Guild Wars 2

Maybe it’s just me but does anyone else feel like the LB/GS weapons are really underwhelming?

I see warriors doing 14k 100 blades and 8k rampage auto attacks, mesmers are dealing crazy damage from mirror blade + shatter, and meanwhile my rapid fire is 8k TOP if they eat the whole channel and my maul is only 4k TOP. I feel like the damage on ranger is pretty bad right now forcing me to go condi.

PvP scenario?
I’m not sure. I’m not really doing that much of a burst, but I have considerable spiked. And much more utility.

I posted a power PvP build that worked pretty fine for me. You might want to take a look.
https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/professions/ranger/PvP-build-Marauder/first#post5221438

Rangers never really had the greatest of bursts. We never could have compared to other Zerks with their bursts. But we have better survivability when it comes to PvP.

Same as above, alternatively you can take beastmastery if you do not fancy the new Quick draw mechanic :

http://intothemists.com/guides/5468-lead_the_zephyr

It has nothing to do with builds. It’s the damage coefficient on our power weapons. While other classes are doing up to 10-15k bursts, we’re stuck at a 8k max over 2.5s channel. Quick draw also doesn’t really let you spike more than before. What kind of idiot would stand there and get hit by a 5 second rapid fire or 2 mauls back to back? I find quick draw more useful for utility skills rather than damage.

Photinous.4628:

It has nothing to do with builds. It’s the damage coefficient on our power weapons. While other classes are doing up to 10-15k bursts, we’re stuck at a 8k max over 2.5s channel. Quick draw also doesn’t really let you spike more than before. What kind of idiot would stand there and get hit by a 5 second rapid fire or 2 mauls back to back? I find quick draw more useful for utility skills rather than damage.

And that’s fine by me.

You can choose whether you’ll use it for utility or not. What’s wrong with using it for utility? If you want a bursty class – roll a thief. And keep suiciding.
I had nothing but success with the new meta post-changes.

yep, I’ve only been playing for a few days and I’m already set on my build. Quick draw and taunt are game changers for power ranger. I’m still using dogs btw, my pets knockdown crits for 5k lol. The shortened rampage as one is amazing. 5-9 seconds of swiftness on wpn swap gives me more mobility than before. 16 second cd heal as one is pretty great to. Honestly there are so many buffs we just got. I’ve been beating condi rangers in wvw by out-maneuvering them with quick draw double swoops. In pvp this would be rough though I think. Gotta take advantage of open spaces.

Well with similar logic, what idiot is going to stand there and let 100 blades hit them or facetank a rampage or a mesmer damage rotation?

Particularly, with Rampage and Mesmers Stunlock burst at the current moment, there is widespread PvP debate and controversy over whether or not these are OP and should be nerfed (for the record, certain aspects of both should be, Rampage is an OP lich that doesn’t remove stances when the transform happens, and the mesmer rotation can 100-0 from stealth; something thieves can’t even do, at least not without a player reacting).

And I mean…. it isn’t like rangers aren’t complained about either on power builds. 8-10k Rapid Fires at 1500 range that can’t be strafed (meaning a target has to either get out of range, Line of Sight, blow a cooldown, or reposition behind/through the ranger in a way that cancels the cast) on a short cooldown are widely considered “OP” and “cheese” by a very vocal (if not large) portion of the community.

It’s just that for whatever reason, your average ranger players lives in a bubble in which they are completely unaware of the metric the class measures and think that if they don’t have their own “broken, in need of nerf” hundred nades PU instagib Killshot Rampage 1 button press skill (which many people would argue we do anyhow), that we are somehow weak.

So no, we really are not weak as rangers. We are balanced, at least damage wise on the LB.

jcbroe.4329:

It’s just that for whatever reason, your average ranger players lives in a bubble in which they are completely unaware of the metric the class measures and think that if they don’t have their own “broken, in need of nerf” hundred nades PU instagib Killshot Rampage 1 button press skill (which many people would argue we do anyhow), that we are somehow weak.

So no, we really are not weak as rangers. We are balanced.

Your entire point revolves around rapid fire. A skill that is really easy to reflect, block, or otherwise mitigate.

You can’t negate engi grenade spam, mes stealth kills, or power thieves ‘all in one’ shawdow step to 4-6k heartseeker like that.

Sorry, ranger is broken and weak. No one is taking them in any PvP scenario, and our PvE usefulness is extremely limited.

Gotejjeken.1267:

jcbroe.4329:

It’s just that for whatever reason, your average ranger players lives in a bubble in which they are completely unaware of the metric the class measures and think that if they don’t have their own “broken, in need of nerf” hundred nades PU instagib Killshot Rampage 1 button press skill (which many people would argue we do anyhow), that we are somehow weak.

So no, we really are not weak as rangers. We are balanced.

Your entire point revolves around rapid fire. A skill that is really easy to reflect, block, or otherwise mitigate.

You can’t negate engi grenade spam, mes stealth kills, or power thieves ‘all in one’ shawdow step to 4-6k heartseeker like that.

Sorry, ranger is broken and weak. No one is taking them in any PvP scenario, and our PvE usefulness is extremely limited.

Engi grenade spam has the exact same counters that ranger LB has.

Mesmer is widely regarded as broken after the patch and will get nerfed in some regard, guaranteed.

Thief is easily counterable and does the same amount of damage a single Rapid Fire does, so I’m not sure the point you’re trying to make there?

If you think for one moment that the reason why nobody takes ranger in PvP is because the damage output is bad, then you just don’t PvP, because damage has never been the reason, which is why I responded the way I did to this thread.

It has been pretty much universally agreed upon the that reason people don’t take rangers on teams is because they lack the team utility that other classes have, and I didn’t for one moment try to dispute the reasoning behind why rangers aren’t being taken as though we are in some incredible spot, I merely stated that ranger damage output was balanced, which you somehow inferred me as saying the class isn’t in need of anything in any department, which is a pretty big leap to take considering the post I just recently made in the Forum Specialist thread floating around here.

Well, you did say ranger is balanced. Meaning not having to much of something and not lacking anything. So, I don’t know if my leap is that big.

My point is, damage output may not be bad…but it is not near what other classes can do at the moment.

Gotejjeken.1267:

Well, you did say ranger is balanced. Meaning not having to much of something and not lacking anything. So, I don’t know if my leap is that big.

My point is, damage output may not be bad…but it is not near what other classes can do at the moment.

Well I am sorry if that was unclear then lol I’ll fix the post. Yeah, I pretty much 100% agree with everything that Sol says on that other thread I mentioned.

What I pretty much see happening is that the things that are over the top right now (Grenadier nade engi, 100-0 perma-stealth mesmer, Rampage stance zerk warrior, burn engi/ele/guard probably through a generic burning nerf, thief “I can have my cake and eat it too” everything in one spec D/P build, etc) are going to receive some sort of hit, and then all of the “bads” will go back to complaining that “Ranger is OP, pew pew too strong” again.

Me personally, I’m hoping that Druid at least addresses some of the issues the class has with team utility and AoE damage with the Staff and introduced utilities, but I still completely doubt that we’ll ever see the powerful offensive utility we need like boon punishment and extreme control options and mobility that make the other common power builds on teams competitive for the slots they take on team comps (Thief, Guardian until the most recent patch where people don’t think it’s good anymore now as a power/zerk build, Mesmer, Warrior, and to some extent Necro).

As a condi-pure build, we might be able to compete with engis in some places if engis get the changes that take some of their damage over the top, but again, we still really don’t have the same caliber of AoE damage or bring the same amount of controlling options at the end of the day.

But at least the damage is there at the end of the day without abusing any bugs/builds. I still remember the amount of effort I (we all) spent, extensive forum discussion after extensive forum discussion, for ANet to even take notice of those discussions and “buff” Rapid Fire to half the original channel time because the skill was horrible before, so it isn’t that I don’t want buffs, I just want to make sure that ANet gets around to finally buffing the right things to give us some best in slot competing options, and I personally don’t think that damage, at least not Longbow damage, needs to be on that list (good arguments can be made for the GS auto and auto, and some weapon revamps if not damage boosts need to happen for Whirling Defense on offhand Axe, shortbow as well, and warhorn. Also, the speed of the mainhain Axe autoattack projectile needs a 25-50% velocity boost imo. But I could make a whole thread on the changes I think need to happen, and still might as we approach HoT, I was waiting for the Druid announcement though lol).

Ranger is very weak in dmg compared to other zerker classes, which you could say it’s expected – they’ve always been better in bunkery condition specs.

In PvP especially you take a critical dmg hit because you would need to run marauder as you would simply melt with berserker (15k hp with no toughness against a thief / mesmer / warrior or cele ele , good luck with that) on so there’s one aspect to it. But the other problem is our dmg coefficients are simply way too low to deliver burst damage consistently. You can run as many dmg % modifiers as you want and you still won’t be able to dish out the damage any other zerker class does which is , like I said maybe expected due to your pet and simply put I think anet wants rangers to be an evasion bunker class with conditions more than anything.

Another problem, almost all competitive cele ele’s/zerk eles run Stone heart now, which really hurts you – no critical hits from a ranger , you can really just laugh at the damage. Now, you can say that’s with every class and it is BUT ranger is one of the classes that really relies on dmg output first because our defensives are no where near the defensives of other berserker classes mainly thief, warrior, mesmer.

LB ranger (and ranger in general) has always been about sustained damage, not burst.

Fluffball.8307:

LB ranger (and ranger in general) has always been about sustained damage, not burst.

This is true, which is one of the many reasons you don’t see it at all in top tier competitive PvP because even zerker ranger, you don’t get burst, you just get sustained damage with low survivability which makes you such an easy target for focus against top tier organized teams. The first thing a team will do is focus the ranger down using ele / thief , which is easy as ele has teleports as well as thief so if you’re in longbow you will simply get trained to death.

You can only hope your team can take care of the guys on the node while you’re getting 1upped before you become rally bait.

sounds like you guys need a kittening support group.

Fluffball.8307:

LB ranger (and ranger in general) has always been about sustained damage, not burst.

Yeah, Devs for a long time have been saying ranger is about “sustained damage” and not “burst” … which I’ve always found extremely entertaining because all classes have “sustained damage”, it’s called “auto attack” loOLOLMFAOSADROFLPANDACOPTER

mistsim.2748:

sounds like you guys need a kittening support group.

I will ask you this..

When have you seen a power ranger in a top tier competitive tournament game besides Eurantien who becomes rally bait every fight because he got focused. In their game against the abjured he literally died every fight first and got the lowest points. Eurantien is a good power ranger too but against good teams power ranger simply doesn’t work because they know how to shut them down so easily. In most of his games he had to swap to condi in order to be half-effective and still died alot because ranger lacks 1on1 prowess now on point against goods.

Funny you’re so good at power ranger and talk about high MMR yet haven’t seen you in any top tier team competing in the tournaments. I wonder why…. Oh right, because fighting in unranked/ranked queues means you’re fighting the “best” already so it doesn’t matter, right?

Power Rangers don’t just feel weak post-update, they are weak post-update. Speaking purely from longbow, because it does seem like other weapons were improved upon though.

Longbow Power Ranger lost 25-75% total damage based on other stats currently in use and skill in question. I started a thread a few days ago with more detailed information on that.

Now, look at every other class post update. Did anyone else take that hit? Did any other weapon/class combination take that kind of reduction? No. So, what I see a lot in here, is that Longbow Ranger’s were fine in PvE and PvP before the update, and now, after the update, they are still somehow fine, even though they took a massive hit to damage.

Does anyone actually see the logic in this?

Indy.8540:

Power Rangers don’t just feel weak post-update, they are weak post-update. Speaking purely from longbow, because it does seem like other weapons were improved upon though.

Longbow Power Ranger lost 25-75% total damage based on other stats currently in use and skill in question. I started a thread a few days ago with more detailed information on that.

Now, look at every other class post update. Did anyone else take that hit? Did any other weapon/class combination take that kind of reduction? No. So, what I see a lot in here, is that Longbow Ranger’s were fine in PvE and PvP before the update, and now, after the update, they are still somehow fine, even though they took a massive hit to damage.

Does anyone actually see the logic in this?

Finally some one else adressing this issue I mean what happened to my LB dmg I pretty much only run GS and lead the wind is a joke pretty much since remorseless LB does even more dmg o but lead the win has peirce u might say that is true but with remorseless LB and rage runes I can basicly do the same dmg as I did before patch and that was without peirce they really screwed it up and dont get me started on that massive nerf to opening strike which no one seems to have noticed yet

Photinous.4628:

my maul is only 4k TOP.

Personal top maul so far in WvW. [img]http://i.imgur.com/dJZx1PH.jpg[/img] It was on a theif, and I wish I was recording. But yea, path of scars can easliy do 6k back and forth, maul do 10-15k normally(which might I add was hitting pre patch, and since my damage has gone up).

Tragic Positive.9356:

Rangers never really had the greatest of bursts

I disagree. gs and axe oh have always had burst. Rapid fire is meh. Yes other classes have better burst, but with quick draw, we have bursty rotations.

Indy.8540:

Power Rangers don’t just feel weak post-update, they are weak post-update. Speaking purely from longbow, because it does seem like other weapons were improved upon though.

Longbow Power Ranger lost 25-75% total damage based on other stats currently in use and skill in question. I started a thread a few days ago with more detailed information on that.

Now, look at every other class post update. Did anyone else take that hit? Did any other weapon/class combination take that kind of reduction? No. So, what I see a lot in here, is that Longbow Ranger’s were fine in PvE and PvP before the update, and now, after the update, they are still somehow fine, even though they took a massive hit to damage.

Does anyone actually see the logic in this?

I totally agree with you we lost stats, we got more or less balanced. While the other classes got outright buffed.

Unfortunately ranger is overlooked by anet. They have made the class require a lot more effort, and thinking to do well with it. Then add the fact we keep getting “bug fixes” that making us weaker and weaker.

Ranger is in a niche spot right now. It is only really good at roaming/dueling and +1s. The only thing ranger really brings to the table for groups is precision and furry. Aside from that burst and 1v1s.

Eval.2371:

Tragic Positive.9356:

Rangers never really had the greatest of bursts

I disagree. gs and axe oh have always had burst. Rapid fire is meh. Yes other classes have better burst, but with quick draw, we have bursty rotations.

That is called spike, not Burst. Yes, our spikes were buffed. Our burst went up only by remorseless.

I though spike was coordinated bursts?

very loose term

spike= Large Co-ordinated attacks , like in volly ball set up a spike to cause a point win.

burst = High amount or vast amounts of damage in one skill be it a channel and or a skill with a situation requirement , this excludes chaining skills aka PoS to maul would be considered a Spike “set up and damage”.

Tragic Positive.9356:

Eval.2371:

Tragic Positive.9356:

Rangers never really had the greatest of bursts

I disagree. gs and axe oh have always had burst. Rapid fire is meh. Yes other classes have better burst, but with quick draw, we have quik bursty rotations.

That is called spike, not Burst. Yes, our spikes were buffed. Our burst went up only by remorseless.

Remorseless does add to the spike. I define Spike is a single large hit or hits that appear as one and burst is more less an amount of damage you can do roughly in 6 seconds.

When I see you telling me 34+k in 6 seconds is low burst I am confused.

Here is a simple combo with avg numbers:

1. Path of scars: 6k + 4k
2. Maul: 12k
3. Two criting aa’s: 4k
4. Maul 8k

That is a 34k burst rotation which is going to +/- roughly 3k damage vs diff armor discrepancies. I am talking from wvw experience here, not pve. Even the opposite rotation which is not a full rotation still has good damage.

1. Maul:12k
2. PoS:6+4k
3. 6 auto attacks: ~10k

is still a respectable 32k and PoS is back up

Now I am not claiming that were a Shatter Mesmer, or Signet Theif with instantaneous spikes, which may be what your referring to, but to say that rangers don’t have good burst is a bit of an understatement. Additionally our burst is more situational as requires the player to land the full combo, which for some is hard.

Well, I might be wrong in these definitions since I took some of them from other games as well. If that’s the case, I’m sorry for any misunderstandings I might have caused.

I knew spike to be a “section of damage rotation or sequence of attacks that ramps up the damage/DPS for a short period of time”.
I knew burst to be a “sequence of attacks to hit the target for the highest damage possible and damage being dealt in least time possible”

For example… Mesmer’s GS #2 into Shatter F1 into GS#3. That’s called burst because all the damage is being dealt almost the same second.
If you did it in sequence of GS#3 > Shatter F1 > GS#2 – it would still be considered a spike, but not burst anymore. The DPS might be close to same, but the time for enemy to react to this burst is much more limited.

If you know the expressions the other way round – just swap the meanings and you’ll know what I had in mind. We have spikes, because the DPS peaks at points where Maul or PoS hit the target. But we’ll never be able to take 80% of the enemy’s HP in a blink of an eye like a mesmer or Thief can.