Guild Wars 2

So I mentioned this thread idea in another thread which is starting to slow down now.

In the hopes of providing another constructive outlet for people to release their frustrations, here we go:

The idea is to find other skills/traits that are the same/similar to what Rangers have and posting them together for us to compare. This allows us to better see if the cost/effect ratios of each are proportionate or disproportionate to each another.

NOTICE: We are not talking about the Ranger being like other classes. We are talking about pointing out possible imbalances in cost/effect ratios amongst classes. I.E. if I have to pay more, I should get more. If I have to pay less, I should get less. Either there, or elsewhere.

NOTICE: if you are going to reply about a specific entry already in the list, please add the name of it to the top of your post before mentioning it. This will help keep the conversation “clean” since no one has time to slowly read through everything everywhere on the forums.

Thanks :-)

Traits: Shots Pierce and Skills Recharge 20% Faster

• Ranger Longbow: 40 trait points and 2 Major Master Traits
  • 20 pts in Marksmanship
  • Piercing Arrows - All arrow attacks pierce targets.
  • Quick Draw - Shortbow and longbow skills recharge 20% faster.
• Engineer Pistol: 30 trait points, 1 Major Master Trait, and 1 Major Grandmaster Trait
  • 30 pts in Firearms
  • Hair Trigger - Rifle, pistol, and harpoon gun skills recharge 20% faster.
  • Coated Bullets - Pistol shots pierce.
• Warrior Rifle:20 trait points, 1 Major Master Trait
  • 20 pts in Arms
  • Crack Shot - Rifle and harpoon gun shots pierce. Rifle and harpoon gun skills recharge 20% faster.

Traits: Increased Range, Shots Pierce, and Skills Recharge 20% Faster

• Ranger Longbow: 50 trait points, 2 Major Master Trait, 1 Major Grandmaster Trait
  • 30 pts in Marksmanship
  • Piercing Arrows - All arrow attacks pierce targets.
  • Eagle Eye - Increases longbow and harpoon gun range. Increases longbow and harpoon gun damage by 5%.
  • 20 pts in Skirmishing
  • Quick Draw - Shortbow and longbow skills recharge 20% faster.
• Engineer Pistol: 30 trait points, 1 Major Adept Trait, 1 Major Master Trait, and 1 Major Grandmaster Trait
  • 30 pts in Firearms
  • Rifled Barrels - Improves rifle, pistol, harpoon gun, and elixir gun range.
  • Hair Trigger - Rifle, pistol, and harpoon gun skills recharge 20% faster.
  • Coated Bullets - Pistol shots pierce.

Skills: Invulnerability

• Ranger: Protect Me
  • 6s & 60s to 48s cd (10% 12.5% up-time), Pet can die from it
• Ranger: Signet of Stone w/ Trait (Signet of the Beastmaster)
  • 6s & 120s to 96 scd (5% to 6.25% up-time), requires 30 trait points and a Major Grandmaster Trait
• Elementalist: Obsidian Flesh
  • 4s & 50s to 40s cd (8% to 10% up-time)
• Elementalist: Mist Form
  • 3s & 75s to 60s cd (4% to 5% up-time), stunbreaker
• Warrior: Endure Pain
  • 5s & 90s cd (5.5% up-time), stunbreaker
• Warrior: Defy Pain
  • 5s & 90s internal cd (5.5% up-time), auto-proc, 30 trait points and 1 Major Grandmaster Trait
• Engineer: Elixir S
  • 3s & 60s to 48s cd (5% to 6.25% up-time), stunbreaker
• Engineer: Self-Regulating Defenses
  • 3s & 60s internal cd (5% up-time), auto-proc
• Mesmer: Distortion
  • 1s to 4s & 60s to 46.25s cd (1.6% to 8.6% up-time), requires illusion for greater duration
• Mesmer: Blurred Frenzy
  • 2s & 10s to 8s cd (20% to 25% up-time), inflicts damage, immobilized

Skills: Toughness/Damage Mitigation from Signet

• Ranger: Signet of Stone - Gives player 35 toughness at level 80. Gives the pet 120 toughness at level 80.
• Guardian: Signet of Judgement - Reduces incoming damage by 10%
• Warrior: Dolyak Signet - Improves toughness by 10 + character level
• Elementalist: Signet of Earth - Increases toughness by 10 + character level

Traits: +Damage Per Boons

• Ranger: 25 Trait Points – Bountiful Hunter - You and your pet deal 5% more damage while you have a boon.
  • +5% for pet if pet has a boon. +5% for ranger if ranger has a boon.
• Elementalist: 25 Trait Points, Bountiful Power - Deal 2% more damage for each boon on you.
• Engineer: 25 Trait Points, Energy Conversion Matrix - Deal 1% extra damage for each boon on you.
• Warrior: 10 Trait Points, Major Adept Trait, Empowered - Increases damage by 2% for each unique boon.

Traits: Condition Removal from Dodge

• Ranger: 30 Trait Points, Major Grandmaster Trait, Evasive Purity - Dodging removes blind and poison from you.
• Elementalist: 20 Trait Points, Major Master Trait, Stop Drop and Roll - Dodge rolling removes burning and chilled.
• Elementalist: 30 Trait Points, Major Grandmaster Trait, Evasive Arcana - Create an attunement-based spell at the end of your dodge. Each spell can be triggered once every 10 seconds.
  • Fire: Flame Burst
  • *Water: Cleansing Wave - Heal yourself and nearby allies, curing a condition.
  • Air: Blinding Flash
  • Earth: Churning Earth
• Thief: 20 Trait Points, Major Master Trait, Fleet of Foot - Dodging removes cripple and weakness from you.

Traits: +Damage with Full Endurance

• Elementalist: 25 Trait Points, Enduring Damage - Damage increases by 10% when endurance is full.
• Engineer: 25 Trait Points, Enduring Damage - Damage increases by 10% when endurance is full.
• Ranger: 10 Trait Points, Major Adept Trait, Steady Focus - Damage increases by 10% when endurance is full.
  • Ranger pet is unaffected so could be equated as less than 10% since a pet is supposed to be a decent % of a Ranger’s overall damage.

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Reserving Space – I’m done reserving space, ladies and gentlemen, so let’s get started!

Yes I mostly use the longbow for its 1500 range, but I’m basically forced to put 50 trait points into it to grab all its benefits. 30 points in Marksmanship to get both the Master runes (1500 range and piercing arrows) and 20 points in Skirmishing to get 20% cooldown reduction.

Note, I have to go 30 points into Marksmanship, but not for any of the grandmaster runes. In fact, I can’t get any of the grandmaster runes, because I have to get two Master runes.

And then, when my build already has piercing arrows and 20% cooldown reduction for the shortbow, I’m basically forced to pair it with a shortbow. Not forced, but it would be pretty silly not to.

So that’s most of my build because I want to trait for the longbow. I only have 20 trait points left to spend on other things.

I’m not sure what a good solution would be. I do like how these traits also benefit the shortbow and the speargun. But that also means I have to use the longbow in combination with the shortbow and the speargun.

Or just skip the 20% cooldown reduction

KensaiZen.3740:

Or just skip the 20% cooldown reduction

You really want it on a longbow though I think, shortening those last 3 skills on the longbow seems like mandatory for it to work well, atleast to me (I don’t use longbow often)

Sebrent.3625:

Traits: Shots Pierce and Skills Recharge 20% Faster

• Ranger Longbow: 40 trait points and 2 Major Master Traits
  • 20 pts in Marksmanship
  • Piercing Arrows - All arrow attacks pierce targets.
  • Quick Draw - Shortbow and longbow skills recharge 20% faster.
• Engineer Pistol: 30 trait points, 1 Major Master Trait, and 1 Major Grandmaster Trait
  • 30 pts in Firearms
  • Hair Trigger - Rifle, pistol, and harpoon gun skills recharge 20% faster.
  • Coated Bullets - Pistol shots pierce.
• Warrior Rifle:20 trait points, 1 Major Master Trait
  • 20 pts in Arms
  • Crack Shot - Rifle and harpoon gun shots pierce. Rifle and harpoon gun skills recharge 20% faster.

As a Ranger who only uses Longbow in certain situations(Zergs and Jumping Puzzles only). I don’t see the need to have Quick Draw traited. So now I see the comparison as this:

Traits: Shots Pierce

• Ranger Shortbow: 20 trait points and 1 Major Master Trait
  • 20 pts in Marksmanship
  • Piercing Arrows - All arrow attacks pierce targets.
• Engineer Pistol: 30 trait points, 1 Major Grandmaster Trait
  • 30 pts in Firearms
  • Coated Bullets - Pistol shots pierce.
• Warrior Rifle:20 trait points, 1 Major Master Trait
  • 20 pts in Arms
  • Crack Shot - Rifle and harpoon gun shots pierce. Rifle and harpoon gun skills recharge 20% faster.

Basically, in this scenario, the Ranger doesn’t get the short end of the stick IMHO.

ItIsFinished.9462:

Sebrent.3625:

Traits: Shots Pierce and Skills Recharge 20% Faster

• Ranger Longbow: 40 trait points and 2 Major Master Traits
  • 20 pts in Marksmanship
  • Piercing Arrows - All arrow attacks pierce targets.
  • Quick Draw - Shortbow and longbow skills recharge 20% faster.
• Engineer Pistol: 30 trait points, 1 Major Master Trait, and 1 Major Grandmaster Trait
  • 30 pts in Firearms
  • Hair Trigger - Rifle, pistol, and harpoon gun skills recharge 20% faster.
  • Coated Bullets - Pistol shots pierce.
• Warrior Rifle:20 trait points, 1 Major Master Trait
  • 20 pts in Arms
  • Crack Shot - Rifle and harpoon gun shots pierce. Rifle and harpoon gun skills recharge 20% faster.

As a Ranger who only uses Longbow in certain situations(Zergs and Jumping Puzzles only). I don’t see the need to have Quick Draw traited. So now I see the comparison as this:

Traits: Shots Pierce

• Ranger Shortbow: 20 trait points and 1 Major Master Trait
  • 20 pts in Marksmanship
  • Piercing Arrows - All arrow attacks pierce targets.
• Engineer Pistol: 30 trait points, 1 Major Grandmaster Trait
  • 30 pts in Firearms
  • Coated Bullets - Pistol shots pierce.
• Warrior Rifle:20 trait points, 1 Major Master Trait
  • 20 pts in Arms
  • Crack Shot - Rifle and harpoon gun shots pierce. Rifle and harpoon gun skills recharge 20% faster.

Basically, in this scenario, the Ranger doesn’t get the short end of the stick IMHO.

That’s a fair way to look at it. However, you are still getting the short end of the stick because you’re ignoring the fact that the Warrior is getting that 20% reduction.

This isn’t surprising as the majority seem to agree that the warrior is currently in a good place while the engineer is amongst the classes that need some more love.

Anyone else going to actually add to the list or am I going to have to slowly do it? :-p

Sebrent.3625:

ItIsFinished.9462:

Sebrent.3625:

Traits: Shots Pierce and Skills Recharge 20% Faster

• Ranger Longbow: 40 trait points and 2 Major Master Traits
  • 20 pts in Marksmanship
  • Piercing Arrows - All arrow attacks pierce targets.
  • Quick Draw - Shortbow and longbow skills recharge 20% faster.
• Engineer Pistol: 30 trait points, 1 Major Master Trait, and 1 Major Grandmaster Trait
  • 30 pts in Firearms
  • Hair Trigger - Rifle, pistol, and harpoon gun skills recharge 20% faster.
  • Coated Bullets - Pistol shots pierce.
• Warrior Rifle:20 trait points, 1 Major Master Trait
  • 20 pts in Arms
  • Crack Shot - Rifle and harpoon gun shots pierce. Rifle and harpoon gun skills recharge 20% faster.

As a Ranger who only uses Longbow in certain situations(Zergs and Jumping Puzzles only). I don’t see the need to have Quick Draw traited. So now I see the comparison as this:

Traits: Shots Pierce

• Ranger Shortbow: 20 trait points and 1 Major Master Trait
  • 20 pts in Marksmanship
  • Piercing Arrows - All arrow attacks pierce targets.
• Engineer Pistol: 30 trait points, 1 Major Grandmaster Trait
  • 30 pts in Firearms
  • Coated Bullets - Pistol shots pierce.
• Warrior Rifle:20 trait points, 1 Major Master Trait
  • 20 pts in Arms
  • Crack Shot - Rifle and harpoon gun shots pierce. Rifle and harpoon gun skills recharge 20% faster.

Basically, in this scenario, the Ranger doesn’t get the short end of the stick IMHO.

That’s a fair way to look at it. However, you are still getting the short end of the stick because you’re ignoring the fact that the Warrior is getting that 20% reduction.

This isn’t surprising as the majority seem to agree that the warrior is currently in a good place while the engineer is amongst the classes that need some more love.

When you take all 3 into consideration for this example…the engi gets the short end of the stick.

ItIsFinished.9462:

When you take all 3 into consideration for this example…the engi gets the short end of the stick.

When you only want piercing on your ranged weapon, yes, the Engineer gets the shortest end of the stick.

The ranger still gets a short end compared to the warrior.

In all the other scenarios, the ranger gets the shortest end of the stick. So 1/3 Engineer is worst off, then Ranger, and Warrior is great. 2/3 Ranger is worst off.

ItIsFinished.9462:

Sebrent.3625:

Traits: Shots Pierce and Skills Recharge 20% Faster

• Ranger Longbow: 40 trait points and 2 Major Master Traits
  • 20 pts in Marksmanship
  • Piercing Arrows - All arrow attacks pierce targets.
  • Quick Draw - Shortbow and longbow skills recharge 20% faster.
• Engineer Pistol: 30 trait points, 1 Major Master Trait, and 1 Major Grandmaster Trait
  • 30 pts in Firearms
  • Hair Trigger - Rifle, pistol, and harpoon gun skills recharge 20% faster.
  • Coated Bullets - Pistol shots pierce.
• Warrior Rifle:20 trait points, 1 Major Master Trait
  • 20 pts in Arms
  • Crack Shot - Rifle and harpoon gun shots pierce. Rifle and harpoon gun skills recharge 20% faster.

As a Ranger who only uses Longbow in certain situations(Zergs and Jumping Puzzles only). I don’t see the need to have Quick Draw traited. So now I see the comparison as this:

Traits: Shots Pierce

• Ranger Shortbow: 20 trait points and 1 Major Master Trait
  • 20 pts in Marksmanship
  • Piercing Arrows - All arrow attacks pierce targets.
• Engineer Pistol: 30 trait points, 1 Major Grandmaster Trait
  • 30 pts in Firearms
  • Coated Bullets - Pistol shots pierce.
• Warrior Rifle:20 trait points, 1 Major Master Trait
  • 20 pts in Arms
  • Crack Shot - Rifle and harpoon gun shots pierce. Rifle and harpoon gun skills recharge 20% faster.

Basically, in this scenario, the Ranger doesn’t get the short end of the stick IMHO.

Either you compare both of them or just the same one, this way seems like very biased view to me you’re just ignoring that engineer gets 20% reduction with only 10points now.

Sebrent.3625:

ItIsFinished.9462:

When you take all 3 into consideration for this example…the engi gets the short end of the stick.

When you only want piercing on your ranged weapon, yes, the Engineer gets the shortest end of the stick.

The ranger still gets a short end compared to the warrior.

In all the other scenarios, the ranger gets the shortest end of the stick. So 1/3 Engineer is worst off, then Ranger, and Warrior is great. 2/3 Ranger is worst off.

Why are you only comparing the warrior and ranger only in this situation? Your example has 3 classes in it.

Manekk.6981:

ItIsFinished.9462:

Sebrent.3625:

Traits: Shots Pierce and Skills Recharge 20% Faster

• Ranger Longbow: 40 trait points and 2 Major Master Traits
  • 20 pts in Marksmanship
  • Piercing Arrows - All arrow attacks pierce targets.
  • Quick Draw - Shortbow and longbow skills recharge 20% faster.
• Engineer Pistol: 30 trait points, 1 Major Master Trait, and 1 Major Grandmaster Trait
  • 30 pts in Firearms
  • Hair Trigger - Rifle, pistol, and harpoon gun skills recharge 20% faster.
  • Coated Bullets - Pistol shots pierce.
• Warrior Rifle:20 trait points, 1 Major Master Trait
  • 20 pts in Arms
  • Crack Shot - Rifle and harpoon gun shots pierce. Rifle and harpoon gun skills recharge 20% faster.

As a Ranger who only uses Longbow in certain situations(Zergs and Jumping Puzzles only). I don’t see the need to have Quick Draw traited. So now I see the comparison as this:

Traits: Shots Pierce

• Ranger Shortbow: 20 trait points and 1 Major Master Trait
  • 20 pts in Marksmanship
  • Piercing Arrows - All arrow attacks pierce targets.
• Engineer Pistol: 30 trait points, 1 Major Grandmaster Trait
  • 30 pts in Firearms
  • Coated Bullets - Pistol shots pierce.
• Warrior Rifle:20 trait points, 1 Major Master Trait
  • 20 pts in Arms
  • Crack Shot - Rifle and harpoon gun shots pierce. Rifle and harpoon gun skills recharge 20% faster.

Basically, in this scenario, the Ranger doesn’t get the short end of the stick IMHO.

Either you compare both of them or just the same one, this way seems like very biased view to me you’re just ignoring that engineer gets 20% reduction with only 10points now.

I’m talking about Piercing Arrows/Shots between the 3 classes. That’s it.

In my scenario, the warrior wins because it has the added bonus of 20% reduction cooldown. But certainly the ranger doesn’t get the short end of the stick because engi takes 30 points to match the warrior and ranger.

That’s fine. I’m talking about traits and trait points overall.
With their current layout, if all you want is piercing shots, then you are correct that Warrior beats out both the Engineer and the Ranger while the Ranger beats out only the Engineer.

If you want any of those other traits though, the Ranger is beat out by the Engineer and the Warrior.

The point is the layout of the traits and how much you get from certain traits.

The warrior gets for 20 points and a single Major Master Trait what it takes the Engineer 30 points and 2 traits and the Ranger 40 points and 2 traits to gain. That’s a large difference.

Sebrent.3625:

That’s fine. I’m talking about traits and trait points overall.
With their current layout, if all you want is piercing shots, then you are correct that Warrior beats out both the Engineer and the Ranger while the Ranger beats out only the Engineer.

If you want any of those other traits though, the Ranger is beat out by the Engineer and the Warrior.

The point is the layout of the traits and how much you get from certain traits.

---

The warrior gets for 20 points and a single Major Master Trait what it takes the Engineer 30 points and 2 traits and the Ranger 40 points and 2 traits to gain. That’s a large difference.

Took me a few posts to get my point through, but oy vey, its all good.

You got it through the first time. I think you missed mine ;-)

ItIsFinished.9462:

Sebrent.3625:

ItIsFinished.9462:

Sebrent.3625:

Traits: Shots Pierce and Skills Recharge 20% Faster

• Ranger Longbow: 40 trait points and 2 Major Master Traits
  • 20 pts in Marksmanship
  • Piercing Arrows - All arrow attacks pierce targets.
  • Quick Draw - Shortbow and longbow skills recharge 20% faster.
• Engineer Pistol: 30 trait points, 1 Major Master Trait, and 1 Major Grandmaster Trait
  • 30 pts in Firearms
  • Hair Trigger - Rifle, pistol, and harpoon gun skills recharge 20% faster.
  • Coated Bullets - Pistol shots pierce.
• Warrior Rifle:20 trait points, 1 Major Master Trait
  • 20 pts in Arms
  • Crack Shot - Rifle and harpoon gun shots pierce. Rifle and harpoon gun skills recharge 20% faster.

As a Ranger who only uses Longbow in certain situations(Zergs and Jumping Puzzles only). I don’t see the need to have Quick Draw traited. So now I see the comparison as this:

Traits: Shots Pierce

• Ranger Shortbow: 20 trait points and 1 Major Master Trait
  • 20 pts in Marksmanship
  • Piercing Arrows - All arrow attacks pierce targets.
• Engineer Pistol: 30 trait points, 1 Major Grandmaster Trait
  • 30 pts in Firearms
  • Coated Bullets - Pistol shots pierce.
• Warrior Rifle:20 trait points, 1 Major Master Trait
  • 20 pts in Arms
  • Crack Shot - Rifle and harpoon gun shots pierce. Rifle and harpoon gun skills recharge 20% faster.

Basically, in this scenario, the Ranger doesn’t get the short end of the stick IMHO.

That’s a fair way to look at it. However, you are still getting the short end of the stick because you’re ignoring the fact that the Warrior is getting that 20% reduction.

This isn’t surprising as the majority seem to agree that the warrior is currently in a good place while the engineer is amongst the classes that need some more love.

When you take all 3 into consideration for this example…the engi gets the short end of the stick.

All 3 effects or all 3 classes? regardless I don’t know how you can say this as the engineer has all 3 traits in the same line and has to spend the least ammount of trait points to pick up all 3, that’s not to say they don’t need some love but based on these 3 specific effects alone they are certainly coming out ontop of the ranger and possibly even the warrior.

Sebrent.3625:

You got it through the first time. I think you missed mine ;-)

Nope. Your point was understood when I decided to take a few minutes out of my real life job(zzzz) and make a comparison using a situation in my current build scenario. Adding to your thread, as asked by you – to the community.

Sebrent.3625:

When you only want piercing on your ranged weapon, yes, the Engineer gets the shortest end of the stick.

The ranger still gets a short end compared to the warrior.

In all the other scenarios, the ranger gets the shortest end of the stick. So 1/3 Engineer is worst off, then Ranger, and Warrior is great. 2/3 Ranger is worst off.

Sebrent.3625:

That’s fine. I’m talking about traits and trait points overall.
With their current layout, if all you want is piercing shots, then you are correct that Warrior beats out both the Engineer and the Ranger while the Ranger beats out only the Engineer.

If you want any of those other traits though, the Ranger is beat out by the Engineer and the Warrior.

The point is the layout of the traits and how much you get from certain traits.

---

The warrior gets for 20 points and a single Major Master Trait what it takes the Engineer 30 points and 2 traits and the Ranger 40 points and 2 traits to gain. That’s a large difference.

I said the same thing these two times. You accepted it the second time :-)

Anyways … let’s back to the OP please, guys and gals.

Also, I’m a little happier with Protect Me after comparing the up-times of the various invulnerabilities. I think the pet being able to die from it may be the balancing factor there … will require more testing though.

Manekk.6981:

ItIsFinished.9462:

Sebrent.3625:

ItIsFinished.9462:

Sebrent.3625:

Traits: Shots Pierce and Skills Recharge 20% Faster

• Ranger Longbow: 40 trait points and 2 Major Master Traits
  • 20 pts in Marksmanship
  • Piercing Arrows - All arrow attacks pierce targets.
  • Quick Draw - Shortbow and longbow skills recharge 20% faster.
• Engineer Pistol: 30 trait points, 1 Major Master Trait, and 1 Major Grandmaster Trait
  • 30 pts in Firearms
  • Hair Trigger - Rifle, pistol, and harpoon gun skills recharge 20% faster.
  • Coated Bullets - Pistol shots pierce.
• Warrior Rifle:20 trait points, 1 Major Master Trait
  • 20 pts in Arms
  • Crack Shot - Rifle and harpoon gun shots pierce. Rifle and harpoon gun skills recharge 20% faster.

As a Ranger who only uses Longbow in certain situations(Zergs and Jumping Puzzles only). I don’t see the need to have Quick Draw traited. So now I see the comparison as this:

Traits: Shots Pierce

• Ranger Shortbow: 20 trait points and 1 Major Master Trait
  • 20 pts in Marksmanship
  • Piercing Arrows - All arrow attacks pierce targets.
• Engineer Pistol: 30 trait points, 1 Major Grandmaster Trait
  • 30 pts in Firearms
  • Coated Bullets - Pistol shots pierce.
• Warrior Rifle:20 trait points, 1 Major Master Trait
  • 20 pts in Arms
  • Crack Shot - Rifle and harpoon gun shots pierce. Rifle and harpoon gun skills recharge 20% faster.

Basically, in this scenario, the Ranger doesn’t get the short end of the stick IMHO.

That’s a fair way to look at it. However, you are still getting the short end of the stick because you’re ignoring the fact that the Warrior is getting that 20% reduction.

This isn’t surprising as the majority seem to agree that the warrior is currently in a good place while the engineer is amongst the classes that need some more love.

When you take all 3 into consideration for this example…the engi gets the short end of the stick.

All 3 effects or all 3 classes? regardless I don’t know how you can say this as the engineer has all 3 traits in the same line and has to spend the least ammount of trait points to pick up all 3, that’s not to say they don’t need some love but based on these 3 specific effects alone they are certainly coming out ontop of the ranger and possibly even the warrior.

All 3 classes. And my point is that it takes 30 skill points to get Piercing Shots with the engi, while only taking 20 skill points to get Piercing Arrows for the Ranger…thats all I’m saying. Lay down your pitch fork bro..

Natures Bounty: increases damage for you and your pet by 5% when you have a boon (applies individually IE: pet has boon pet does 5% more, ranger has boon, ranger does 5% more). 25pts, minor.

Engi 25pts alchemy, 1% dmg increase per boon

Ele 25pts water 2% damage per boon.

Ranger, 30pts NM, grandmaster trait, dodge roll removes poison and blind.

Thief, 20pts Acrobatics, dodge roll removes weakness and cripple

Ele 20pts water, dodge roll removes burning and chill

Hmmm… Something seems off here….

So, looking at the +toughness signets, Ranger is getting almost 30% less toughness on their self than the other classes. Even worse when compared to the Guardian as gw2buildcraft.com shows +202 Toughness giving +9.91% damage mitigation.

Sebrent.3625:

So, looking at the +toughness signets, Ranger is getting almost 30% less toughness on their self than the other classes. Even worse when compared to the Guardian as gw2buildcraft.com shows +202 Toughness giving +9.91% damage mitigation.

Signets are more for the pet than the ranger with the exception of Signet of Renewal, I know our pet gets a better effect from each signet (other than hunt now) than the ranger does.

PS: guardian signet is literally a 10% less damage cut, it does not boost toughness

ItIsFinished.9462:

Manekk.6981:

ItIsFinished.9462:

Sebrent.3625:

ItIsFinished.9462:

Sebrent.3625:

Traits: Shots Pierce and Skills Recharge 20% Faster

• Ranger Longbow: 40 trait points and 2 Major Master Traits
  • 20 pts in Marksmanship
  • Piercing Arrows - All arrow attacks pierce targets.
  • Quick Draw - Shortbow and longbow skills recharge 20% faster.
• Engineer Pistol: 30 trait points, 1 Major Master Trait, and 1 Major Grandmaster Trait
  • 30 pts in Firearms
  • Hair Trigger - Rifle, pistol, and harpoon gun skills recharge 20% faster.
  • Coated Bullets - Pistol shots pierce.
• Warrior Rifle:20 trait points, 1 Major Master Trait
  • 20 pts in Arms
  • Crack Shot - Rifle and harpoon gun shots pierce. Rifle and harpoon gun skills recharge 20% faster.

As a Ranger who only uses Longbow in certain situations(Zergs and Jumping Puzzles only). I don’t see the need to have Quick Draw traited. So now I see the comparison as this:

Traits: Shots Pierce

• Ranger Shortbow: 20 trait points and 1 Major Master Trait
  • 20 pts in Marksmanship
  • Piercing Arrows - All arrow attacks pierce targets.
• Engineer Pistol: 30 trait points, 1 Major Grandmaster Trait
  • 30 pts in Firearms
  • Coated Bullets - Pistol shots pierce.
• Warrior Rifle:20 trait points, 1 Major Master Trait
  • 20 pts in Arms
  • Crack Shot - Rifle and harpoon gun shots pierce. Rifle and harpoon gun skills recharge 20% faster.

Basically, in this scenario, the Ranger doesn’t get the short end of the stick IMHO.

That’s a fair way to look at it. However, you are still getting the short end of the stick because you’re ignoring the fact that the Warrior is getting that 20% reduction.

This isn’t surprising as the majority seem to agree that the warrior is currently in a good place while the engineer is amongst the classes that need some more love.

When you take all 3 into consideration for this example…the engi gets the short end of the stick.

All 3 effects or all 3 classes? regardless I don’t know how you can say this as the engineer has all 3 traits in the same line and has to spend the least ammount of trait points to pick up all 3, that’s not to say they don’t need some love but based on these 3 specific effects alone they are certainly coming out ontop of the ranger and possibly even the warrior.

All 3 classes. And my point is that it takes 30 skill points to get Piercing Shots with the engi, while only taking 20 skill points to get Piercing Arrows for the Ranger…thats all I’m saying. Lay down your pitch fork bro..

I don’t have no pitchforks out just pointing out it’s a little flawed to compare it that way and ignore that the engineer can get all 3 traits for 30points and not just piercing and conclude they get the short end of the stick.

Sebrent.3625:

That’s fine. I’m talking about traits and trait points overall.
With their current layout, if all you want is piercing shots, then you are correct that Warrior beats out both the Engineer and the Ranger while the Ranger beats out only the Engineer.

If you want any of those other traits though, the Ranger is beat out by the Engineer and the Warrior.

The point is the layout of the traits and how much you get from certain traits.

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The warrior gets for 20 points and a single Major Master Trait what it takes the Engineer 30 points and 2 traits and the Ranger 40 points and 2 traits to gain. That’s a large difference.

There’s another little detail you can look at too: overall benefit of the traits/points.

The engineer uses that trait to have a grand total of 2 skills on their 1 weapon to pierce targets.

Ranger gets 2 weapons, both terrestrial, with 4 skills each that now pierce with that one trait.

Warrior gets 2 weapons, one terrestrial and one aquatic, with 5 skills across on each weapon that now pierce as well as recharge faster.

The +dmg boons really only highlights how the engineer is getting screwed over. With 2 boons or less, the Ranger beats out the Elementalist. With 3 boons or more, the Elementalist wins.

However, if you look at how many boons the Elementalist can keep 100% up-time on (6), then it becomes a comparison of +5% to +12% which is ridiculous as it is more than twice and done by simpling button mashing attunements (might, swiftness, regen, protection, and fury) and attacking (vigor).

The dodge roll comparison is good. Nice find.

But why, Durz. Why should we only get +30 toughness from a signet when everyone else is getting 3 times that much or more? The pet is a part of us. Why not just the same toughness for both of us?

Sebrent.3625:

The +dmg boons really only highlights how the engineer is getting screwed over. With 2 boons or less, the Ranger beats out the Elementalist. With 3 boons or more, the Elementalist wins.

However, if you look at how many boons the Elementalist can keep 100% up-time on (6), then it becomes a comparison of +5% to +12% which is ridiculous as it is more than twice and done by simpling button mashing attunements (might, swiftness, regen, protection, and fury) and attacking (vigor).

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The dodge roll comparison is good. Nice find.

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But why, Durz. Why should we only get +30 toughness from a signet when everyone else is getting 3 times that much or more? The pet is a part of us. Why not just the same toughness for both of us?

This post is littered with so many false statements and lies I don’t even know where to begin.

Did read through all the following posts, but you missed Warrior Major trait Empowered in the Tactics line, 2% damage boost per boon.

Sebrent.3625:

But why, Durz. Why should we only get +30 toughness from a signet when everyone else is getting 3 times that much or more? The pet is a part of us. Why not just the same toughness for both of us?

I think by default the Rangers Signets should affect both the pet and the Ranger without any trait points. That’s one reason why the Ranger loses big time when it comes to invulnerability and Signet of Stone compared to the other classes.

Sebrent.3625:

Skills: Invulnerability

Feels rather balanced to me. I think Elementalist gets great invulnerability options because they also have the lowest armor and HP. Mist Form is really the hallmark of their invulnerability but at the cost of their inability to initiate new actions. Obsidian Flesh is an amazing skill, but also lock you into Focus off-hand which is a purely defensive weapon so it’s not like you’ll be raining down hell from afar or blasting faces off close up with this skill.

Warrior really has lackluster options here especially compared to Ranger, IMO. The only saving grace is Endure Pain is also a stunbreaker, but then Signet of Stone/Obsidian Flesh are instant so you can cast them while stunned.

Skills: Toughness/Damage Mitigation from Signet

Can’t speak on Guardian Front, but on Warrior the skill is a joke. There’s no reason to have Dolyak signet on for extra toughness since it’s so minor and there’s no reason to have it for Stability since Balance Stance last longer and recharges faster and breaks stuns. Relatively, there is no opportunity cost for this skill unless you’re stacking signets for other traits.

For elementalist…the passive is not worth anything and the immobilize is only useful if you need an immobilize you can’t get from your normal skills/traits. There are traits that let your AoEs immobilize or your arcane skills to immobilize or various skills in earth to immobilize. Again, this seems only useful if you happen to want signet specific extras like auras with sig use.

Ranger, IMO, have some of the better signets. They have passable passives (some crappy though) and great active abilities. These are actually worth slotting and you can trait them to work on yourself.

Sebrent.3625:

Traits: +Damage Per Boons

Warriors Also have Empowered.

@jpnova: thank you, added it.

@ItIsFinished: I agree that Ranger signets should affect both by default. It’d also be nice if they affected them equally since the pet isn’t really a tank since this game “did away with the holy trinity”. I think the current incarnation is a Freudian Slip by the developers where that holy trinity mindset with pet classes found its way into the game.

@Scootabuser: if you’re going to make such a claim, you need to back it up. Otherwise, see the door, please. Since 80 elementalist is one of my characters, I’m well aware of how easy it is to keep up 6 boons. There are also plenty of videos showcasing this.

Check that out as he has 4 to 7 boons throughout his fights (dropping below 4 out of combat) so has +8% to +14% damage.

The dodge roll information is also correct as is the signet.

Back up your claims or shut it and get out. I’m tired of your kind. When a class has something that is OP, be honest and say it. When a class has something UP, be honest and say it. Otherwise, you’re not worth listening to.

If you “don’t have time” to say something, then don’t say anything. Otherwise it’s an excuse for having a lack of substance.

@Leo: You won’t get much disagreement from me on their costs relative to their class. The fact that the other classes have them and they are still considered bad but ours is worse I think speaks volumes to the current state of ours.

As far as actives, I didn’t compare them as each of those signets does something “different” with its actives.

Sebrent.3625:

The fact that the other classes have them and they are still considered bad but ours is worse I think speaks volumes to the current state of ours.

Not really…actually, not at all.

It’s basically looking at things without context since no skills will be balanced purely by just cooldowns, numbers or points spent…more likely a combination of all those things and the class as a whole.

But I’m merely speaking about the relative effectiveness on that class if only to make sure that perspective is taken into account in the discussion. For example, in the toughness option, it’s pretty misleading since you the Ranger can build purely for toughness and still have a very damaging pet to deal your damage for you. Other professions in the same position are basically hosed and need boons to do any kind of substantial damage.

You make some good points there Leo. This is the sort of discussion I was hoping to get to have from this thread :-)

Well I’m pretty sure you already considered that kind of stuff but it’s more wordy to have to write extra crap like that…

…and it gives me something to say in the discussion instead of sitting on the sidelines

You can always contribute ideas, feedback, bugs, discrepancies, etc. Been trying to make sure there are platforms for those :-)

We still have several skills/traits not on the list here, for example ;-)

I’d be curious to see the comparison of all the heals.

ItIsFinished.9462:

I’d be curious to see the comparison of all the heals.

There is a place I imagine Ranger will win out against some classes.

Any heals in particular that look similar (enough) to you?

Sebrent.3625:

ItIsFinished.9462:

I’d be curious to see the comparison of all the heals.

There is a place I imagine Ranger will win out against some classes.

Any heals in particular that look similar (enough) to you?

Hmm, its hard to say. But after sifting through all of the different class heals…Ranger is the only class that can’t trait to add benefits to any of their heals….smh.

All of the other classes can trait to either reduce CD, or activate a random boon upon use, etc. I know Healing Spring is very beneficial to the Ranger and a party if used right, but having no traits to benefit healing in some way puts Ranger at the bottom IMO.

That’s a bit “too general” for my taste. Let’s try to refine it down if you want to get an entry added for this.

Saying we don’t have any traits related to our heals isn’t quite true. We do have +regen duration (affects healing spring) and vigor-on-heal (works with all of them).

Sebrent.3625:

That’s a bit “too general” for my taste. Let’s try to refine it down if you want to get an entry added for this.

Saying we don’t have any traits related to our heals isn’t quite true. We do have +regen duration (affects healing spring) and vigor-on-heal (works with all of them).

I was a bit vague on my description. What I meant was gaining any benefit from a direct selectable trait that goes towards a selectable Healing skill. For example, a Warrior can trait Signet Mastery which would reduce the CD of Healing Signet. They can also trait Deep Strike which could give them an extra 40 precision for having Healing Signet as their main heal. But for the Ranger, there isn’t any selectable traits that benefit any specific healing skills except regen duration.

I think the healing category is going to be a bit more broad because each class has access to multiple healing choices.

Manekk.6981:

KensaiZen.3740:

Or just skip the 20% cooldown reduction

You really want it on a longbow though I think, shortening those last 3 skills on the longbow seems like mandatory for it to work well, atleast to me (I don’t use longbow often)

In wvw zerg warfare yes. However as a roamer, no. Once you get those skills off, the enemy is in your face and you will most likely whip out the melee weapon and take the fight from there. If they run, shoot them down. Though by that time the CD will already be done.

Spvp is the same. You will use it if you are at a good Range and use it as fire support or as a way to soften the enemy. But when gap is 600 range, your better off switching to melee. When you need the LB again, the cooldowns should be finished.

Though depends on your playstyle and if you like to switch weapons a lot or not.