Guild Wars 2

1. - Pet fighting stationary heavy golem with 0/0/0/0/0
2. - Pet fighting moving heavy golem with 0/0/0/0/0
3. - Pet fighting moving heavy golem with 0/0/0/0/30
4. - Pet fighting moving heavy golem with 0/0/0/0/30 with Speed Training (reduce pet skill recharge time by 10%)
5. - Same as #4 but 0/10/0/0/30 with Agility Training

https://docs.google.com/file/d/0BxMRbtXpW9UNaHJWb0hKN1c0WHM/

Each test except two were only ran once because it takes so much time! Some tests I definitely plan to re-run (seriously? Cat takes the same time to kill the golem with 0 in BM as it does with 30 in BM? I call bull!) As I expected, Speed Training can actually lower the pet’s DPS on a moving target because some of their skills just suck at hitting.

Spiders are just rocking it, and canines seem actually better than the hard hitting but stationary kitty cats. Moas and bear suck, but what they never were supposed to be hard hitters. Drakes have become pretty “meh” as their tail swipe misses far too often (notice the HUGE difference between #1 and #2 on the drake!!)

On a stationary target, pets are pretty equal. On a moving target… they’re leagues apart.

I want to run more tests, and get better results by collecting more data and doing more trial runs, but since there are SO many pets and SO many combinations, I might not be able to re-run every one (and I’ll be basically gone all next week). Any fan favorites that stick out that would prefer the TLC? I’m guessing nobody really cares about the DPS on moas or bears, for example.

Nice document and thanks for taking all the time to compile and gather this data!

I am assuming this test was done with all pets on “auto attack,” without using any F2 abilities? I realize some may slow the DPS down, but there are some that in my opinion may be worth factoring in.
Example with the bears, the Arctodus (spelling?) has an extra attack on F2 which may make them the highest DPS bear.
The cats and birds also vary some, I think that with those active skills considered the results may be a bit more revealing.
This does confirm some of my “gut” feelings about pet a vs pet b (especially canines and felines).
Thanks again and keep up the good work sir!

Drake seems awfully bad on TTK in this … which Drake was that?
It wasn’t the Reef one was it?

ilr.9675:

Drake seems awfully bad on TTK in this … which Drake was that?
It wasn’t the Reef one was it?

Well, you can’t just look at the bars you should read the data and the cases (he talks about what 1 through 5 means in the post). Once you take into account the drake’s activated abilities, I’m sure you’d see a difference. Any chance we can see those too? In any event, here’s more specifics:

Drakes miss a lot on moving targets. So do cats. Remember, cases 1 through 5 are different tests. The ones were cats and drakes did poorly against moving targets was the ones without agility training.

Another example of this is spiders. Notice how agility training had zero impact on the spider’s ability to hit the running golem. See the feline? It’s best against stationary targets.

Thanks for posting this, very nice information.

Quick question, why did the bird’s time go up with speed training (test case 4)? Seems odd.

I knew there was a reason why I’ve always run dual canines haha

What I find most interesting is that pre-patch, canines and drake had a higher DPS than any other pet. That position now belongs to the cats. Also, this finally answers whether the traiting pets actually makes a difference. I guess traits don’t effect cats and speeding up the bear makes it unable to hit the broad-side of a barn.

Nice thread! Thanks for gathering all that info. Minor request: can you update the pdf to show which test the corresponding number is? That would make the document more readable without alt-tabbing to look at this thread.

Some observations:

1. Putting points in BM significantly improves all pet’s kill time. (Except for cats. wut?)
2. Felines are still the best DPS pet.
3. Moa, Pig, Spider and Drake have relatively close DPS on stationary targets.
4. Why does the bear with agility training increase his kill time? o_O

I hope ANet looks at this info and improves all of the pet’s ability to hit moving targets that don’t dodge out of the way. I’m ok with lowered pet DPS if they can consistently hit mobile targets without swiftness or cripple/slow them to shake them off.

jubskie.3152:

Nice thread! Thanks for gathering all that info. Minor request: can you update the pdf to show which test the corresponding number is? That would make the document more readable without alt-tabbing to look at this thread.

Some observations:

1. Putting points in BM significantly improves all pet’s kill time. (Except for cats. wut?)
2. Felines are still the best DPS pet.
3. Moa, Pig, Spider and Drake have relatively close DPS on stationary targets.
4. Why does the bear with agility training increase his kill time? o_O

I hope ANet looks at this info and improves all of the pet’s ability to hit moving targets that don’t dodge out of the way. I’m ok with lowered pet DPS if they can consistently hit mobile targets without swiftness or cripple/slow them to shake them off.

BUT, Dogs with speed training have the fastest kill time on moving targets with Speed Training, and are only outkilled by felines (without Speed Training lol) by 2s, and Dogs have better survival and control options.

I just find that insane, sorry lol.

jcbroe.4329:

jubskie.3152:

Nice thread! Thanks for gathering all that info. Minor request: can you update the pdf to show which test the corresponding number is? That would make the document more readable without alt-tabbing to look at this thread.

Some observations:

1. Putting points in BM significantly improves all pet’s kill time. (Except for cats. wut?)
2. Felines are still the best DPS pet.
3. Moa, Pig, Spider and Drake have relatively close DPS on stationary targets.
4. Why does the bear with agility training increase his kill time? o_O

I hope ANet looks at this info and improves all of the pet’s ability to hit moving targets that don’t dodge out of the way. I’m ok with lowered pet DPS if they can consistently hit mobile targets without swiftness or cripple/slow them to shake them off.

BUT, Dogs with speed training have the fastest kill time on moving targets with Speed Training, and are only outkilled by felines (without Speed Training lol) by 2s, and Dogs have better survival and control options.

I just find that insane, sorry lol.

It is. They’re the only pets with built-in cripple. The knockdown also helps immensely as it gives them free hits and almost always guarantees the cripple will hit.

You could argue that pigs have a 3 second arc-AoE knockdown, but it’s charge up is slow, and it’s really easy to just sidestep it as it isn’t homing.

jubskie.3152:

jcbroe.4329:

jubskie.3152:

Nice thread! Thanks for gathering all that info. Minor request: can you update the pdf to show which test the corresponding number is? That would make the document more readable without alt-tabbing to look at this thread.

Some observations:

1. Putting points in BM significantly improves all pet’s kill time. (Except for cats. wut?)
2. Felines are still the best DPS pet.
3. Moa, Pig, Spider and Drake have relatively close DPS on stationary targets.
4. Why does the bear with agility training increase his kill time? o_O

I hope ANet looks at this info and improves all of the pet’s ability to hit moving targets that don’t dodge out of the way. I’m ok with lowered pet DPS if they can consistently hit mobile targets without swiftness or cripple/slow them to shake them off.

BUT, Dogs with speed training have the fastest kill time on moving targets with Speed Training, and are only outkilled by felines (without Speed Training lol) by 2s, and Dogs have better survival and control options.

I just find that insane, sorry lol.

It is. They’re the only pets with built-in cripple. The knockdown also helps immensely as it gives them free hits and almost always guarantees the cripple will hit.

You could argue that pigs have a 3 second arc-AoE knockdown, but it’s charge up is slow, and it’s really easy to just sidestep it as it isn’t homing.

Pigs are in need of a total rework though, unfortunately :/

You know what I really want to see? The useless Master Trait for dogs and spiders to be switched from cripple to torment lol. It would be so strong.

Draedark.8193:

I am assuming this test was done with all pets on “auto attack,” without using any F2 abilities? I realize some may slow the DPS down, but there are some that in my opinion may be worth factoring in.

Correct, no F2’s were involved. I thought about it, and maybe in the future I’ll do it, but there are just so many different combinations that I couldn’t test everything that I wanted to test.

Draedark.8193:

Thanks again and keep up the good work sir!

*Ma’am, and you’re welcome!

Chopps.5047:

Quick question, why did the bird’s time go up with speed training (test case 4)? Seems odd.

I’ll be sure to get more data on this to make sure that it wasn’t a fluke, because it is pretty strange and unexpected. From what I saw, the birds without agility training would wind up for their shot, and by the time they landed it, the golem had moved out and back into place. With the agility training though, the bird started its wind up much closer to the golem, and the golem just waddled out of the way. So the long animation of the bird was beneficial to the enemy trying to avoid it (assuming the enemy isn’t running off in one direction and is instead teetering back and forth).

jubskie.3152:

Nice thread! Thanks for gathering all that info. Minor request: can you update the pdf to show which test the corresponding number is? That would make the document more readable without alt-tabbing to look at this thread.

Sure! Next revision I’ll make this addition.

jubskie.3152:

Some observations:

1. Putting points in BM significantly improves all pet’s kill time. (Except for cats. wut?)
2. Felines are still the best DPS pet.
3. Moa, Pig, Spider and Drake have relatively close DPS on stationary targets.
4. Why does the bear with agility training increase his kill time? o_O

I’m definitely going to do more pets regarding the BM points and the cat’s kill time. That just doesn’t seem right. As for the bear, he might have had a poor run… I’m not sure. He seemed to hit the target every time he wanted to. I might look into that more, but it’s a lower priority.

jubskie.3152:

It is. They’re the only pets with built-in cripple. The knockdown also helps immensely as it gives them free hits and almost always guarantees the cripple will hit.

You could argue that pigs have a 3 second arc-AoE knockdown, but it’s charge up is slow, and it’s really easy to just sidestep it as it isn’t homing.

Yep, the dogs would knock down the golem, cripple them, and get a bunch of hits in before the golem recovered. The pigs… would hardly get their KD in unless I positioned them just right when I started the test (possibly scewing the results on the pig).

I have a request for the OP, though I’m sure of the answer. But any chance in the future you’ll do signet of the hunt tests along side agility training?

It would be very interesting to see how important/unimportant that 5% speed difference is.

Don’t all birds have Quickening Screech, which would override any Agility Training or lack thereof?

Thanks. This saved me alot of time testing.

With the birds though, taking the speed training trait is a bad choice imo. This means they’re going to be casting quikening screech every eighteen seconds, when really you want them to just be aa’ing and ready for F2 burst

jcbroe.4329:

I have a request for the OP, though I’m sure of the answer. But any chance in the future you’ll do signet of the hunt tests along side agility training?

It would be very interesting to see how important/unimportant that 5% speed difference is.

Drake…35,5/33,3
Wolf…..29,3/27,2
Jaguar…26,7/21,9
Raven…30,8/31,7

This test I did before the patch but it’s with signet of the hunt and 30 in bm first then with 30 bm plus swiftness/fury on the second, the diffrence should be about the same now, that is to say very small, perhaps speed would be worth a little bit more after the patch though seeing most pets would take slightly longer to kill the golem.

Manekk.6981:

jcbroe.4329:

I have a request for the OP, though I’m sure of the answer. But any chance in the future you’ll do signet of the hunt tests along side agility training?

It would be very interesting to see how important/unimportant that 5% speed difference is.

Drake…35,5/33,3
Wolf…..29,3/27,2
Jaguar…26,7/21,9
Raven…30,8/31,7

This test I did before the patch but it’s with signet of the hunt and 30 in bm first then with 30 bm plus swiftness/fury on the second, the diffrence should be about the same now, that is to say very small, perhaps speed would be worth a little bit more after the patch though seeing most pets would take slightly longer to kill the golem.

Ahh, okay, that makes alot of sense. I was guestimating a difference of about 2-4s. I’ve been debating running something other than my typical 0/0/30/10/30 or 0/0/30/20/20 but I still don’t see where else I would put the points when running with a shamans build (apothecary/settlers mix in WvW). I don’t have enough crit to take advantage of the trait for stacking might on the pet :/

SafiMoyo.5130:

Speed Training can actually lower the pet’s DPS on a moving target because some of their skills just suck at hitting.

Pets are in such a sorry state. What’s the best way to increase pet DPS? Ignore half the pet traits, obviously.

Anyway, fantastic post. Should be stickied.

The reason that cats have a bad TTK on a golem in the mists is due to the fact that they’re using their PvE AI, and attempting to get behind the target as well akittenting something not affected by combat. In a PvP situation, or when the pet gets aggro, it will just go up and maul their face.

For Con. Dmg Rangers is Lynx with F2 Ability the best Pet in my view. ( For WvW )

Conclusion: Pet DPS is kittening horrible… 20 seconds to kill a heavy golem when it’s not moving, with the absolute best DPS pet… Christ.

jcbroe.4329:

Manekk.6981:

jcbroe.4329:

I have a request for the OP, though I’m sure of the answer. But any chance in the future you’ll do signet of the hunt tests along side agility training?

It would be very interesting to see how important/unimportant that 5% speed difference is.

Drake…35,5/33,3
Wolf…..29,3/27,2
Jaguar…26,7/21,9
Raven…30,8/31,7

This test I did before the patch but it’s with signet of the hunt and 30 in bm first then with 30 bm plus swiftness/fury on the second, the diffrence should be about the same now, that is to say very small, perhaps speed would be worth a little bit more after the patch though seeing most pets would take slightly longer to kill the golem.

Ahh, okay, that makes alot of sense. I was guestimating a difference of about 2-4s. I’ve been debating running something other than my typical 0/0/30/10/30 or 0/0/30/20/20 but I still don’t see where else I would put the points when running with a shamans build (apothecary/settlers mix in WvW). I don’t have enough crit to take advantage of the trait for stacking might on the pet :/

Rabid armor with celestial trinkets work pretty well together and you’ll get plenty of crits for petmight, been thinking of dusting off my old rabid gear and trying this out with that.

ProxyDamage.9826:

Conclusion: Pet DPS is kittening horrible… 20 seconds to kill a heavy golem when it’s not moving, with the absolute best DPS pet… Christ.

That’s just the pet autoattacking, add some traits they benefit from etc and it goes down alot and you do damage aswell remember.