Guild Wars 2

Hello

for PvP i wanted to get a feel for what other condi rangers run. I have been trying out what has been posted in metabattle seen here and have been pretty effective.

http://metabattle.com/wiki/Build:Ranger_-_Condition_Survival

I have also been looking up videos on how to play this build more effectively, but what i have noticed is alot of the weapon sets and sigils people decide to use vary quite a bit. so i guess my main question is……

is Axe Dagger really better than Axe Torch with this build?

Yes the build does focus on bleed damage with sigils and runes but burning does quite a bit of damage without having to have 10+ stacks like bleed damage.

Does anyone run something similar that they have found to be more effect that what is posted on metabattle? My real concern is that if you arnt able to layer in other conditions effectively (which has been one of my problems) one condi clear can wipe a boat load of bleed stacks killing your damage output.

As a condi ranger you should aim for having at least 1 evasion per weapon set, that’s why Torch isn’t main bar’d but if you are willing to give up on that Poison + evade then torch is also a perfectly viable option.

Lack of cover conditions would be an issue for any other profession, but this ranger build can reapply those bleed stacks so fast that it’s not really a problem.

I myself prefer to run sw/t & a/d over shortbow. The biggest issue I’ve found with Metabattle’s condi survival build is out of combat mobility. All it has is Tail Wind which is 6.5s of swiftness on weapon swap in combat. It gets you through a fight but beyond that you move like a turtle and pretty much have to stay on point. Sword is a great way to move around with Hornet Sting/Monarch’s Leap once you get use to flipping directions. Chaining it with Lightning Reflexes is a great way to get out of a fight quickly.

You can see my variation of the condi survival build in my signature. What I like about condi survival is that you can tweak it to your preference and still be very effective. I myself take traveler runes over krait runes for the movement speed, plus the boon duration/condition duration is appreciated. Between Marksmanship Line (10%) and traveler rune (10%) I’m only missing 25% bleed duration, and my 20% effects all conditions and not just bleeds. Also, Keen Edge will proc Survival of the Fittest, which is why I take it over Sharpened Edges that generally works better with shortbow.

As for layering conditions and baiting out cleanses, I’ll repost what I said in another thread about the same thing.

Try preloading Sharpening Stone before a fight so it’s off timer early. You’ve got 30 seconds to use it on a 36 second cooldown. Helps you set up a quick burst for dropping their hp a bit and baiting out some early cleanses. Muddy Terrain > Stalker’s Strike > Splitblade/Sharpening Stone > Throw Torch is the rotation I use. With torment and geomancy sigils that will put on around 13 stacks of bleed, a stack of torment, burning, poison, cripple and vulnerability from Opening Strike. 6 conditions is enough to make some panic and blow some larger cleanses or take out a chunk of HP.

With Sharpening Stone off cooldown quickly, you’re set up for your main burst with Entangle (set it up with pet CC for guarantee hit) and Bonfire on your second rotation.

I don’t think metabattle has updated since the last patch but torment sigils offer a great way to cover more conditions with a perma stack ticking for ~100 damage/s. Well, take a peek and see if anything in it is something you can use. Sorry I don’t have any gameplay footage but my rotations should give you an idea of how I play it.

As mentioned, my preference is the Axe/Dagger Sword/Torch combo. 0/2/6/6/0, with Sharpening Stone, Lightning Reflexes, and Signet of Stone or Signet of Renewal, depending on the enemy team comp (I drop SoS if the enemy team is pure cele/condi/etc with now burst builds).

Krait Runes, celestial setup. Not necessarily because celestial is more efficient at damage dealing, but it’s definitely my preference for surviving, and the hybrid damage works better against certain classes (ele for instance) and also powers up the swords DPS more so you can go into an autoattack chain and pseudo DPS somebody down.

If I ran Muddy Terrain (I hate Muddy Terrain), I would go 2/0/6/6/0 instead, but I find I like the near perma-swiftness in combat (while weapon swapping consistently) and also, the 5 point GM minor in NM guarantees that both you and the pet will almost always be doing 5% more damage, which is never not a good bonus.

Shortbow is honestly just more of a teamfight option, and the metabattle build afaik hasn’t been updated since the torch update that made Bonfire bigger, so really, I mean, yes, the Shortbow is good for “poking” pressure, but I’d say your overall ability to deal damage is just better with the Axe Sword combo.

Leap through your fire field. Biggest piece of build efficiency I can give for the Sword/Torch combo.

I used to have Sword + Dagger as a defensive weapon set and Axe + Torch as offensive set.

And I learned the hard way that it’s not effective enough.
It’s better to have a mix of both in both setups.
… Also, Fire Aura from Sword + Torch combo is not half bad either.

And you can use Splitblade/Crippling Talon as projectile finishers in your Bonfire for extra burning up time.

Also, the trait “Offhand Training” is a must when using both torch and dagger. It makes your Bonfire huge, projectiles go further and your Stalker’s Strike has a longer reach. For highest up time on poison you can use Stalker’s Strike twice on a weapon rotation (8s cooldown).

Works extremely well in all situation vs all classes. The build is designed so that each part of the build compliments the other.

Your bow can stack up to 4 bleeds from one hit, massive condi removal, stun breaks, evades, high evasion etc etc.

Movement speed is complimented by the sword and slow with muddy terrain.

Actually thinking about posting a guide for this build because it is ridiculously good when played right.

The build is in description. Have fun (oh and take any main pet)

I have to say that axe is probably our weakest weapon and in strange spot. I would go with sword /torch or sword /dagger if you need more defense. Torch has been buffed and burning hurts a lot… really a lot.
You can also try spirit build support which I have been running more offensive style with sword and torch ( tried axe was my first choice but it kinda sucks )
I would always keep shortbow.

i play this as short bow-s/t it works for me, i use short bow from the majority of the fight to ware some one down and use s/t for either the evasion area denial to get so quick damage from the torch to down some one

aussieheals.6843:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yvvmM6ad_eI

Works extremely well in all situation vs all classes. The build is designed so that each part of the build compliments the other.

Your bow can stack up to 4 bleeds from one hit, massive condi removal, stun breaks, evades, high evasion etc etc.

Movement speed is complimented by the sword and slow with muddy terrain.

Actually thinking about posting a guide for this build because it is ridiculously good when played right.

The build is in description. Have fun (oh and take any main pet)

I have been playing a build similar to this one … But it has huge flaws.

Any condi-pressure class will melt you down. Think d/d eles. There’s no way you’ll be able to compete them. Shortbow is flank restricted that makes it’s damage a bit jumpy. Also, bleeding is the main source of damage …
…
And You need to stack it from 5 different ways
(Sigil / Sharpening Stone / Trait Keen Edge / Elite / Shortbow attack / Crit = minimal)
While it needs to be mentioned that it requires 10 / 36 / 36 / 48 / 0 / 0 seconds just to refresh the cooldown. And from these – only the Weapon Swap sigil of Geomancy can be considered a reliable dueling ability.

While all it requires is to wait 2 seconds and use a cleanse – and all of your blown cooldowns went to nowhere.

d/d eles will not only outshine this build – but even defeat it in a duel.

It definitely is viable – but is hard-countered in current meta in competitive environment. Simply because it lacks a full-cleanse and doesn’t provide the needed condi bomb pressure to compete in duels against sustainable classes.

Don’t run shortbow, troll, muddy terrain, 2 in skirmishing, spiders, or celestial for starters. They are poor choices that will result in you underperforming.

Thanks for all the feedback. gotta say i am new to ranger and really dig the support and ranger community!

I will say that i do enjoy short bow for the option to stay range….but i think it is more that i am having a hard time getting sword to work for me. its alot of jumping around and i havnt quite learned how the rotation works.

I terms of mobility i did try out traveler runes last night and really enjoyed the 25% movement speed. I do miss the condi bomb that krait runes gives to entangle tho. didnt notice too much of a damage decrease either.

@Treeoflife
The rune as such rarely matters. It’s mostly the (6) Rune bonus, and occasionally the (4) bonus. Not the stats the rune offers. The stat difference is close to none.

Tragic Positive.9356:

@Treeoflife
The rune as such rarely matters. It’s mostly the (6) Rune bonus, and occasionally the (4) bonus. Not the stats the rune offers. The stat difference is close to none.

Thought they nerfed it so one couldn’t mix and match runes for 4/6 bonus?

Crapgame.6519:

Tragic Positive.9356:

@Treeoflife
The rune as such rarely matters. It’s mostly the (6) Rune bonus, and occasionally the (4) bonus. Not the stats the rune offers. The stat difference is close to none.

Thought they nerfed it so one couldn’t mix and match runes for 4/6 bonus?

I think Tragic is only saying that sometimes the no. 4 slotted bonus from a rune set can sometimes be good enough that it could sway your decision when choosing a rune. you are correct that you have to use an entire set while in PvP. I personally don’t think of it was a nerf tho bc a lot of runes were reworked for the better.

Treeoflife.4031:

Crapgame.6519:

Tragic Positive.9356:

@Treeoflife
The rune as such rarely matters. It’s mostly the (6) Rune bonus, and occasionally the (4) bonus. Not the stats the rune offers. The stat difference is close to none.

Thought they nerfed it so one couldn’t mix and match runes for 4/6 bonus?

I think Tragic is only saying that sometimes the no. 4 slotted bonus from a rune set can sometimes be good enough that it could sway your decision when choosing a rune. you are correct that you have to use an entire set while in PvP. I personally don’t think of it was a nerf tho bc a lot of runes were reworked for the better.

Yeah, that’s the line of thinking that makes me take traveler runes over krait runes. I find being able to consistently move quickly in and out of combat is worth more than a couple extra seconds on my bleed stacks. Besides, the 10% condition duration from traveler runes and the 10% from marksmanship line (from moving to Keen Edge over Sharpened Edges) offsets 20% of the 45% bleed duration boost on krait runes. And that 20% effects a wide range of conditions that are at my disposal instead of just bleeding.

That’s in a sw/t a/d build though. It’s tough not to take krait runes and Sharpened Edges with shortbow even if you move like a turtle. I don’t have enough experience though with shortbow to say one way or another though.

Shanks.2907:

Treeoflife.4031:

Crapgame.6519:

Tragic Positive.9356:

@Treeoflife
The rune as such rarely matters. It’s mostly the (6) Rune bonus, and occasionally the (4) bonus. Not the stats the rune offers. The stat difference is close to none.

Thought they nerfed it so one couldn’t mix and match runes for 4/6 bonus?

I think Tragic is only saying that sometimes the no. 4 slotted bonus from a rune set can sometimes be good enough that it could sway your decision when choosing a rune. you are correct that you have to use an entire set while in PvP. I personally don’t think of it was a nerf tho bc a lot of runes were reworked for the better.

Yeah, that’s the line of thinking that makes me take traveler runes over krait runes. I find being able to consistently move quickly in and out of combat is worth more than a couple extra seconds on my bleed stacks. Besides, the 10% condition duration from traveler runes and the 10% from marksmanship line (from moving to Keen Edge over Sharpened Edges) offsets 20% of the 45% bleed duration boost on krait runes. And that 20% effects a wide range of conditions that are at my disposal instead of just bleeding.

That’s in a sw/t a/d build though. It’s tough not to take krait runes and Sharpened Edges with shortbow even if you move like a turtle. I don’t have enough experience though with shortbow to say one way or another though.

Thanks for the info. From a WvW perspective I’ve been toying with moving to Travelers for the speed but I’m using trapper which work reasonably well for movement. It only becomes an issue when you try and escape uneven numbers or reset and the chaser has them

I run a 2 (Keen Edge), 6 (Sharpened Edges, Trappers Expertise, Trap Potency) 6 (Wilderness Knowledge, Offhand Training, Empathic Bond) build using Rabid/Trapper runes. LB (hobbling / incapacitation) axe/torch (agony/geomancy) sigils. So a condition build but I am not sure if it is optimized – solo roaming WvW it works but I’m just an average player but I know a lot of you longer term rangers min/max and supplement food. I’m still using master tuning crystals and rare veggie pizza’s. Sometimes prickly pear stuff.

So this thread while PvP focused I’m taking a bit here and there trying to apply more to WvW. Again, thanks for the clarification.

Treeoflife.4031:

Crapgame.6519:

Tragic Positive.9356:

@Treeoflife
The rune as such rarely matters. It’s mostly the (6) Rune bonus, and occasionally the (4) bonus. Not the stats the rune offers. The stat difference is close to none.

Thought they nerfed it so one couldn’t mix and match runes for 4/6 bonus?

I think Tragic is only saying that sometimes the no. 4 slotted bonus from a rune set can sometimes be good enough that it could sway your decision when choosing a rune. you are correct that you have to use an entire set while in PvP. I personally don’t think of it was a nerf tho bc a lot of runes were reworked for the better.

^

Tragic Positive.9356:

aussieheals.6843:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yvvmM6ad_eI

Works extremely well in all situation vs all classes. The build is designed so that each part of the build compliments the other.

Your bow can stack up to 4 bleeds from one hit, massive condi removal, stun breaks, evades, high evasion etc etc.

Movement speed is complimented by the sword and slow with muddy terrain.

Actually thinking about posting a guide for this build because it is ridiculously good when played right.

The build is in description. Have fun (oh and take any main pet)

I have been playing a build similar to this one … But it has huge flaws.

Any condi-pressure class will melt you down. Think d/d eles. There’s no way you’ll be able to compete them. Shortbow is flank restricted that makes it’s damage a bit jumpy. Also, bleeding is the main source of damage …
…
And You need to stack it from 5 different ways
(Sigil / Sharpening Stone / Trait Keen Edge / Elite / Shortbow attack / Crit = minimal)
While it needs to be mentioned that it requires 10 / 36 / 36 / 48 / 0 / 0 seconds just to refresh the cooldown. And from these – only the Weapon Swap sigil of Geomancy can be considered a reliable dueling ability.

While all it requires is to wait 2 seconds and use a cleanse – and all of your blown cooldowns went to nowhere.

d/d eles will not only outshine this build – but even defeat it in a duel.

It definitely is viable – but is hard-countered in current meta in competitive environment. Simply because it lacks a full-cleanse and doesn’t provide the needed condi bomb pressure to compete in duels against sustainable classes.

The shortbow is the most reliable weapon in the game. The arrows fire fast, it has a combination of power and an array of condis and always hits when traited. I think you will find if you actually don’t hold directional arrows you will land a lot more hits while they are trying to flank.

But this is an example of why I want to make the detailed video to show a few tips and tricks that make all the difference and how to control the flow of the fight.

D/D eles are tough as is anyone at the top of their class, however, when you know when to push and when to pull the fight becomes much easier.

Edit: Your also forgetting the second weapon set, hybrid power and CC from pets

I tend to go with sb+ a/t. Shortbow is great overall pressure with good control over your enemy because of cripple and daze/stun. However positioning is the key since you lack sword evades. This is why evasive shot thing is awesome. It can always be used, even when retreating, and the swiftness helps you position better in a flanking position. Shortbow also gives adventage when your enemies retreat since they will most likely run away from you, which makes it easy to apply your bleeds.
Next to that A/T is your more offensive set. On pbl spitblade is a huge condition burst, even bigger when fired inside your fire field. While using this it is essential to run LR, muddy terain and ST. ST makes your burst doubled, and LR and MT keeps your surviveablility and control over the enemy up when in this set.

Cheerz!

aussieheals.6843:

The shortbow is the most reliable weapon in the game. The arrows fire fast, it has a combination of power and an array of condis and always hits when traited. I think you will find if you actually don’t hold directional arrows you will land a lot more hits while they are trying to flank.

But this is an example of why I want to make the detailed video to show a few tips and tricks that make all the difference and how to control the flow of the fight.

D/D eles are tough as is anyone at the top of their class, however, when you know when to push and when to pull the fight becomes much easier.

Edit: Your also forgetting the second weapon set, hybrid power and CC from pets

From my perspective – shortbow is a “safe pick” weapon. You can daze your target, you can evade backwards, you can cripple the enemy, you can dance around… That’s all safe play.
The only aggressive gameplay means… That the enemy is not paying attention to you. At all. If he was – he wouldn’t let you flank him for bleeds. Which means the damage pattern is not reliable. And the power component is … Low. With all due respect.

It’s not about “top class game play”. It’s about what a class can offer. While d/d ele is capable of winning most of 1v1, he is also capable of bursting huge AoE numbers, just as supporting the teamfight via 3 blast finishers.

Ranger is not even close to such luxury. This build is only good at focusing 1 target at a time and doesn’t even win all of them. 80% duels are skill match-ups which means the Ranger doesn’t really have the upper hand.

Talking about the pet – I’m afraid that goes for every build. Not only this one – so it means there’s no way including it as a “bonus / advantage” in contrast to other available builds.

EDIT: I can also imagine this build being used for bunkering or dueling. Which means mostly 1v1. If you pay attention to the mechanics even in the video – you are definitely going to let them decap your point eventually. You are jumping around and off the point far too often. cPvP is about points, not kills.

I’m personally running 2/0/6/6/0 using Carrion with the Scavenger and A/D + S/T.
I prefer A/D as theres plenty of condi damage but also condi coverage, not to mention you can shut down your opponent cripple + chill on weapon set can either stop someone from running away or for you to catch up with them, especially with offhand training.

However if I run rabid I like to take warhorn over offhand dagger, you loose a bit of defence but you gain a massive condi bomb, which is fairly spam able. Plus the fury/swiftness and blast finisher, this gives you a bit of team support and the blast finisher can be used in your torches fire field.

The first is much more survivable however you will have a little more trouble with power builds as you don’t have the 3k armour rabid does but you shouldn’t loose in a 1v1 matchup against condition specs. Also you have decent power (I think I have about 1.8k) which just helps supplement your damage. Rabid is less survivable but has much more condi burst.

I would say that off hand torch is a requirement for any condi build, it is the most damaging condition (Untraited) and we can apply it so easily , it takes about 5-6 stacks of bleeding to compare to burning alone.
I keep forgetting to get poison mastery to test it though. :/

Curring.9752:

I keep forgetting to get poison mastery to test it though. :/

There is a SB SD build that uses the same trait point distribution as yours but uses doom sigils on both weapon sets as well as poison mastery and the number of evades plus poison uptime looks OP. I have not attempted it yet either but i think it is on my list.

I tried out Sword/Torch and Axe/Dagger last night and ill say the damage was there but i found myself missing the Short Bow.

What about ST and SB combo? You have burn and poison on ST add Geomancy Sigil and sharpening stones for bleed….then you have poison and bleed on SB add Geomancy and Doom for an on swap condi bomb. This is all theoretical but does anyone run this?

Treeoflife.4031:

Curring.9752:

I keep forgetting to get poison mastery to test it though. :/

There is a SB SD build that uses the same trait point distribution as yours but uses doom sigils on both weapon sets as well as poison mastery and the number of evades plus poison uptime looks OP. I have not attempted it yet either but i think it is on my list.

I tried out Sword/Torch and Axe/Dagger last night and ill say the damage was there but i found myself missing the Short Bow.

What about ST and SB combo? You have burn and poison on ST add Geomancy Sigil and sharpening stones for bleed….then you have poison and bleed on SB add Geomancy and Doom for an on swap condi bomb. This is all theoretical but does anyone run this?

About the Poison Mastery … The DPS increase is roughly 100 per second with full condi build. Which with all due respect – is not really noticable (also keep in mind that Poison applied via pet scales with pet stats, not Ranger’s).
Also sacrifices very powerful defensive options that surpass the Poison Mastery in Value by several miles.

The Trait might be considered if you run without Torch and you go Shortbow + Sword/Dagger. That way the poison can be reapplied through pet swap, the damage is increased – and you focus on surviving through SotF, evades and utility. Not the stats or sustain.
You might even consider it important against cleansy-classes that are supposed to sustain a lot – like d/d Eles.

But the thing is – when you take Poison Mastery, you’d like to avoid Sigil of Doom. Simply because you already overcapped your poison duration by a huge amount. Which is a waste of stats. You might rather get the Sigil of Battle for bonus might Or the standard Geomancy. Heck, even Hydromancy is fine.

Alright thanks Tragic good to know. i do know that poison doesn’t have the highest damage out of the list of conditions…good to know poison mastery doesn’t do much.

I thought as much, I guess if poison stacked rather than extended duration it would be a pretty good option, if only pets had condi damage stat.

Your usual combo with Axe+Dagger would be 1. Winter’s Bite if available, 2. Stalker’s Strike to get close, 3. Splitblade for the burst.

I can guess that a problem for anyone can be that Splitblade is easily evaded. Fear not! Your enemy doesn’t evade because of splitblade, but because of Stalker’s Strike. When you do Stalker’s Strike, the enemy thinks “Oh crap he’s close and probably setting up to do something” but the normal reflex is to evade. Soooo, this leads to a conclusion.

Use Stalker’s Strike to bait evades and it will usually go down like this:
1: Stalker’s Strike
2: Enemy evades by reflex
3: Splitblade hits right in the face
3b: Enemy evades again and splitblade misses

If 3b occured:
Enemy has no evades and is forced to be on the defensive, exploit that.

Torch? Burning… Naaaaaaaaaaaah it’s good with sword for the fire aura, though… Or pets…

I’ve been a shortbow/axe+horn fan in open world for almost 2 years. Going over this build definitely helped me tune it up. I’m still using the horn offhand for group support/utility, but my ability to pulp enemies 1-on-1 or simply hold out against 2-on-1 until help arrives (keeping control of a point the whole time) has skyrocketed.

Thanks for the excellent advice!