I want/need them.