Guild Wars 2

I love how everyone is claiming the warrior is the most OP or most complete class.

No support
No roaming ability
No tanking
Longbow is only good for area denial

Only thing warriors have is insane burst on stationary targets (use your dodge button and suddenly the warrior does no damage), or CC out the wazoo. You can’t even have access to both.

It’s currently regarded as one of the most useless classes in dungeons and sPvP. There’s a ranger on every tPvP team guaranteed.

It sucks that you got a slight nerf, but don’t try to drag every class with you just because you can’t ultra-bleed people to death anymore.

Warriors are top tier at leveling and stomping scrubs in spvp, therefore bad players think they’re OP. It makes sense really.

Warriors currently do more ranged dps than rangers outside of SB Spam. Ontop of that they have on demand burst we dont.

They get heavy armor

They have far better support skills (our spirits get one shotted and dont do much since their nerfs). Warrior banners and shouts are amazing

They have viable melee weapons (Ranger GS and Sword are a joke).

Hrm..so hours later…is there an update ??

Having high survivability and the highest burst in game is not exactly UP
No tanking? Sure!

Back on topic, after a 20 min test it clearly is taking a lot more time than what the notes say… Im starting to doubt that all these nefs/buffs flying around are being properly tested internally, if they are tested al all…

Ditton.3149:

Short bow animation fired two arrows per second, QZ doubles the rate of fire thus 4 per second, it lasts 4 seconds…16 arrows sounds right. Using the other abilities used to stop animation, I think that is what they were trying to get rid of, to promote players to use other abilities rather than rely so heavily on auto shot and QZ

Should’ve nerfed QZ instead of auto-attacks then. This nerf hurts those of us who didn’t use QZ to begin with (don’t mention maximal efficiency, etc.; I just can’t fit it into my skillbar).

sorae. If you don’t use QZ then you actually were’nt nerfed much at all. Maybe 2 arrows over the course of 1 minute. Not something that should at all be an issue.

Kildari.2480:

sorae. If you don’t use QZ then you actually were’nt nerfed much at all. Maybe 2 arrows over the course of 1 minute. Not something that should at all be an issue.

Sorry, you are wrong. As I said in a different thread. I have my dps notes from when I was determining what was the best Ranger weapon before this patch. I ran tests on the shortbow again after this patch. The overall drop of shortbow dps from this patch is greater than 30%.

Which i’m actually not disputing arcane. If we got a 30% nerf it was because they messed up our shortbow damage and/or bleeds.

The attack speed I’ve tested over and over again in game since this patch dropped just to be sure of my numbers. We used to fire 120 arrows in 60 seconds. I’ve watched videos that clearly shows that QZ shot 16 arrows in 4 seconds. That 2 arrows a second which is 120 arrows in 60 seconds. That’s undisputable.

Now we fire 118 arrows roughly as a few tests I had 117 arrows. Maybe server lag. With QZ it’s 12 arrows which means QZ is messed up. However that does not account for a 30% decrease in damage which means that it has to be somewhere else which is what we need to steer A-net to. Not attack speed in general which they will find is accurate.

Can we get a developer update? Or is it so late this will have to wait till tomorrow?

Kildari.2480:

Which i’m actually not disputing arcane. If we got a 30% nerf it was because they messed up our shortbow damage and/or bleeds.

The attack speed I’ve tested over and over again in game since this patch dropped just to be sure of my numbers. We used to fire 120 arrows in 60 seconds. I’ve watched videos that clearly shows that QZ shot 16 arrows in 4 seconds. That 2 arrows a second which is 120 arrows in 60 seconds. That’s undisputable.

Now we fire 118 arrows roughly as a few tests I had 117 arrows. Maybe server lag. With QZ it’s 12 arrows which means QZ is messed up. However that does not account for a 30% decrease in damage which means that it has to be somewhere else which is what we need to steer A-net to. Not attack speed in general which they will find is accurate.

The shortbow used to fire 2.4 arrows per second. I just tested it, we currently fire 1.9 arrows per second.

What I found amazing is that the players notice this minutes after the patch, and a bunch of devs didn’t saw it in internal tests… does any dev actually plays a ranger, or do they change skills based on a whiteboard theory ?

I have a level 80 ranger … before people wonder, the shortbow NEEDED a nerf.

Probably 90% of ALL bots are RANGERS using SHORTBOW. Why do you think that is? There are literally PACKS of them running in every zone. Why? Because it was TOO GOOD. When it is so good that it becomes the bot standard you had better expect the balance bat to fall your way.

Be honest … DPS wise you could easily get away with a Bear and skill 1 (auto attack) and do nothing else and down almost anything. Oh no we might have to work 2-5 into the rotation now. Anyone crying about a nerf should be forced to play an Ele for a month for perspective.

Jack of All Trades, Master of NONE.

We’re like the engineers who didn’t get our diplomas.

Glue Shot for engineers, non elite, reasonable recharge rate.
Binding Roots for Rangers, Elite, crazy long recharge rate

Healing Turret for Engineers, No time limit on regeneration, stay in rage get the benefit.
Healing Spring for Rangers, Has a limited time before it dissapates.

Now Warrior Longbow fire 2 shots
Ranger Longbow, pretty kitten weak… like or not, Warrior has twice the dps rangers have on the longbow.

Shortbow pre nerf, able to keep up DPS with thieves considering their first bow skill bounces.
Post nerf, Atleast piercing arrows isnt nerfed to limit going through 2 bodies or something stupid like that.

If you’re gonna slash our attack speed by almost half then raise our damage by almost half.

The only reason why people used the shortbow was not because it did superb damage, but because it was fast enough to make up for the low damage and if you can flank then even better.

Hay how about pets huh?
Why dont you guys fix those instead, their AI is by far the stupidest in any MMORPG anyones seen, even the pets in Guildwars were better.

leprekan.7248:

I have a level 80 ranger … before people wonder, the shortbow NEEDED a nerf.

Probably 90% of ALL bots are RANGERS using SHORTBOW. Why do you think that is? There are literally PACKS of them running in every zone. Why? Because it was TOO GOOD. When it is so good that it becomes the bot standard you had better expect the balance bat to fall your way.

Be honest … DPS wise you could easily get away with a Bear and skill 1 (auto attack) and do nothing else and down almost anything. Oh no we might have to work 2-5 into the rotation now. Anyone crying about a nerf should be forced to play an Ele for a month for perspective.

Because the Ranger is the only profession with a permanent pet and the short bow is the only viable Ranger weapon and it is a ranged weapon. It has absolutely nothing to do with it being overpowered.

arcaneclarity.5283:

leprekan.7248:

I have a level 80 ranger … before people wonder, the shortbow NEEDED a nerf.

Probably 90% of ALL bots are RANGERS using SHORTBOW. Why do you think that is? There are literally PACKS of them running in every zone. Why? Because it was TOO GOOD. When it is so good that it becomes the bot standard you had better expect the balance bat to fall your way.

Be honest … DPS wise you could easily get away with a Bear and skill 1 (auto attack) and do nothing else and down almost anything. Oh no we might have to work 2-5 into the rotation now. Anyone crying about a nerf should be forced to play an Ele for a month for perspective.

Because the Ranger is the only profession with a permanent pet and the short bow is the only viable Ranger weapon and it is a ranged weapon. It has absolutely nothing to do with it being overpowered.

I know it isn’t something you want to do but … I did say “be honest”. Gold sellers are in it to make REAL LIFE MONEY. There is a reason they were choosing the ranger. Any class can be used to bot (pet or no pet). The Ranger was just too good to pass up … like it or not. No amount of spin will get you out of that logic trap. Sorry, if that helps any

leprekan.7248:

arcaneclarity.5283:

leprekan.7248:

I have a level 80 ranger … before people wonder, the shortbow NEEDED a nerf.

Probably 90% of ALL bots are RANGERS using SHORTBOW. Why do you think that is? There are literally PACKS of them running in every zone. Why? Because it was TOO GOOD. When it is so good that it becomes the bot standard you had better expect the balance bat to fall your way.

Be honest … DPS wise you could easily get away with a Bear and skill 1 (auto attack) and do nothing else and down almost anything. Oh no we might have to work 2-5 into the rotation now. Anyone crying about a nerf should be forced to play an Ele for a month for perspective.

Because the Ranger is the only profession with a permanent pet and the short bow is the only viable Ranger weapon and it is a ranged weapon. It has absolutely nothing to do with it being overpowered.

I know it isn’t something you want to do but … I did say “be honest”. Gold sellers are in it to make REAL LIFE MONEY. There is a reason they were choosing the ranger. Any class can be used to bot (pet or no pet). The Ranger was just too good to pass up … like it or not. No amount of spin will get you out of that logic trap. Sorry, if that helps any

uhm no, ever play a ranger? They are very…. “Boring” as some find them, imo, the term here is “simple” they get alot of damage just by simply sicing the pet on the target and letting auto attack 1 do the work with a shortbow. This is how most rangers played. shortbow 2-5 give us utility/kiting, which when botting you dont need, and for normal above world pve, for the most part you also dont need.

So they chose something that need the least amount of bot programming to do. Im pretty sure a warrior bot that uses its abilities is MUCH stronger, but most bots are not smart enough to properly use skills. So whatever is the most simple is what they pick. Ranger is one of the most simple classes in the game.

leprekan.7248:

I have a level 80 ranger … before people wonder, the shortbow NEEDED a nerf.

Probably 90% of ALL bots are RANGERS using SHORTBOW. Why do you think that is? There are literally PACKS of them running in every zone. Why? Because it was TOO GOOD. When it is so good that it becomes the bot standard you had better expect the balance bat to fall your way.

Be honest … DPS wise you could easily get away with a Bear and skill 1 (auto attack) and do nothing else and down almost anything. Oh no we might have to work 2-5 into the rotation now. Anyone crying about a nerf should be forced to play an Ele for a month for perspective.

It has nothing to do with beeing overpowered ..it’s the only normal weapon for Rangers as the rest of the weapons only do about half the damage

…we are not proud of using only the 1’st attack but all the other skills on the SB don’t make any dmg (mass bleed, jump back, cripple and stun for 1 second)

leprekan.7248:

arcaneclarity.5283:

leprekan.7248:

I have a level 80 ranger … before people wonder, the shortbow NEEDED a nerf.

Probably 90% of ALL bots are RANGERS using SHORTBOW. Why do you think that is? There are literally PACKS of them running in every zone. Why? Because it was TOO GOOD. When it is so good that it becomes the bot standard you had better expect the balance bat to fall your way.

Be honest … DPS wise you could easily get away with a Bear and skill 1 (auto attack) and do nothing else and down almost anything. Oh no we might have to work 2-5 into the rotation now. Anyone crying about a nerf should be forced to play an Ele for a month for perspective.

Because the Ranger is the only profession with a permanent pet and the short bow is the only viable Ranger weapon and it is a ranged weapon. It has absolutely nothing to do with it being overpowered.

I know it isn’t something you want to do but … I did say “be honest”. Gold sellers are in it to make REAL LIFE MONEY. There is a reason they were choosing the ranger. Any class can be used to bot (pet or no pet). The Ranger was just too good to pass up … like it or not. No amount of spin will get you out of that logic trap. Sorry, if that helps any

I’m sorry, but I honestly don’t think I’ve seen a single Ranger bot. That isn’t to say they don’t exist – enough people talk about them that they obviously do – but as for me, of all of the dozens or more bot I’ve seen, the vast, vast, vast majority have been guardians. Why? Maybe survivability, I don’t know. In any case, it’s simply nonsense that Rangers somehow have some kind of monopoly on botting.

Even if bots use rangers, why they go and nerf rangers before even doing something about bots? Nice idea. Here is one too, how about removing the ranger completely from the game? That sure will deal with bots! /sarcasm

My main is a ranger. I haven’t tried the new build yet but everyone saying that it’s not +40ms, it’s more. It’s not supposed to be a nerf btw, it’s supposedly a fix for an animation glitch.

Skolops.2604:

leprekan.7248:

arcaneclarity.5283:

leprekan.7248:

I have a level 80 ranger … before people wonder, the shortbow NEEDED a nerf.

Probably 90% of ALL bots are RANGERS using SHORTBOW. Why do you think that is? There are literally PACKS of them running in every zone. Why? Because it was TOO GOOD. When it is so good that it becomes the bot standard you had better expect the balance bat to fall your way.

Be honest … DPS wise you could easily get away with a Bear and skill 1 (auto attack) and do nothing else and down almost anything. Oh no we might have to work 2-5 into the rotation now. Anyone crying about a nerf should be forced to play an Ele for a month for perspective.

Because the Ranger is the only profession with a permanent pet and the short bow is the only viable Ranger weapon and it is a ranged weapon. It has absolutely nothing to do with it being overpowered.

I know it isn’t something you want to do but … I did say “be honest”. Gold sellers are in it to make REAL LIFE MONEY. There is a reason they were choosing the ranger. Any class can be used to bot (pet or no pet). The Ranger was just too good to pass up … like it or not. No amount of spin will get you out of that logic trap. Sorry, if that helps any

I’m sorry, but I honestly don’t think I’ve seen a single Ranger bot. That isn’t to say they don’t exist – enough people talk about them that they obviously do – but as for me, of all of the dozens or more bot I’ve seen, the vast, vast, vast majority have been guardians. Why? Maybe survivability, I don’t know. In any case, it’s simply nonsense that Rangers somehow have some kind of monopoly on botting.

Dont forget engineers.

flamethrower pack 1Spam + turrets.

Sit at DR chain area and continuous spam whilst letting the turrets do the work and burning any mobs that get too close

JonPeters.5630:

I’ll take a look on live right now!

Er… have you checked yet? This post was a while ago now!

Bots don’t necessary use the best weapon.
They use the best scriptable weapon.

leprekan.7248:

arcaneclarity.5283:

leprekan.7248:

I have a level 80 ranger … before people wonder, the shortbow NEEDED a nerf.

Probably 90% of ALL bots are RANGERS using SHORTBOW. Why do you think that is? There are literally PACKS of them running in every zone. Why? Because it was TOO GOOD. When it is so good that it becomes the bot standard you had better expect the balance bat to fall your way.

Be honest … DPS wise you could easily get away with a Bear and skill 1 (auto attack) and do nothing else and down almost anything. Oh no we might have to work 2-5 into the rotation now. Anyone crying about a nerf should be forced to play an Ele for a month for perspective.

Because the Ranger is the only profession with a permanent pet and the short bow is the only viable Ranger weapon and it is a ranged weapon. It has absolutely nothing to do with it being overpowered.

I know it isn’t something you want to do but … I did say “be honest”. Gold sellers are in it to make REAL LIFE MONEY. There is a reason they were choosing the ranger. Any class can be used to bot (pet or no pet). The Ranger was just too good to pass up … like it or not. No amount of spin will get you out of that logic trap. Sorry, if that helps any

Ranger is used as bot , is because short bow only attack skill is cross fire, plus we have a pet to help tank plus piercing arrow trait. You can hit multiple target In a straight line. Totally fit the needs of a botter.
Ranger hit fast not very hard, but if you band 5 rangers together , it’s another story.
The fact that ranger is now use as a favorite bot charc got nothing to do being overpowered.
Bottom line, ban the gold seller and buyer .

leprekan.7248:

arcaneclarity.5283:

leprekan.7248:

I have a level 80 ranger … before people wonder, the shortbow NEEDED a nerf.

Probably 90% of ALL bots are RANGERS using SHORTBOW. Why do you think that is? There are literally PACKS of them running in every zone. Why? Because it was TOO GOOD. When it is so good that it becomes the bot standard you had better expect the balance bat to fall your way.

Be honest … DPS wise you could easily get away with a Bear and skill 1 (auto attack) and do nothing else and down almost anything. Oh no we might have to work 2-5 into the rotation now. Anyone crying about a nerf should be forced to play an Ele for a month for perspective.

Because the Ranger is the only profession with a permanent pet and the short bow is the only viable Ranger weapon and it is a ranged weapon. It has absolutely nothing to do with it being overpowered.

I know it isn’t something you want to do but … I did say “be honest”. Gold sellers are in it to make REAL LIFE MONEY. There is a reason they were choosing the ranger. Any class can be used to bot (pet or no pet). The Ranger was just too good to pass up … like it or not. No amount of spin will get you out of that logic trap. Sorry, if that helps any

So the bots are ones determining which class is OP and which is balanced now and not the player base / devs?

Very very sound logic mate!

/sarcasm

Acerac.6428:

Oh trust me, I expect my warrior to get nerfed every patch. Never seems to happen though. It’s pretty awesome, not gonna lie. lawlfacerollomnislash

I have all the classes rolled though so it’s easy for me to stick with what is fun. I just pray anet leaves in the other things I enjoy.

Warrior hardly ever gets nerfed, it’s Izzy’s favourite profession.

Surely these two facts have nothing in common.

Devs please, can you read rangers forums too?
We post a lot about pets, Spirits, traits, skills from pets that doesn’t work…
And we don’t get a single Dev Answer at all, that would be nice too, dragging a bit of attention to that part of the forum, cause the real thread was there and has way more posts than this one.

How depressing. I love my ranger…for the concept. SB was the only way I could do Orr tho. Well really, I try to mix both bows. Maybe not the best but I like it. Now, like others have said, I guess I need to step back from her until this is addressed.

Acerac

Warriors are top tier at leveling and stomping scrubs in spvp, therefore bad players think they’re OP. It makes sense really.

True. But it’s also true that bad players account for 90% of the player base, so they are OP for 90% of a whole MMO player base, which is not little.

crossfire was overpowered and i believe it still is

Crossfire was never overpowered. It barely keeps up with other classes’ DPS.

JonPeters.5630:

I’ll take a look on live right now!

Er… have you checked yet? This post was a while ago now!

He had to log off because after his 4th event while checking he hit the DR cap and wasn’t getting any drops/karma. Expect an answer 24 hours later after his DR has worn off.

@Skolops.2604
I fully agree on that. My main is war and its really far stronger class then ranger. In wvw , my guardian lvl 35 does more dmg and have greater chance to live out the duel then my ranger who is full geared.
As a war on main i clearly say in wvw my main target is almost always a ranger. They deal silly dmg to me and with some dodging they go down in no time. Im sorry but if i can down almost any single ranger super fast and super easy it can be only that im super awesome pvper, or that ranger class is underpowered.
I dont really think im super awesome pvper to be real …..

I eat warriors for breakfast on my ranger. The warrior is my favorite prof to take down because I can evade everything you throw at me before bursting u down or melting u with conditions. The only op prof in PvP was a well players mesmer. And they just took care of it.

I play a beast master condition ranger in pve and moves just melt before my eyes.

Anyway, I digress. Jon u got a hot fix for us friend?

crossfire is the most overpowered auto attack in this game

you talkin bout keepin up with other classes’s dps, but other classes actually use more than the button “1”

incisorr.9502:

crossfire is the most overpowered auto attack in this game

you talkin bout keepin up with other classes’s dps, but other classes actually use more than the button “1”

Other classes have damage dealing abilities other than 1.

We have things like snare and stun with damage which is roughly the same, if not lower, than our auto-attack.

1 is our primary source of damage because 2-5 aren’t more powerful attacks like they are with most damage-focused weapon / class combos.

:edit:

Crossfire: Damage: 134 & Positional Bleeding: 3 s (128 damage)

Quickshot: Damage: 118
Crippling Shot: Damage: 118
Concussion Shot: Damage: 118

The only one higher than the autoattack is Poison Volley, which is only useful at point blank range (assuming single target damage is the focus of this discussion).

Source: http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Shortbow#Ranger

Then they should change the whole short bow skills rather then just nerfing one of them.

We don’t have the dps when we also use all 5 skill compare to other class who uses all. This seriously is the problem of the whole skill set.

@incisorr.9502
Have u ever check how much dmg does war or guardian skills do ? If you wish i can take u screens from from how much dmg my full geared war does in pvp per skill used. And you take ur time to find me ANY ranger that comes even close to that.

If nothing else, rangers needed a buff , and this nerf makes ranger by far worst choice for just about anything.

Please leave ranger alone he was fun yesterday!! instead fix the invulnerable bug !!! Im not going to step down from my safe rock to TANK a kittening enemy pack that does 1000dps to my 600dps..oh thats right you test everything with a warrior..let rangers snipe from ledges and up high,I know why enemies go invul and i dont care,Rangers are still glass cannons and we should be able to pick things off from high up..u know like a real ranger! Now the ranger feels slow and while im kiting till im dizzy im doing less dps..yay nerfs! feels like Diablo 3..

The fact that Jon Peters posted that he’s going to have to check this on live gives the indication that it’s unintended. I’d hold off getting knickers in a twist until he posts back again.

I won’t go out with my ranger without a muddy terrain.
Shooting from a terrain that the monster can’t approach is exploit. That’s why you need to kite if you can’t take the hit.
And this simply is not related to the patch today.

Please leave ranger alone he was fun yesterday!! instead fix the invulnerable bug !!! Im not going to step down from my safe rock to TANK a kittening enemy pack that does 1000dps to my 600dps..oh thats right you test everything with a warrior..let rangers snipe from ledges and up high,I know why enemies go invul and i dont care,Rangers are still glass cannons and we should be able to pick things off from high up..u know like a real ranger! Now the ranger feels slow and while im kiting till im dizzy im doing less dps..yay nerfs! feels like Diablo 3..

That’s done so you dont freaking ruin this game by standing in a rock and killing enemies, oh my god. This is the worst post I’ve read in the whole forum.

Some intern at ANet doesn’t know what a millisecond is. Maybe it’s the same guy that wrote all the horrible tooltips littering the game. It’s like nobody there has heard of spellcheck.

kabaal.1832:

The fact that Jon Peters posted that he’s going to have to check this on live gives the indication that it’s unintended. I’d hold off getting knickers in a twist until he posts back again.

It is sad that “this issue will be addressed in the next patch” which means the next week.
And we still don’t know what the heck that Anet is nerfing shortbow at first. They keep hiding their intention to the players. If they fixed that problem then they should explain to us why they make that decision.

nelopp.6140:

kabaal.1832:

The fact that Jon Peters posted that he’s going to have to check this on live gives the indication that it’s unintended. I’d hold off getting knickers in a twist until he posts back again.

It is sad that “this issue will be addressed in the next patch” which means the next week.
And we still don’t know what the heck that Anet is nerfing shortbow at first. They keep hiding their intention to the players. If they fixed that problem then they should explain to us why they make that decision.

I agree that it is a shame but mistakes happen. If it turns out to be intended then i don’t know what to say, shortbow speed was it’s saving grace in the condition removal heavy game as is. It was ideal for pressuring Guardians into wasting their removals for example.

Dogsmack.4910 Sir you won an internet.

A big concern, are we going to get a patch live soon or we need to wait till next patch?

What should of happened: “Fixed an animation error with the short bow which made us lower the attack speed by .04 seconds, increased damage to compensate for lower attack speed AND less bleed stacks.”

What did happen: “Fixed an animation error and broke QZ at the same time effectively nerfing the short bow to uselessness to fix an animation error that no one knew about.”

If Warrior rifles are better then our short bow and they get insane melee abilities, what’s the point of rangers…oh yea, pets that die in 3 hits.

Ok seriously though, i look forward to a fix i’m sure Anet is on it.

Superior sigil of rage quickness seems to hits faster than QZ quickness or pet swap quickness. for the shortbow?

Superior sigil of rage quickness fires faster than QZ quickness or pet swap quickness. Or at least that’s how it appears when rage procs.

Any update on this? I have not seen the Dev’s get back with answers.

Ignoring the possible bug with QZ speed, this is still a really a crazy reduction to the shortbow. Although 40ms doesn’t seem like much, for a weapon that fires somewhere around (guessing) 2+ shots per second (I’ve read 2/sec as well, but I do not know exactly) this is a 10% nerf.

However, it get’s more drastic when you consider the main function of the shortbow. The shortbow is all about bleeds and conditions. Yes the auto-attack will bleed on hit, but unlike Warriors and Engineers, we have to be flanking the target.

Where this nerf hits hard is on the shortbow’s main function – behind with bleeds. Not only is our direct damage down 10% or so, but now we stack 10% less bleeding. For behind damage (the MAIN point of the shortbow) it’s actually a 20% (or more?) damage reduction!