Guild Wars 2

When you look at other classes damage modifier for 10% bonus damage, they’re usually put at minor trait or adapt/master major trait. When it comes to grandmaster trait, they usually do more than just 10% damage boost. They either increases the modifier to 15~20% (under the new update info shown), or have some secondary effect

Predator’s Onslaught is actually harder than many of the minor traits damage modifier requirement on the other classes. (vulnerable, bleeding, poison or ALL conditions).
As a grandmaster trait, and the hardest requirement for the damage bonus, Predator’s Onslaught really need to do way more than just 10% flat damage boost.

I’d say it should do 10% more damage on foes w/o any movement impairment, 15% for foes suffering from chill or cripple, and 20% more damage to foes that’re immobolize.
Ofc these damage bonus are mutually exclusive and do not stack with each other. It’d only pick the highest value depending on which condition the target has.

Thought or comment about the suggested change?

I think it’s good as is, more damage would make it OP imo. It is already 10% to both us and pet.

If anything, it should help apply the conditions that trigger it, or extend those durations.

Heimskarl Ashfiend.9582:

I think it’s good as is, more damage would make it OP imo. It is already 10% to both us and pet.

If anything, it should help apply the conditions that trigger it, or extend those durations.

Go observe other classes new traits… They’re all 15~20% damage bonuses. The 10% ones are mostly on minor traits that they don’t even need to pick. Many of them are fill in adapt trait also. The requirement are all easier than this so-called grandmaster trait. (burning bleed poison vulnerable or ALL conditions)

Also, consider pet hits like 800~1500 at best, 10% bonus damage on pet is like 80~150 only. Many pets hit slower than 1 sec/1hit, so the dps increase is even less than 80~150.

http://dulfy.net/2015/04/25/gw2-core-specializations/

Check all the other classes first before you say Predator Onslaught is fine.

Somewhere there is someone counting the adjustment of the pet as enough to count as 15-20, it will probably be just like signet something that seem glaring obvious about 2 years and then they might think about fixing it.

Ranger has several other modifiers though, and these do stack.

The 6/5/3 build already gives rangers 45% bonus, and there is the potential for that to be even higher in HoT.

Sube Dai.8496:

Ranger has several other modifiers though, and these do stack.

The 6/5/3 build already gives rangers 45% bonus, and there is the potential for that to be even higher in HoT.

Other damage modifier are irrelevant because we all make choices. Also go check Warrior, Mesmer, Guardian, and Thief’s new traits before you say 45% is alot. (Not to mention you need FLANKIG, 90% HP above, FULL Endurance, and enemies suffering from movement impairment to achieve that damage)

When you look at Predator Onslaught, it does not justify to be in the grand-master trait. If they stay as it is, it should be moved into a minor trait instead.

Maybe it’s because people in ranger’s forum are so easily satisfied, that Anet are mostly reluctant/ don’t care about fixing ranger’s issue, as compare to other classes’ forum, people demand way more and QQ way more.

I wouldn’t say that the ranger community is easily satisfied more likely (I can say this is the case for myself) we set our expectation low as that is what we’ve experienced from Anet basically since the beta tests.

I say it doesn’t need it because we already have a lot of other modifiers, as mentioned. They need to balance around the fact that you might take all the others possible and make a crazy build. Striders Defense got 10% on it afterall and sword has the most synergy with PO. Our pet getting 10% damage is nothing to sneeze at, take a look at the damage a fury affected 25 might Lightning Breath does, 10% of that is quite significant. That’s what they need to balance it around.

Like I said before, if anything PO should increase those movement impending conditions by 33% so to be a counter to Dogged March, Leg Mods, Geomancers Freedom etc.

Heimskarl Ashfiend.9582:

I say it doesn’t need it because we already have a lot of other modifiers, as mentioned. They need to balance around the fact that you might take all the others possible and make a crazy build. Striders Defense got 10% on it afterall and sword has the most synergy with PO. Our pet getting 10% damage is nothing to sneeze at, take a look at the damage a fury affected 25 might Lightning Breath does, 10% of that is quite significant. That’s what they need to balance it around.

Like I said before, if anything PO should increase those movement impending conditions by 33% so to be a counter to Dogged March, Leg Mods, Geomancers Freedom etc.

Surprise surprise. Other classes can do exactly the same by choosing their respective maximum dps set. And not everyone will pick the exact same traits and same dps modifier.

I’d say Predetor Onslaught should be treated independently. Either make it a minor trait in Marksmanship or buff the effect to my proposed change. It’s not like you can easily maintain constant immobilize on someone. If someone allows you to do so, they’re basically dead meat anyway.

Heimskarl Ashfiend.9582:

Like I said before, if anything PO should increase those movement impending conditions by 33% so to be a counter to Dogged March, Leg Mods, Geomancers Freedom etc.

This. Especially since condi duration on traits is MIA.

Toxsa.2701:

Sube Dai.8496:

Ranger has several other modifiers though, and these do stack.

The 6/5/3 build already gives rangers 45% bonus, and there is the potential for that to be even higher in HoT.

Other damage modifier are irrelevant because we all make choices. Also go check Warrior, Mesmer, Guardian, and Thief’s new traits before you say 45% is alot. (Not to mention you need FLANKIG, 90% HP above, FULL Endurance, and enemies suffering from movement impairment to achieve that damage)

When you look at Predator Onslaught, it does not justify to be in the grand-master trait. If they stay as it is, it should be moved into a minor trait instead.

Maybe it’s because people in ranger’s forum are so easily satisfied, that Anet are mostly reluctant/ don’t care about fixing ranger’s issue, as compare to other classes’ forum, people demand way more and QQ way more.

2+ years of getting the short end of most every stick will do that to ya…

Predator’s Onslaught is a useless GM for pvp.

1. it’s too situational. people have a lot of cleanses and most of the time they wont have those condis on them

2. many pets don’t do significant damage, while others will always struggle to connect with the target; therefore, boosting the pet’s damage…it’s unreliable

3. we’re always much better off grabbing Remorseless, or LTW if using LB; PO will never get picked

this GM needs buffing to at least +15% damage of pet and ranger. this would make it “not bad”, but for it to compete with LTW and Remorseless, the bonus really need to be doubled to +20% for both pet and ranger. and my argument for that is: 1) soft CC isn’t gonna stay on the target for more than a second or two, and 2) the pet doesn’t make contact with the target very well.

+15-20% damage would make the GM competitive and could make MH axe and SB very formidable.

And it would make the Sword too powerful. That’s the reason its not buffed. The sword cripples. PO is not made for sPvP either. That’s why they put 10% dmg onto Striders Defense with Sword.

Heimskarl Ashfiend.9582:

And it would make the Sword too powerful. That’s the reason its not buffed. The sword cripples. PO is not made for sPvP either. That’s why they put 10% dmg onto Striders Defense with Sword.

Sword is never too powerful lol. It never outdamage thief or ele in dungeon. It doesn’t grant yourself might, so “single-handedly” wouldn’t out-dmg warrior either. (In case you can’t read, single-hanedly means you’re in a solo situation) Plus against a crippled foe it’s only 15% boost not 20%.

I seriously can’t understand where your OP theory comes from. It’s never op to begin with. Very very few ppl pick this trait in PVP either because it’s the worst 10% modifier out there despite it’s a Grand-master.

You talk as if sword is out there dominating the whole PVE and PVP scene lol… Ranger currently choose Predator Onslaught simply because “there’s no other choice” if you play anything that’s not a LB. Our current traitline is that bad.

Lets just clarify that damage modifiers are PvE skills. Everybody got that? Good.

OP – it really doesn’t matter. Just because Beserker’s Power does 15% damage doesn’t mean that Warrior does more damage than Ranger…

Its the overall build/traits/skills/rotations that determine the total DPS.

Rangers can already trait/build for a high overall % of damage modifiers, which is why PO is not higher than it currently is.

OP seems to think that rangers are inferior to other classes because of this one trait. That is not the case.

Sube Dai.8496:

Lets just clarify that damage modifiers are PvE skills. Everybody got that? Good.

OP – it really doesn’t matter. Just because Beserker’s Power does 15% damage doesn’t mean that Warrior does more damage than Ranger…

Its the overall build/traits/skills/rotations that determine the total DPS.

Rangers can already trait/build for a high overall % of damage modifiers, which is why PO is not higher than it currently is.

OP seems to think that rangers are inferior to other classes because of this one trait. That is not the case.

When I talked about single-handedly, it means single-handed without any support. Warrior can easily achieve 25 stacks of might by himself for 90% of the fight. When you fight solo with sword, you would not out dps Warrior unless you can magically keep up 25 stacks of mights on your own without give-up all the damage related traits.

Stop using the dps order posted by that Guild in a solo situation. That order is assuming you get EVERYTHING from EXTERNAL SOURCES. (empower allies, banners, 25 stacks of might, permanent fury, etc) which many of the sources are not from ranger at all.

Well no one even tries to calculate individual DPS because of all the variables.

http://www.dtguilds.com/forum/m/6563292/viewthread/13987449-dps-estimates-for-each-professions-in-30s-battles

Just because warriors can stack might better, does not necessarily mean that they can do more DPS.

And is that against a single target or 3? Or 5? 5 in cleave ranger or AOE? Etc…

Sube Dai.8496:

Well no one even tries to calculate individual DPS because of all the variables.

http://www.dtguilds.com/forum/m/6563292/viewthread/13987449-dps-estimates-for-each-professions-in-30s-battles

Just because warriors can stack might better, does not necessarily mean that they can do more DPS.

And is that against a single target or 3? Or 5? 5 in cleave ranger or AOE? Etc…

Actually it’s not hard to test at all lol.

Just grab all the dps traits from Warrior using GS, go to indestructable golem and time it until the hp of the golem hits 0.

Do the same to ranger, now using sword.

Then see who’s faster.
Woo hoo, problem solved.

If you’re not going to do it, I’ll test it for you lol.

ps: You’re kinda totally off topic right now just so you know.

ps: Before you ask, both weapons cleave on 3 targets.

Quick question. How much of a factor is (in your opinion) that the trait effects both the ranger and the pet?

I am of the school of thought that if they want the ranger to be the pet class then they need to work more on the 2 as 1 aspects, and that they should not count effects affecting the pet again the balance potential of traits.

Bran.7425:

Quick question. How much of a factor is (in your opinion) that the trait effects both the ranger and the pet?

I am of the school of thought that if they want the ranger to be the pet class then they need to work more on the 2 as 1 aspects, and that they should not count effects affecting the pet again the balance potential of traits.

Pet dps enhancement can keep at 5% as it is right now.

It’s like 40 dps increase and people make it sound like it’s a big deal. (40 dps ASSUMING YOUR PET IS ACTIVELY HITTING A TARGET)

Hmm, after looking at all the trait notes again I think some of the issue here is that Anet is being inconsistent with what level of effect is appropriate with a trait tier. And as much as they probably don’t like profession to be compared they themselves did that when they started homogenizing similar traits in the past.

Heimskarl Ashfiend.9582:

And it would make the Sword too powerful. That’s the reason its not buffed. The sword cripples. PO is not made for sPvP either. That’s why they put 10% dmg onto Striders Defense with Sword.

using sword as the main source of damage is usually suicide. so I think it’d be fine.

remember that part of the trait applying to pet is really negligible. not sure if devs realize this but pets cant reliably apply dps. I mean, they better realize it by now.

Better options for sPvP, this is not made for that. You don’t really want to trait for +X% dmg there anyway, much more utility in other traits. This is really just for DPSing bosses.

I really thought they’d keep the 5% from pet on it given how quickly they die… not like you’re going to have that 5% all that long anyway.

They don’t die if you use appropriate pets for the situation. You may say that using a drake over a cat is a DPS loss, but when my drake stays alive for the whole dungeon and your cat is dead majority of the time… well. This, coupled with the fact that most bosses now last about 1 minute means you can use River/Marsh drakes that do very good dmg with F2 and swap as soon as the health gets low (you should be waiting for it.) and they won’t die at all. Fortifying Bond transfers defensive boons too, since I always play with a hammer guard in my regular group, the pet has prot and aegis all the time too.

I guess you run in super-casual PHIW let’s take 3 hours to do COF p1 groups. I don’t. I play in get through a dungeon I’ve done 1000x already efficiently groups. Let’s not waste time killing mobs that drop crap loot groups. Groups that enjoy getting better and better thus clearing the content faster and faster… So, taking a ranged pet is not an option. And drake is only good for blasting fields… which sometimes I have to do if the group composition isn’t right for the encounter. Other wise it’s cats.

Mostly, CoF1 would take my regular group say 12 mins or so, we are not worried about speed runs, its more fun for us to be relaxed.

Are you suggesting that your dead cat will out damage a live drake? I don’t get it, if the pets die so fast, why use a cat?

I use cats for CoF1 at bosses, then drakes for the rest. There is nowhere in CoF1 you would want to use a ranged pet.

I kinda like it as it is, BUT, it’d be interesting to up the damage modifier when the foe is Dazed/Stunned or simply Stunned, something like

You and your pet deal 10% more damage to foes that are crippled, chilled, immobilized
You and your pet deal an additionnal 10% damage if the foes are stunned or dazed

So if crippled/chilled/immob’d AND stunned/dazed, its 20% dmg boost from both you and pet. Excellent synergy with Greatsword Hilt Bash (AND synergy with the Moment of Clarity Trait)

Heimskarl Ashfiend.9582:

Are you suggesting that your dead cat will out damage a live drake? I don’t get it, if the pets die so fast, why use a cat? .

I’m not suggesting anything. But, I won’t bother explaining WHY one would use the highest DPS pet because it seems like it would fall on obviously biased deaf ears. And it’s cool you play coy and pretend not to get it because you play in super-casual PHIW groups, which is fine. More power to you.

You wouldn’t take the highest DPS pet because…

TheFantasticGman.9451:

I really thought they’d keep the 5% from pet on it given how quickly they die… not like you’re going to have that 5% all that long anyway.

If it’s dead, it does no damage. Therefore, taking a pet that is more durable will allow it to fight on, rather than be killed.

Mathematically, Predator’s Onslaught is currently weak for the Grandmaster Trait.

But I do think that the damage should stay as it is. Someone mentioned increased duration on cripple and chill effects by 30% (33%). That would be a perfect solution to boost this trait to match the Grandmaster.

10% is not really that much, and is Condition restricted. It still has a potential to be up 100% time when using sword, but that’s not really the point.

I think it could use a 10% damage buff.

From the devs perspective, it’s probably a PvE intended trait, so it’s a permanent 10% damage boost, and rangers get several of those; in PvE, requirements are always met.

However an additional 10% increase in personal PvE damage is far from unbalancing for ranger. In competitive, where the trait is actually interesting, it’s weak. We are the undeniable kings and queens of soft CC, but it’s still very build dependent for a buff that is comparable to minor traits.

It’s in a decent place for lack of PvE competition, but it could be a decent place regardless of play area.