Primal Cry and Spiritual Reprieve are Weak

Primal Cry and Spiritual Reprieve are Weak

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Posted by: shadowpass.4236

shadowpass.4236

https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Primal_Cry
https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Spiritual_Reprieve
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At the moment, Primal Cry applies 3 bleeds and 9 stacks of vulnerability on a 25 second cooldown. I can’t even say how underwhelming this f3 skill is. If it applied fear and/or applied weakness and/or gave us stability/stunbreak as well, it would be worth the cooldown.

If the effect isn’t changed, reducing the cooldown to maybe 12-15 seconds would be sufficient in my opinion.
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Spiritual Reprieve is a 4k heal and 3s resistance on a 40 second cooldown.

Honestly that is ridiculous. The heal and cooldown are on par with a seemingly underwhelming Eternal Bond, and the 3s resistance is pretty terrible if you take the cooldown into consideration.

To put it into perspective, Superior Runes of the Revenant gives us 2 seconds of resistance when we use a healing skill, on a 10 second cooldown. In other words, every 40 seconds, we’d receive 8 seconds of resistance if we were able to use these runes every time they came off cooldown. This duration would be increased if we utilitized boon sharing.

I was a power ranger before it was cool.
Guild Leader of Favorable Winds [Wind]

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Posted by: psizone.8437

psizone.8437

Primal Cry might be a little weak considering the cooldown but it hits 5 enemies so it’s not the worst. I agree with a cooldown reduction or a few more bleed stacks.

Spiritual Reprieve is definitely not weak, it targets 5 allies and it’s a fairly decent heal considering it isn’t your main healing skill. A Little more resistance would be nice but we’re getting a fair bit of condition removal and evade skills so it may not be a huge deal in a fight.

Brotherhood of Blub [blub]

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Posted by: Dadnir.5038

Dadnir.5038

So Primal cry hit 5 targets 3 time over 1.5 second, apply 3 bleeds and 9 vulnerability and have a cool down of 20-25 seconds… You feel that’s weak?

And spiritual reprieve which is a 4k group heal that also grant 3 second of resistance to every group member and have a 40 second cool down seem also weak for you? Seriously, you even got 25% outgoing healing to boost that that come along… Cumulated it apply 15 seconds of resistance!

No core profession should be balanced around an optional elite specialization.

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Posted by: shadowpass.4236

shadowpass.4236

So Primal cry hit 5 targets 3 time over 1.5 second, apply 3 bleeds and 9 vulnerability and have a cool down of 20-25 seconds… You feel that’s weak?

And spiritual reprieve which is a 4k group heal that also grant 3 second of resistance to every group member and have a 40 second cool down seem also weak for you? Seriously, you even got 25% outgoing healing to boost that that come along… Cumulated it apply 15 seconds of resistance!

3 bleeds is the equivalent of:

  • 3 auto attacks on shortbow
  • 3 procs of Sharpened Edges
  • 3 procs of Sharpening Stone
  • 3/5 of Splitblade
  • 1 Crippling Talon
  • etc. etc.

So yes, 3 bleeds and a little bit of vulnerability is weak for that long of a cooldown. Not to mention it has a cast time of 1 1/4 seconds. If it was instant cast, that might be justified because it could fit into a burst rotation. But right now, it’s meh.
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Where did you get 15 seconds of resistance from? In general, I’m not a fan of long cooldowns. I don’t mind it if they weakened the effect to justify reducing the cooldown, but when you can only use an ability once or twice in a fight, it feels slow imo.

I was a power ranger before it was cool.
Guild Leader of Favorable Winds [Wind]

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Posted by: Sevans.4619

Sevans.4619

I agree that Primal Cry looks weak in its current form. Hoping we see an adjustment to it.

Something to consider on the topic of cooldowns: There’s a chance that taking BM with Soulbeast will grant us the cooldown reduction for all pet and ‘Beast’ abilities, like they get.

Saethe — Favorable Winds [Wind] — Maguuma

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Posted by: shadowpass.4236

shadowpass.4236

I agree that Primal Cry looks weak in its current form. Hoping we see an adjustment to it.

Something to consider on the topic of cooldowns: There’s a chance that taking BM with Soulbeast will grant us the cooldown reduction for all pet and ‘Beast’ abilities, like they get.

I hope Pack Alpha will function that way. At the moment, we have no cooldown reduction traits in SLB.

Unfortunately, that will also mean that we will be “required” to take BM if we want the stats and shorter cooldowns. This reminds me of how Defense and Discipline are pretty much required on warrior if you want to be competitive. Builds will end up as BM + SLB + one extra traitline as a result of this.

I was a power ranger before it was cool.
Guild Leader of Favorable Winds [Wind]

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Posted by: mistsim.2748

mistsim.2748

spiritual reprieve is quite strong. that’s 4k heals without HP, and 3s Resistance is huge in the condi meta. that’s enough time for the condis to get cleansed by your group.

Primal Cry belongs on some dueling condi build.

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Posted by: Wondrouswall.7169

Wondrouswall.7169

Primal Cry does look weak. I guess for starters, 3 bleeds & 3 vulnerability per pulse, as a total of 3 bleeds for a 1.25s cast time is lacking.

It’s going to really suck if it roots us.

PET PRECISION & DPS TESTS -OUTDATED-
Will update once Path of Fire releases.

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Posted by: Dadnir.5038

Dadnir.5038

So Primal cry hit 5 targets 3 time over 1.5 second, apply 3 bleeds and 9 vulnerability and have a cool down of 20-25 seconds… You feel that’s weak?

And spiritual reprieve which is a 4k group heal that also grant 3 second of resistance to every group member and have a 40 second cool down seem also weak for you? Seriously, you even got 25% outgoing healing to boost that that come along… Cumulated it apply 15 seconds of resistance!

3 bleeds is the equivalent of:

  • 3 auto attacks on shortbow
  • 3 procs of Sharpened Edges
  • 3 procs of Sharpening Stone
  • 3/5 of Splitblade
  • 1 Crippling Talon
  • etc. etc.

So yes, 3 bleeds and a little bit of vulnerability is weak for that long of a cooldown. Not to mention it has a cast time of 1 1/4 seconds. If it was instant cast, that might be justified because it could fit into a burst rotation. But right now, it’s meh.
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Where did you get 15 seconds of resistance from? In general, I’m not a fan of long cooldowns. I don’t mind it if they weakened the effect to justify reducing the cooldown, but when you can only use an ability once or twice in a fight, it feels slow imo.

Wait you’re serious?

That’s 3 bleed and 9 vulnerability on 5 target. Each of these target will take the damage and the conditions. And you dare use single target to compare? Each of the power damage can proc those stack of sharpenned edge or sharpening stone. Each of those tic of damages can proc your offensive stances effect. It’s 20 second CD!!!

The potential of the skill is not 3 bleeds but altogether 15 bleed split across 5 targets and 45 vulnerability split across 5 targets with relatively high direct damage on top of
that.

That is seriously strong. Look carefully, it’s not a cast time, it’s a channeled skill that hit 3 time over 1.25 seconds. With the displayed numbers it could even do more damage than some of our weapon’s auto attack.

As for the resistance I’m doing the exact same thing as you with the revenant rune. I’m just adding. The skill heal 5 target for 4k each and grant 3 seconds of resistance for each of those target. It’s like having 5 character using their own 4k heal procing each their own resistance, except that they are ot shackled by the need to use a specific runeset.

The potential of the skill is 20k heal and 15 second of resistance.

Even like that you’ll most likely take a moa as healing pet which will give it’s own 4k aoe heal, without resistance but probably on a 20 second cool down. That can already end up to be a lot of heal when there is already a dedicated healer spec on the ranger.

I’m saying it on a joke note, but more than that and this elite spec could even replace the druid as a healer but with more personnal damage and no fear to lose it’s special mechanism.

No core profession should be balanced around an optional elite specialization.

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Posted by: shadowpass.4236

shadowpass.4236

I meant channel time, not cast time. Either way, it is still interruptable.

By your logic, if Maul does 4000 damage and hits 5 targets, its insanely strong because it does 20,000 damage in one skill!

Rangers can apply around 20 bleeds with a single skill, and 30-40 with a few more skills. I don’t see how 15 bleeds (3 per person) is anything but weak. Condis only start to do damage in high stacks, 3 bleeds alone is nothing.

The vulnerability is okay, but honestly the skill as a whole would benefit a lot from being instant cast 3 bleeds and 9 vulnerability.

I’m telling you, from a PvP standpoint, channeling a skill for a second just to apply 3 bleeds and some vuln isn’t anything special.

I was a power ranger before it was cool.
Guild Leader of Favorable Winds [Wind]

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Posted by: LughLongArm.5460

LughLongArm.5460

@shadowpass In some of your skill breakdowns you ignore the fact that those are AOE skills with nice radius range and not a single target effects like(rev rune, SB bleed etc) or a narrow angle effect with small range cleave(maul). I will agree that among the 5 options, at first glance, “Primal Cry” seems to be the weakest, doesn’t mean it’s weak, the other 4 could be proven OP, we still don’t know.

But let me make the case regarding “Spiritual Reprieve” – This skill got huge radius of 600. The Supportive buff that comes with the kit will buff the heal in 25% so it’s over 5k heal. The 3 sec resistance can be further buffed with the new Soulbeast skills and traits. “Essence of Speed” will buff it for extra 2 sec while on quickness(we have a lot of it), Moa stance will buff it with extra 66%. So, with the right build, over 5k heal and 8sec resistance for 5 targets in 600 raduis, This is a very powerful Supportive skill.

I didn’t even got into the extra potential with other core ranger traits(NM) and gear scaling(could be very high, we will see).

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Posted by: shadowpass.4236

shadowpass.4236

@shadowpass In some of your skill breakdowns you ignore the fact that those are AOE skills with nice radius range and not a single target effects like(rev rune, SB bleed etc) or a narrow angle effect with small range cleave(maul). I will agree that among the 5 options, at first glance, “Primal Cry” seems to be the weakest, doesn’t mean it’s weak, the other 4 could be proven OP, we still don’t know.

But let me make the case regarding “Spiritual Reprieve” – This skill got huge radius of 600. The Supportive buff that comes with the kit will buff the heal in 25% so it’s over 5k heal. The 3 sec resistance can be further buffed with the new Soulbeast skills and traits. “Essence of Speed” will buff it for extra 2 sec while on quickness(we have a lot of it), Moa stance will buff it with extra 66%. So, with the right build, over 5k heal and 8sec resistance for 5 targets in 600 raduis, This is a very powerful Supportive skill.

I didn’t even got into the extra potential with other core ranger traits(NM) and gear scaling(could be very high, we will see).

Hmm. Yeah, I should have said Primal Cry looks weak compared to the other ones rather than just saying its bad. It feels too much like a regular weapon skill or weak utility. It doesn’t feel special like some of the other, more unique, f3 skills.
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Good points about Spiritual Reprieve. I no longer think it is weak.

I was a power ranger before it was cool.
Guild Leader of Favorable Winds [Wind]

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Posted by: OGDeadHead.8326

OGDeadHead.8326

Combine Spiritual Reprieve with Invigorating Bond and we’re talking about “We Heal As One” numbers, but can heal up to 5 ppl in aoe. Looking good!

Win10 pro | Xeon 5650 @ 4 GHz | R9 280x toxic | 24 Gig Ram | Process Lasso user

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Posted by: Heimskarl Ashfiend.9582

Heimskarl Ashfiend.9582

Combine Spiritual Reprieve with Invigorating Bond and we’re talking about “We Heal As One” numbers, but can heal up to 5 ppl in aoe. Looking good!

That’s pretty great, I wonder if Spiritual Reprieve counts as a heal skill for purposes of runes too. Lyssa, Defender, Brawler, Water, Revenant, Altruism, Vampirism, Herald, Adventurer, Balthazar etc, all have interesting interactions if it is classed as one.

I keep looking at the Lyssa runes and just total condi build shutdown… Lyssa Runes, LR/QZ/SoR/Entangle, WK, StF, Second Skin with Bear/Dolyak Stance and Spiritual Reprieve/Unflinching Fortitude. It’s essentially immune to conditions. Looking forward to trying that out in WvW.

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Posted by: borya.2964

borya.2964

I keep looking at the Lyssa runes and just total condi build shutdown… Lyssa Runes, LR/QZ/SoR/Entangle, WK, StF, Second Skin with Bear/Dolyak Stance and Spiritual Reprieve/Unflinching Fortitude. It’s essentially immune to conditions. Looking forward to trying that out in WvW.

I liked & used Lyssa runes for a long time before HOT, but now i am stucked with Durability and Leadership in my two main wvw roaming builds. What’s your movement speed in & outside of combat with your build ? Where it comes from, Warhorn ?

Coffin Rehearsal X – Bunker Roaming Ranger
Tchuu Tchuu Im A Train [TCHU] – Gandara
https://www.youtube.com/channel/UChUmRHtHLgPckvtrPImxK3A

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Posted by: Heimskarl Ashfiend.9582

Heimskarl Ashfiend.9582

I keep looking at the Lyssa runes and just total condi build shutdown… Lyssa Runes, LR/QZ/SoR/Entangle, WK, StF, Second Skin with Bear/Dolyak Stance and Spiritual Reprieve/Unflinching Fortitude. It’s essentially immune to conditions. Looking forward to trying that out in WvW.

I liked & used Lyssa runes for a long time before HOT, but now i am stucked with Durability and Leadership in my two main wvw roaming builds. What’s your movement speed in & outside of combat with your build ? Where it comes from, Warhorn ?

OOC likely from WH swapping (geeze I wish we had weapon sets like GW1) and from Swoop on the Owl, Lyssa converts Cripple and Immob to Swiftness, Super Speed from QZ.