Guild Wars 2

I’ll preface this thread by saying that I’m not very well versed in Ranger builds or gameplay outside what you may encounter in WvW or sPvP. Even then, I only understand how I counter a ranger, and not its in-depth class mechanics. So, when faced with the question “what build should I run,” I was understandably unprepared.

Our guild currently runs the 2 Guard/2 War/1 Mes or 1 Guard/3 War/1 Mes meta in almost everything PvE-related. However, we do have a few members who main rangers and are interested in speed clearing content. I’m trying to find out what kind of build they should be working towards to fit into our team’s “paradigm.”

The guardians are a 0/0/30/30/10 AH build with consecrations/spirit weapon duration for reflect utility in fractals and misc dungeons. The warriors run variations on Axe/Axe + Greatsword or Axe/Mace with 10 invested into Arms for Vulnerability. Armor-wise, they run either a knight/berserker mix or full berserker. The mesmer is a full glass cannon with 20 into Inspiration for focus traits and is a phantasm build otherwise. Everyone runs Omnomberry Pies/Ghosts and everyone uses Skale Venom. As such, we have a permanent 20+ stacks of vuln going.

The ranger build would ideally replace one of the warrior slots, so it needs to have high DPS with as minimal a cost to survivability as possible. It’s not necessary for the ranger to be specced for any specific utility role, as that is covered adequately by consumables, the guardian(s), and the mesmer. That said, I’m not closed to anything extra that they can bring to the table, only that it’s pointless to focus on utility when it’s not necessary. To this end, I was originally spitballing an LB/sword+torch ranger high in crit/power to synergize both with Time Warp and consumable abuse. However, I also know that Trap Rangers seem to be the current FotM, and am wondering if perhaps a more condition-oriented build would be more beneficial.

Like I said, I’m not well-versed at all in Rangers, so I could be completely off-base with my suggestions here. Any and all correction/help would be immensely appreciated

If you want to specialize in shortbow, I’d recommend condition damage over pure power as three of the shortbow attacks apply damaging conditions.

SynfulChaot.3169:

If you want to specialize in shortbow, I’d recommend condition damage over pure power as three of the shortbow attacks apply damaging conditions.

It’s not a matter of want, but what is optimal. I personally don’t like condition-based builds because I don’t find that anything dies slow enough to warrant them, but if that’s what the optimal ranger spec is to fit into the team build, then so be it. I also meant sword/torch, torch being for potential blast finisher abuse, not shortbow. That’s my bad.

EDIT:

I’ve been tinkering around and, correct me if I’m wrong, would the longbow be sub-optimal DPS to the shortbow when not at max range? If so, would a SB/LB or SB/(GS or Sword + Warhorn) build not be best? I’m thinking 30/30/x/x/x, potentially 5/0/5 or 10/0/0. The utility slots would probably be some combination of Spirits and Survival skills, depending on the encounter. Not sure about which pets, though. Probably have a better look at them tomorrow when it isn’t 2 AM.

Boonprot.6274:

SynfulChaot.3169:

If you want to specialize in shortbow, I’d recommend condition damage over pure power as three of the shortbow attacks apply damaging conditions.

It’s not a matter of want, but what is optimal. I personally don’t like condition-based builds because I don’t find that anything dies slow enough to warrant them, but if that’s what the optimal ranger spec is to fit into the team build, then so be it. I also meant sword/torch, torch being for potential blast finisher abuse, not shortbow. That’s my bad.

EDIT:

I’ve been tinkering around and, correct me if I’m wrong, would the longbow be sub-optimal DPS to the shortbow when not at max range? If so, would a SB/LB or SB/(GS or Sword + Warhorn) build not be best? I’m thinking 30/30/x/x/x, potentially 5/0/5 or 10/0/0. The utility slots would probably be some combination of Spirits and Survival skills, depending on the encounter. Not sure about which pets, though. Probably have a better look at them tomorrow when it isn’t 2 AM.

If you are speaking of SB, condition is the way to go. It is what I run. If you are speaking of torch, I do not know. I have never personally found much use for the torch on my ranger.

The SB is actually greater damage than the LB, even at max range. Most that run the LB do it for the CC and utility of the weapon, not for the damage.

And, for all rangers, I recommend running at least 5 in Wilderness Survival for the +50% endurance regen.

Rangers highest dps weapon is sword followed by SB. A power based build will give you more dps on SB than condition. SB does more damage even without flanking (bleeding) than LB. Your option for sword is to pair it with a torch even in a power build.

Dont ignore pets, they do insane dps. Ive been running some #s and i believe rangers have the ability to do more dps than wars provided the pet doesnt die and has 25 master bond stacks, but thats very hard to do.

Jaguar is your ST dps pet. Drakes is your AoE dps Pet since Auto Attack cleaves.

If you run a hammer guardian (i hope you do since they do 90-100% of the dps GS does) then you can give your pet perma protection with 15 in nature magic.

Boonprot.6274:

It’s not a matter of want, but what is optimal. I personally don’t like condition-based builds because I don’t find that anything dies slow enough to warrant them, but if that’s what the optimal ranger spec is to fit into the team build, then so be it.

I’m not sure why you’re prioritizing optimal over fun. This is a game, not warfare or a business. It’s supposed to be fun.

After playing the game for 3 months, I’ve concluded that Anet has for the most part done a very good job balancing the different ways you can build a character. There is no overall optimal build. There are builds which will do better in specific situations, but different builds will do better than them in different situations. If you have a particular situation you’re always finding yourself in (maybe you always do dungeons with the same 4 people), then you can come up with a build which has optimal synergy with their preferred skills.

But if you’re asking for one build to rule them all, there is none.

I’ve been tinkering around and, correct me if I’m wrong, would the longbow be sub-optimal DPS to the shortbow when not at max range?

Against single targets, longbow always has worse DPS than shortbow without bleed, except if you get barrage off and the target stays in the barrage for the full 7 seconds. Then it pulls slightly ahead of shortbow. But shortbow will eclipse it if it can bleed. Barrage however is still a great AOE skill.

Puandro.3245:

Rangers highest dps weapon is sword followed by SB.

It depends on your build, but in the base state (i.e. 916 power and 0 condition damage), SB with bleed has about 30%-40% higher DPS than 1h sword autoattack. I need to do some calcs with sword’s poison to factor that in, but I doubt it’s enough to make up that gap. Sword is better against multiple targets though.

The reason it depends on your build is that if you add an extra 916 to power it will double sword’s autoattack (and shortbow’s physical damage) while bleed damage will remain the same. And sword will be better. But likewise if you put 916 into condition damage and 0 into power, shortbow will pull even further ahead.

Dont ignore pets, they do insane dps. Ive been running some #s and i believe rangers have the ability to do more dps than wars provided the pet doesnt die and has 25 master bond stacks, but thats very hard to do.

Yeah, I’d be tempted to say a bunker ranger who does most of his damage with his pets is the closest thing to optimal build. But if both pets are dead (fairly common in dungeons), your damage contribution will be about the same as a 4 year old girl’s.

I ran a near-glass cannon LB/SB build before, 30/30/10/0/0 with Berserker-everything except the runes (I used Superior Runes of Divinity to offset some of my squishiness), and I felt like I did decent damage while sometimes being sturdy enough to survive one bad hit should I find myself out of endurance or just careless. A melee weapon in that instance was not very favorable at least for dungeons because, well, some dungeon bosses hit very hard close up, and sometimes you will get hit, but I have read of others having success even in such instances, so ymmv.

I’m currently running a BM bunker build, and though the loss in pure dps is very noticeable, being able to shrug off things that used to be able to one-shot (or nearly one-shot) my previous build kind of balances it out for me. I find myself mostly agreeing with the philosophy that while a non-dps Ranger might not do as much damage as a dps Ranger, a dead Ranger does none, but I can see how that can be perceived as inefficient or even extreme if you’ve played classes (Warriors, for instance) that can hit hard and still tank.

A more balanced approach might be to take a 30/30/10/0/0 or similar build and beef it up with Toughness runes, sigils, accessories, etc. Just realize that you will not hit or tank as hard as a Warrior, but you will have more mobility. As for weapons, I’d probably stick with LB/SB, the LB for control and AoE, and the SB for dps. While a SB probably benefits a lot from a Conditions build, it’s in no way gimped with a dps build, especially if you factor in its natural fire rate and if you trait Piercing Arrows.

Solandri.9640:

It depends on your build, but in the base state (i.e. 916 power and 0 condition damage), SB with bleed has about 30%-40% higher DPS than 1h sword autoattack. I need to do some calcs with sword’s poison to factor that in, but I doubt it’s enough to make up that gap. Sword is better against multiple targets though.

The reason it depends on your build is that if you add an extra 916 to power it will double sword’s autoattack (and shortbow’s physical damage) while bleed damage will remain the same. And sword will be better. But likewise if you put 916 into condition damage and 0 into power, shortbow will pull even further ahead.

This is very false. Sword is a 1.8 second cast time chain with a .6/.6/.7 skill modifier on its chain. SB #1 is a .5 cast time with a .4 Modifier with a 3 second bleed.

Full berserker vs 2,600 armor (Heavy Dummy in the mists) in a 30/30/10/0/0 spec (no specified traits)
Sword #1 = 1,833 DPS
SB #1 (Flanking) + #2 = 1,748 DPS if you can’t flank its 1463

Full Carrion
Sword #1 = 898 DPS
SB #1 (Flanking) + #2 = 1,607 DPS if you can’t flank its 944

TLDR, SB Does more damage with a power build than a condition build, rabid is worse dps than carrion, but at the end its still worse dps than Sword, which we can add torch as an offhand boosting sword even further.

SB is comparable against 1 target IF you flank every attack and land poison volley which means being very close for all 5 hits to land. Sword cleaves AND gives might to your pet which scales very well, and the might on the 3rd hit is per target so a potential 3 might for your pet every 1.8 seconds.

Puandro.3245:

Solandri.9640:

It depends on your build, but in the base state (i.e. 916 power and 0 condition damage), SB with bleed has about 30%-40% higher DPS than 1h sword autoattack. I need to do some calcs with sword’s poison to factor that in, but I doubt it’s enough to make up that gap. Sword is better against multiple targets though.

The reason it depends on your build is that if you add an extra 916 to power it will double sword’s autoattack (and shortbow’s physical damage) while bleed damage will remain the same. And sword will be better. But likewise if you put 916 into condition damage and 0 into power, shortbow will pull even further ahead.

This is very false. Sword is a 1.8 second cast time chain with a .6/.6/.7 skill modifier on its chain. SB #1 is a .5 cast time with a .4 Modifier with a 3 second bleed.

I dunno why you say it’s false. Your numbers (which btw agree with the ones I’ve data collected) say exactly what I said.

1) With the base 916 power 0 condition damage build, SB + bleed > sword

Full berserker vs 2,600 armor (Heavy Dummy in the mists) in a 30/30/10/0/0 spec (no specified traits)
Sword #1 = 1,833 DPS
SB #1 (Flanking) + #2 = 1,748 DPS if you can’t flank its 1463

2) If you go for a full power build, sword > SB + bleed.

Full Carrion
Sword #1 = 898 DPS
SB #1 (Flanking) + #2 = 1,607 DPS if you can’t flank its 944

3) If you go for a full condition damage build, SB + bleed >> sword.

TLDR, SB Does more damage with a power build than a condition build, rabid is worse dps than carrion, but at the end its still worse dps than Sword, which we can add torch as an offhand boosting sword even further

Ah I see. You’re comparing SB’s damage with a condition build vs. sword with a power build. That wasn’t what I was talking about. My apologies if I wasn’t clear.

If someone is going for a condition build, I would presume it’s not solely for SB bleed and poison. I presume traps are thrown in there somewhere. So rather than try to account for every possible build, I just looked at the simplest cases with just these two weapons and compared them. In no way was I trying to compare a power build to a condition build.

SB is comparable against 1 target IF you flank every attack and land poison volley which means being very close for all 5 hits to land. Sword cleaves AND gives might to your pet which scales very well, and the might on the 3rd hit is per target so a potential 3 might for your pet every 1.8 seconds.

There are so many of these sword/longbow vs shortbow topics going on, forgive me if I forgot to make clear in this one: I’m only talking about single target. I’ve tried to stress over and over that this is only against a single target. In another thread, I said pretty much any melee weapon (probably even axe) beats out SB if you’ve got multiple targets.

And in the testing I did, sword could only give 2 stacks of might to a pet against a single target. While that’s helpful, i didn’t think it was big enough to mention in this case. To get a nice might stack for your pet, you need to be using sword against multiple targets. Edit: Upon doing the math, it may be 3 stacks of might, and just drops to 2 stacks when I stop attacking to click on the pet.)

Traps actually arent that great in PvE like PvP. 1st you have to take a trait to make them last longer so they can do good dps. Spike trap is actually pretty bad bleed damage. Flame trap rocks but its still just burning which isnt great if you have another source of burning in the group. Poison trap is pointless since you have poison on SB or Sword. Really taking the trap trait for PvE just for Flame Trap isnt very good.
I think SB is a great weapon if you have to range but sword all the way in a good group and both are better with a power build. Knight/Zerk gear is really the best mix atm.
I can give you a build when im home but vs ST i can keep much more than 3 stacks of might vs 1 target on my pet and vs 3 mobs i can keep 22-25 stacks of might on him. Btw this is SOLO and it gets easier in a grp.

Solandri.9640:

I’m not sure why you’re prioritizing optimal over fun. This is a game, not warfare or a business. It’s supposed to be fun.

Who’s to say that we don’t derive fun from pushing our team build to the limits and speed clearing content? I personally find anything sub-optimal abhorrently dull. Heck, when I level a character to 80, I don’t bother playing that character in any content until they’re fully geared. I derive no fun from forcing others to carry me because of a sub-optimal build and gear combination. While I realize this isn’t a popular opinion, it’s no less valid than “I like playing 9/18/12/21/10 because it’s neat.”

Solandri.9640:

After playing the game for 3 months, I’ve concluded that Anet has for the most part done a very good job balancing the different ways you can build a character. There is no overall optimal build. There are builds which will do better in specific situations, but different builds will do better than them in different situations. If you have a particular situation you’re always finding yourself in (maybe you always do dungeons with the same 4 people), then you can come up with a build which has optimal synergy with their preferred skills.

The reason why I included our team build in the OP is because we do run specific builds, no matter who you are in the guild. The ranger build, then, has to obviously fit in with that mentality. I’d also like to comment that there is an exceedingly large difference between passable and optimal. ANet has implemented many passable build combinations, but very few optimal. It’s the nature of any game, really. It allows the “casuals” (I actually detest that term; I classify myself as a casual and yet I enjoy high-level PvE and WvW, the exact opposite to a traditional casual) to putter about with a “fun” build and somewhat contribute to the team.

Solandri.9640:

But if you’re asking for one build to rule them all, there is none.

The current fastest dungeon clearing composition is very warrior heavy with a guardian and mesmer for support. Therefore, if one were seeking to speed clear content the “one build to rule them all” would be a build which synergizes the best with this team. Therefore, this build does exist.

Just as a last addition, I’m not a fan of condition builds for a few reasons. First of all, they operate along the premise that they are the main (sole) applicator of conditions. This is utterly and fundamentally flawed because almost every single member of a party inadvertently applies conditions with their build. This essentially takes up space that could be used by the “buffed” conditions and wastes the condition build’s effectiveness. Second, their DPS shines only over lengthy fights. Considering almost every single dungeon path can be run in under 15-20 mins, with multiple being able to be completed in as little as 6 minutes, I don’t quite see where the lengthy fights are coming in. I’d be willing to bet that the flat DPS provided by a glass cannon is far superior to that provided by a condition-based player in such a circumstance. Especially in a team comp where you have 100% Fury uptime. Lastly, they synergize poorly with Time Warp. This may seem a but of an odd statement, but Time Warp is probably the single greatest skill you can bring into any engagement. It allows certain bosses to be burnt down in less than 30 seconds, allows for rapid pushing of bosses from one phase to the next, and allows for the quick burning of otherwise difficult pulls. That a condition-based build doesn’t synergize as well as a glassy build is exceedingly detrimental.

Boonprot.6274:

The reason why I included our team build in the OP is because we do run specific builds, no matter who you are in the guild. The ranger build, then, has to obviously fit in with that mentality. I’d also like to comment that there is an exceedingly large difference between passable and optimal. ANet has implemented many passable build combinations, but very few optimal. It’s the nature of any game, really. It allows the “casuals” (I actually detest that term; I classify myself as a casual and yet I enjoy high-level PvE and WvW, the exact opposite to a traditional casual) to putter about with a “fun” build and somewhat contribute to the team.

It is great that you have a guild that is filled with players that will change their builds to what you want, but you will not find that outside of guilds. I think it is better to let the people who play the class determine what they want to run instead of forcing them to spec within what someone else wants.

Boonprot.6274:

Solandri.9640:

But if you’re asking for one build to rule them all, there is none.

The current fastest dungeon clearing composition is very warrior heavy with a guardian and mesmer for support. Therefore, if one were seeking to speed clear content the “one build to rule them all” would be a build which synergizes the best with this team. Therefore, this build does exist.

Noone is speaking of team builds. Or warrior, guardian, or mesmer builds. We are speaking of ranger (Ranger subforum, you know?). We all know that rangers are not as strong as those classes. We are speaking of maximizing what the ranger can do.

SynfulChaot.3169:

It is great that you have a guild that is filled with players that will change their builds to what you want, but you will not find that outside of guilds. I think it is better to let the people who play the class determine what they want to run instead of forcing them to spec within what someone else wants.

Noone is speaking of team builds. Or warrior, guardian, or mesmer builds. We are speaking of ranger (Ranger subforum, you know?). We all know that rangers are not as strong as those classes. We are speaking of maximizing what the ranger can do.

Apparently the vast majority of my OP is being misconstrued. I posted this thread for help with finding a build which would synergize best with our team comp. The reason why I mentioned the warrior bit was because that’s the role it will fill. Essentially a high DPS with a little bit of utility. Apparently it’s elitist of me to want to min/max and how dare I try to find a build that would work with our team comp. We’re a guild who is interested in speed clearing. Speed clearing requires you to run very specific builds with very specific consumables. The second anyone begins speaking about min/maxing, people seem to jump down their throats. There’s always going to be a spec that out-DPSs the others. Always.

At any rate, I think I’ve decided to tinker around with an SB/LB 30/30/5/0/5 build with the Red Moa/Jungle Stalker as pets. Troll Unguent with Quickening Zephyrs and most likely a couple of the spirits. Rampage As One for the elite.

Boonprot.6274:

Apparently the vast majority of my OP is being misconstrued. I posted this thread for help with finding a build which would synergize best with our team comp. The reason why I mentioned the warrior bit was because that’s the role it will fill. Essentially a high DPS with a little bit of utility. Apparently it’s elitist of me to want to min/max and how dare I try to find a build that would work with our team comp. We’re a guild who is interested in speed clearing. Speed clearing requires you to run very specific builds with very specific consumables. The second anyone begins speaking about min/maxing, people seem to jump down their throats. There’s always going to be a spec that out-DPSs the others. Always.

At any rate, I think I’ve decided to tinker around with an SB/LB 30/30/5/0/5 build with the Red Moa/Jungle Stalker as pets. Troll Unguent with Quickening Zephyrs and most likely a couple of the spirits. Rampage As One for the elite.

There is nothing wrong with trying to min-max, though you will not be able to match a warrior’s DPS with a ranger.

I believe the highest DPS ranger builds all include a SB, although the other weapon-set differs from person to person. Remember that the SB will outdamage the LB, even at LB max range. Unless you highly like the skills of the LB, or run piercing arrows to maximize targets hit, you may want to try a different secondary weapon-set. That being said, I do prefer the SB/LB combo myself.

If you don’t mind having a few less points in Marksmanship (and don’t mind not having Signet of the Beastmaster), I’d recommend shunting 10 of those points to Wilderness Survival. It will be a bit less power and condition duration, but you will pick up some toughness, condition damage, and some traits that can make you much more survivable.

I’d still also recommend Healing Spring over Troll Unguent. It is a stronger heal, can benefit others in the party, and has many other benefits such as regen and condition cure (and vigor, if traited). And it is the game’s longest water field (15 seconds) to boot!

And if you are seeking a higher damage weapon than LB, I have heard good things of sword/dagger.

This will be a difficult one. I’m normally used to playing for fun, but I’ll see what I can whip up off the top of my head.

I’d recommend SB and S/anything. Warhorn for extra fury, axe for whirl finisher/vuln on targets in melee with your rangers, or the dagger for the ranger’s own extra survivability with its dodge #4. Building high for ’zerker gear is probably the best way to go.

Generally, the ranger should be okay staying at a range with the shortbow, shooting things down at a range and generally out of danger. During boss fights, or fights where you normally use Time Warp by the mesmer, the ranger can swap to melee combat and use Rampage as One. The amount of might stacks you get from the elite, AND the third hit on the sword, means that the pet should quickly reach and maintain 25 stacks of might for the duration of Rampage as One.

The downside with pets is that there is currently no way to maintain boons on one pet when swapping to the other.

I avoid non-tanky pets because I don’t like waiting 60 seconds to swap pets if one falls before I can swap it. That usually means the one I have out is going to end up dying, just like the first one.

SynfulChaot has the right thinking for Healing Spring. The amount of utility it provides is just too much to pass up. It’s like building a self-sustaining guardian but not taking Altruistic Healing, except in the ranger’s case the heal benefits everyone and is a water field, which means other combo finishers will also be healing allies.

I will give a word of warning, however. Many people have complained of the sword’s unresponsiveness when auto-attacking with its #1 attack. I have not found much trouble (if any) with this weapon myself, but some players may need to adjust to how it functions.

Keyce.8137:

This will be a difficult one. I’m normally used to playing for fun, but I’ll see what I can whip up off the top of my head.

I’d recommend SB and S/anything. Warhorn for extra fury, axe for whirl finisher/vuln on targets in melee with your rangers, or the dagger for the ranger’s own extra survivability with its dodge #4. Building high for ’zerker gear is probably the best way to go.

Generally, the ranger should be okay staying at a range with the shortbow, shooting things down at a range and generally out of danger. During boss fights, or fights where you normally use Time Warp by the mesmer, the ranger can swap to melee combat and use Rampage as One. The amount of might stacks you get from the elite, AND the third hit on the sword, means that the pet should quickly reach and maintain 25 stacks of might for the duration of Rampage as One.

The downside with pets is that there is currently no way to maintain boons on one pet when swapping to the other.

I avoid non-tanky pets because I don’t like waiting 60 seconds to swap pets if one falls before I can swap it. That usually means the one I have out is going to end up dying, just like the first one.

SynfulChaot has the right thinking for Healing Spring. The amount of utility it provides is just too much to pass up. It’s like building a self-sustaining guardian but not taking Altruistic Healing, except in the ranger’s case the heal benefits everyone and is a water field, which means other combo finishers will also be healing allies.

I will give a word of warning, however. Many people have complained of the sword’s unresponsiveness when auto-attacking with its #1 attack. I have not found much trouble (if any) with this weapon myself, but some players may need to adjust to how it functions.

/facepalm I really need to stop posting at 2 AM. Of course I meant Healing Spring. That’s my mistake. Why you wouldn’t choose both a party-wide heal AND a water field as your heal of choice is beyond me.

I’m also well aware you can’t match a Warrior’s DPS with a Ranger. Nothing can, really.

When I run my Ranger (my fractals alt) I stick nothing but full zerk, 30/30/10/0/0 build. Piercing arrows and bow cooldown never leave my bar, nor does my shortbow. Lightning Reflexes and Quickening Zephyr always stay as well, since traited for Survival skills cooldown. Last utility depends on situation. Lately I’ve been swapping between Muddy Terrain and Flame Trap encounter depending.

In speed clearing I assume you will corner pull/group enemies at all possible. Muddy Terrain does a great job at keeping them there to eat the damage if the targets have a tendency to wander, while Flame Trap is a pulsing damage fire field on a ridiculously short cooldown (untraited, wouldn’t waste the slot for 1 trap).

Offhand weapon depends on the boss, but more often I choose GS over Sword/X. Sword/X is far more damage, no doubt, but GS has substantially higher survivability. I’ll only use Sword/X when I know there’s minimal risk to me and I want a melee damage boost.

Pets are fine at Jungle Stalker and Red Moa. Ranger doesn’t have access to much more party support than that and Healing Spring. Everyone can use more Fury, even in Warrior heavy comps.

I feel significantly weaker on my Ranger than my Warrior for obvious reasons, but you make due with what you have.