Guild Wars 2

KensaiZen.3740:

Same argument as Rangers bring nothing to the group.

Uh no. They bring less to the group though. Something I’d like to see changed in a class I love.

I was actually originally pointing out you clearly know nothing about Mesmers so you probably shouldn’t make unfounded claims about them as it makes your arguments look weak. See the part of your post I quoted.

I play my ranger more than all of my other classes but im still under no illusions about their relative effectiveness. Leave your assumptions about where I’m coming from at the door mate as you clearly fail to grasp that we are actually on the same side here. We both love Rangers and believe in the class. I however am willing to actually concede that they have shortcomings compared to the other classes rather than doggedly flying in the face of all evidence and dismissing all criticism off hand.

I play a beastmaster crit build in all game modes. I do fractals, dungeons, wvw the lot and I do it well. I don’t have an issue keeping pets alive, I understand our dps comes from a combination of ranger and pet, I know how to use the rooting 1-handed sword etc, etc, etc, plus I’ve never called the ranger a bad class.

The reason I posted is because I felt you were doing more damage than good. If you are going to be a spokesman for the class and a vocal proponent for our effectiveness then it would help if you had a clue what the other classes could do too. Something your mesmer comment clearly demonstrated you don’t.

Rhaps.8540:

What? There’s nothing wrong with the list. It’s a list of skills that mesmers have that offer support to a group, not a discussion about how effective they are.

And I’m just saying most of those aren’t very good at supporting the group. Like winds of chaos. That’s hardly support at all. Granting a fire field for your team really knocks that out and Ranger can do that.

Anyway, im glad you still agree with what im saying in the end. Makes me wonder why you felt the need to try and pick apart the list in the first place.

Namely to highlight that a mesmer doesn’t offer all that much support alone. Signet of Inspiration recharges pretty long, there’s not always projectiles to worry about, time warp is on a huge cooldown and illusions don’t have all that much base HP…BUT a mesmer outfitted to support can do so pretty well. Most professions are like that, they only provide marginal support unless geared and traited for it and mesmer is one of those. But bring a beserker shatter mesmer to a group, I’m not seeing that being a huge supporter and I’d even go on a limb and say a support Ranger will out-support one, contrary to popular belief.

Leo G.4501:

But bring a beserker shatter mesmer to a group, I’m not seeing that being a huge supporter and I’d even go on a limb and say a support Ranger will out-support one, contrary to popular belief.

I still feel I bring less to the table with a support ranger than I do on my mesmer. The thing with the mesmer is even when they arent specced to support they still splatter boons all over the place as part of their offensive setup. As you know a lot of the skills I listed have a direct dmg/condition aspect to them too so whilst the boons on their own may not be hugely impressive when you combine the fact that the same skills are applying control effects and dps to enemies at the same time it makes it clear how much more useful mesmers are.

I’d love to see some improvements to ranger support options to balance this kind of thing out more. Off the top of my head something like Nature’s Renewal also being an AoE kd or healing spring also acting like a pulsing AoE cripple (to simulate the wet ground around it like muddy terrain skill). I’m just sptiballing there, but i think you get what I mean

Leo G.4501:

Not a very good list, Rhaps.

For one, winds of chaos, siren’s call, such bouncing skills don’t give vigor, might, fury and swiftness. They give vigor, might, fury OR swiftness. They are random boons that may or may not last very long and boons/conditions from illusions aren’t affected by your duration %. So extra boons from them often are very short lived along with being random.

Illusion of Life is likely the worst revive skill as it can thwart other attempts to revive in progress and can fail to do anything but put your ally in an instant dead state. Phantasmal Disenchanter is abysmal and slow. If it ever removes any of your conditions, those conditions have likely taken their toll regardless. Null field does’t quite cure all conditions, it cures conditions per pulse so you have to stay in the field while it works.

…but yeah, a Mesmer can certainly support well. With its toolbag of CC and phenomenal traits, you can passively give allies regeneration via phantasms, you can heal people around you from casting mantras, you can remove boons and Phantasmal Defender can cut damage by 50% of those hit within its range. I’d even say mesmer, when specc’ed for it are probably the 2nd or 3rd best support there is.

Not correct on Illusion of Life. You go back to downed when it ends if you don’t kill something — it doesn’t defeat you. It’s a great tool because it allows 3 people to get up and dps for 15 more seconds even if they don’t kill something, and if a person goes down in a bad spot it allows them to reposition to a safe spot to be rezzed.

A mesmer is by far the best rezzer in game with a 10 sec cd on creating feedback when rezzing, it could grant group vigor with shatters or use restorative mantras. Its biggest utility is in reflection skills and time warp (even nerfed it is likely the best elite in the game), on top of the third best damage after warrior and thief.

The mesmer is also the class that can have the most melee uptime in dungeons with double swords, which gives him a 2 sec immunity, another low cd block, and permanent vigor from critting.

The only downside to the mesmer is that he has no build diversity. You go GC shatter, or you go Inspiration Glamour/Resto mantra traitline shatter. Phantasm builds are useless in dungeons as illusions die nearly as quickly as spirits do. And of course, staff/conditions are terrible.

P.S. A berserker geared mesmer can still go into Inspiration for support and do more damage than a full glass cannon ranger or guardian. Just go 10/30/0/30/10 and you’ll do great damage with great support.

Rhaps.8540:

KensaiZen.3740:

Same argument as Rangers bring nothing to the group.

Uh no. They bring less to the group though. Something I’d like to see changed in a class I love.

I was actually originally pointing out you clearly know nothing about Mesmers so you probably shouldn’t make unfounded claims about them as it makes your arguments look weak. See the part of your post I quoted.

I play my ranger more than all of my other classes but im still under no illusions about their relative effectiveness. Leave your assumptions about where I’m coming from at the door mate as you clearly fail to grasp that we are actually on the same side here. We both love Rangers and believe in the class. I however am willing to actually concede that they have shortcomings compared to the other classes rather than doggedly flying in the face of all evidence and dismissing all criticism off hand.

I play a beastmaster crit build in all game modes. I do fractals, dungeons, wvw the lot and I do it well. I don’t have an issue keeping pets alive, I understand our dps comes from a combination of ranger and pet, I know how to use the rooting 1-handed sword etc, etc, etc, plus I’ve never called the ranger a bad class.

The reason I posted is because I felt you were doing more damage than good. If you are going to be a spokesman for the class and a vocal proponent for our effectiveness then it would help if you had a clue what the other classes could do too. Something your mesmer comment clearly demonstrated you don’t.

It is merely using the same mentality as those who bash the Ranger class.

1. Rangers do the worst damage of all the classes.
2. Rangers have the worst support.
3. Pets are 40% (funnily enough the number gets higher and higher each month) of our damage but die all the time.
4. Rangers are rubbish at everything.

or the other group

1. Rangers suck, if I wanted damage I would bring a Warrior.
2. Rangers suck, if i wanted conditions I would bring a Necro.
3. Rangers suck, if I wanted support I would bring a Guardian.
4. Rangers suck, if I wanted combo fields I would bring an ele.

Then there is the mesmer who fills a niche role for timewarp and portals. People don’t bring a mesmer for anything else.

I don’t know about thieves either as the class does not fill the first 3 roles any better than those 3 classes. What do thieves bring to the group that’s so unique? group stealth? I wouldn’t say that it was extremely useful in dungeons. For damage it is still warrior that does more.

Now we come to the Ranger. Decent melee, good range, good damage, good support… without even having to trait for it! The Ranger brings to the table the missing element to a group. Need more damage? i’ll use birds or a cat 10k bursts every time I use rapid fire. Need more survival? there’s the fern hound and moas. Need to do AoE? Drakes. etc etc You have access to a huge amount of utilities that can be switched any tme you are out of combat. And you know whats even better? you can use them at a VERY long range.

Having a Ranger in a party increases the success rate in a difficult dungeon. Sure the dungeons we have at the moment aren’t difficult at all. Why would they be difficult after everyone has run them hundreds if not thousands of times? Does anyone even remember how people used to kitten about how hard AC was?

The Ranger may not be the best at any of the 4 categories listed but it has the capabilities to bring ALL 4 of the categories in 1 class. A full GC Ranger has more survival than any other class. It is perfectly viable to do great damage AND bring support at the same time without having to be picked up off the floor.

With a Ranger in the group, the speed of the party does not go up but dungeon completion success rate goes up.

Just wait till they bring out new challenging dungeons where Damage doesn’t mean as much. I would love to see how the community reacts to that.

KensaiZen.3740:

Oh and if you guys have forgotten. The point once again is that rangers have kitten damage because damage is shared with a pet that dies all the time in a dungeon. Well if it doesnt die…. what the hell are you complaining about?

You all can make a high damage build. Im not a Ranger elite neither am i amazing with a Ranger, but if i can keep the pets alive to do extra damage. Why cant you?

I would love to see people running GC builds in dungeons they dont know like the back of their hands.

LOL, any build/geared player will die in a dungeon they haven’t practiced. Unexperienced GC people dying in dungeons is not an argument against the effectiveness of GC.

You can run GC EVERYWHERE and the only place it might be painful is perhaps CM.

Zenith.7301:

Leo G.4501:

Not a very good list, Rhaps.

For one, winds of chaos, siren’s call, such bouncing skills don’t give vigor, might, fury and swiftness. They give vigor, might, fury OR swiftness. They are random boons that may or may not last very long and boons/conditions from illusions aren’t affected by your duration %. So extra boons from them often are very short lived along with being random.

Illusion of Life is likely the worst revive skill as it can thwart other attempts to revive in progress and can fail to do anything but put your ally in an instant dead state. Phantasmal Disenchanter is abysmal and slow. If it ever removes any of your conditions, those conditions have likely taken their toll regardless. Null field does’t quite cure all conditions, it cures conditions per pulse so you have to stay in the field while it works.

…but yeah, a Mesmer can certainly support well. With its toolbag of CC and phenomenal traits, you can passively give allies regeneration via phantasms, you can heal people around you from casting mantras, you can remove boons and Phantasmal Defender can cut damage by 50% of those hit within its range. I’d even say mesmer, when specc’ed for it are probably the 2nd or 3rd best support there is.

Not correct on Illusion of Life. You go back to downed when it ends if you don’t kill something — it doesn’t defeat you. It’s a great tool because it allows 3 people to get up and dps for 15 more seconds even if they don’t kill something, and if a person goes down in a bad spot it allows them to reposition to a safe spot to be rezzed.

A mesmer is by far the best rezzer in game with a 10 sec cd on creating feedback when rezzing, it could grant group vigor with shatters or use restorative mantras. Its biggest utility is in reflection skills and time warp (even nerfed it is likely the best elite in the game), on top of the third best damage after warrior and thief.

The mesmer is also the class that can have the most melee uptime in dungeons with double swords, which gives him a 2 sec immunity, another low cd block, and permanent vigor from critting.

The only downside to the mesmer is that he has no build diversity. You go GC shatter, or you go Inspiration Glamour/Resto mantra traitline shatter. Phantasm builds are useless in dungeons as illusions die nearly as quickly as spirits do. And of course, staff/conditions are terrible.

P.S. A berserker geared mesmer can still go into Inspiration for support and do more damage than a full glass cannon ranger or guardian. Just go 10/30/0/30/10 and you’ll do great damage with great support.

“But why would you bring a mesmer for support when you can bring a Guardian” mesmers aren’t the best at support etc etc etc don’t defend the class, if its not the best. It must be kitten.

or so the saying goes.

I’m just going to go out on a limb and guess you haven’t explored support Rangers well enough.

Those offensive boons ‘splatter’ all over are kitten when having more allies in range make them worse. As for having direct damage and condition aspects with your control, this is nothing new or unique. A warrior can do this. An elementalist can do this. A ranger can do this. I don’t understand why you figure, just because it does direct damage with conditions suddenly means it’s support…not by itself…not by a long shot.

In my perspective, people look too much at what things don’t do and not enough at what they can do. It builds false expectations and perpetuates unjust stigmas. But then none of this really matters, talking about support and whatever…no one needs or wants it anyway so it’s rather moot…had people yell at me in groups, telling me I don’t know how to play my mesmer because I don’t shatter. No duh, because it’s a support mesmer! You give people boons with them and give them retaliation and they’ll soak up hits and shave a bit of HP off enemies!

But hoo, the kill rate is low so it’s nub lolz…am I right?

Zenith.7301:

KensaiZen.3740:

Oh and if you guys have forgotten. The point once again is that rangers have kitten damage because damage is shared with a pet that dies all the time in a dungeon. Well if it doesnt die…. what the hell are you complaining about?

You all can make a high damage build. Im not a Ranger elite neither am i amazing with a Ranger, but if i can keep the pets alive to do extra damage. Why cant you?

I would love to see people running GC builds in dungeons they dont know like the back of their hands.

LOL, any build/geared player will die in a dungeon they haven’t practiced. Unexperienced GC people dying in dungeons is not an argument against the effectiveness of GC.

You can run GC EVERYWHERE and the only place it might be painful is perhaps CM.

Not true. If you play properly, you will not die in a new dungeon. The mentality is completely different with such scenarios. You play a lot more cautious. You don’t just try to DPS the hell out of everything. Thus the benefit of damage gets dumbed down.

This will then fall onto the support side. But too much support and not enough damage will also not succeed. They probably will but very lowly. Too slow for most players in the western hemisphere.

Then there’s the Ranger. Damage and support all rolled into one.

KensaiZen.3740:

Zenith.7301:

Leo G.4501:

Not a very good list, Rhaps.

For one, winds of chaos, siren’s call, such bouncing skills don’t give vigor, might, fury and swiftness. They give vigor, might, fury OR swiftness. They are random boons that may or may not last very long and boons/conditions from illusions aren’t affected by your duration %. So extra boons from them often are very short lived along with being random.

Illusion of Life is likely the worst revive skill as it can thwart other attempts to revive in progress and can fail to do anything but put your ally in an instant dead state. Phantasmal Disenchanter is abysmal and slow. If it ever removes any of your conditions, those conditions have likely taken their toll regardless. Null field does’t quite cure all conditions, it cures conditions per pulse so you have to stay in the field while it works.

…but yeah, a Mesmer can certainly support well. With its toolbag of CC and phenomenal traits, you can passively give allies regeneration via phantasms, you can heal people around you from casting mantras, you can remove boons and Phantasmal Defender can cut damage by 50% of those hit within its range. I’d even say mesmer, when specc’ed for it are probably the 2nd or 3rd best support there is.

Not correct on Illusion of Life. You go back to downed when it ends if you don’t kill something — it doesn’t defeat you. It’s a great tool because it allows 3 people to get up and dps for 15 more seconds even if they don’t kill something, and if a person goes down in a bad spot it allows them to reposition to a safe spot to be rezzed.

A mesmer is by far the best rezzer in game with a 10 sec cd on creating feedback when rezzing, it could grant group vigor with shatters or use restorative mantras. Its biggest utility is in reflection skills and time warp (even nerfed it is likely the best elite in the game), on top of the third best damage after warrior and thief.

The mesmer is also the class that can have the most melee uptime in dungeons with double swords, which gives him a 2 sec immunity, another low cd block, and permanent vigor from critting.

The only downside to the mesmer is that he has no build diversity. You go GC shatter, or you go Inspiration Glamour/Resto mantra traitline shatter. Phantasm builds are useless in dungeons as illusions die nearly as quickly as spirits do. And of course, staff/conditions are terrible.

P.S. A berserker geared mesmer can still go into Inspiration for support and do more damage than a full glass cannon ranger or guardian. Just go 10/30/0/30/10 and you’ll do great damage with great support.

“But why would you bring a mesmer for support when you can bring a Guardian” mesmers aren’t the best at support etc etc etc don’t defend the class, if its not the best. It must be kitten.

or so the saying goes.

Because Guardians don’t have Time Warp for the warriors or stealth/boon removal for dredge fractal or a reflection bubble to end Lupicus phase 2 in one skill. That’s why.

When you ranger can bring something none of the upper tier classes can bring, then you can try to make a point.

But why do I bother, from the comment above I feel one troll has made a very profitable run for the lolz.

Leo G.4501:

I’m just going to go out on a limb and guess you haven’t explored support Rangers well enough.

Those offensive boons ‘splatter’ all over are kitten when having more allies in range make them worse. As for having direct damage and condition aspects with your control, this is nothing new or unique. A warrior can do this. An elementalist can do this. A ranger can do this. I don’t understand why you figure, just because it does direct damage with conditions suddenly means it’s support…not by itself…not by a long shot.

In my perspective, people look too much at what things don’t do and not enough at what they can do. It builds false expectations and perpetuates unjust stigmas. But then none of this really matters, talking about support and whatever…no one needs or wants it anyway so it’s rather moot…had people yell at me in groups, telling me I don’t know how to play my mesmer because I don’t shatter. No duh, because it’s a support mesmer! You give people boons with them and give them retaliation and they’ll soak up hits and shave a bit of HP off enemies!

But hoo, the kill rate is low so it’s nub lolz…am I right?

100% lol

Golly gosh, the whole fanboy brigade is out in full swing tonight.

Zenith.7301:

KensaiZen.3740:

Oh and if you guys have forgotten. The point once again is that rangers have kitten damage because damage is shared with a pet that dies all the time in a dungeon. Well if it doesnt die…. what the hell are you complaining about?

You all can make a high damage build. Im not a Ranger elite neither am i amazing with a Ranger, but if i can keep the pets alive to do extra damage. Why cant you?

I would love to see people running GC builds in dungeons they dont know like the back of their hands.

LOL, any build/geared player will die in a dungeon they haven’t practiced. Unexperienced GC people dying in dungeons is not an argument against the effectiveness of GC.

You can run GC EVERYWHERE and the only place it might be painful is perhaps CM.

Actually CM is probably the bet place for GC. All mobs are medium to light armoured and easily burst down before their conditions do much dmg. You sure you know what your taking about?

Zenith.7301:

KensaiZen.3740:

Zenith.7301:

Leo G.4501:

Not a very good list, Rhaps.

For one, winds of chaos, siren’s call, such bouncing skills don’t give vigor, might, fury and swiftness. They give vigor, might, fury OR swiftness. They are random boons that may or may not last very long and boons/conditions from illusions aren’t affected by your duration %. So extra boons from them often are very short lived along with being random.

Illusion of Life is likely the worst revive skill as it can thwart other attempts to revive in progress and can fail to do anything but put your ally in an instant dead state. Phantasmal Disenchanter is abysmal and slow. If it ever removes any of your conditions, those conditions have likely taken their toll regardless. Null field does’t quite cure all conditions, it cures conditions per pulse so you have to stay in the field while it works.

…but yeah, a Mesmer can certainly support well. With its toolbag of CC and phenomenal traits, you can passively give allies regeneration via phantasms, you can heal people around you from casting mantras, you can remove boons and Phantasmal Defender can cut damage by 50% of those hit within its range. I’d even say mesmer, when specc’ed for it are probably the 2nd or 3rd best support there is.

Not correct on Illusion of Life. You go back to downed when it ends if you don’t kill something — it doesn’t defeat you. It’s a great tool because it allows 3 people to get up and dps for 15 more seconds even if they don’t kill something, and if a person goes down in a bad spot it allows them to reposition to a safe spot to be rezzed.

A mesmer is by far the best rezzer in game with a 10 sec cd on creating feedback when rezzing, it could grant group vigor with shatters or use restorative mantras. Its biggest utility is in reflection skills and time warp (even nerfed it is likely the best elite in the game), on top of the third best damage after warrior and thief.

The mesmer is also the class that can have the most melee uptime in dungeons with double swords, which gives him a 2 sec immunity, another low cd block, and permanent vigor from critting.

The only downside to the mesmer is that he has no build diversity. You go GC shatter, or you go Inspiration Glamour/Resto mantra traitline shatter. Phantasm builds are useless in dungeons as illusions die nearly as quickly as spirits do. And of course, staff/conditions are terrible.

P.S. A berserker geared mesmer can still go into Inspiration for support and do more damage than a full glass cannon ranger or guardian. Just go 10/30/0/30/10 and you’ll do great damage with great support.

“But why would you bring a mesmer for support when you can bring a Guardian” mesmers aren’t the best at support etc etc etc don’t defend the class, if its not the best. It must be kitten.

or so the saying goes.

Because Guardians don’t have Time Warp for the warriors or stealth/boon removal for dredge fractal or a reflection bubble to end Lupicus phase 2 in one skill. That’s why.

When you ranger can bring something none of the upper tier classes can bring, then you can try to make a point.

But why do I bother, from the comment above I feel one troll has made a very profitable run for the lolz.

Rangers bring pets to Res your kitten when you make one mistake ta ends up getting your kitten killed. They also bring an elite that “res” people.

2 skills about ressing people… coincidence? or mechanic? you decide.

Zenith.7301:

Not correct on Illusion of Life. You go back to downed when it ends if you don’t kill something — it doesn’t defeat you.

Illusion of Life counts as another down. If you get 3 downs, you die. You can’t really see how many times someone has gone down unless you simply remember. So not only will it interrupt other rez attempts, if it fails, it either puts them one step closer to instant death or it kills them.

P.S. A berserker geared mesmer can still go into Inspiration for support and do more damage than a full glass cannon ranger or guardian. Just go 10/30/0/30/10 and you’ll do great damage with great support.

Likely story, is all I’ll say (check your idioms, fwiw)

KensaiZen.3740:

Zenith.7301:

KensaiZen.3740:

Zenith.7301:

Leo G.4501:

Not a very good list, Rhaps.

For one, winds of chaos, siren’s call, such bouncing skills don’t give vigor, might, fury and swiftness. They give vigor, might, fury OR swiftness. They are random boons that may or may not last very long and boons/conditions from illusions aren’t affected by your duration %. So extra boons from them often are very short lived along with being random.

Illusion of Life is likely the worst revive skill as it can thwart other attempts to revive in progress and can fail to do anything but put your ally in an instant dead state. Phantasmal Disenchanter is abysmal and slow. If it ever removes any of your conditions, those conditions have likely taken their toll regardless. Null field does’t quite cure all conditions, it cures conditions per pulse so you have to stay in the field while it works.

…but yeah, a Mesmer can certainly support well. With its toolbag of CC and phenomenal traits, you can passively give allies regeneration via phantasms, you can heal people around you from casting mantras, you can remove boons and Phantasmal Defender can cut damage by 50% of those hit within its range. I’d even say mesmer, when specc’ed for it are probably the 2nd or 3rd best support there is.

Not correct on Illusion of Life. You go back to downed when it ends if you don’t kill something — it doesn’t defeat you. It’s a great tool because it allows 3 people to get up and dps for 15 more seconds even if they don’t kill something, and if a person goes down in a bad spot it allows them to reposition to a safe spot to be rezzed.

A mesmer is by far the best rezzer in game with a 10 sec cd on creating feedback when rezzing, it could grant group vigor with shatters or use restorative mantras. Its biggest utility is in reflection skills and time warp (even nerfed it is likely the best elite in the game), on top of the third best damage after warrior and thief.

The mesmer is also the class that can have the most melee uptime in dungeons with double swords, which gives him a 2 sec immunity, another low cd block, and permanent vigor from critting.

The only downside to the mesmer is that he has no build diversity. You go GC shatter, or you go Inspiration Glamour/Resto mantra traitline shatter. Phantasm builds are useless in dungeons as illusions die nearly as quickly as spirits do. And of course, staff/conditions are terrible.

P.S. A berserker geared mesmer can still go into Inspiration for support and do more damage than a full glass cannon ranger or guardian. Just go 10/30/0/30/10 and you’ll do great damage with great support.

“But why would you bring a mesmer for support when you can bring a Guardian” mesmers aren’t the best at support etc etc etc don’t defend the class, if its not the best. It must be kitten.

or so the saying goes.

Because Guardians don’t have Time Warp for the warriors or stealth/boon removal for dredge fractal or a reflection bubble to end Lupicus phase 2 in one skill. That’s why.

When you ranger can bring something none of the upper tier classes can bring, then you can try to make a point.

But why do I bother, from the comment above I feel one troll has made a very profitable run for the lolz.

Rangers bring pets to Res your kitten when you make one mistake ta ends up getting your kitten killed. They also bring an elite that “res” people.

2 skills about ressing people… coincidence? or mechanic? you decide.

When will you be doing higher level Fractals with the Ranger? Doing old content means nothing. Many of us did the old content long before we had a full set of exotics, and now that we have a full set of exotics, the older content is useless.

Do content that requires a lot more skill, and show how effective the Ranger is at meeting my needs when I build groups for level 62+ Fractals. I know I will not invite a Ranger to a 62+ Fractals group, and to my knowledge anyone of a hundred people I run with also will not let a Ranger in our groups.

Do not use old content to convince anyone of anything. Use the newer content that requires greater skill, and better group synergy from the classes in the game. Have you even completed a single 50+ Fractals? Your play in that video leaves me believing you have not.

Leo G.4501:

Zenith.7301:

Not correct on Illusion of Life. You go back to downed when it ends if you don’t kill something — it doesn’t defeat you.

Illusion of Life counts as another down. If you get 3 downs, you die. You can’t really see how many times someone has gone down unless you simply remember. So not only will it interrupt other rez attempts, if it fails, it either puts them one step closer to instant death or it kills them.

P.S. A berserker geared mesmer can still go into Inspiration for support and do more damage than a full glass cannon ranger or guardian. Just go 10/30/0/30/10 and you’ll do great damage with great support.

Likely story, is all I’ll say (check your idioms, fwiw)

If you seriously can’t keep track of how many times a bar has gone red in some obvious UI, the problem is you.

Who the hell cares about rez attempts on the grawl shaman fractal when illusion of life means a guaranteed rez since they’ll kill elementals. Illusion of Life is also part of the meta in spvp and wvw.

It’s not a bad skill, get over it.

Zenith.7301:

Leo G.4501:

Zenith.7301:

Not correct on Illusion of Life. You go back to downed when it ends if you don’t kill something — it doesn’t defeat you.

Illusion of Life counts as another down. If you get 3 downs, you die. You can’t really see how many times someone has gone down unless you simply remember. So not only will it interrupt other rez attempts, if it fails, it either puts them one step closer to instant death or it kills them.

P.S. A berserker geared mesmer can still go into Inspiration for support and do more damage than a full glass cannon ranger or guardian. Just go 10/30/0/30/10 and you’ll do great damage with great support.

Likely story, is all I’ll say (check your idioms, fwiw)

If you seriously can’t keep track of how many times a bar has gone red in some obvious UI, the problem is you.

Who the hell cares about rez attempts on the grawl shaman fractal when illusion of life means a guaranteed rez since they’ll kill elementals. Illusion of Life is also part of the meta in spvp and wvw.

It’s not a bad skill, get over it.

IoL is decent in the Grawl Shaman fight if only to reposition if you go down in a bad spot. But outside of that, having multiple people try to get back up against trash, they could have just as easily used their downed skills to kill the same target to rally properly. In fights were there is no trash readily available, this situational utility is even worse despite rez utilities being situational in the first place.

People can go down and rally in an instant. It’s happened to me, it’s happened to you and being able to ‘keep up with obvious UI’ isn’t always possible since you can’t differentiate when someone is on the brink of death and instant rallies or they simpl used a heal.

And still, you didn’t say kitten about if it fails (which it can) and how that could put your next down at instant death. Face it. If you’re trying to use Illusion of Life to rez anyone, it’s only as a last resort when you yourself can’t get over there and rez them properly. You don’t use it if my elementalist can simply swap to earth and rez multiple allies guaranteed, or a well placed battle standard or hell, even a pet swooping in to get someone up. Using IoL sabotages any of those attempts without a guarantee of success.

Lastly, this isn’t about PvP or WvW. Keep up with the discussion, please.

KensaiZen.3740:

Leo G.4501:

I’m just going to go out on a limb and guess you haven’t explored support Rangers well enough.

Those offensive boons ‘splatter’ all over are kitten when having more allies in range make them worse. As for having direct damage and condition aspects with your control, this is nothing new or unique. A warrior can do this. An elementalist can do this. A ranger can do this. I don’t understand why you figure, just because it does direct damage with conditions suddenly means it’s support…not by itself…not by a long shot.

In my perspective, people look too much at what things don’t do and not enough at what they can do. It builds false expectations and perpetuates unjust stigmas. But then none of this really matters, talking about support and whatever…no one needs or wants it anyway so it’s rather moot…had people yell at me in groups, telling me I don’t know how to play my mesmer because I don’t shatter. No duh, because it’s a support mesmer! You give people boons with them and give them retaliation and they’ll soak up hits and shave a bit of HP off enemies!

But hoo, the kill rate is low so it’s nub lolz…am I right?

100% lol

Laugh it up and backslap each other all you like, it doesn’t mean you’re right.

I don’t care how you play your mesmer or how fast you kill. Needless to say I’ve never had any complains from fellow players when playing mine. Direct dmg, conditions and control through stun & immobolise is still better than what the ranger offers. You’re right in mentioning warrior and ele, they can also do this a lot better than the ranger. Other classes offer more buffs, at range, with mobility, consistantly without having to sacrifice as much dps. I think this is unfair on rangers and would like to see it addressed.

You guys however seem happy to bury your heads in the sand and mock anyone who disagrees. Fair enough, maybe you need more time with the class to understand, but I’d drop the fanatical pro-ranger viewpoint. As the vast majority of the posters in this thread have already realised, rangers need work to be brought in line with the other classes. Even the devs have said as much. No amount of wise-cracking comments on your part is going to change that.

I’m out of this thread now, my time is better spent discussing the class with people who understand the reality of the situation.

Staying at 1500 range plinking away, using your utilities for pure self convenience is how rangers get so much bad rep, and why a good chunk of the community thinks that ranger is the “noob class” .

There is so much more we can do at closer ranges, swapping weapons, using HS, buffing, rezzing, getting those boons, and WE SHOULD DO because as rangers, we need to excel just to not be considered a wasted slot.

I almost wish that 1500 range trait was removed, maybe that would improve the class and force bads to try something different, like, something ACTUALLY USEFUL

Aegis.9724:

Staying at 1500 range plinking away, using your utilities for pure self convenience is how rangers get so much bad rep, and why a good chunk of the community thinks that ranger is the “noob class” .

There is so much more we can do at closer ranges, swapping weapons, using HS, buffing, rezzing, getting those boons, and WE SHOULD DO because as rangers, we need to excel just to not be considered a wasted slot.

I almost wish that 1500 range trait was removed, maybe that would improve the class and force bads to try something different, like, something ACTUALLY USEFUL

But thats key to the point. 1500 range with a longbow (unique to the ranger) is one of the core mechanics of the class. Its one of the things that make a Ranger… a Ranger. Plink away at long range whilst using pets to support the group.

It is the synergy that was created for the weapon and playstyle. It is why you have access to craploads of utilities in pets that you can easily manage from long range. With pet management you can be DPS to Support with no problems. Can switch up on the go.

Versatility of the Ranger.

LadyLad.1389:

KensaiZen.3740:

Zenith.7301:

KensaiZen.3740:

Zenith.7301:

Leo G.4501:

Not a very good list, Rhaps.

For one, winds of chaos, siren’s call, such bouncing skills don’t give vigor, might, fury and swiftness. They give vigor, might, fury OR swiftness. They are random boons that may or may not last very long and boons/conditions from illusions aren’t affected by your duration %. So extra boons from them often are very short lived along with being random.

Illusion of Life is likely the worst revive skill as it can thwart other attempts to revive in progress and can fail to do anything but put your ally in an instant dead state. Phantasmal Disenchanter is abysmal and slow. If it ever removes any of your conditions, those conditions have likely taken their toll regardless. Null field does’t quite cure all conditions, it cures conditions per pulse so you have to stay in the field while it works.

…but yeah, a Mesmer can certainly support well. With its toolbag of CC and phenomenal traits, you can passively give allies regeneration via phantasms, you can heal people around you from casting mantras, you can remove boons and Phantasmal Defender can cut damage by 50% of those hit within its range. I’d even say mesmer, when specc’ed for it are probably the 2nd or 3rd best support there is.

Not correct on Illusion of Life. You go back to downed when it ends if you don’t kill something — it doesn’t defeat you. It’s a great tool because it allows 3 people to get up and dps for 15 more seconds even if they don’t kill something, and if a person goes down in a bad spot it allows them to reposition to a safe spot to be rezzed.

A mesmer is by far the best rezzer in game with a 10 sec cd on creating feedback when rezzing, it could grant group vigor with shatters or use restorative mantras. Its biggest utility is in reflection skills and time warp (even nerfed it is likely the best elite in the game), on top of the third best damage after warrior and thief.

The mesmer is also the class that can have the most melee uptime in dungeons with double swords, which gives him a 2 sec immunity, another low cd block, and permanent vigor from critting.

The only downside to the mesmer is that he has no build diversity. You go GC shatter, or you go Inspiration Glamour/Resto mantra traitline shatter. Phantasm builds are useless in dungeons as illusions die nearly as quickly as spirits do. And of course, staff/conditions are terrible.

P.S. A berserker geared mesmer can still go into Inspiration for support and do more damage than a full glass cannon ranger or guardian. Just go 10/30/0/30/10 and you’ll do great damage with great support.

“But why would you bring a mesmer for support when you can bring a Guardian” mesmers aren’t the best at support etc etc etc don’t defend the class, if its not the best. It must be kitten.

or so the saying goes.

Because Guardians don’t have Time Warp for the warriors or stealth/boon removal for dredge fractal or a reflection bubble to end Lupicus phase 2 in one skill. That’s why.

When you ranger can bring something none of the upper tier classes can bring, then you can try to make a point.

But why do I bother, from the comment above I feel one troll has made a very profitable run for the lolz.

Rangers bring pets to Res your kitten when you make one mistake ta ends up getting your kitten killed. They also bring an elite that “res” people.

2 skills about ressing people… coincidence? or mechanic? you decide.

When will you be doing higher level Fractals with the Ranger? Doing old content means nothing. Many of us did the old content long before we had a full set of exotics, and now that we have a full set of exotics, the older content is useless.

Do content that requires a lot more skill, and show how effective the Ranger is at meeting my needs when I build groups for level 62+ Fractals. I know I will not invite a Ranger to a 62+ Fractals group, and to my knowledge anyone of a hundred people I run with also will not let a Ranger in our groups.

Do not use old content to convince anyone of anything. Use the newer content that requires greater skill, and better group synergy from the classes in the game. Have you even completed a single 50+ Fractals? Your play in that video leaves me believing you have not.

Havent actually bothered with fractals on the ranger. Done up to 19 on the Guardian. No AR not a fan of fractals. Same with a lot of people. Not everyone will do high lvl fractals.

But you know. Just for the hell of it. I think i will. I would like to see how fail is the Ranger in fractals.

KensaiZen.3740:

But thats key to the point. 1500 range with a longbow (unique to the ranger) is one of the core mechanics of the class..

Could you stop repeating things that have been proven wrong?

It makes you look even worse.

The ranger does quite fine in fractals up to level 26 , i have not done higher fractals yet

Just watched your video. You do realize that there were several times that you hit for 300 or 400 with your longbow? Given how slowly it attacks and that you are using a power weapon, that is pathetic damage. Going back to the OP, that is the point. The damage was far from “Godly”.

<edit>
Heck, your Longbow’s Rapid Fire was doing less then 4,000 damage. Given that it’s a 5sec channel, that’s less than 800dps. Given that most people hit for that much with auto-attacks that hit every 0.5 seconds, you’re doing less than 50% of their damage.

Excuse me, what is that “GC” thing you all are talking about?

Leo G.4501:

Zenith.7301:

Leo G.4501:

Zenith.7301:

Not correct on Illusion of Life. You go back to downed when it ends if you don’t kill something — it doesn’t defeat you.

Illusion of Life counts as another down. If you get 3 downs, you die. You can’t really see how many times someone has gone down unless you simply remember. So not only will it interrupt other rez attempts, if it fails, it either puts them one step closer to instant death or it kills them.

P.S. A berserker geared mesmer can still go into Inspiration for support and do more damage than a full glass cannon ranger or guardian. Just go 10/30/0/30/10 and you’ll do great damage with great support.

Likely story, is all I’ll say (check your idioms, fwiw)

If you seriously can’t keep track of how many times a bar has gone red in some obvious UI, the problem is you.

Who the hell cares about rez attempts on the grawl shaman fractal when illusion of life means a guaranteed rez since they’ll kill elementals. Illusion of Life is also part of the meta in spvp and wvw.

It’s not a bad skill, get over it.

IoL is decent in the Grawl Shaman fight if only to reposition if you go down in a bad spot. But outside of that, having multiple people try to get back up against trash, they could have just as easily used their downed skills to kill the same target to rally properly. In fights were there is no trash readily available, this situational utility is even worse despite rez utilities being situational in the first place.

People can go down and rally in an instant. It’s happened to me, it’s happened to you and being able to ‘keep up with obvious UI’ isn’t always possible since you can’t differentiate when someone is on the brink of death and instant rallies or they simpl used a heal.

And still, you didn’t say kitten about if it fails (which it can) and how that could put your next down at instant death. Face it. If you’re trying to use Illusion of Life to rez anyone, it’s only as a last resort when you yourself can’t get over there and rez them properly. You don’t use it if my elementalist can simply swap to earth and rez multiple allies guaranteed, or a well placed battle standard or hell, even a pet swooping in to get someone up. Using IoL sabotages any of those attempts without a guarantee of success.

Lastly, this isn’t about PvP or WvW. Keep up with the discussion, please.

The ele rez utility has a significantly longer cast time, while IoL is instant. And when you play 40+ lv fractals where the grawl shaman landing an arrow on a downed player means death, then no wasting time to go rez or the offchance that an add will be killed is a stupid risk to take.

Maybe you suffer from tunnel vision and can’t see when an ally goes down with that big blue icon on top of their downed state appearing briefly even if they rally right afterwards, but other people can.

Stop trolling. IoL is not a waste of a skill. Why don’t you go post this garbage on the mesmer forums so they can laugh you out of there? IoL has 3 targets baseline, is on a shorter cooldown than other multitarget rez utilities, and doesn’t have the cast times of other rez utilities. Of course it won’t 100% rez — it’d be stupidly imbalanced compared to the other utilities.

KensaiZen.3740:

But thats key to the point. 1500 range with a longbow (unique to the ranger) is one of the core mechanics of the class. Its one of the things that make a Ranger… a Ranger. Plink away at long range whilst using pets to support the group.

It is the synergy that was created for the weapon and playstyle. It is why you have access to craploads of utilities in pets that you can easily manage from long range. With pet management you can be DPS to Support with no problems. Can switch up on the go.

Versatility of the Ranger.

Your definition of “support” must be something other than the one that’s in the dictionary. By my count you used the wolf’s fear twice, though I didn’t notice any particular effect. Your jaguar was stealthed once or twice…even though the stealth is the entire point of that pet over others.

I would suggest you go collect some more pets, a jungle stalker for might and red moa for fury, used on cd during fights, would support your group more than 2 fears over the course of a dungeon.

I’m not sure why you need feel the need to constantly talk about 1500 range. Yes, we’re the only profession that can use 1500 range with a longbow, but not the only profession that can use skills from 1500 range. This has been pointed out several times, but precisely what makes the ranger’s longbow so great compared with other professions hasn’t been explained.

During the defend event if you want to stick with a gs then you should be using maul and swoop just about whenever they’re up. Since you’re forced into close quarters, using x/warhorn would likely benefit the group as a whole more than the difference between the dps from the two weapons.

If you spend the 5 points into BM I would suggest you swap pets fairly often for the quickness, especially in melee where you don’t lose the time it takes your pet to run to the target.

Yeah, standing skill and spamming autoattack is so much fun…
Anyway, there is no much kind of foe what won’t be at your face within seconds.
Risens…. BANG lot of HP gone.

In PVP? They lock you and kitten you.
In WWW? Same. You’re free frag in the eyes of ’em.

RoyalPredator.9163:

Yeah, standing skill and spamming autoattack is so much fun…
Anyway, there is no much kind of foe what won’t be at your face within seconds.
Risens…. BANG lot of HP gone.

In PVP? They lock you and kitten you.
In WWW? Same. You’re free frag in the eyes of ’em.

To be fair this is PvE, why play a PvP based style when there’s no particular reason?

Sebrent.3625:

Just watched your video. You do realize that there were several times that you hit for 300 or 400 with your longbow? Given how slowly it attacks and that you are using a power weapon, that is pathetic damage. Going back to the OP, that is the point. The damage was far from “Godly”.

<edit>
Heck, your Longbow’s Rapid Fire was doing less then 4,000 damage. Given that it’s a 5sec channel, that’s less than 800dps. Given that most people hit for that much with auto-attacks that hit every 0.5 seconds, you’re doing less than 50% of their damage.
</edit>

It’s hilarious how much the OP has been all over the place in this thread. Like you said, in his original post he brags about how great ranger damage is and then everyone shows him just how bad it actually is in comparison to other dps specs. He then posts a video showing exactly how fail his own “godly” dps is. He then tries to switch his argument into how great Ranger support is and that it makes up for any lack of damage (which is also untrue). He obviously doesn’t understand that pretty much everyone can bring the same support tools that a ranger does.

I love my ranger and can actually pull some decent dps with him, but it’s certainly not with a crappy longbow.

Yes, its completely unreasonable for anyone to expect you to actually support the things you’ve been repeating over and over. So now you’ve proven that a ranger can be immobile and plink for substandard damage and not get hit too much, was that ever an issue?

Rhaps.8540:

You guys however seem happy to bury your heads in the sand and mock anyone who disagrees.

I’m not burying my head anywhere and I’m right along side the community seeking to adjust and improve the ranger, but the way you chose to do it, I’ve seen time and time again across other games and I can see live right now if I go visit another profession forum.

You attempt to inflate the capabilities of another profession to make your chosen one seem less capable while dismissing other integral variables that impact and limit those other professions. If those professions are too powerful, take it up with those professions but it’s hardly strengthening your point to have rangers fixed by pointing out what another profession does but not making note of how they do it and what they give up to do so.. Rangers have their own set of variables that completely sidestep points you highlight as ‘unfair’ so you make it like comparing apples and grapefruit.

Zenith.7301:

The ele rez utility has a significantly longer cast time, while IoL is instant. And when you play 40+ lv fractals where the grawl shaman landing an arrow on a downed player means death, then no wasting time to go rez or the offchance that an add will be killed is a stupid risk to take.

You keep bringing up that one fight. Wherelse is this supposed superiority? I think you’re just ignoring that it’s the most situational rez there is and rez skills are situational utilities in general. If anyone’s trolling, it’s you, grasping at straws, pointing to one fight (that I agreed on) that it might help. In group play, you have to be careful as it can waste the effort of others’ better rez skills and even then, you have to coordinate to make sure its efforts aren’t wasted by focusing a target down within the time limit or scurrying off somewhere safe to properly rez. It’s a skill better served as a slot for one of mesmers many other great (better) utilities.

Scenario,

Random PUG group for HotW path 1. No one on voice chat. Melee heavy team. No tactics or strategies given. Everyone just on autopilot.

A higher damage trait build but not full GC equipment (knights armour with melandru runes)

Objective

“our damage is crap because pets die all the time and thats 40% of our damage gone” There is always a pet alive for the entire dungeon. For damage calculations. Don’t be ignorant, add the damage from pet AND ranger for total effective damage.

AoE supression fire

In areas of the dungeon that had 2 or more mobs the Ranger would for the most part hit more then 1 target. Even with the auto attack spreading the damage to multiple mobs. First time trying sharpening stone with Barrage. I like it, but wasn’t built to make full use of it (absolutely no condition damage to make it worth taking)

Damage

When at effective range. The log bow crits on auto attack for 1.5k to 2k per shot on multiple targets. Add with pet also doing damage. Notice that I was using a ranged pet so their attack damage is low. This is not the Rangers damage but the added damage of the pet. This is not a scaled down dungeon so there will be no 300-400 damage per hit shots.

Once again this is not to showcase how good I am with the Ranger. I am a noob ranger. I know this. I am sure all of your who have played the Ranger for a very long time will be able to do far more damage. Are better with using pets. Actually use your elite skills when needed (even more damage!) and can figure out better builds and have the equipment for what is required to showcase Rangers FULL capabilities.

Bring the pain

All I see in those videos is proof that:

1. You’re not very good (At least you admit that)
2. Your ranger isn’t providing much ‘support’, ever.
3. Your damage is pretty terrible.

If you think you’re doing a lot of damage… well ignorance is bliss.

Neb.4170:

All I see in those videos is proof that:

1. You’re not very good (At least you admit that)
2. Your ranger isn’t providing much ‘support’, ever.
3. Your damage is pretty terrible.

If you think you’re doing a lot of damage… well ignorance is bliss.

1. Yeah well, not everyone who plays the game is. Perhaps in your fantasy world where everyone is oh so awesome. But reality? not everyone is.

2. Sustained damage support. Once again completely ignoring the fact that I specifically wrote it was to showcase pets staying alive in dungeons as the primary point and damage as the secondary point.

3. My damage is terrible compared to what? This isn’t a full GC build. The only damage booster would only be coming from the traits.

Are you seriously saying my damage is worse than this? http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dgQMIThg-oo

Just a few random videos from youtube

at least a ranger got a pretty nice survivability added to his range. makes most world bosses soloable but tedious. :/

his support is somewhat ok with the right setup.
with a red moa+jungle stalker+horn+AoE Heal = 6 stacks of might + a decent fury duration + a small heal and regeneration boon – for all nearby allies.
you can additionally weakening foes with a longbow.
i prefer a farn dog instead of a red moa…they’re just more cool and the regen buff does make a difference in the heat of battle.

a skilled ranger got enough survivability and pet control (yeah, i know, the pet AI is limited and your pet will die anyways sooner or later) to constantly deliver those boons.

it’s not that awesome but desireable and i hope more dungeon groups start to appreciate the ranger more…i mean i’m always the last one, who gets killed in a dungeon…a coincidence? (well maybe i just get bad groups all the time -_-)

give our pets more survivability, transfer some of his dmg to the actual ranger and give us the ability to revive our pets back.
also make spirits at least fun to play…just imagine the possibilitys of a decent spirit setup.

KensaiZen

I’ve figured out your issue. You are harping on; “pets die all the time”. Pets do not die all the time, but they do die frequently in higher level content, in Fractals, a place you seem to avoid. Could that be a lack of skill? Pets also die in WvW more than half the time.

You can not use old easy dungeons to prove a point. Please, learn the game, and show some videos of 62+ Fractals, and large WvW fights, where you’re pet managing enough to keep the pet alive, without making it useless.

Quit with these claims, that mean absolutely nothing.

That second video does a better job of showing your damage. It is better than the last video but I still saw some pretty low shots from the slow-firing longbow. There were some exceptional hits from it, but other than that it is still a very slow-firing weapon and that low speed has to be taken into account when factoring the damage. That is why it isn’t very good.

Kudos for keeping your pet alive. You actually made it “difficult” on yourself by actually taking a melee pet against the last boss. The rest of the time you did what has been common knowledge and simply used a ranged pet (I prefer the Devourers, but tomato tomato). It has to be taken into account, though, that you had two guardians in the group. Guardian’s can’t so much as go afk to pee without increasing the survivability of those around them, including your pet.

As far as the support you provided to the group, the others are correct, you didn’t provide crap for support. Even when you used spirits, they were out of range of the rest of your group.

And here is another fantastic example of HotW

Each time someone goes down… how much DPS do you think the group is doing? when someone drops, the group must stop and res that person. That is a total DPS drop to 0. The Ranger has a pet that can res whilst maintaining constant DPS. The Ranger has an elite that can do the exact same thing.

And now that it has been fixed. It is a guaranteed res with no danger to the rest of the team.

Oh wait nvm Im just being trolled. If I bring support, Im not doing damage. If im doing damage. Im not doing up support. If I do both then im not doing high support or damage. Its a no win scenario. How can you win against a troll? Silly me.

Sebrent.3625:

That second video does a better job of showing your damage. It is better than the last video but I still saw some pretty low shots from the slow-firing longbow. There were some exceptional hits from it, but other than that it is still a very slow-firing weapon and that low speed has to be taken into account when factoring the damage. That is why it isn’t very good.

Kudos for keeping your pet alive. You actually made it “difficult” on yourself by actually taking a melee pet against the last boss. The rest of the time you did what has been common knowledge and simply used a ranged pet (I prefer the Devourers, but tomato tomato). It has to be taken into account, though, that you had two guardians in the group. Guardian’s can’t so much as go afk to pee without increasing the survivability of those around them, including your pet.

As far as the support you provided to the group, the others are correct, you didn’t provide crap for support. Even when you used spirits, they were out of range of the rest of your group.

This wasn’t a vid to showcase the support capabilities. That one will come in due time. There wasn’t much point in doing support in HotW with 2 guardians on board.

KensaiZen.3740:

Neb.4170:

All I see in those videos is proof that:

1. You’re not very good (At least you admit that)
2. Your ranger isn’t providing much ‘support’, ever.
3. Your damage is pretty terrible.

If you think you’re doing a lot of damage… well ignorance is bliss.

1. Yeah well, not everyone who plays the game is. Perhaps in your fantasy world where everyone is oh so awesome. But reality? not everyone is.

2. Sustained damage support. Once again completely ignoring the fact that I specifically wrote it was to showcase pets staying alive in dungeons as the primary point and damage as the secondary point.

3. My damage is terrible compared to what? This isn’t a full GC build. The only damage booster would only be coming from the traits.

Are you seriously saying my damage is worse than this?

Just a few random videos from youtube

Are you seriously going to use videos that are 6 months old, where people didn’t have full exotics, and are utilizing a condition build to prove your damage is ok?

LadyLad.1389:

You can not use old easy dungeons to prove a point. Please, learn the game, and show some videos of 62+ Fractals, and large WvW fights, where you’re pet managing enough to keep the pet alive, without making it useless.

Fractals are hardly ‘new’ anyway but until they add about 5 more dungeons to fractals, I’m not going to consider that a pressing majority of the content, much less only lvl 40+ fractals were so few people actually bother.

LadyLad.1389:

KensaiZen

I’ve figured out your issue. You are harping on; “pets die all the time”. Pets do not die all the time, but they do die frequently in higher level content, in Fractals, a place you seem to avoid. Could that be a lack of skill? Pets also die in WvW more than half the time.

You can not use old easy dungeons to prove a point. Please, learn the game, and show some videos of 62+ Fractals, and large WvW fights, where you’re pet managing enough to keep the pet alive, without making it useless.

Quit with these claims, that mean absolutely nothing.

So your case for the Ranger being sub par is that the pets don’t stay alive in high level fractals? 1 part of the game that not a lot of people actually play. hmmm ok So the Entire class becomes fail because it doesn’t excel in one area of the game… So with this same logic the warrior must be a broken worthless class because they aren’t worth anything in Spvp.

There is no ranger in that last video … why am I supposed to watch it?

Search & Rescue is useful … except that it takes your pet (30-40% of your dps) out of the fight for a good while and possibly gets it killed.

• Search & Rescue – 90s (68s traited) cooldown and the above issues
• Glyph of Renewal – 165s (132s traited) cooldown, 4.25s cast, can full heal rez 1 or rez up to 3 allies
• Battle Standard – 240s (192s traited) cooldown, 2s cast, can rez entire party and provides Fury, Might, and Stability
• Signet of Undeath – 180s (144s traited) cooldown, 2s cast, can rez 3 party members, passive gives life force
• Signet of Mercy – 240s (192s traited) cooldown, 3.75s cast, can rez 1 party member, passive gives +healing
• Toss Elixir R – 120s (92.25s w/ 30 pts in Tools), 0.75s cast, can rez up to 5 party members, rezzing them in 5 seconds (20% per sec)
• Illusion of Life – 130s (104s traited), 0.75s cast, can rez entire party, though they will die if an enemy doesn’t die within the next 15s.

Not all of these are better than Search & Rescue, but many of them definitely are.

Search & Rescue:

• Pet can die
• Pet isn’t doing damage (-40% of your damage … though better than 100%)
• Is not instant
• Can be interrupted

KensaiZen.3740:

And here is another fantastic example of HotW

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6Fa6YvHZ9Q4

Each time someone goes down… how much DPS do you think the group is doing? when someone drops, the group must stop and res that person. That is a total DPS drop to 0. The Ranger has a pet that can res whilst maintaining constant DPS. The Ranger has an elite that can do the exact same thing.

And now that it has been fixed. It is a guaranteed res with no danger to the rest of the team.

Oh wait nvm Im just being trolled. If I bring support, Im not doing damage. If im doing damage. Im not doing up support. If I do both then im not doing high support or damage. Its a no win scenario. How can you win against a troll? Silly me.

You’re the one that said Rangers can bring it all rolled up into one package. A guardian can bring higher damage and more support. Hell my necro will bring higher damage and more support than you.

Just a tip, spec for pure glass cannon or you’re pretty much wasting a space with mediocre damage and lulzy support.

KensaiZen.3740:

And here is another fantastic example of HotW

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6Fa6YvHZ9Q4

Each time someone goes down… how much DPS do you think the group is doing? when someone drops, the group must stop and res that person. That is a total DPS drop to 0. The Ranger has a pet that can res whilst maintaining constant DPS. The Ranger has an elite that can do the exact same thing.

And now that it has been fixed. It is a guaranteed res with no danger to the rest of the team.

Oh wait nvm Im just being trolled. If I bring support, Im not doing damage. If im doing damage. Im not doing up support. If I do both then im not doing high support or damage. Its a no win scenario. How can you win against a troll? Silly me.

What you fail to realize, and I forgive you for it because you probably havn’t played high level content in any game, most importantly Guildwars 2 is that a solid build can fill several roles.

What do I mean?

Guardian pops a 15 second; “Save Yourselves”, and a “Hollowed Ground”, followed by a Warrior who pops; “For Great Justice”, while the Elementalist does his stuff, and so on…. After a certain point the Mesmer uses Signet of Inspiration, and doubles the duration on all boons everyone has.

It’s called boon stacking. Why is it important? Because the right group set up, which will not include a Ranger will place 25 stacks of Might on everyone in the group, for one minute, and can be maintained during boss fights, on top of having every other boon in the game for the fight, meaning those other support classes will outperform anything a Ranger can do at 1500 range, where he misses buffs.

YOU SHOULD NOT BE DYING IN THE OLD CONTENT. I don’t evne know why you are bringing anything like that up. We frequently do the old content with three people, so if you are dying in a full group, well I would probably practice more.

LadyLad.1389:

KensaiZen.3740:

Neb.4170:

All I see in those videos is proof that:

1. You’re not very good (At least you admit that)
2. Your ranger isn’t providing much ‘support’, ever.
3. Your damage is pretty terrible.

If you think you’re doing a lot of damage… well ignorance is bliss.

1. Yeah well, not everyone who plays the game is. Perhaps in your fantasy world where everyone is oh so awesome. But reality? not everyone is.

2. Sustained damage support. Once again completely ignoring the fact that I specifically wrote it was to showcase pets staying alive in dungeons as the primary point and damage as the secondary point.

3. My damage is terrible compared to what? This isn’t a full GC build. The only damage booster would only be coming from the traits.

Are you seriously saying my damage is worse than this?

Just a few random videos from youtube

Are you seriously going to use videos that are 6 months old, where people didn’t have full exotics, and are utilizing a condition build to prove your damage is ok?

This matters how? you can run HotW Naked right now. Why? because everyone has run it so many kitten times that equipment becomes irrelevant.

Your argument is weak.

KensaiZen.3740:

LadyLad.1389:

KensaiZen

I’ve figured out your issue. You are harping on; “pets die all the time”. Pets do not die all the time, but they do die frequently in higher level content, in Fractals, a place you seem to avoid. Could that be a lack of skill? Pets also die in WvW more than half the time.

You can not use old easy dungeons to prove a point. Please, learn the game, and show some videos of 62+ Fractals, and large WvW fights, where you’re pet managing enough to keep the pet alive, without making it useless.

Quit with these claims, that mean absolutely nothing.

So your case for the Ranger being sub par is that the pets don’t stay alive in high level fractals? 1 part of the game that not a lot of people actually play. hmmm ok So the Entire class becomes fail because it doesn’t excel in one area of the game… So with this same logic the warrior must be a broken worthless class because they aren’t worth anything in Spvp.

I feel like I’m trying to explain something to my children.

Where does the Ranger struggle?
- 62+ Fractals
- World vs World, in large fights where a lot of AEs are firing.
- World vs World, in/out of keeps during a siege, where half their damage can’t get to anyone.
- World vs World, in/out of towers during a siege, where half their damage can’t get to anyone.

No one cares about the easy content, no one. A game has to be balanced at the higher tiers. I could run naked through Orr on any toon, and kill mobs in pairs, but this doesn’t make the class; “good” by any means.

Where it matters most are those instances where skill matters. If you don’t have the skill to do the higher content, how can those of us who do it on a daily basis take anything you say seriously, when you can’t possibly understand?

KensaiZen.3740:

LadyLad.1389:

KensaiZen.3740:

Neb.4170:

All I see in those videos is proof that:

1. You’re not very good (At least you admit that)
2. Your ranger isn’t providing much ‘support’, ever.
3. Your damage is pretty terrible.

If you think you’re doing a lot of damage… well ignorance is bliss.

1. Yeah well, not everyone who plays the game is. Perhaps in your fantasy world where everyone is oh so awesome. But reality? not everyone is.

2. Sustained damage support. Once again completely ignoring the fact that I specifically wrote it was to showcase pets staying alive in dungeons as the primary point and damage as the secondary point.

3. My damage is terrible compared to what? This isn’t a full GC build. The only damage booster would only be coming from the traits.

Are you seriously saying my damage is worse than this?

Just a few random videos from youtube

Are you seriously going to use videos that are 6 months old, where people didn’t have full exotics, and are utilizing a condition build to prove your damage is ok?

This matters how? you can run HotW Naked right now. Why? because everyone has run it so many kitten times that equipment becomes irrelevant.

Your argument is weak.

You just pretty much used my argument. Thanks for finally understanding why what you are posting does not matter.

Keep in mind, I do not play the Ranger. I’m the better player out there who makes groups, and refuses to take Rangers because they weaken my group. My interest is in your proof that the Ranger doesn’t need help that more skilled players believe it does.