Guild Wars 2

Hello everyone,

is there any viable alternative for the Zealot armor/weapons? I don’t want to spend 200g+ to change my old ascended armor. Stat combos which might work imo:

• Magi
  More healing but close to 0 damage. Since there’s a timer I’m not sure if this is viable.

• Celestial
  Decent healing and damage. Also somewhat tanky. Seems to be a good choice imo.

• Berserker/Cleric/Magi mix
  Could work since you can mix and match depending on what you need.

Please let me know which armor/weapons/trinkets you’re currently using and if it’s a viable choice.

Clerics. The druid contributing damage isn’t important to the success of the raid.

Cleric’s or Nomad’s if you don’t mind healing and tanking (assuming you have the highest toughness). Magi if you don’t want to manage both and focus on just healing. I started out using Cleric’s but now I prefer Magi. Experiences and preferences will vary.

How is Minstrel’s fitting in or is that too much toughness?

TurtleDragon.3108:

Clerics. The druid contributing damage isn’t important to the success of the raid.

This isn’t true. Having more DPS is always a good thing in raids. If a Druid can fulfill it’s role while also dishing out decent DPS then they should. Same with the raid’s tank.

Hammerguard.9834:

TurtleDragon.3108:

Clerics. The druid contributing damage isn’t important to the success of the raid.

This isn’t true. Having more DPS is always a good thing in raids. If a Druid can fulfill it’s role while also dishing out decent DPS then they should. Same with the raid’s tank.

Agreed but the buffs a Druid will be giving to their raid members will be enough to be extremely useful. Of course auto attacking with staff while not actively healing a particular group is good and can always use more direct damage but your modifiers are godlike. Also a neat thing I found out a couple days ago is the seeds that spawn when using a Glyph, when traited, will proc Grace of the Land because it is a skill from CAF.

Druid DPS is nice to have, but not required. Your main role is to heal and you are in Celestial Form most of the time which doesn’t do damage. It’s more raid DPS to buff your party with Grace of the Land than to contribute damage kittenty 2k auto attacks in Zealot’s gear.

Hammerguard.9834:

TurtleDragon.3108:

Clerics. The druid contributing damage isn’t important to the success of the raid.

This isn’t true. Having more DPS is always a good thing in raids. If a Druid can fulfill it’s role while also dishing out decent DPS then they should. Same with the raid’s tank.

The less time you deal damage by healing people the more damage healed people deal.
Druid’s DPS doesn’t matter. Unless it isn’t zero (which it will never be since pet), druid is not taken into a raid for self DPS. He is taken for the 30% bonus damage he helps others deal while allowing Zerkers deal damage for longer periods of time because they are not forced to back away from the battle to heal up often.

It’s been confirmed by several guilds (including turtledragon’s I thought?) that healing is not necessary for the entire first wing, so pure healing on a druid is likely a waste. Even in the DnT videos, watching the druid perspective was pretty cringe-worthy since she wasn’t doing much for the majority of the time. I haven’t read their breakdown of why they ran a druid at all in some instances, but since they had more than enough time to spare I’m guessing it was quality of life.

I’m sort of thinking DPS specs on other builds that can provide random healing, like viper engis are going to be the PUG comp.

Fluffball.8307:

It’s been confirmed by several guilds (including turtledragon’s I thought?) that healing is not necessary for the entire first wing, so pure healing on a druid is likely a waste. Even in the DnT videos, watching the druid perspective was pretty cringe-worthy since she wasn’t doing much for the majority of the time. I haven’t read their breakdown of why they ran a druid at all in some instances, but since they had more than enough time to spare I’m guessing it was quality of life.

I’m sort of thinking DPS specs on other builds that can provide random healing, like viper engis are going to be the PUG comp.

You definitely need a healer for the fights. It doesn’t have to be a full cleric/magi thing, but there is a lot of damage you can’t just dodge through and having the healer lets you recover from mistakes much easier (Like not moving the vale guardian quick enough and spawning a green circle on the platform is lit up). Staff camping and buffing your raid with Grace of the Land is more raid dps than swapping to a LB or sword and auto attacking in Zealots gear. The only reason to use zealots gear is to contribute like 50k more damage over 8 minutes on your staff. Not worth the 300g+ cost which is why I don’t recommend it to people gearing a druid.

Shameless plug but Gorseval from Zealot Druid POV
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QZniH4X1J-g

2-4k auto attacks isn’t more raid DPS than staying in astral form and buffing your party.

I don’t want to search through the SC and DnT and whoever comments because they’re scattered all over the web, but I understood that it is perhaps not even optimal to run healers? Is your thought on druid based around just wanting to play with a druid on the team, or would it make more sense to have healing from DPS engis and whatever else?

For the 3rd boss I think I can immediately find a bunch of comments saying a healing spot isn’t needed, and for the 1st even you said it wasn’t needed.

Again, I have no idea what I’m talking about, just trying to piece it together from 2nd hand info. And mah baby doesn’t seem to be coming anytime soon according to the doctors so I’m tentatively planning on completing this for myself…

Idk, I haven’t actually tried pulling Sabetha. But I imagine the druid would smooth out the learning curve and heal unavoidable damage. All the world 1-5 kills did use a healer druid.

@Fluffball
Druid is not a necessity but an improvement to raid sustain.
That’s the difference.

You still need a sustain of sort. Of course it can be Revenants, Engies and Eles – but it takes 3 people to do a thing that 1 could handle, while druid can buff 5 people’s DPS by 30%.
You can manage to beat a raid without a druid, but having one will help you bring it down much easier.

Tragic Positive.9356:

@Fluffball
Druid is not a necessity but an improvement to raid sustain.
That’s the difference.

You still need a sustain of sort. Of course it can be Revenants, Engies and Eles – but it takes 3 people to do a thing that 1 could handle, while druid can buff 5 people’s DPS by 30%.
You can manage to beat a raid without a druid, but having one will help you bring it down much easier.

I’m sure it is easier, but is it worth it? For now you want a druid as your group does it for the first time, but do we always want a druid?

Even in PUG land I think it’s a clear “no”. Let’s see how much easier it makes it.

Fluffball.8307:

I’m sure it is easier, but is it worth it? For now you want a druid as your group does it for the first time, but do we always want a druid?

Even in PUG land I think it’s a clear “no”. Let’s see how much easier it makes it.

We managed to kill Vale Guardian because of it.
It’s not only the Healing he brings. A druid increases overall DPS of the raid while healing people up. It’s not about needing one. It’s about efficiency.

You never needed meta for anything. You could have played 5 naked thieves perma-stealthing and throwing caltrops around. And you could have defeated any dungeon or content this way. But the moral of the story is that who in the world would do it when he can do it in a better way?

TurtleDragon.3108:

Clerics. The druid contributing damage isn’t important to the success of the raid.

it really is.
Its about healing as much as needed but as little as possible even that might sound weird on paper. in theory you have all those little time windows where you could have get out 2 or 3 good auto attacks instead of like one staff 2 that the group did not even need at this time (remember people have their own heal skills aswell) and alltogether its about doing the most efficient in the current situation with the timewindow you have. if you heal someone who does not need heal its a dps loss for the entire raid.
Even if you have heals, you re not a healer but a support. and people have no free ticket to just take every dmg just so you´re not useless as you dont do dmg anyways.

another example. you have 6 armor pieces and all 6 are clerics without even testing how much heal you actually need to keep the group alive. what if you can just keep the group alive with 4 clerics just as much as you do with 6 but you could put in more dmg aswell as a bonus. even if you heal and even if you re not a dps there is no reason to use more healing power than you actually need to keep the group alive, thats why you can change out gear on the fly. like with this group i might be fine with 6 clerics and zerker trinkets but another group might be worse at dodging and need more heal so just change out 1 ring and see if this will do the job… continue continue. as much dmg as possible while as much heal as needed.

also its not about “is this class needed?” be happy if you manage to dodge everything so the druid can support you with dps instead! but IF someone fails you re just screwd. a druid is there to help out if people make mistakes and nothing else and if you re not like the perfect human being or like a robot you will allways do mistakes and with 10 people in one raid someone will do mistakes. the druid is NOT a healer who is only able to heal. its a support. you can support with heal buffs or dmg. you provide whats needed on the fly.

@SoftLight

Which basically means we don’t need anyone in the raid because if people can avoid every single attack, can DPS on the move, can fulfill mechanics without any problems (like having spawn 2 seekers one after another into Green field which means no knockbacks) and RNG is not any factor in the raid at all – you basically cleared the boss without any heal whatsoever.
… Right.

If you go for offensive stats (let’s say Zealot), you might be able to deal 10% more damage (15 seconds in CAF, 10 damaging, still no Zealot accessory). That’s probably 3 seconds of 8 minute fight.
You do realize that by camping CAF into perfection you can boost 9 people’s DPS by 15%, right? Why in the world would you try to go for personal DPS when you are the DPS support monster in the raid?
I’d rather utilize around staying alive and keeping others alive – creating much more DPS from DPS members than me as a Druid that I know I benefit like 50% less then anyone else.

Your pet is still a bunch of DPS of you. You want to camp staff (which is already a support nonDPS weapon) and you can potentially contribute as a tank and healer in 1 person.
That’s much more benefits than you’d take from Zealot that has close to no synergy from our class.

Ok, druid is not 100% nesesary but it defnily helps a raid go much smoother.

Can we return to topic about alternatives to zealot gear? (sorry if it sounds rude but im also interested on this and the topic about if druid is or not usefull seems off topic to me)

Tora.7214:

Ok, druid is not 100% nesesary but it defnily helps a raid go much smoother.

Can we return to topic about alternatives to zealot gear? (sorry if it sounds rude but im also interested on this and the topic about if druid is or not usefull seems off topic to me)

My insight is that Zealot is not worth the gold. Period. Cleric was my second best choice.
I made use of toughness miles and miles better.

I was thinking of nomad (or Minstrel). If you intend to be as efficient as it gets – you might be a tank and a healer in one.

I really want something with Vit, Pow, Heal; or Vit, Tough, Pow, Heal but am not seeing anything like that so, being realistic with myself and what I can afford/already have… I came up with this so far:

http://gw2skills.net/editor/?vNUQJAWTn0rCVsglsC2sCEtiFKBD+nWUTqOTuKXPrJA04SAjoM-TxDBQBX4CAAFleVQJYM2I0EIEVCE06CW4QAMQ1IWwDAIIqqAATQOw0DDOCAnSHAXUGEA4AgrDAA-e

I just am unsure what to do for runes at this point… Altruism would be nifty but is way too expensive, same for sigil of transference so I used that benevolence one (I do not see anything else worth while). I do not see myself running around open world with this but would continue to carry my condi gear at all times and just swap on need in a raid. Once I have laurels again, I can upgrade to two rings (I do not have ecto for amulets for an off-set like this). Also have my warhorn in my bag in case I want axe/warhorn instead of the longbow, hence that trait (not that the other two are any good with the ICDs).

Regardless, I have the 1k healing power everyone says is the tipping point, the toughness should not outdo the tank but still keep me alive, vitality is decent enough to survive some condi’s, and the precision is just an unfortunate byproduct but nothing ridiculous.

I hope i never get some of you in a raid. There is literally no reason for a druid to run nomad’s or clerics. Their DPS DOES help and if every other kitten class can run a glass build including condi ranger there’s no excuses for a druid to not do the same.

Running zealot’s in no way affects your ability to heal or give party buffs. You also contribute far far more by doing some dps while you heal.

As for alternatives, there aren’t any that are good. Everything else is just subpar. run cleric’s until you can get zealots and never touch nomad’s.

vespers.1759:

I hope i never get some of you in a raid. There is literally no reason for a druid to run nomad’s or clerics. Their DPS DOES help and if every other kitten class can run a glass build including condi ranger there’s no excuses for a druid to not do the same.

Running zealot’s in no way affects your ability to heal or give party buffs. You also contribute far far more by doing some dps while you heal.

As for alternatives, there aren’t any that are good. Everything else is just subpar. run cleric’s until you can get zealots and never touch nomad’s.

Except that druids r meant to camp staff and the damage it does is so low it doesnt matter. Druids offer raid wide damage, which is why i feel a cleric druid is better for the raid as it can also fulfill a tank role at the same time, giving room for an extra dps. Ofc this requires the raid to be individually skilled, which raids r all about.

vespers.1759:

I hope i never get some of you in a raid. There is literally no reason for a druid to run nomad’s or clerics. Their DPS DOES help and if every other kitten class can run a glass build including condi ranger there’s no excuses for a druid to not do the same.

Running zealot’s in no way affects your ability to heal or give party buffs. You also contribute far far more by doing some dps while you heal.

As for alternatives, there aren’t any that are good. Everything else is just subpar. run cleric’s until you can get zealots and never touch nomad’s.

What about Minstrel’s – seems that is something the devs hinted at. At least on the staff stat options when given the staff. I don’t know, just wondering why all these stats are in the game if not required. What are they for (serious question)?

Tanking is great and all, but then you get past Vale Guardian and realize you don’t actually need a tank.

nacario.9417:

vespers.1759:

I hope i never get some of you in a raid. There is literally no reason for a druid to run nomad’s or clerics. Their DPS DOES help and if every other kitten class can run a glass build including condi ranger there’s no excuses for a druid to not do the same.

Running zealot’s in no way affects your ability to heal or give party buffs. You also contribute far far more by doing some dps while you heal.

As for alternatives, there aren’t any that are good. Everything else is just subpar. run cleric’s until you can get zealots and never touch nomad’s.

Except that druids r meant to camp staff and the damage it does is so low it doesnt matter.

No.

vespers.1759:

nacario.9417:

vespers.1759:

I hope i never get some of you in a raid. There is literally no reason for a druid to run nomad’s or clerics. Their DPS DOES help and if every other kitten class can run a glass build including condi ranger there’s no excuses for a druid to not do the same.

Running zealot’s in no way affects your ability to heal or give party buffs. You also contribute far far more by doing some dps while you heal.

As for alternatives, there aren’t any that are good. Everything else is just subpar. run cleric’s until you can get zealots and never touch nomad’s.

Except that druids r meant to camp staff and the damage it does is so low it doesnt matter.

No.

Yes.

every bit of dps helps and have zealot’s does not hurt your ability to heal. where’s the downside?

vespers.1759:

every bit of dps helps and have zealot’s does not hurt your ability to heal. where’s the downside?

It cost’s a kitten ton of gold for very little gain and toughness helps with survivability.

TurtleDragon.3108:

vespers.1759:

every bit of dps helps and have zealot’s does not hurt your ability to heal. where’s the downside?

It cost’s a kitten ton of gold for very little gain and toughness helps with survivability.

that doesn’t make it worse… what a terrible argument. i don’t want to pay for it either but it doesn’t change the fact it is better.

vespers.1759:

every bit of dps helps and have zealot’s does not hurt your ability to heal. where’s the downside?

As a healer, you sometimes have to decide whether you are going to heal yourself or an ally before some of you go down.
With toughness you can afford to take the hit still surviving, heal the guy up, then focus on yourself and others. You have to dodge roll less – allowing you to focus more on distributing the Grace of the Land bonus to more allies (since you don’t have to heal yourself much – wasting the heals and buff on yourself) and you can afford to make mistakes (which is likely the case thinking about how many things you have to watch as a druid).

Is this what you were interested in ?

From my perspective all the people asking for help or ideas on forums are those playing in pugs or unorganized guilds. Which is the same as a pug.
I with my party keep constantly changing builds, people, utilities, stats and roles according to content. Anyone who thinks about being dedicated to beat Raid content already knows there is no such thing as ideal composition or ideal build.

No one here even mentioned the immobilizing druid build which is a must have for 2nd boss. Not even those of people here who claim to know the best about Druids and their capability.
So a note to those people: think from another perspective, not yours. It’s cool you have a group that already cleared the whole wing, amazing. But some of the people here are struggling with community that does mistakes and druids excel at that role. Naturally that makes the Cleric / Mistrel / Nomad druids viable options.

If people wanted me to bring only the damage and nothing else – I’d bring Berserker and wouldn’t think about CAF even for a single second. Because that’s what most of you suggest.

vespers.1759:

TurtleDragon.3108:

vespers.1759:

every bit of dps helps and have zealot’s does not hurt your ability to heal. where’s the downside?

It cost’s a kitten ton of gold for very little gain and toughness helps with survivability.

that doesn’t make it worse… what a terrible argument. i don’t want to pay for it either but it doesn’t change the fact it is better.

It’s not a straight up upgrade, there are trade offs and multiple druid builds are all viable. I stopped to think about what do I actually gain from running almost full zealots, and it basically came down to just extra staff auto attack damage. You spend most of your time in Celestial Astral Form which has almost 0 damage and zealots doesn’t affect it. When you are out of it, you are not buffing your party with grace of the land and you want to be on staff to charge it ASAP. I have stated multiple times I don’t think it’s worth it to swap off staff to S or LB for your own personal DPS. As a druid, it’s your job to heal people and you need to prioritize the following: Healing > Your own Survival > Damage. If your raid comp is having DPS issues, then you are trying to squeeze out extra DPS from the wrong player as you can easily clear the raid without relying on your druid for DPS. All the top guilds are going to release their Druid builds soon, and I know at least 2 of them did not use Zealots.

Is it “Better”? If you are comfortable without toughness and can survive without it and don’t need to tank then sure zealot’s is a little bit better. It’s not so much better that you are hurting your raid by being a cleric druid.

For the record, I do have a full zealots set and a clerics set and I use both depending on the strat and the strength of the raid.

i fee like the same could be said for all classes -> having trouble surviving? Oh then run more defense… except nobody says that’s good for dps and i disagree that it is good for the healer too. Like i said, everyone else is glass and surviving, the druid can do it too.

vespers.1759:

i fee like the same could be said for all classes -> having trouble surviving? Oh then run more defense… except nobody says that’s good for dps and i disagree that it is good for the healer too. Like i said, everyone else is glass and surviving, the druid can do it too.

Other classes can deal damage while healing themselves up. It doesn’t overwrite all of their DPS skills.

If druid wants to go for efficiency – he’ll be healing and buffing DPS through Grace of the land. As much as he can.
And he CAN’T deal damage during this time. Investing so much gold into a class whose job is to boost damage, not deal one, is an economical waste.

If Druid is the only DPS that made you fail the timer, I’m concerned about why did you make him heal in the 1st place. And if you did – I’m concerned why did you make him squishy which doesn’t allow him to do his job in comfort (because you need druids only if you make mistakes – why didn’t you allow him to make some too and survive it with a bit of extra defense when he is already doing the kitteny duty?)

Just going to point out that it’s often other ppl’s mistakes that cause you take excess damage and not your own. Not always the case, but it happens a lot in raid.

Magis armor/weapons is the best choice. it allows you to take zerker trinkets and still put out more than enough heals.

cleric’s is not good because it has +toughness. A decent tank will use as little toughness as possible to get aggro, since so far, nothing does a remarkable amount of unavoidable damage (vale guardian, for example, does around a 3k autoattack, tops.) this allows the tank to put out almost as much dps as another dps class.

I honestly consider magi’s armor/weapons, zerker trinkets to be the best option. you’re not losing much damage or healing, and honestly, the druid isn’t healing themselves much, so the extra tankiness is helpful

So…is there a general consensus here?

To me it almost seems that Celestial armor is ideal and use weapons, rings, accessories, and neck to fill in the gaps. That is if you already have it.

Otherwise it is hit or miss until the changes steady out and go for exotics. And that sounds like Clerics or something so I guess I’m not sure. I was actually going to build a set of Minstrel but that is on hold.

The general consensus is that any gear with healing power works and you may have to adjust your toughness based on your group’s raid composition. Your individual player skills and strategy matter more than the gear you wear. Also, zealots is overrated.

Keeping the team alive is more important than how much DPS the Druid can put out by itself.
Would you rather the team DPS effectively or worry about their health bar getting low and popping their own heals?

Also the buffs to increase damage that the Druid can put out the team, surpasses the Druids possible DPS – BY FAR.

Minstrel’s gear tends to be even more expensive than Zealot’s, has less healing and more toughness than Cleric’s, you barely make use of that Boon duration as Druid and has no offensive stats whatsoever. This gear was meant to be most likely for boon-heavy supports like Revenant, Tempest since they get best value off that Boon Duration.

But since it has Toughness instead of Power, it’s rather poor choice for anyone.

Rym.1469:

Minstrel’s gear tends to be even more expensive than Zealot’s, has less healing and more toughness than Cleric’s, you barely make use of that Boon duration as Druid and has no offensive stats whatsoever. This gear was meant to be most likely for boon-heavy supports like Revenant, Tempest since they get best value off that Boon Duration.

But since it has Toughness instead of Power, it’s rather poor choice for anyone.

Makes sense when you put it that way.

Something like this? (Crusader + Zealot trinkets)
http://gw2skills.net/editor/?vNAQFABA-TVxaABiq+jk6AkVZQRK9AQJIA-w

2259 power
21% crit chance
179% crit dmg
2842 armor
714 healing power

I think the toughness might be too high and I’m not sure if you can get zealot trinkets and crusader stuff.

EDIT: nvm. just realised you can’t get zealot trinkets lol.

kiwituatara.6053:

Something like this? (Crusader + Zealot trinkets)
http://gw2skills.net/editor/?vNAQFABA-TVxaABiq+jk6AkVZQRK9AQJIA-w

2259 power
21% crit chance
179% crit dmg
2842 armor
714 healing power

I think the toughness might be too high and I’m not sure if you can get zealot trinkets and crusader stuff.

Unless you’re going for a secondary emergency Healer build or you’re with a very (and I mean very) skillful group;
Clerics should be everyones first choice

Clerics has way to much toughness. Was in a group where the tank did an amazing job and only had 1400 toughness. I had to go to the bank to change armor because I was getting agro.

Zealots inst that expensive and coverting your ascended clerics to zealot would be the better choice.

You can mix your Clerics with Magi’s if its having too much of an impact on your tank.

TurtleDragon.3108:

You can mix your Clerics with Magi’s if its having too much of an impact on your tank.

How Much crit chance is needed for it to be viable?
Maybe Magi Gear and Cleric Trinkets could be a good mix

As I said above, and as Serraphin said, Clerics has way too much toughness. full Magi’s armor will give you enough healing power to keep everyone alive. IF you really need more healing power, get celestial trinkets(otherwise, zerker). full clerics trinkets alone is way too much toughness. unless you’re tanking, you shouldn’t have over 1200 toughness unbuffed, IMO.

There’s magi ascended accessory from dungeon collections and magi trinkets exo from karma vendors in temples.

Atm Id run a mix of zerker and magi in a power based build, but only because spirits are broken.

The biggest problem is that people always search for a straight and “real” answer.
But there will never be one.
Cleric is fine → Unless you start taking your tank’s aggro
Zealot is fine → Unless you or raid make mistakes that you die to
Celestial is fine → If you don’t know what to do or you are not needed for a specific role
Mix of Cleric / Magi / Berserker is fine → If you know what you are doing.

If you wipe in raids – it’s 90% because someone sucks, not because you didn’t have enough Healing Power or Precision.

It actually hurts when people say hurdur druid is not needed for raids. It’s my only toon (well, I gots level 80 necro but it’s not even geared up) so am I supposed to just.. Not do raids at all then?

Fluffball.8307:

And mah baby doesn’t seem to be coming anytime soon according to the doctors so I’m tentatively planning on completing this for myself…

Ah, you are running minion master build irl? Gratsu! Soon the forums will be flooded and taken over by Fluffarmy!

FrouFrou.4958:

It actually hurts when people say hurdur druid is not needed for raids. It’s my only toon (well, I gots level 80 necro but it’s not even geared up) so am I supposed to just.. Not do raids at all then?

Fluffball.8307:

And mah baby doesn’t seem to be coming anytime soon according to the doctors so I’m tentatively planning on completing this for myself…

Ah, you are running minion master build irl? Gratsu! Soon the forums will be flooded and taken over by Fluffarmy!

Almost every group that has completed the entire wing has used a druid, or you can still run the regular damage rangers. I am just musing on whether after people get good at the encounters whether healing is QoL or would people rather just have more DPS. And I really hope I don’t wind up with that many minions!