Guild Wars 2

I compared the GS for the three classes.

Basic-attack:
Warrior / Guardian / Ranger
Strike-Vengeful-Wrathful/ Swing-Slice-Brutal/Slash-Slice-Power
296-296-443 /259-259-333 /203-203-240

Warrior:
Time it takes to complete basic attack = 1.5s
Total damage = 1035
Damage per second = 690
Other skills:
Hundred Blades DPS = 580 for 3.5s; Regular damage = 2030
Whirlwind Attack DPS = 259 * 4 / 0.75 = 1381; Regular Damage = 777
Bladertrail(Cripple4s) Regular Damage = 277
Rush regular damage = 628
Total damage = Rush + Bladertrail + Hundred Blades + Basic Attack + Whirlwind = 4747 damage not taking vulnerability or optimal rotation in account.
Time of execution = 1.5 + 3.5 + 1 (whirlwind 0.25s cast, 0.75 evade) + 1.75 + 0.5 (rush in melee range) = 8.25s
Cooldown for next spike = 20 (Rush has the highest recharge time)
Burst skill raises total damage.
DPS = Total Damage / Total Time = 575.39

Same for Guardian:
Total Damage = 4735
Counted Whirling wrath as 2000 damage because both the spin and the projectiles damage. It hits 14 times and is possible to land all hits on a single target.
Total time = ~8 (Whirling wrath duration counted as 2.5 seconds, symbol of warth duration counted as 2 seconds (is probably more))
Cooldown for next spike = 30 (Binding Blade)
Guardian also has fire on fifth hit.
DPS = Total Damage / Total Time = 591.875 (This should probably be lower, wiki doesn’t state the duration for whirling and symbol)

Ranger:
Basic Attack damage = 646
Maul = 1171 (With bleed)
Swoop = 517
Counterattack = 480 or 369 if thrown
Hilt Bash = 185
Total = 2999
Maul needs 6 seconds to deal full damage so total time will be 6 seconds if all other skills total time is less than 6.
Time of other skills = 3.5 to 6.5 depending on when counter attack hits.
Total Time = 6 (because 3.5)
Damage if we fit in some basic attacks between 3.5 and 6 seconds = Total + 646 + 406 = 4051
DPS without extra damage = 500 (Includes 1s daze and stun, 1s evade, one block)
DPS with extra damage = 675 (Same as above + 1s evade)
Ranger has the pet which can deal extra damage

What do you think? Should I have looked at other factors?

EDIT:
The Ranger’s GS skills can hit up to 3 targets, while the Warrior’s Whirlwind hits (I believe) 5 targets up to 4 times each, depending on how far they are. The Guardian’s whirling can also hit up to 5 targets and deal almost full damage to each. Same applies for other multi-target skills the Warriors and Guardians have.

add pet damamge…

I have been a GS ranger since day one.

Auto-attack- I agree it could do with a boost but remember, we have an evasion built into it. Only 2h weapon that has that.

Maul is stupid, but it hits hard and the cooldown is short, adding bleeds to GS is useless hence I just take whatever damage I get from my 200 in Wilderness.

Swoop- The prime point of it is the distance it goes, without auto targeting it can get you out of trouble, far our of trouble. Or if a team mate is in trouble on the other side of the room/area and you are fighting inside your healing spring, that’s a huge distance you can go with an AoE heal on the end. (I get 1500 from it)

Counterattack- This is a block, one of the best int he game, it’s fine as it is.

Hit Bash- Situational, good for non boss mobs and WvW, PvP. The daze is what is important not the damage it does.

It doesn’t hit as hard but make up for it with the pet and flexibility. Pair with a LB or SB and you got yourself Aragon. =]

jpnova.4572:

I have been a GS ranger since day one.

Auto-attack- I agree it could do with a boost but remember, we have an evasion built into it. Only 2h weapon that has that.

Maul is stupid, but it hits hard and the cooldown is short, adding bleeds to GS is useless hence I just take whatever damage I get from my 200 in Wilderness.

Swoop- The prime point of it is the distance it goes, without auto targeting it can get you out of trouble, far our of trouble. Or if a team mate is in trouble on the other side of the room/area and you are fighting inside your healing spring, that’s a huge distance you can go with an AoE heal on the end. (I get 1500 from it)

Counterattack- This is a block, one of the best int he game, it’s fine as it is.

Hit Bash- Situational, good for non boss mobs and WvW, PvP. The daze is what is important not the damage it does.

It doesn’t hit as hard but make up for it with the pet and flexibility. Pair with a LB or SB and you got yourself Aragon. =]

Thank you for the input

I actually thought the gs would have a much lower damage output and was surprised about the numbers. We also have the 20% cooldown reduction for sword/greatsword which helps Maul a lot. I just wish Hilt Bash, Counterattack and Basic attacks had animations with spirit animals like Maul and Swoop has ^^

This is actually not correct, the warrior’s dps is higher, considering Hundred blades will do 10k+ not including criticals(28k+ with massive crit build).

the rangers Greatsword dps compared to the warrior/guardian will likely be ~1/2 of that DPS. especially since out “burst” damage on the Greatsword is a mix of Power/conditions. that means we cannot stack into the damage as much as the warrior can(they can use pow/crit/prec while we need to mix power condition damge, duration and prec/crit damage)

StoneWolf.7930:

the rangers Greatsword dps compared to the warrior/guardian will likely be ~1/2 of that DPS. especially since out “burst” damage on the Greatsword is a mix of Power/conditions. that means we cannot stack into the damage as much as the warrior can(they can use pow/crit/prec while we need to mix power condition damge, duration and prec/crit damage)

3 stacks of bleeding does not a burst make. Rangers can get away with running the same berserker gear as warriors. Ya know, since more than 90% of maul’s damage is NOT a condition.

At the OP: You’re missing a crucial piece of data here, and it’s not the pet. It’s the damage to multiple targets. I don’t know about the warrior’s greatsword, but of the 5 skills on the guardian’s greatsword, 4 of them hit up to 5 targets. The ranger’s greatsword doesn’t have a single skill that hits more than 3 targets. So while my ranger can maul twice in the time it takes a single whirling wrath to recharge, that single whirling wrath will still deal more damage if there are more than 3 targets to hit.

They can build to go burst DPS, but rangers are not meant to be played like that, we aren’t glass cannons or bursters. Optimal usage of a melee warrior is making yourself a solid sustainable damage dealer and making your pet burst. The pet burst isn’t possible in dungeons, but outside it works just fine.

Warriors can do that with GS, but look at their other attacks. We have a dodge, a block, amazing, movement and a daze. I’m guessing you’re looking at it from a PvP perspective, if Hundred Blades is dodged, the warrior is left open to a barrage of hits, which will down him almost instantly if he is specced to do 28k damage.

Personally I run all Knight’s and have 2.9k damage with all berserker’s trinkets, planning to change to Cavalier for more toughness however. And realistically no Ranger would go full Berserker, warriors might because lets face it, several of the people that play it are that stupid. GS rangers normally go power, pre, tough anyway since our conditions from GS arent very reliable, unless you’re THAT good with traps and go Carrion.

I.E. Warriors can do that but is only worth it in sPvP. WvW once the zerg collides melee glass cannnons are the first to die. Rangers are smarter and when GSing roam with hefty builds.

EDIT: Quarktastic has a point though, hitting just 3 targets is where we fall back. I would love it if our Power-Stab hit 5 and Maul atleast 4.

StoneWolf.7930:

This is actually not correct, the warrior’s dps is higher, considering Hundred blades will do 10k+ not including criticals(28k+ with massive crit build).

the rangers Greatsword dps compared to the warrior/guardian will likely be ~1/2 of that DPS. especially since out “burst” damage on the Greatsword is a mix of Power/conditions. that means we cannot stack into the damage as much as the warrior can(they can use pow/crit/prec while we need to mix power condition damge, duration and prec/crit damage)

That is not true actually. This is based on the skills only, and only with a full use rotation. The warriors have their Burst skill, the guardian have their fire on every fifth hit and the ranger have their pet. I did not count in any of those.

Rangers don’t need to mix power and condition; my main reasoning on that is the fact that the greatsword has only one skill that inflict condition damage.
Maul’s direct damage scales 1.5 * Power * Weapon while the bleed on it scales 3 * 0.05 * Condition Damage. (Bleed formula is 0.05 * Condition Damage + 42.5 at level 80)

Rare Major 248 – Minor 176 (I leave this to compare Rare with Exotic
Exotic Major 315 – Minor 224
Medium Exotic Armor Defense rating 1064

A high level weapon with 1000 strength and a character with 315 Power will cause Maul to output 1.5 * 315 * 1000 damage. That 472500 is reduced by 1064 armor to 444 damage. The bleed damage with condition damage as minor is (224 * 0.05 + 42.5)* 3stacks * 6seconds which is 966.6
Total damage is then 1410.

A character with condition damage as major will deal (skipping calculations) 1048.5 condition damage and 315.8 direct damage which totals in about 13kittenage.

But! In reality people don’t have less than 2000 total armor. 2000 total armor causes the direct damage to be halved which turns around the calculations and makes condition damage as major better than power as major.
The wiser choice would still be power as major since GS only has 1 condition skill.

This is not taking Crit chance and crit damage in account.

Quarktastic.1027:

At the OP: You’re missing a crucial piece of data here, and it’s not the pet. It’s the damage to multiple targets. I don’t know about the warrior’s greatsword, but of the 5 skills on the guardian’s greatsword, 4 of them hit up to 5 targets. The ranger’s greatsword doesn’t have a single skill that hits more than 3 targets. So while my ranger can maul twice in the time it takes a single whirling wrath to recharge, that single whirling wrath will still deal more damage if there are more than 3 targets to hit.

I know I am missing a lot of data from this. I came here blind, not knowing about the numbers. There are problems, everyone knows melee is more rewarding than melee and it’s same for all classes. Melee is more damage because of the risk and ranged is less damage because of the comfort. As you say, the guardian can deal tons of damage with greatsword but why can’t the ranger do the same? What is that mysterious factor that makes the output so much less?

E.g. You can turn of melee assist in the options so you can go through the enemies you are meleeing, which allows the guardian’s spinning to deal insane damage to the enemy.

solrik.6028:

I know I am missing a lot of data from this. I came here blind, not knowing about the numbers. There are problems, everyone knows melee is more rewarding than melee and it’s same for all classes. Melee is more damage because of the risk and ranged is less damage because of the comfort. As you say, the guardian can deal tons of damage with greatsword but why can’t the ranger do the same? What is that mysterious factor that makes the output so much less?

E.g. You can turn of melee assist in the options so you can go through the enemies you are meleeing, which allows the guardian’s spinning to deal insane damage to the enemy.

The issue is not that whirling wrath deals more damage, it’s that it deals more damage to more targets. While I can hit 3 targets twice with maul, I can hit 5 targets once with whirling wrath for more than twice the damage.

For a better comparison, let’s compare maul with mighty blow. Mighty blow has a 1 second lower cooldown. It hits up to 2 more targets than maul. It deals approximately the same damage as maul (with bleeding included). It’s also a blast finisher.

Blast finishers aside, if there are more than 3 targets to hit, mighty blow wins.

jpnova.4572:

Personally I run all Knight’s and have 2.9k damage with all berserker’s trinkets, planning to change to Cavalier for more toughness however. And realistically no Ranger would go full Berserker, warriors might because lets face it, several of the people that play it are that stupid. GS rangers normally go power, pre, tough anyway since our conditions from GS arent very reliable, unless you’re THAT good with traps and go Carrion.

I.E. Warriors can do that but is only worth it in sPvP. WvW once the zerg collides melee glass cannnons are the first to die. Rangers are smarter and when GSing roam with hefty builds.

First, let me say that I have tested different builds ( I haven’t tested all gear combinations though) for hours in dungeons and wvw. I noticed in WvW that people get scared when they get damaged by big hits and/or they get a lot of condition screen-effects. Also, a huge zerg against a huge zerg with people rushing is an unorganized fight.

I do run glass cannon on ranger, all berserker’s and it works, people in WvW don’t like 1 to 1.2k hits on them (with sb). My defense is low, but the amount of vigor I get and dodges I can make makes up for it. I have been thinking about changing to the same gear as you wrote but haven’t done any deeper research in it.

Can you please provide info on how much Power, Precision, Condition Damage, Crit Chance, Crit Damage you have? Write how much point you invested in what trailine too please.

Exactly with an SB, no matter how good a dodger you are in Zergs is difficult not to get hit by AoEs when you go in melee. Therefore I prefer roaming, just started it not done transitioning my gear hence not at full effect.

My goal is to get all cavalier trinkets socketed with emeralds till I can get the infused ascended versions.

Traits:
Skirmishing 20: Pets move faster, Quickdraw
Wilderness Survival 20: (Optional), Martial Mastery- I go for Wilderness Training for lower cooldown on Lightning Reflexes and Entangle
Beast Mastery 30: Might on Swap, Feline bleeding, Natural Regeneration

Gear set up:
Knight’s everything with 4 Major Divinity and with 2 Superior Runes of Golemancer. (Till I can afford all Divinity)
Berserker’s GS and SB, socketed with sigils of your choice, I prefer Battle and Bloodlust.

Right now I’m on Cavalier’s Backbrace, Ascended Berserker’s Amulet, Cavaliers Earings, Berserker’s rings. But I’m working towards full Cavalier’s socketed with Exquisite Emeralds. I spent all my Karma for Peacekeeper skins for my Engineer. =[

Numbers: http://esuke.site90.net/apps/gw2calc/
I use that to project my stats before working towards it.

Once I have the gear I am going for-

Power: 1725
Precision: 1678
Toughness: 1939
Vitality: 976

Attack: 2825
Critical Chance: 40%
Armor: 3,003
Health: 15,682

Crit Damge: 59%
Con Damage: 260
Healing: 360

And I never remember to buy make food, could boost Power/Precision/Vitality with food.

Rangers have pets in which we all know is why the ranger has lower damage. Pets can also have aoe attacks. Even if pets didnt have aoe they can be attacking totally different targets than the ranger.

You may argue that pets are useless in wvw. I disagree but that is a seperate issue.

Now one may complain we get the short end of the stick when it comes gear benifits which it kind of true. By the same token we arent limited by the same.

Food buffs and sigils are an issue.

Anyway back to the topic. Data and stats are good if you consider all related issue. The problem is depending on how you present it you can make it tell the story you want.

Any data on the ranger should always include our pets in regards to damage, boons and the like. Yes pets are varied and are a pain so baselines should be determined.

jpnova.4572:

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Exactly with an SB, no matter how good a dodger you are in Zergs is difficult not to get hit by AoEs when you go in melee. Therefore I prefer roaming, just started it not done transitioning my gear hence not at full effect.

My goal is to get all cavalier trinkets socketed with emeralds till I can get the infused ascended versions.

Traits:
Skirmishing 20: Pets move faster, Quickdraw
Wilderness Survival 20: (Optional), Martial Mastery- I go for Wilderness Training for lower cooldown on Lightning Reflexes and Entangle
Beast Mastery 30: Might on Swap, Feline bleeding, Natural Regeneration

Gear set up:
Knight’s everything with 4 Major Divinity and with 2 Superior Runes of Golemancer. (Till I can afford all Divinity)
Berserker’s GS and SB, socketed with sigils of your choice, I prefer Battle and Bloodlust.

Right now I’m on Cavalier’s Backbrace, Ascended Berserker’s Amulet, Cavaliers Earings, Berserker’s rings. But I’m working towards full Cavalier’s socketed with Exquisite Emeralds. I spent all my Karma for Peacekeeper skins for my Engineer. =[

Numbers: http://esuke.site90.net/apps/gw2calc/
I use that to project my stats before working towards it.

Once I have the gear I am going for-

Power: 1725
Precision: 1678
Toughness: 1939
Vitality: 976

Attack: 2825
Critical Chance: 40%
Armor: 3,003
Health: 15,682

Crit Damge: 59%
Con Damage: 260
Healing: 360

And I never remember to buy make food, could boost Power/Precision/Vitality with food.

That site is something I have been searching for… It’s great! There are build builders out there but none of them have gear setup.

Anyway, I am going to try that build. Best part of it is that no one expects the pet to be buffed.

Just wanted to point out since no one clarified yet: Warrior GS skills except Whirlwind (but I guess it might work the same) only hit 3 targets max at once.

But I wouldn’t except Ranger GS to do as good of damage as the other profession GS skills since it’s more of a hybrid weapon rather than a pure offensive weapon like the others’.

Now how about comparing Ranger sword to Warrior and Guardian? Although I suspect Mesmer pulls ahead but then you’d also have to throw Thief in there since they all use swords…

Ranger attacks are a lot more mobile.

Sure Warrior GS does tons of damage.

However one dodge roll can negate it, Ranger greatsword attacks are leaps and instant, much harder to just dodge roll out of.

Leo G.4501:

Just wanted to point out since no one clarified yet: Warrior GS skills except Whirlwind (but I guess it might work the same) only hit 3 targets max at once.

But I wouldn’t except Ranger GS to do as good of damage as the other profession GS skills since it’s more of a hybrid weapon rather than a pure offensive weapon like the others’.

Now how about comparing Ranger sword to Warrior and Guardian? Although I suspect Mesmer pulls ahead but then you’d also have to throw Thief in there since they all use swords…

Truth that ranger sword does damage, BUT!
It is not as mobile as GS and locks you on your target and you can’t always roll away.

It is good against not so tanky enemies in spvp if you have sb + s/d, run up to them while firing your sb hit them in the face with 2, switch to sword and use one full basic attack, use 3, use 4 use 5 use 2, switch to sb and fire. The shortbow applies 10 seconds of poison, and the melee combo applies a total of 16 seconds. Their hp will be low so they will most likely heal themselves but only 66% because of the poison. You will barely take damage because 3 skills are evasion skills. The last skill, hornet sting, will be used to get back into range and will be a little surprise for the enemy because they already used their skills which you evaded nicely. Never try this against a warrior or guardian.

solrik.6028:

jpnova.4572:

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Exactly with an SB, no matter how good a dodger you are in Zergs is difficult not to get hit by AoEs when you go in melee. Therefore I prefer roaming, just started it not done transitioning my gear hence not at full effect.

My goal is to get all cavalier trinkets socketed with emeralds till I can get the infused ascended versions.

Traits:
Skirmishing 20: Pets move faster, Quickdraw
Wilderness Survival 20: (Optional), Martial Mastery- I go for Wilderness Training for lower cooldown on Lightning Reflexes and Entangle
Beast Mastery 30: Might on Swap, Feline bleeding, Natural Regeneration

Gear set up:
Knight’s everything with 4 Major Divinity and with 2 Superior Runes of Golemancer. (Till I can afford all Divinity)
Berserker’s GS and SB, socketed with sigils of your choice, I prefer Battle and Bloodlust.

Right now I’m on Cavalier’s Backbrace, Ascended Berserker’s Amulet, Cavaliers Earings, Berserker’s rings. But I’m working towards full Cavalier’s socketed with Exquisite Emeralds. I spent all my Karma for Peacekeeper skins for my Engineer. =[

Numbers: http://esuke.site90.net/apps/gw2calc/
I use that to project my stats before working towards it.

Once I have the gear I am going for-

Power: 1725
Precision: 1678
Toughness: 1939
Vitality: 976

Attack: 2825
Critical Chance: 40%
Armor: 3,003
Health: 15,682

Crit Damge: 59%
Con Damage: 260
Healing: 360

And I never remember to buy make food, could boost Power/Precision/Vitality with food.

That site is something I have been searching for… It’s great! There are build builders out there but none of them have gear setup.

Anyway, I am going to try that build. Best part of it is that no one expects the pet to be buffed.

You’re welcome. =]

Enjoy it, share it, make rangers the dominators of roaming.

One thing to keep in mind is that the skill coefficients are better on the warrior. I just did a little testing in the heart of the mists and it looks like the greatsword has about a .7 coefficient for the warrior’s auto attack, while the ranger gets a 0.55. That means they get about 27% more damage per point of power.

Hundred blades has a power coefficient of ~.55 on each of the first 8 hits and ~1.1 on the final hit. That’s huge. Maul, on the other hand, gets a 1.5 coefficient.

So to compare, hundred blades gets 5.5 damage per point of power, maul gets 1.5. I don’t think pets are ever going to pick up that much slack.

The thing that really makes no sense to me is that a class that reduces damage by dodging a lot has a bunch of skills designed to do constant mediocre damage. You can’t do damage while dodging, so if rangers dodge more, shouldn’t the skills be a little more bursty so they don’t hurt our damage as much?

Killsmith.8169:

One thing to keep in mind is that the skill coefficients are better on the warrior. I just did a little testing in the heart of the mists and it looks like the greatsword has about a .7 coefficient for the warrior’s auto attack, while the ranger gets a 0.55. That means they get about 27% more damage per point of power.

Hundred blades has a power coefficient of ~.55 on each of the first 8 hits and ~1.1 on the final hit. That’s huge. Maul, on the other hand, gets a 1.5 coefficient.

So to compare, hundred blades gets 5.5 damage per point of power, maul gets 1.5. I don’t think pets are ever going to pick up that much slack.

The thing that really makes no sense to me is that a class that reduces damage by dodging a lot has a bunch of skills designed to do constant mediocre damage. You can’t do damage while dodging, so if rangers dodge more, shouldn’t the skills be a little more bursty so they don’t hurt our damage as much?

Hundred Blades is a non-mobile channeled skill with an 8 second cooldown that relies on stun/knockdown/immobilize utilities to make it connect (which in turn rely on foes not carrying stun breaks).

Maul is a mobile, standard skill with a 6 second cooldown that also applies 3 bleeds for 6 seconds, while the Ranger also has pets at his/her disposal to help make up for the damage gap and provide utility.

This is a real apples to oranges comparison, especially considering that Maul isn’t the problem of the Greatsword. The low coefficients on the auto-attack chain and/or the fact that it can’t make up for the MH Sword’s higher damage and perma cripple are the issue.

Duke Blackrose.4981:

Killsmith.8169:

One thing to keep in mind is that the skill coefficients are better on the warrior. I just did a little testing in the heart of the mists and it looks like the greatsword has about a .7 coefficient for the warrior’s auto attack, while the ranger gets a 0.55. That means they get about 27% more damage per point of power.

Hundred blades has a power coefficient of ~.55 on each of the first 8 hits and ~1.1 on the final hit. That’s huge. Maul, on the other hand, gets a 1.5 coefficient.

So to compare, hundred blades gets 5.5 damage per point of power, maul gets 1.5. I don’t think pets are ever going to pick up that much slack.

The thing that really makes no sense to me is that a class that reduces damage by dodging a lot has a bunch of skills designed to do constant mediocre damage. You can’t do damage while dodging, so if rangers dodge more, shouldn’t the skills be a little more bursty so they don’t hurt our damage as much?

Hundred Blades is a non-mobile channeled skill with an 8 second cooldown that relies on stun/knockdown/immobilize utilities to make it connect (which in turn rely on foes not carrying stun breaks).

Maul is a mobile, standard skill with a 6 second cooldown that also applies 3 bleeds for 6 seconds, while the Ranger also has pets at his/her disposal to help make up for the damage gap and provide utility.

This is a real apples to oranges comparison, especially considering that Maul isn’t the problem of the Greatsword. The low coefficients on the auto-attack chain and/or the fact that it can’t make up for the MH Sword’s higher damage and perma cripple are the issue.

Are you stupid, or have you not used the skill? Maul needs a stationary target as well to land. Try hitting a target with siftness and no cripples/chills with it. The delay on the hit makes maul VERY easy to dodge.

The same goes for Hilt Bash.

And what the OP is forgetting is that he’s not looking at traits and boon uptime. Tooltips won’t suffice, because a warrior can easily run 70% crit chance and additional crit damage from traits, keep up easily about 10-15 stacks of might, stack vulnerability on their own, high fury uptime, and all of his damage scales with power/prec/crit damage, whereas 30-40% of the ranger’s damage (the pet) only benefits 30% crit damage max, has no increased precision options — and is often dead in group engagements outside spvp.

As a ranger, in wvw and dungeons you will run with a high uptime 30-40% damage handicap.

And that 30-40% of your damage? If it’s not a drake, it does not cleave targets.

P.S. Greatsword auto is REALLY bad.

Zenith.7301:

Are you stupid, or have you not used the skill?

Are you stupid and haven’t used the skill?

Maul does not need a stationary target. It just needs a target that is in combat (so your swiftness speed is the same as the target’s swiftness speed). Yes, you can dodge the skill, but duh. If the skill was so fast and had no tells, do you think it’d do as much damage? Yeah, the skill can be dodged, but that window is less than a second. Just moving isn’t going to negate Maul.

Dragin.4520:

add pet damamge…

You know those are really stupid posts and show that yo don’t understand the purpose of this. Maybe you realized that all pets deal different damage and it becomes even more complicated factoring in traits or the fact that most pet attacks miss.

If you want to know take his values and estimate the part of your specific pet yourself.

Duke Blackrose.4981:

Killsmith.8169:

One thing to keep in mind is that the skill coefficients are better on the warrior. I just did a little testing in the heart of the mists and it looks like the greatsword has about a .7 coefficient for the warrior’s auto attack, while the ranger gets a 0.55. That means they get about 27% more damage per point of power.

Hundred blades has a power coefficient of ~.55 on each of the first 8 hits and ~1.1 on the final hit. That’s huge. Maul, on the other hand, gets a 1.5 coefficient.

So to compare, hundred blades gets 5.5 damage per point of power, maul gets 1.5. I don’t think pets are ever going to pick up that much slack.

The thing that really makes no sense to me is that a class that reduces damage by dodging a lot has a bunch of skills designed to do constant mediocre damage. You can’t do damage while dodging, so if rangers dodge more, shouldn’t the skills be a little more bursty so they don’t hurt our damage as much?

Hundred Blades is a non-mobile channeled skill with an 8 second cooldown that relies on stun/knockdown/immobilize utilities to make it connect (which in turn rely on foes not carrying stun breaks).

Maul is a mobile, standard skill with a 6 second cooldown that also applies 3 bleeds for 6 seconds, while the Ranger also has pets at his/her disposal to help make up for the damage gap and provide utility.

This is a real apples to oranges comparison, especially considering that Maul isn’t the problem of the Greatsword. The low coefficients on the auto-attack chain and/or the fact that it can’t make up for the MH Sword’s higher damage and perma cripple are the issue.

It’s absolutely a valid comparison in some parts of the game, like dungeons. The coefficient on ranger’s auto-attack is low, but the biggest gap between the ranger and warriors and guardians is the #2 skill. All of those skills are going to hit and do close to full damage in a dungeon so the fact that the other #2 skills are channels doesn’t make a huge difference there.

For PvP everything you listed is relevant and deserves consideration. However, maul is really obvious and easy to dodge, so I think it’s better, but not by a whole lot.

Killsmith.8169:

Duke Blackrose.4981:

Killsmith.8169:

One thing to keep in mind is that the skill coefficients are better on the warrior. I just did a little testing in the heart of the mists and it looks like the greatsword has about a .7 coefficient for the warrior’s auto attack, while the ranger gets a 0.55. That means they get about 27% more damage per point of power.

Hundred blades has a power coefficient of ~.55 on each of the first 8 hits and ~1.1 on the final hit. That’s huge. Maul, on the other hand, gets a 1.5 coefficient.

So to compare, hundred blades gets 5.5 damage per point of power, maul gets 1.5. I don’t think pets are ever going to pick up that much slack.

The thing that really makes no sense to me is that a class that reduces damage by dodging a lot has a bunch of skills designed to do constant mediocre damage. You can’t do damage while dodging, so if rangers dodge more, shouldn’t the skills be a little more bursty so they don’t hurt our damage as much?

Hundred Blades is a non-mobile channeled skill with an 8 second cooldown that relies on stun/knockdown/immobilize utilities to make it connect (which in turn rely on foes not carrying stun breaks).

Maul is a mobile, standard skill with a 6 second cooldown that also applies 3 bleeds for 6 seconds, while the Ranger also has pets at his/her disposal to help make up for the damage gap and provide utility.

This is a real apples to oranges comparison, especially considering that Maul isn’t the problem of the Greatsword. The low coefficients on the auto-attack chain and/or the fact that it can’t make up for the MH Sword’s higher damage and perma cripple are the issue.

It’s absolutely a valid comparison in some parts of the game, like dungeons. The coefficient on ranger’s auto-attack is low, but the biggest gap between the ranger and warriors and guardians is the #2 skill. All of those skills are going to hit and do close to full damage in a dungeon so the fact that the other #2 skills are channels doesn’t make a huge difference there.

For PvP everything you listed is relevant and deserves consideration. However, maul is really obvious and easy to dodge, so I think it’s better, but not by a whole lot.

That’s a problem of PvE design. Mobs are too unintelligent to avoid obvious attacks, so Warriors are dominant in that format. Unfortunately, group PvE doesn’t emphasize the Ranger’s strengths – bunkering, dueling, dedicated condition damage with a direct damage pet, and Healing Spring. In the end, the Ranger’s only major contribution to a dungeon group tends to be Healing Spring and maybe high condition damage if there is not another Ranger or Rifle Warrior or Necromancer already stacking up bleeds. Given that Necromancer’s do everything the Ranger does in PvE as well as bring potent group support via wells to the table, the Ranger is just undesirable in many dungeon groups.

And it will stay that way until either A} The game’s dungeon design gets an overhaul or B} Split ability balance is used to uberbuff the Ranger’s performance in PvE.

I’m all for split abilities. They ruined so many of my builds in the first guild wars until they started splitting the skills up.

Leo G.4501:

Zenith.7301:

Are you stupid, or have you not used the skill?

Are you stupid and haven’t used the skill?

Maul does not need a stationary target. It just needs a target that is in combat (so your swiftness speed is the same as the target’s swiftness speed). Yes, you can dodge the skill, but duh. If the skill was so fast and had no tells, do you think it’d do as much damage? Yeah, the skill can be dodged, but that window is less than a second. Just moving isn’t going to negate Maul.

Countless times. On targets in combat, and as sure as longbow arrows miss side strafing targets, Maul constantly misses targets on the move, especially in the middle of the zerg where you’re easily crippled.

And warriors have this thing called leg specialist. The closest we have to that is a utility slot or a pet’s unreliable F2. Ranger greatsword cannot keep a target from kiting you if they want to. All you have is swoop. Unlike mainhand sword, which has a perma cripple from auto.

jpnova.4572:

Swoop- The prime point of it is the distance it goes, without auto targeting it can get you out of trouble, far our of trouble. Or if a team mate is in trouble on the other side of the room/area and you are fighting inside your healing spring, that’s a huge distance you can go with an AoE heal on the end. (I get 1500 from it)

I don’t think Swoop gives an AoE heal. It’s a leap finisher, it just gives yourself the heal when passing through a water field. It would need to be a blast finisher to provide an AoE heal.

Shiren.9532:

jpnova.4572:

Swoop- The prime point of it is the distance it goes, without auto targeting it can get you out of trouble, far our of trouble. Or if a team mate is in trouble on the other side of the room/area and you are fighting inside your healing spring, that’s a huge distance you can go with an AoE heal on the end. (I get 1500 from it)

I don’t think Swoop gives an AoE heal. It’s a leap finisher, it just gives yourself the heal when passing through a water field. It would need to be a blast finisher to provide an AoE heal.

Incorrect, if you leap through/from/into a water field you get an AoE heal on leap completion. I spam this often when in trouble, or emergency healing for my melee team mates. With just 300 healing power I get close to 2000 HP. It’s substantial and awesome.

jpnova.4572:

Shiren.9532:

jpnova.4572:

Swoop- The prime point of it is the distance it goes, without auto targeting it can get you out of trouble, far our of trouble. Or if a team mate is in trouble on the other side of the room/area and you are fighting inside your healing spring, that’s a huge distance you can go with an AoE heal on the end. (I get 1500 from it)

I don’t think Swoop gives an AoE heal. It’s a leap finisher, it just gives yourself the heal when passing through a water field. It would need to be a blast finisher to provide an AoE heal.

Incorrect, if you leap through/from/into a water field you get an AoE heal on leap completion. I spam this often when in trouble, or emergency healing for my melee team mates. With just 300 healing power I get close to 2000 HP. It’s substantial and awesome.

Nope, it’s only applied to yourself. http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Leap_finisher

Blast finishers are AoE, as are whirl finishers.

Killsmith.8169:

I’m all for split abilities. They ruined so many of my builds in the first guild wars until they started splitting the skills up.

What do you mean by split abilities? I don’t quite understand…

jpnova.4572:

Swoop- The prime point of it is the distance it goes, without auto targeting it can get you out of trouble, far our of trouble. Or if a team mate is in trouble on the other side of the room/area and you are fighting inside your healing spring, that’s a huge distance you can go with an AoE heal on the end. (I get 1500 from it)

How is there an AoE heal at the end? It is a leap finisher and consequently only heals yourself. A blast finisher is what you’d need for AoE healing. Or am I mistaken?

Then I must apolagise, it might have been my Drake’s blast finisher a couple times that made it pop up.

Exactly. Drakes are the only blast finisher we Rangers have at our disposal. Regretfully

Killsmith.8169:

The thing that really makes no sense to me is that a class that reduces damage by dodging a lot has a bunch of skills designed to do constant mediocre damage. You can’t do damage while dodging, so if rangers dodge more, shouldn’t the skills be a little more bursty so they don’t hurt our damage as much?

I agree with this. Rangers should have been a burst class more similar to thieves, using dodges and evades as their main survival tool instead of stealth.

Warriors should have been the “stand in your face and beat you through sustained damage” class. Funny thing is, in PvE…warriors can do just that. On top of their ability to burst.

jpnova.4572:

solrik.6028:

jpnova.4572:

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Exactly with an SB, no matter how good a dodger you are in Zergs is difficult not to get hit by AoEs when you go in melee. Therefore I prefer roaming, just started it not done transitioning my gear hence not at full effect.

My goal is to get all cavalier trinkets socketed with emeralds till I can get the infused ascended versions.

Traits:
Skirmishing 20: Pets move faster, Quickdraw
Wilderness Survival 20: (Optional), Martial Mastery- I go for Wilderness Training for lower cooldown on Lightning Reflexes and Entangle
Beast Mastery 30: Might on Swap, Feline bleeding, Natural Regeneration

Gear set up:
Knight’s everything with 4 Major Divinity and with 2 Superior Runes of Golemancer. (Till I can afford all Divinity)
Berserker’s GS and SB, socketed with sigils of your choice, I prefer Battle and Bloodlust.

Right now I’m on Cavalier’s Backbrace, Ascended Berserker’s Amulet, Cavaliers Earings, Berserker’s rings. But I’m working towards full Cavalier’s socketed with Exquisite Emeralds. I spent all my Karma for Peacekeeper skins for my Engineer. =[

Numbers: http://esuke.site90.net/apps/gw2calc/
I use that to project my stats before working towards it.

Once I have the gear I am going for-

Power: 1725
Precision: 1678
Toughness: 1939
Vitality: 976

Attack: 2825
Critical Chance: 40%
Armor: 3,003
Health: 15,682

Crit Damge: 59%
Con Damage: 260
Healing: 360

And I never remember to buy make food, could boost Power/Precision/Vitality with food.

That site is something I have been searching for… It’s great! There are build builders out there but none of them have gear setup.

Anyway, I am going to try that build. Best part of it is that no one expects the pet to be buffed.

You’re welcome. =]

Enjoy it, share it, make rangers the dominators of roaming.

You can use this one : http://gw2buildcraft.com/calculator/ranger/
You have all you need there : Armors, Traits, Skills, Foods and more.

Zenith.7301:

Duke Blackrose.4981:

Killsmith.8169:

One thing to keep in mind is that the skill coefficients are better on the warrior. I just did a little testing in the heart of the mists and it looks like the greatsword has about a .7 coefficient for the warrior’s auto attack, while the ranger gets a 0.55. That means they get about 27% more damage per point of power.

Hundred blades has a power coefficient of ~.55 on each of the first 8 hits and ~1.1 on the final hit. That’s huge. Maul, on the other hand, gets a 1.5 coefficient.

So to compare, hundred blades gets 5.5 damage per point of power, maul gets 1.5. I don’t think pets are ever going to pick up that much slack.

The thing that really makes no sense to me is that a class that reduces damage by dodging a lot has a bunch of skills designed to do constant mediocre damage. You can’t do damage while dodging, so if rangers dodge more, shouldn’t the skills be a little more bursty so they don’t hurt our damage as much?

Hundred Blades is a non-mobile channeled skill with an 8 second cooldown that relies on stun/knockdown/immobilize utilities to make it connect (which in turn rely on foes not carrying stun breaks).

Maul is a mobile, standard skill with a 6 second cooldown that also applies 3 bleeds for 6 seconds, while the Ranger also has pets at his/her disposal to help make up for the damage gap and provide utility.

This is a real apples to oranges comparison, especially considering that Maul isn’t the problem of the Greatsword. The low coefficients on the auto-attack chain and/or the fact that it can’t make up for the MH Sword’s higher damage and perma cripple are the issue.

Are you stupid, or have you not used the skill? Maul needs a stationary target as well to land. Try hitting a target with siftness and no cripples/chills with it. The delay on the hit makes maul VERY easy to dodge.

The same goes for Hilt Bash.

And what the OP is forgetting is that he’s not looking at traits and boon uptime. Tooltips won’t suffice, because a warrior can easily run 70% crit chance and additional crit damage from traits, keep up easily about 10-15 stacks of might, stack vulnerability on their own, high fury uptime, and all of his damage scales with power/prec/crit damage, whereas 30-40% of the ranger’s damage (the pet) only benefits 30% crit damage max, has no increased precision options — and is often dead in group engagements outside spvp.

As a ranger, in wvw and dungeons you will run with a high uptime 30-40% damage handicap.

And that 30-40% of your damage? If it’s not a drake, it does not cleave targets.

P.S. Greatsword auto is REALLY bad.

Sounds like you need to get better at Mauling. It’s really not -that- hard to land. It could use a longer range, however, but it’s not in a -bad- place. Also greatsword autoattack nearly 50% evade uptime, I’ll take it, thanks.