Guild Wars 2

Tragic Positive.9356:

No synergy with pets that no one wanted or asked for?

I think you rolled the wrong class then, we’ve known since before launch the class was going to have a pet and we went with it for 3 years. I didn’t see anybody asking for the ranger to be turned into a healer, it wasn’t even a thing for the 3 years people have spent with the class. We certainly didn’t ask to have to juggle 2 broken mechanics that don’t synergise with each other.

Tragic Positive.9356:

@Archon

You outdamage others by what? Pets that everyone else has or Might Stacking that Hitzer buried flat with his version of Celestial Ranger?

If so – what does it have in common with Druid, again?

Druid out-damages and completely out-classes core ranger in PvP.

Edit: Also, please reread my post. You sound ignorant when your response includes topics not mentioned in the post you are responding to. Nowhere does the phrase “I out damage others” or anything close to that appear.

Myself and my guild mates will be the first to admit…I stink as a healer. I was awful at it in GW1 so even with the new druid specialization here, don’t expect miracles. With that said, I don’t think its so much the Druid is broken but its a totally different type of gameplay for rangers and therefore not readily accepted by traditional ranger players. I personally do not understand all the functions of the druid and hate feeling like I have been handed a gun and told to fight and no instructions on how to put the bullets in it. I think what is turning some players off the druid is the lack of how to use the skills. As we level up to 80, new skills are unlocked, and we learn to use them. With the druid, you are given a staff and shoved out into the jungle with no real learning phase. I know I will eventually figure it out but right now, I have to really concentrate on masteries. Yup too much to learn all at once for my old brain.

Levetty.1279:

I didn’t see anybody asking for the ranger to be turned into a healer

Than you haven’t been here for longer than I have. Because before the reveal, there was plenty of that on the forums. Some people did want druid to become a healer.
Just like complaints about pet being useless and countless topics about how rangers do not want pets at all (even though I don’t agree with that. I like having a pet. I don’t like having him unreliable).
If you think that community wanted druid to be glued to pet than you’ve been visiting a wrong forum for quiiiiiiite a long time.

Archon.6480:

Druid out-damages and completely out-classes core ranger in PvP.

Edit: Also, please reread my post. You sound ignorant when your response includes topics not mentioned in the post you are responding to. Nowhere does the phrase “I out damage others” or anything close to that appear.

You sound ignorant to reality and I didn’t feel like pointing that out. I asked you to demonstrate what part of druid outdamages other specs. How does druid provide more than Marksmanship (20% flat)? How does it provide more than Nature Magic (up to 12% per boon plus much more damage from pet thanks to might sharing).
Druid brings only 3,75% AoE from Glyph and Grace of the Land that increases your damage when you deal none.

I’m fine with you saying it deals more damage. But if you don’t demonstrate, explain, or provide data in terms of DPS Screenshots or Video records – your answer is nothing but a vague will to argue with people who obviously gave it more effort by calculations, TESTS and what not while you only have your feelings to support you up.

EDIT: My offtopic replies to this thread are quite on topic. Because clearly people who say druid is useless have no idea about the game or the class. Which makes the topic less relevant all in all. But that goes for both sides. For example: Druid doesn’t deal more damage. Druid provides more offensive support than core Ranger, but doesn’t deal more damage.

Tragic Positive.9356:

Levetty.1279:

I didn’t see anybody asking for the ranger to be turned into a healer

Than you haven’t been here for longer than I have. Because before the reveal, there was plenty of that on the forums. Some people did want druid to become a healer.

You can’t just make kitten up and pretend its true.

Nobody asked for Ranger to be a healer because the game wasn’t designed for healers and we were told there would never be one. Ranger players did not make a Ranger 3 years ago to play as a healer. If we wanted to be healers we would have gone to a different game. We wanted Rangers to be Rangers.

Your the Druid bandwagon hopper, you’re the one who thinks Druid is useful just because they said it would be meta in a stream even though all actual time in game before and after HoT launch shows it isn’t needed.

@Levetty

Go 6 months back. Use ctrl+F, search around. Just because you haven’t been using forums it doesn’t mean I have to be the same way. You probably shouldn’t attack people’s awareness if you can’t afford it.
Plenty of people here can second that there were people who wanted to play healers even before HoT was announced and were shut down by most of us.
There was also a topic suggesting druids becoming healers but most of us didn’t like it because we were skeptical about the healing being too weak while ZerkMeta dominates every PvE content (which druids seems to deny because healing is decent).

I’m saying Druids are useful because they are a desired PvP aspect and people in PvE love me every single run I’m in in higher fractals (which are the current end-content).
Just as I love a druid coming in my fractals when I can play straight DPS without worrying about wiping.

I’m the guy who sees a druid is useful based on experience, calculations, tests and observation.
You would be the one who can’t do that and decides to complain on forums about developers who did not knock on your door and fulfill your dreams for you.
Again, if you suck at playing druid – don’t blame the specialization.
If you don’t want to play “druid” – don’t play one. I hate people who blame developers for giving us options. You already have X+1 ways to play a hybrid, Condi, Longbow, Zerk, Full melee, all of them viable – and you can’t suck up the fact that Druid FINALLY offers something different (and everything we lacked at that…)?
Your expectations do not meat reality. That’s the whole problem. You want druid to be something completely different. Exactly like blaming a cookie for not being cake. And I’m not the only person seeing a problem with that attitude.

If you want to blame druid, pick a topic you can prove.

Levetty.1279:

Justine.6351:

Yep, yet another person reinforcing the idea that the elite specs are mandatory upgrades.

Every other class got an elite spec that made the class better, gave them QoL changes, added new interesting, useful and varied roles and gave them fun new twists on their mechanics.

Ranger got a broken mechanic stuck on top of their broken base mechanic with zero synergy and zero use anywhere with only one very niche build in mind.

I don’t think its unfair to ask that Ranger gets a good upgrade like everybody else.

Berserker and tempest are hardly upgrades.

Tragic Positive.9356:

Archon.6480:

Druid out-damages and completely out-classes core ranger in PvP.

Edit: Also, please reread my post. You sound ignorant when your response includes topics not mentioned in the post you are responding to. Nowhere does the phrase “I out damage others” or anything close to that appear.

To be very clear, if you twist a person’s words in your response, or subsequent questioning, you are a liar. This is a form of deception and is what liars do. It tends to make people angry, and suspicious of you.

You sound ignorant to reality and I didn’t feel like pointing that out. I asked you to demonstrate what part of druid outdamages other specs. How does druid provide more than Marksmanship (20% flat)? How does it provide more than Nature Magic (up to 12% per boon plus much more damage from pet thanks to might sharing).
Druid brings only 3,75% AoE from Glyph and Grace of the Land that increases your damage when you deal none.

As if it were impossible to use Marksmanship and/or Nature Magic and Druid…

I’m fine with you saying it deals more damage. But if you don’t demonstrate, explain, or provide data in terms of DPS Screenshots or Video records – your answer is nothing but a vague will to argue with people who obviously gave it more effort by calculations… blah blah

And how are you going to prove that? This is obviously meaningless dribble. Who are people, what calculations? If I don’t demonstrate, explain, etc, etc doesn’t make my claim any less true, just unsubstantiated at worst. Unsubstantiated claims are many times true.

EDIT: My offtopic replies to this thread are quite on topic.

Or are a clear indication of trollish behavior.

Druid provides more offensive support than core Ranger, but doesn’t deal more damage.

This is what I think is False. The control provided by the Druid trait line, glyphs, and CA form, provide a large number of opportunities to line up hard hitting attacks that would otherwise be lost. This, added to the fact that Druids staff cannot be reflected increases the damage dealt by the Druid, in comparison to core Ranger.

So when it all plays out, Druid is more dangerous than Core Ranger, and will deal more damage over time, in a PvP setting, than core ranger. Even if the numbers happen to end up being lower. Because they will be more consistent, more likely to hit, and more devastating.

No, I am not going to substantiate this claim. Please, go to the PvP forum and start a thread labelled Core Ranger deals more damage than Druid and see how far you get with that, if you think I am full of it.

Here are the Druid builds I use, if you think you have a higher damage dealing Ranger, for PvP. Please show us what it is:

MoC Crusader Druid

Thorn Druid

Archon.6480:

To be very clear, if you twist a person’s words in your response, or subsequent questioning, you are a liar. This is a form of deception and is what liars do. It tends to make people angry, and suspicious of you.

You mean… Quoting person’s words makes me a liar. I don’t even…

Archon.6480:

As if it were impossible to use Marksmanship and/or Nature Magic and Druid…

Which only means you need other lines for damage. Druid has nothing in common with the damage itself.

Archon.6480:

And how are you going to prove that? This is obviously meaningless dribble. Who are people, what calculations? If I don’t demonstrate, explain, etc, etc doesn’t make my claim any less true, just unsubstantiated at worst. Unsubstantiated claims are many times true.

If you don’t feel like doing it (being asked 1st), why should I? I’m going to hold the same ground as you. I was referring to people who I’m frequently talking to and playing with (you can’t possibly want me to mention people who you are familiar with and I have no idea about their opinions. That would make me a liar)
I meant my or other people’s calculations that every single person in the world can reproduce and check their value of correctness.

Archon.6480:

The control provided by the Druid trait line, glyphs, and CA form, provide a large number of opportunities to line up hard hitting attacks that would otherwise be lost. This, added to the fact that Druids staff cannot be reflected increases the damage dealt by the Druid, in comparison to core Ranger.

So when it all plays out, Druid is more dangerous than Core Ranger, and will deal more damage over time, in a PvP setting, than core ranger. Even if the numbers happen to end up being lower. Because they will be more consistent, more likely to hit, and more devastating.

Yes. CC is a form of both offensive and defensive support and not “damage” as you are trying to make it sound.
CCing a player means everybody can land their attacks. Not just you. That makes it a support. You pick druid line to be useful (which literally contradicts the OP of the thread), not to deal more damage.

And that’s what druid should be about. That’s what I keep saying all over and over again. For Damaging purposes we have plenty of other builds and trait-lines. Druid is exactly what makes us useful at very long last.
But people expect it to be yet another hammering bursty Damage specialization. But we don’t need that.

That’s what I am trying to explain here the whole time.

idontnoso.9850:

snow.8097:

i can not understand what is wrong with a part (a PART not all meanwhile) of the ranger community
i just started reading here 10min ago and already read suggestions to buff CA#1/2, making the avatar form almost permanent and that the druid is “useless”
Its mental, the druid is one of the most overpowered specs in pvp
And thats not just my opinion, its the opinion of a lot of high class pvp players
U need atleast 2 players and a long amount of time to kill a decent druid, while our pets can do a good amount of crits (5K pet crit in a defensive healer build is just too strong)
The druid will be nerfed, thats for sure, maybe less healing for the druid itself and more for the allies

The problem with your reasoning is that you are only thinking in the aspect of pvp (even though you’re right in that aspect). In pvp yea, druid is strong. OP, no, but it is strong.

In PvE, on the other hand, its not that great. We are still in a zerker meta (imo), and druid healing seems basically pointless. Heals are hard to land, ppl die faster than you can sustain them, AF is so slow to generate to continually sustain allies, and more. So in a sense of PvE, the druid needs some work. But in PvP its great. The hard part here is finding a balance where the druid works and is balanced throughout all aspects of the game.

I just hope raids fix this or make these issues more obvious to the devs.

Overall, Druids are in a good spot, but they can still be improved (not made stronger just cleaned up). My BIGGEST issue is that the druid overshadows the ranger, and now I feel like I HAVE to use the druid. So the standard ranger needs more fixing than the druid.

Judging from your own comments, it’s people that need to adapt rather than the Druid needing “fixes.” Healing was never that pointless, and is more important now-the “meta” has to adapt to “new” GW2, not the Druid to whatever people think is “meta”.

(Not accusing you of anything, or meaning any offense, though. ANet will probably keep balancing Druid in any case, hopefully not for the worst or making Healing Power stats less impactful.)

I would indeed suggest that healing should be made easier for “healers”-it still can be done amazingly well, but it’s harder than just DPS “roles” due to the inherent limitations of the current ally targeting system. Stats-wise, the heals heal for a lot (people sometimes die fast, yes, but sometimes it’s their fault, not the Druid’s lack of healing prowess), but it’s just not the easiest job to do, at least as currently constituted.

Even after Druids, I still think most of the surviving responsibilities are tied to each individual player-one should not depend on an Astral Form ready Druid to help them 100% of the time. The Staff on its own can provide smaller heals in any case, and every bit of HP helps.