Guild Wars 2

Pets don’t hit enemies anyways so pet damage being reduced won’t matter at all.
It’d be awesome though if y’r own damage went up.

Swimsasa Stoon.8936:

Pets don’t hit enemies anyways so pet damage being reduced won’t matter at all.
It’d be awesome though if y’r own damage went up.

This.

Saying such nerf will destroy rangers and at the same time talking about how our pet doesn’t hit anything anyway, is strange. If it doesn’t hit, who cares about dmg being lower?

They can nerf dmg as much as they want, I just want more dmg for ranger, or at least lower CDs on pet CC – imho that’s place for pet, not as dmg dealer.

I do really hope they buff us in exchange for the pet damage being taken away, but you have to understand his wording and that is because pets are more resilient in battle now as to them the vit buffs given and f2 adjustments were justification to do this later on that they will be receiving pet dmg nerfs.

I really am hoping for dmg buffs on our end but with that kind of wording AND anet’s ranger patch history I’m not sure we will see anything given on our side as that would be counter-productive to what they’re doing, nerfing a class build because they feel it’s too overpowered in it’s current state because of the hp buffs they were given early on.

And to the people saying people shouldn’t complain about the pet damage because their didn’t hit anything anyway, I think you answered it for the devs with that statement and has been what we’ve been calling for all along. Fix the pet ai before nerfing damage. That’s what we’re mad about. You have a ranger community who has since day 1 been calling the pet ai out, and has been ignored and then people cry about a BM build in a playstyle unto which people are forced to eat pet damage to contest a point and it gets listened to within a month. It’s the act of throwing a little band-aid on the situation and walking away as opposed to truly fixing the mechanics of our class that’s been addressed for a very very long time now.

We’ll definitely have to see though for sure. It will be good if they decide to put more damage on ranger end.

What really afraids me is that they didnt say “change” they said “nerf”..In the previous balance patch they changed Ride the lightning for Eles,they didnt just nerf it,if you hit an opponent its just the same as it was..And i believe is a good way in making changes and not destroying builds..But again they said nerf,a word that indicates to me that they just gonna lower the dmg in all skills for 10%,noting else.This is not the way Anet operates in the last balance patches so i geuss i might be wrong…And with the trait changes announced i geuss theres gonna be some nice changes….Lets say the nerf the total dmg of pets for 10%,but also they fix Companions Might trait so it gives 2 stacks of might for 5 secs.That means that my wolf can no longer do 3,5k dmg with leap when im not traited for BM but if i take that trait he will,so pets dmg become a part of the build

Let’s wait and see what Anet decides to do. Maybe the trait changes make up for it? Or maybe the pet’kitten-box gets bigger!?

make the pet hit moving targers reliably, then you can lower burst somewhat

Would love to see a boost in weapon base damage, or at least lb damage in exchange for the pet nerf, that would be amazing…

How can pet’s melt someone’s “Face” off when the last stupid balancing has them now going behind the enemy? As a condition Ranger, I noticed it immediately in Orr. Using SB I noticed all the Risen would bypass the pet and come straight for me. Then as I try to flank to get bleeds on them. They literally just pivot like a top to always face you. Now, whatever damage my pet can do from behind, if the target completely stands still, is getting nerfed?

Great design you have there Dev’s!!!!

So… when is the Golden Child and his sister the Mesmer getting their burst output nerfed? How about that broken stealth mechanic? That’s all secondary to one bunker build because the game has to revolve around John Sharp and his precious sPvP. #smh

awe extender.1908:

Let’s wait and see what Anet decides to do. Maybe the trait changes make up for it? Or maybe the pet’kitten-box gets bigger!?

I would rather not, it is a sad but true fact the biggest detriment the ranger class has is anet. Unless they are going to eliminate the pet or give the majority of the damage back to the ranger then anything they do will be a screw up yet again.

DeWolfe.2174:

How can pet’s melt someone’s “Face” off when the last stupid balancing has them now going behind the enemy? As a condition Ranger, I noticed it immediately in Orr. Using SB I noticed all the Risen would bypass the pet and come straight for me. Then as I try to flank to get bleeds on them. They literally just pivot like a top to always face you. Now, whatever damage my pet can do from behind, if the target completely stands still, is getting nerfed?

Great design you have there Dev’s!!!!

So… when is the Golden Child and his sister the Mesmer getting their burst output nerfed? How about that broken stealth mechanic? That’s all secondary to one bunker build because the game has to revolve around John Sharp and his precious sPvP. #smh

I’m honestly really happy it isn’t balanced around PvE. PvE is the most faceroll content ever, I could literally go into PvE with no traits at level 80 and kill things efficiently with no struggle.
That’s just basic trash mobs and Orr stuff, I’m not talking Dungeons, but dungeons are an extremely hard mechanic to balance around as they have features that don’t exist anywhere else in the game.

Versus another player is the highest skill cap you can possibly reach in an MMO, because it’s skill vs skill instead of skill vs choreographed mechanic.

The damage does need to come down on pets. Having a mechanic completely controlled by AI doing a large majority of the damage output is just not competitive, as it allows the player to make the pet do damage with little micromanagement skills (compared to heroes in guild wars 1 for instance) while focusing more on just staying alive and dodging attacks than actually dealing damage.

However, this should not be accomplished by just a damage nerf. Rather, it needs to be done through a transfer of the percentage of damage the pet makes up for versus the player.

If the player gets the damage potential being taken from the pets, and we see something more realistic like a 90%/10% player/pet split (without traits. As in, every class functions at 100% with traits, and then goes to above 100% with traits), it will not only open up more build versatility, but it will make rangers much easier to balance in an evolving metagame, and more fun to spectate in a tournament match (which ANet seems to be trying to streamline; watching pvp on twitch).

“However, this should not be accomplished by just a damage nerf. Rather, it needs to be done through a transfer of the percentage of damage the pet makes up for versus the player.”

Putting damage into the ranger’s side will make us more op than before you nerfed the pet damage to originally nerf the build in the first place as damage from the actual player is more reliable damage then our automated pet ‘facerolling people left and right’. Why would they do that?

You call for pet nerf and say that it’s a good idea, but then say we need more damage on ranger’s side. It’ll even out if you buff ranger’s side with the pet damage nerf, it’ll be as if you didn’t nerf pet damage in the first place. So if that’s the case, why even make a change at all? I mean, since pets are ‘facerolling’ everyone, right? Just seems like you’re confused.

I’ll add onto this it’s a few pets that do alot of damage and are being qq’d about, why do ALL pets get nerfed because of this? And why do ALL ranger builds have to get nerfed because of this? The route being taken for this not only penalizes players who aren’t BM who are designed to sit on a point and defend in PvP, but it also penalizes people not even running these high damage pets. It’s just silly , but whatever.

Ryan.8367:

“However, this should not be accomplished by just a damage nerf. Rather, it needs to be done through a transfer of the percentage of damage the pet makes up for versus the player.”

Putting damage into the ranger’s side will make us more op than before you nerfed the pet damage to originally nerf the build in the first place as damage from the actual player is more reliable damage then our automated pet ‘facerolling people left and right’. Why would they do that?

You call for pet nerf and say that it’s a good idea, but then say we need more damage on ranger’s side. It’ll even out if you buff ranger’s side with the pet damage nerf, it’ll be as if you didn’t nerf pet damage in the first place. So if that’s the case, why even make a change at all? I mean, since pets are ‘facerolling’ everyone, right? Just seems like you’re confused.

It’s all about BM bunkers. Pet doesn’t scale with ranger, so we can go full tank and still have full dps part of class. Transfering dmg to ranger would still nerf bunkers and buff weapon-dmg specs.

Ryan.8367:

I’ll add onto this it’s a few pets that do alot of damage and are being qq’d about, why do ALL pets get nerfed because of this? And why do ALL ranger builds have to get nerfed because of this? The route being taken for this not only penalizes players who aren’t BM who are designed to sit on a point and defend in PvP, but it also penalizes people not even running these high damage pets. It’s just silly , but whatever.

Well they didn’t actually say all pets they just said pets, I think it’s probably going to be certain abilities being brought down on some pets rather than just all pets across the board anything else would be completely mental.

I’m pretty sure they won’t buff the Rangers damage, and instead will just nerf us.

people don’t want to deal with pets in this game, that requires to high of a skillcap

The days of Rift,WoW,DAOC,Warhammer Online,and pretty much every MMO before GW2 is gone…Gotta cater to the lowest common denominator now.

Worst idea ever! You take the weakest class and nerf the only viable thing we have. Totally rediculous! Probably people whining about BM bunker builds. Guess what every class has a bunker build.

Ranger is actually one of the strongest classes.

You can’t complain until you see everything they have done, and honestly Pets are doing way too much damage when they hit there target.

They are probably going to reduce damage by 25-40% and allow them to move while attacking.

However you know something is wrong when they do more damage then a full zerker warrior with there greatsword autoattack by almost double.

THE Dentist.5960:

Probably people whining about BM bunker builds. Guess what every class has a bunker build.

Where pets do everything for them?

Pet damage was ridiculous in spvp, rangers could easily get downed from doing nothing but spamming, getting downright outplayed, but if you had anywhere under 50% hp the pet could easily down you before getting a stomp off, and then – THEN the pet resurrects master solo – not even interruptable [wtf?].

I’m not even sorry, this is one of the most auto-pilot classes out there, your damage and survivability needs to be put into your hands so bads actually die like they would another profession.

Too much given for no player input

Daecollo.9578:

Ranger is actually one of the strongest classes.

You can’t complain until you see everything they have done, and honestly Pets are doing way too much damage when they hit there target.

They are probably going to reduce damage by 25-40% and allow them to move while attacking.

However you know something is wrong when they do more damage then a full zerker warrior with there greatsword autoattack by almost double.

Wrong. We are actually one of the most broken classes. Especially our traits.
Heres a list of broken or god awful traits that almost nobody uses:
Predator’s instinct
Beastmaster’s Bond
Beastmaster’s Might
Remorseless
Trapper’s Defense
Companions Might
Healer’s Celerity
Hide in Plain Sight
Enlargement
Evasive Purity
all of the “Master” traits under BM
Instinctual Bond
It hits more than an autoattack from a greatsword zerker warrior? Okay, but thats only once in a while. Damage from pets is very inconsistent. They cannot attack while moving. Seeing a big number pop up once in a while does not necessarily mean high DPS.

I’m all for reduced damage as long as my pets can survive when I’m chain swapping pets. I cant tell my pet to dodge an AOE…or stay on the mob in the state of the game now half the time kiting. The f2 skills are not instant cast. I have no choice but to rely on this NPC for a large portion of my damage. Its pretty sad to see people looking for any class but us for fast dungeon runs. Maybe we should all just play warriors…

Daecollo.9578:

Ranger is actually one of the strongest classes.

You can’t complain until you see everything they have done, and honestly Pets are doing way too much damage when they hit there target.

They are probably going to reduce damage by 25-40% and allow them to move while attacking.

However you know something is wrong when they do more damage then a full zerker warrior with there greatsword autoattack by almost double.

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAAH!

My pet will never outdamage a warrior, get off whatever you’re smoking. The only attack that outdamages warrior GS auto is an ability cooldown on the jaguar or an f2 cd on raven. The autoattakcs on the jaguar at full 30 BM do not hit for more than the GS auto.

And when my Jaguar can hit something for 44k in cof then we can talk about outdamaging the warrior.

Zenith.7301:

Daecollo.9578:

Ranger is actually one of the strongest classes.

You can’t complain until you see everything they have done, and honestly Pets are doing way too much damage when they hit there target.

They are probably going to reduce damage by 25-40% and allow them to move while attacking.

However you know something is wrong when they do more damage then a full zerker warrior with there greatsword autoattack by almost double.

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAAH!

My pet will never outdamage a warrior, get off whatever you’re smoking. The only attack that outdamages warrior GS auto is an ability cooldown on the jaguar or an f2 cd on raven. The autoattakcs on the jaguar at full 30 BM do not hit for more than the GS auto.

And when my Jaguar can hit something for 44k in cof then we can talk about outdamaging the warrior.

Well. That was depressing. I wanted to persist in false hope for a minute but you ruined it.

Terkov.4138:

Ryan.8367:

“However, this should not be accomplished by just a damage nerf. Rather, it needs to be done through a transfer of the percentage of damage the pet makes up for versus the player.”

Putting damage into the ranger’s side will make us more op than before you nerfed the pet damage to originally nerf the build in the first place as damage from the actual player is more reliable damage then our automated pet ‘facerolling people left and right’. Why would they do that?

You call for pet nerf and say that it’s a good idea, but then say we need more damage on ranger’s side. It’ll even out if you buff ranger’s side with the pet damage nerf, it’ll be as if you didn’t nerf pet damage in the first place. So if that’s the case, why even make a change at all? I mean, since pets are ‘facerolling’ everyone, right? Just seems like you’re confused.

It’s all about BM bunkers. Pet doesn’t scale with ranger, so we can go full tank and still have full dps part of class. Transfering dmg to ranger would still nerf bunkers and buff weapon-dmg specs.

+1

Thank you for answering this for me, couldn’t have said it better myself.

do ranger bunkers really need a nerf outside of PvP ? I am not even convinced they need a nerf in PvP either . There are clear builds from other classes that can demolish rangers.

Chokolata.1870:

do ranger bunkers really need a nerf outside of PvP ? I am not even convinced they need a nerf in PvP either . There are clear builds from other classes that can demolish rangers.

I can see if they want to bring down some of the biggest damaging abilities from pets like Jaguar bite and Raven slash but if they bring down that only viable spiky damage the ranger has then they also need to make it easier for pets to hit moving targets or preferably enhance the rangers own damage output.

I think it will end up with just certain petskills being nerfed in damage and I’m afraid it might end in thieves, mesmers and engineers meaning certain death everytime you meet them and everyone else being hard to kill aswell.

Manekk.6981:

I think it will end up with just certain petskills being nerfed in damage and I’m afraid it might end in thieves, mesmers and engineers meaning certain death everytime you meet them and everyone else being hard to kill aswell.

this,
i think end june patch is like all “big” balance patches before.
for pvp im sure we dont see any good buffs making some new/old build strong enough
for the rangers.
beastmaster ranger will be to weak for use him as bunker only, because 2vs1 survive is not the best at this bunker.

but its the rangers good old way:

after the beta first longsword nerf => longsword useless :P
then after first few weeks shortbow autoattack nerf => shortbow not rly strong weapon

at this time nobody used ranger at tourny.
all ppls was think when they saw a ranger “oh freekill”
it was same, like with warrior atm
(at this time, trapper was rly nice to use, because all was think ranger is freekill :P)

first time ranger joined serious tournaments was, when the trapper build was used by a good team.
i remember the sotg discussion about “trapper ranger is op”
and the trapper ranger player at sotg sayed “trapper is not op, i use it because its fun”
but all was so sure trapper ranger is to strong :P

the most big fun at this point was:
trapper ranger leaved tournament without any nerf beause hgh engi was more strong
without any buff!
but all wanted a ranger nerf because, “omg a ranger at tournaments!”

well after short time at tournament ranger leaved again,
then ppls found bm ranger, it was rly fun to use him before much ppls used this build

and now we have the same story with the bm ranger…
all think he is so op because “omg ranger is back at tournys!!!”

the most fun atm is the same as with trapper ranger, much ppls allrdy
dont want beastmaster ranger in there team anymore and he is not nerfed atm! :P

and why?
because he is so easy to counter out,
its not hard to know what bm ranger can do at tourny, because its not so much.

its:

stay at homepoint => fail because team mates will loose teamfights

maybe come help at mid with low teamsupport skills and single target pet => decap at homepoint because enemy team is not stupid

maybe use mes portal at home and send ranger back when someone inc homepoint.
=> nice tactic but why then use bm ranger when u can use a better team support class for this

maybe send bm ranger to farpoint => yes it works when u can decap, if not its just fail, because bm ranger will not kill anything fast enough,
only the mesmer die fast enough, but enemy team is not stupid :P
this tactic works one or two times, then they will watch homepoint well

for me,
best use of my ranger is again to “troll around in hot join”
and use my bunker guardian at serious tournys…

Yes i remember back at the “Trapper Rangers are OP” saying at forums that nothing had changed guys since day 1 in traps,they dont need nerf,learn to counter them..Still nothing changed at traps but i geuss now they are not OP…just because this build is not popular and its not killing to many players..(?!)..

Back at the SB-QZ combo,before the animation glitch fix we had another build,yes it didnt required much of an effort so it had to be nerfed,still they didnt gave something else at Rangers and Rangers disappear from WvW,PvP and PvE maps..
Now they are a lot of Rangers at PvP maps,a few at PvE and almost none at WvW..

I hope that in the incoming pet nerf they wont make the same mistake..

Zera.8907:

These kittens at anet don’t even know their own game! God, Camelot Unchained where are you?!?!?!?!

ESO baby, cant wait. Thes guys are clueless when it comes to the ranger.
They should just switch the class to beastmaster or get rid of the kittenty useless pet once and for all.

vitali.1609:

Zera.8907:

These kittens at anet don’t even know their own game! God, Camelot Unchained where are you?!?!?!?!

ESO baby, cant wait. Thes guys are clueless when it comes to the ranger.
They should just switch the class to beastmaster or get rid of the kittenty useless pet once and for all.

You are just making circles you know..Nothing is perfect.And we are talking about a game……Sure some things dont make sense but i believe that everyone got good intentions..Its not like someone is hating Rangers just cause it happens to be your favorite class.
Some traits are totally 0,some issues with pets,some weapons need fixing still i believe that every proffession has problems and in every game you will face problems with your favorite class…

“It’s all about BM bunkers. Pet doesn’t scale with ranger, so we can go full tank and still have full dps part of class. Transfering dmg to ranger would still nerf bunkers and buff weapon-dmg specs.”

It just means there will be a new meta, hybrid BM burst which has been around for a bit already and when they buff dmg on weapons side it will then be the next OP build replacing the current full BM Bunker.

It’s quite simple, some people can’t multi-task against 2 things and don’t want to learn counters and so they cry about it and the devs listen. Toning down the pet damage isn’t the issue, it’s that there is a 2nd thing you have to worry about in a playstyle which promotes having to worry about it (which isn’t anything new if you’ve played any other MMO with a pet-based class, DAOC/WoW Hunter is the first that comes to mind). We’ll know that as soon as they tone down the damage and rangers will still be destroying in PvP. So what will they do when they cry about the next meta if they buff dmg on weapons?

It’s a mixture of the playstyle (staying in a point means you have to eat pet damage period, regardless of the damage) and people don’t like having 2 targets to worry about. Not the pet damage itself. So how do you solve it? It seems to me like they want to make pets to where you can simply tank them and ignore them on the point while also while spending all their focus on the ranger, when that sort of defeats the purpose of the ranger class defensively/offensively, right?

Besides, this nerf will most likely only be in PvP anyway so it’s not too much of a big deal as pathing works in ranger’s favor in PvP since you’re not in an open space like WvW where your opponent can move freely, bringing your pet completely out of the picture and manipulate it’s horrible pathing. If they have ever seen the same BM bunker build in WvW at work they’ll clearly see that it’s a game environment playstyle issue and not necessarily the build itself.

I played WoW hunter for years and there were no problems with pet in PvP.

Maybe a tiny dmg nerf is ok, if pets’ F2 skills were instant cast!

The pets’ F2 skills should be casted immediately at beginning of the animation not several seconds after. You use the skill for the present time, not for the future!!
I need my wolf’s fear NOW!!!! not when the foe has already killed me :-(

Terkov.4138:

I played WoW hunter for years and there were no problems with pet in PvP.

I remember some good old times when my pet could kill people virtually on his own in bestial wrath and I was immune to CC for like 20s

I also remember during diffrent times people would take the time to kill your pet because it was sometimes a good idea that never happens in gw2 unless they do it by mistake or aoe/conditions, I suppose the petswap mechanic makes it a useless tactic for some proffessions but I can think of a few burst classes that could do it so easily and fast sometimes.

Daecollo.9578:

Ranger is actually one of the strongest classes.

You can’t complain until you see everything they have done, and honestly Pets are doing way too much damage when they hit there target.

They are probably going to reduce damage by 25-40% and allow them to move while attacking.

However you know something is wrong when they do more damage then a full zerker warrior with there greatsword autoattack by almost double.

Please QFT. You obviously have no idea what you are talking about in an extreme way. Just stop. I have played both zerker lvl 80 ranger and war, and the ranger’s pet puts out NO WHERE NEAR the damage. None of the pets do. My war can crit for so much more. Ranger is the strongest class? You are either trolling or an idiot to such a severe degree that you should be studied by medical science to determine if it is a new unknown medical condition of radical impeded learning ability in a human being.

The way some pets work now (e.g., cats and birds) is that they seldom land a hit, but when they do, it can hurt. IF I have my jaguar out, and IF I put him into stealth, and IF I have 20+ stacks of master’s bond, and IF it can land a hit, then you can expect some large number (e.g., 4K+ on non-tanky targets). Otherwise my pet is a non-factor at best, and at worst serves as CnD fodder for no-skill, heartseeker-spamming, perma-stealth thieves.

So, pets are our (unreliable) burst. If they tone that down, then they really have to make their abilities, both F2 and regular attacks, operate and hit faster and more reliably.

But to be honest, at least in WvW, good opponents I face make sure to damage my pet and try to take it down. Good opponents keep moving, making it difficult for the pet to hit. It takes a fair amount of skill and luck on the ranger’s part to get their pet to hit non-noobs in WvW.

I can see how fighting on a point in sPVP would be a different matter.

thefantasticg.3984:

Daecollo.9578:

Ranger is actually one of the strongest classes.

You can’t complain until you see everything they have done, and honestly Pets are doing way too much damage when they hit there target.

They are probably going to reduce damage by 25-40% and allow them to move while attacking.

However you know something is wrong when they do more damage then a full zerker warrior with there greatsword autoattack by almost double.

Please QFT. You obviously have no idea what you are talking about in an extreme way. Just stop. I have played both zerker lvl 80 ranger and war, and the ranger’s pet puts out NO WHERE NEAR the damage. None of the pets do. My war can crit for so much more. Ranger is the strongest class? You are either trolling or an idiot to such a severe degree that you should be studied by medical science to determine if it is a new unknown medical condition of radical impeded learning ability in a human being.

Seriously, people should stop responding to him. He’s a troll – 90% or more of his posts are pure trolling of the non-warrior forums. The only reason he hasn’t been banned from the forums is that’s he’s not rude – just stupid.

The biggest problem, and it comes up again and again, is that we are balanced around 100% pet uptime with 100% pet hit rate. Anyone who actually plays a ranger knows that those are more likely 20-50% at best, so we’re kitten from the outset.

When someone finally eats some damage from the pet, they’re so upset by it that they come screaming to the forums over it. Add to that the simple truth that ALL gw2 balancing has been done around freaking PvP, and you have the clusterkitten that Rangers and Elementalists have to deal with.

So if the leaked patch notes are real is this going to apply to pve?

I personally think the pet damage nerf stated in the ‘leaked’ patch notes aren’t true; imho I think the pet dps nerf is going to be something along the lines of ‘if you have one pet damage increase effect up, any other you activate after it will override it.’ Basically making it so that you can combo pet damage increase effects back-to-back rather than just mashing them all together. I could be wrong, but that’s what I’d hope for anyway.

It’s not so much the pet damage reduction that I’m going to be disappointed in its the fact I know Anet are going to do a general pet damage nerf across the board. Yes, BM bunkers do more damage then other bunkers (personally I thought it was because they are selfish and don’t send out boons and have very little support) allowing them to actually kill their opponents and heaven forbid, be a good 1v1 class.

It’s just going to be a flat reduction and all builds will be hurt. The new traits they throw in will probably be to bring their damage up to where they were. Anet will probably force you into traits where you either do support (poorly) or average sustained dps.

If they would just make the darn pet HIT a moving target I wouldn’t mind the dps reduction…then I would believe ANet as being capable of balance…

Cletus Van Damme.2795:

So if the leaked patch notes are real is this going to apply to pve?

I’m thinking they’ll apply it only to PvP, since that’s the only place where pets are being called OP.