Guild Wars 2

Predator’s Instinct
Apply Cripple to foes you hit that are below the health threshold. 50% health. 10s cripple. 30s CD.

Predator’s Instinct could be such a great trait, and I would love to use it, but the huge CD totally ruins it imo. 30s CD on a cripple is absurd since they get cleansed with reasonable frequency.

I think it would be far better if it just had the values divided by 5. So, apply Cripple to foes you hit that are below the health threshold. 50% health. 2s cripple. 6s CD.

Any thoughts?

imo, that cripple duration you proposed is too short for a trait that only procs when the target goes below 50%.

Could be better, but not that short. Just cut it in half. 5sec Cripple / 15sec CD

you’re requesting them to essentially revert the trait to what it was, and it was NEVER used in that state because the cripple it applied was totally ignorable.

Tbh, the only thing i want them to change on the trait is for it to not be a 30s CD overall, but a 30s CD for that target, maybe put a 10s ICD on the effect as a whole, so you can’t just barrage a zerg and ruin everyone in there whose below 50%.

It’s just kinda annoying that we can’t apply a huge cripple against a new target after the old target died. The long cripple is very nice and i wouldn’t want that changed at all.

Razor.9872:

imo, that cripple duration you proposed is too short for a trait that only procs when the target goes below 50%.

It procs whenever you hit a foe below 50%, not just the 1st time they do. So with a short CD, it could be continually applied, not just once every 30s.

Durzlla.6295:

you’re requesting them to essentially revert the trait to what it was, and it was NEVER used in that state because the cripple it applied was totally ignorable.

Tbh, the only thing i want them to change on the trait is for it to not be a 30s CD overall, but a 30s CD for that target, maybe put a 10s ICD on the effect as a whole, so you can’t just barrage a zerg and ruin everyone in there whose below 50%.

It’s just kinda annoying that we can’t apply a huge cripple against a new target after the old target died. The long cripple is very nice and i wouldn’t want that changed at all.

I had to look it up on the wiki history, but yeah, it was a 15s CD before but foes under 25% health, with a 2s cripple. That is very weak. But the 15s CD is still quite large for the duration, at 2s/6s you get to reapply quite often.

I like the long cripple too, but its kinda weak when you get someone to 50%, apply the cripple which is like 13s and then they cleanse it 3s later with a passive remove. If it was as you suggested, that would be cool too, but a total re-code of the trait? I was just suggesting a reduction in values across the board so the up-time % is the same, just more frequently applied, to have a shorter recharge so it can be reapplied.

Compare it to thief’s Ankle Shots; pistol crits have 60% chance to cripple for 3s, 10s CD. Master trait.

They already have things such as “Remorseless” that refresh once a target has been killed. If they apply that to traits such as Predator’s Instinct, things could be so much better…

Agree, then it would be much better.

I’d rather bleed them more with Keen Edges … is even better if you also have SotF since that makes it also remove 2 conditions and give you Fury.

If I wanted to cripple (or chill) someone reliably … Shortbow #4, Axe #3, Dagger #5 … Eagle/Hawk w/ Intimidation Training.

Wondrouswall.7169:

They already have things such as “Remorseless” that refresh once a target has been killed. If they apply that to traits such as Predator’s Instinct, things could be so much better…

This would also be a very nice change, I personally don’t have issues with people cleansing my cripple, likely because I run a celestial build and am always procing bleeds, poisons, burns, vuln etc so they very rapidly cover my cripple. However, id like to be able to apply the cripple to more than one person every 30s, it’d be nice to have some way to refresh it…

Personally, I find reapplication more valuable than duration, so I like the idea behind the proposed change, but I also find both 2 seconds and 6 seconds a bit on the low side.

The two sweet spots I think I like are either 4 second cripple, 10 second cooldown, or 8 second cripple, 15 second cooldown.

I can’t actually mathematically justify those number either, I just know I’d actually use the trait if it were either of those haha.

sees Durzlla
Quick, everyone jump their canines on him … can’t let him escape again :-p

@Durzlla:
Emphasis on the “usually”. Some cleanses are full … though those are quite often the ones on the longest cooldowns

@jcbroe:
Which brings me to what you said … I agree. I believe more in reapplication than I do in duration for conditions. Why? Because reapplying most conditions stacks their duration while also being more resilient to the abundance of cleanses in several current meta builds.

For those conditions that stack in quantity instead of duration, I also feel re-application is superior as Torment/Bleeding provide higher DPS with more stacks than they do with more duration … and are more resilient to cleanses.

Bringing it full-circle back to what Durzlla was saying… reapplication also helps cover some more critical conditions. Your opponent will become quite frustrated if you keep applying a little vulnerability here and there that continues to be what their cleanses remove instead of your bleeding/poison/burning/etc..

The cooldown could be reduced slightly but you also have to remember how long the duration can get with a condition build. I’m a trapper and that trait is pretty nice. Can pretty much stack perma-cripple on people because of it + Spike Trap + Crippling Talon.

Sure, you can get a 20s cripple with a 30s CD, but it gets cleansed in 3s and now you have to wait 27s to do it again… Having the ability to re-apply is far stronger than the duration.

Just found Engineer has this same trait with the reduced CD.
Exploit Weakness; Cripple foes you hit when they are below the health threshold. 50% health, Crippled: 5 s, 15s CD.

I’d be happy with a carbon copy of that.

Heimskarl Ashfiend.9582:

Sure, you can get a 20s cripple with a 30s CD, but it gets cleansed in 3s and now you have to wait 27s to do it again… Having the ability to re-apply is far stronger than the duration.

If you use that trait on its own , its one source of cripple and one condition and it is removed , but when you combine that with a barrage+fire+sigil (chill).

it does this first , Barrage applies low duration Cripple (by the 3rd hit chill procs) and the targets hp is close to 70% if he takes no action to avoid said damage which he will due to chill+cripple pretty much makes any leap/Movement skill reduced in its range mean less distance moved and more rounds of barrage being hit ect.

at this point he will condi clear , then predators instinct will trigger for its full duration after a AA or two , lowering his hp to activate the trait.

though this skill is lacking , I’d suggest it says the same its one of those type of traits that is perfectly balanced with skills in mind on its own it does not seem like much and is easly removed.

if anything did change on this trait i would “make it also the pet to apply cripple for X amount of attacks on Trigger.”

That way those builds that don’t have Multipul sources of Movement impairing condis can’t be cleared so easily since it will be reapplied if cleared too quickly.

but in most cases this only effects Zerk bow pony builds.

Zenos Osgorma.2936:

Heimskarl Ashfiend.9582:

Sure, you can get a 20s cripple with a 30s CD, but it gets cleansed in 3s and now you have to wait 27s to do it again… Having the ability to re-apply is far stronger than the duration.

If you use that trait on its own , its one source of cripple and one condition and it is removed , but when you combine that with a barrage+fire+sigil (chill).

it does this first , Barrage applies low duration Cripple (by the 3rd hit chill procs) and the targets hp is close to 70% if he takes no action to avoid said damage which he will due to chill+cripple pretty much makes any leap/Movement skill reduced in its range mean less distance moved and more rounds of barrage being hit ect.

at this point he will condi clear , then predators instinct will trigger for its full duration after a AA or two , lowering his hp to activate the trait.

though this skill is lacking , I’d suggest it says the same its one of those type of traits that is perfectly balanced with skills in mind on its own it does not seem like much and is easly removed.

if anything did change on this trait i would “make it also the pet to apply cripple for X amount of attacks on Trigger.”

That way those builds that don’t have Multipul sources of Movement impairing condis can’t be cleared so easily since it will be reapplied if cleared too quickly.

but in most cases this only effects Zerk bow pony builds.

Spike Trap + Crippling Talon + the trait means nearly a minute of Cripple if your target does not/cannot cleanse. Again I agree that a bit of a reduced cooldown on the trait would be good but if you reduce it too much it could get out of hand. Ranger has the most access to soft CC in the game. We have immobilize, chill and cripple in so many forms.

SpellOfIniquity.1780:

Zenos Osgorma.2936:

Heimskarl Ashfiend.9582:

Sure, you can get a 20s cripple with a 30s CD, but it gets cleansed in 3s and now you have to wait 27s to do it again… Having the ability to re-apply is far stronger than the duration.

If you use that trait on its own , its one source of cripple and one condition and it is removed , but when you combine that with a barrage+fire+sigil (chill).

it does this first , Barrage applies low duration Cripple (by the 3rd hit chill procs) and the targets hp is close to 70% if he takes no action to avoid said damage which he will due to chill+cripple pretty much makes any leap/Movement skill reduced in its range mean less distance moved and more rounds of barrage being hit ect.

at this point he will condi clear , then predators instinct will trigger for its full duration after a AA or two , lowering his hp to activate the trait.

though this skill is lacking , I’d suggest it says the same its one of those type of traits that is perfectly balanced with skills in mind on its own it does not seem like much and is easly removed.

if anything did change on this trait i would “make it also the pet to apply cripple for X amount of attacks on Trigger.”

That way those builds that don’t have Multipul sources of Movement impairing condis can’t be cleared so easily since it will be reapplied if cleared too quickly.

but in most cases this only effects Zerk bow pony builds.

Spike Trap + Crippling Talon + the trait means nearly a minute of Cripple if your target does not/cannot cleanse. Again I agree that a bit of a reduced cooldown on the trait would be good but if you reduce it too much it could get out of hand. Ranger has the most access to soft CC in the game. We have immobilize, chill and cripple in so many forms.

yes that is why i put the change would only benifit Pony zerker LB builds since they ether only have one source of cripple or movement impairing condi or a muddy terrain that is of a short duration.
so for flexabilitys sake , having the pet deal extra cripple also means its avoidable, if you fill in the X with (2secs ) 2secs x 5 attacks working on that each attack if 1/4sec 4 attacks with in 1second , leaving the target with 9secs of cripple making it apply through reapplication just means it can’t be removed easily.

ps i’ve been a ranger since beta no need for the We have this and this , ect I understand what the class has access to really need to stop writing comments like your talking to a Brick wall./

@SpellOfIniquity.1780:
Please take a look at the cripples available to the Engineer … and their immobilizes. They have plenty as well.

Then please look at the discussion on duration versus re-application.

Then please look at these two traits:

• Engineer – Exploit Weakness – Threshold 50% – 5.5s Cripple – 15s ICD
• Ranger – Predator’s Instinct – Threshold 50% – 10s Cripple – 30s ICD

The Engineer’s “Exploit Weakness” does exactly what people are saying they want out of Predator’s Instinct.

Sebrent.3625:

@SpellOfIniquity.1780:
Please take a look at the cripples available to the Engineer … and their immobilizes. They have plenty as well.

Then please look at the discussion on duration versus re-application.

Then please look at these two traits:

• Engineer – Exploit Weakness – Threshold 50% – 5.5s Cripple – 15s ICD
• Ranger – Predator’s Instinct – Threshold 50% – 10s Cripple – 30s ICD

The Engineer’s “Exploit Weakness” does exactly what people are saying they want out of Predator’s Instinct.

Well i’d like the idea of making it more available but im not on the idea of having a Carbon copy of a Engi trait.

and i;d still like the longer duration that way dogged march won;’t render it useless , the 10secs duration is needed but need to have a way to be readly available so i suggested the pet also gets Instinct attacks where each one cripples so if it does get removed the shorter duration from the pet still has a effect , would work very well on Drakes Weakening and crippling the targets nearby when it uses its tail swipe.

Dogged March renders just about anything Cripple/Chill/Immobilize a complete waste of your time as it does nothing but give the Warrior free Regen … especially when paired with Melandru and/or Lemongrass.

As such, 98% reduction on kitten cripple vs 98% reduction on a 10s cripple is moot.

Even if they aren’t stacking … 33% off of 5s is shaving 1.67s off. 33% off of 10s is shaving 3.33s off. Overall, it ends up being the same because you’ll get that 33% off the 5s twice in the time you got off the one 10s cooldown … but then we have cleanses vs no cleanses … and cleanses favor re-application over duration … I don’t know many warriors that are hurting for ways to cleanse cripple.

Heck, Warriors cleanse cripple about the same as Elementalists apply boons … practically every time they break wind :-p

Even with the proposed changes I still see this as the weakest adept trait in marks.

Sebrent.3625:

@SpellOfIniquity.1780:
Please take a look at the cripples available to the Engineer … and their immobilizes. They have plenty as well.

Then please look at the discussion on duration versus re-application.

Then please look at these two traits:

• Engineer – Exploit Weakness – Threshold 50% – 5.5s Cripple – 15s ICD
• Ranger – Predator’s Instinct – Threshold 50% – 10s Cripple – 30s ICD

The Engineer’s “Exploit Weakness” does exactly what people are saying they want out of Predator’s Instinct.

I never said it shouldn’t be changed just to keep in mind that we already have a lot of soft CC. Don’t ask for huge buffs on a trait that doesn’t really need it.

It’s not really a “huge buff” its keeping the same %‘s its just more usable when you can reapply it, it’s far too long a CD to really be useful right now.

Honestly, I’m with Sube Dai, I still am not likely to take it if it was changed to apply more often instead of having the longer duration.

I was just throwing in support for condition re-application being better than longer condition duration.

It would not be a “huge buff” … just a tweaking of numbers.

Sebrent.3625:

Honestly, I’m with Sube Dai, I still am not likely to take it if it was changed to apply more often instead of having the longer duration.

I was just throwing in support for condition re-application being better than longer condition duration.

It would not be a “huge buff” … just a tweaking of numbers.

It would probably have more synergy if predators instinct and predators onslaught were both in skirmishing, so that you have an additional way to proc PO when using a longbow, and you dont have to sacrifice eagle eye or rtw.

Sube Dai.8496:

Sebrent.3625:

Honestly, I’m with Sube Dai, I still am not likely to take it if it was changed to apply more often instead of having the longer duration.

I was just throwing in support for condition re-application being better than longer condition duration.

It would not be a “huge buff” … just a tweaking of numbers.

It would probably have more synergy if predators instinct and predators onslaught were both in skirmishing, so that you have an additional way to proc PO when using a longbow, and you dont have to sacrifice eagle eye or rtw.

I just take Eagle + Hawk with intimidation training if my goal is to have PO… 7.5s cripple, 4s CD, not effective at all….

Durzlla.6295:

I just take Eagle + Hawk with intimidation training if my goal is to have PO… 7.5s cripple, 4s CD, not effective at all….

One of the best ways to troll someone in WvW :-)

I like to name my Eagle “Merica” when I do this … so I get extra giggles

Oh, I’m sorry, but Merica says you’re going nowhere … because Merica!

Sebrent.3625:

Durzlla.6295:

I just take Eagle + Hawk with intimidation training if my goal is to have PO… 7.5s cripple, 4s CD, not effective at all….

One of the best ways to troll someone in WvW :-)

I like to name my Eagle “Merica” when I do this … so I get extra giggles

Oh, I’m sorry, but Merica says you’re going nowhere … because Merica!

My hawk is named Valor (League of Legends reference), and my eagles name is screech with enough e’s to fill up all 19 letters lol

Sube Dai.8496:

It would probably have more synergy if predators instinct and predators onslaught were both in skirmishing, so that you have an additional way to proc PO when using a longbow, and you dont have to sacrifice eagle eye or rtw.

That would be amazing if they were like that.

Intimidation Training is pretty awesome with birds, no doubt, but in that case Malicious Training is a better choice anyway.